Author Topic: Taking on the 5G nutjobs  (Read 42633 times)

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Offline BU508A

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #100 on: November 19, 2020, 08:48:20 am »
Well i got a really stupid reply from that shit box hosted hosting the web site mentioned earlier. Basically they’re a “free speech ISP” and won’t even review it  :palm:

Let’s see how their upstream behave who have a scary strict AUP.

Looks to me like a lame excuse for not taking action because it will
- cost money
- cost time
- probably causing trouble
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 

Online tszaboo

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #101 on: November 19, 2020, 09:32:11 am »
Well i got a really stupid reply from that shit box hosted hosting the web site mentioned earlier. Basically they’re a “free speech ISP” and won’t even review it  :palm:

Let’s see how their upstream behave who have a scary strict AUP.

Free speech comes with a hefty price for society and we're beginning to see it collected, it's going to get a lot worse before we clean out the cesspit.
The Freedom of Speech laws were written in a time, when there was a huge costs involved in publishing newspapers, and  reaching massive amount of people. Now anyone with a 50 EUR mobile phone can be present online, and they can spread lies, misinformation and cause panic. And they can reach billions of people.
Any nefarious country can use it to spread misinformation, appear as your own. Where does it say that the freedom of speech applies to foreigners? Since when do you apply your law to people that 1. are not the citizens of your country, 2. never ever stepped into your country 3. are doing things that are unlawful in their country (I'm not talking about 5G guy, 5G seems to be mainly a UK problem).
Since the governments are doing nothing to solve these problems, corporations started handling it. Twitter now marks Trump's messages that they are fake news. Probably he will get banned from social media, the day his presidency is over.
So yes, there is freedom of speech, and it is being overwritten by corporate bylaws. We are in a reality, where Facebook and Google decides what's true and what's not.
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #102 on: November 19, 2020, 09:34:35 am »
Well i got a really stupid reply from that shit box hosted hosting the web site mentioned earlier. Basically they’re a “free speech ISP” and won’t even review it  :palm:

Let’s see how their upstream behave who have a scary strict AUP.

Looks to me like a lame excuse for not taking action because it will
- cost money
- cost time
- probably causing trouble

Well can live in hope that one day karma will strike them by way not being able to make a very important phone call because some clown burnt down their 5G tower.
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Offline bd139Topic starter

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #103 on: November 19, 2020, 10:19:31 am »
Well i got a really stupid reply from that shit box hosted hosting the web site mentioned earlier. Basically they’re a “free speech ISP” and won’t even review it  :palm:

Let’s see how their upstream behave who have a scary strict AUP.

Free speech comes with a hefty price for society and we're beginning to see it collected, it's going to get a lot worse before we clean out the cesspit.
The Freedom of Speech laws were written in a time, when there was a huge costs involved in publishing newspapers, and  reaching massive amount of people. Now anyone with a 50 EUR mobile phone can be present online, and they can spread lies, misinformation and cause panic. And they can reach billions of people.
Any nefarious country can use it to spread misinformation, appear as your own. Where does it say that the freedom of speech applies to foreigners? Since when do you apply your law to people that 1. are not the citizens of your country, 2. never ever stepped into your country 3. are doing things that are unlawful in their country (I'm not talking about 5G guy, 5G seems to be mainly a UK problem).
Since the governments are doing nothing to solve these problems, corporations started handling it. Twitter now marks Trump's messages that they are fake news. Probably he will get banned from social media, the day his presidency is over.
So yes, there is freedom of speech, and it is being overwritten by corporate bylaws. We are in a reality, where Facebook and Google decides what's true and what's not.

That's exactly the problem.

Attention is a valuable commodity and absolute shitlord bastards can buy it easily.
 

Offline bd139Topic starter

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #104 on: November 19, 2020, 10:27:01 am »
Well can live in hope that one day karma will strike them by way not being able to make a very important phone call because some clown burnt down their 5G tower.

It's even worse than that because the ESN is actually run by EE over 4G networks. So they are literally burning our emergency services communication networks at the same time. So basically they're burning critical infrastructure for our own safety.

 
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Offline bd139Topic starter

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #105 on: November 19, 2020, 12:29:32 pm »
Ok after having a long discussion this morning with a former colleague, we're looking at setting up a web tool which tracks how long it takes YT and Facebook to remove content after reported. Effectively we shame the providers into handling this quickly and efficiently.

It'll have news down one side where damage is done and metrics with content subscribers, views, subject matter etc on the other side and time it took to take it down. Hopefully statistics will show some correlation between the two.

This is slightly abhorrent from my perspective as a form of censorship so I'm on the fence on whether I want to do it or not.

More info TBD.

Edit: there will be very strict limitations on where this is used i.e only for removing stuff which is objectively harmful to people through action caused like this nonsense. Lizard Jesus from space can stay.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 12:37:09 pm by bd139 »
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #106 on: November 19, 2020, 12:48:11 pm »
Ok after having a long discussion this morning with a former colleague, we're looking at setting up a web tool which tracks how long it takes YT and Facebook to remove content after reported. Effectively we shame the providers into handling this quickly and efficiently.

It'll have news down one side where damage is done and metrics with content subscribers, views, subject matter etc on the other side and time it took to take it down. Hopefully statistics will show some correlation between the two.

This is slightly abhorrent from my perspective as a form of censorship so I'm on the fence on whether I want to do it or not.

More info TBD.

Edit: there will be very strict limitations on where this is used i.e only for removing stuff which is objectively harmful to people through action caused like this nonsense. Lizard Jesus from space can stay.

Great initiative.  This would be really helpful to journalists and (those few) politicians that are trying to right the ship.

The trick is to avoid becoming "evil" and cancel people that are colorful rather than dangerous.  It takes a wise person to see the difference sometimes.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 12:50:03 pm by SilverSolder »
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #107 on: November 19, 2020, 12:54:32 pm »
Well i got a really stupid reply from that shit box hosted hosting the web site mentioned earlier. Basically they’re a “free speech ISP” and won’t even review it  :palm:

Let’s see how their upstream behave who have a scary strict AUP.

Free speech comes with a hefty price for society and we're beginning to see it collected, it's going to get a lot worse before we clean out the cesspit.
The Freedom of Speech laws were written in a time, when there was a huge costs involved in publishing newspapers, and  reaching massive amount of people. Now anyone with a 50 EUR mobile phone can be present online, and they can spread lies, misinformation and cause panic. And they can reach billions of people.
Any nefarious country can use it to spread misinformation, appear as your own. Where does it say that the freedom of speech applies to foreigners? Since when do you apply your law to people that 1. are not the citizens of your country, 2. never ever stepped into your country 3. are doing things that are unlawful in their country (I'm not talking about 5G guy, 5G seems to be mainly a UK problem).
Since the governments are doing nothing to solve these problems, corporations started handling it. Twitter now marks Trump's messages that they are fake news. Probably he will get banned from social media, the day his presidency is over.
So yes, there is freedom of speech, and it is being overwritten by corporate bylaws. We are in a reality, where Facebook and Google decides what's true and what's not.

This is so true, and a most unfortunate development.   Corporations are not really set up to run a fair and balanced judicial system - nor should they be.   These matters should be a matter of public policy and law, enforced by accountable agencies, and adjudicated in court if there is a dispute.  It seems to me that the EU is the furthest ahead with this - and, at the risk of provoking some people here, China.

 
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Offline bd139Topic starter

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #108 on: November 19, 2020, 01:02:13 pm »
Great initiative.  This would be really helpful to journalists and (those few) politicians that are trying to right the ship.

The trick is to avoid becoming "evil" and cancel people that are colorful rather than dangerous.  It takes a wise person to see the difference sometimes.

Yeah the more we read into it and discuss we see how difficult it is to approach it now. Apparently by forming this association it may come under libel laws in the UK which means we'll probably get sued almost immediately by someone higher profile if we piss them off or associate them with insanity. Just the costs associated with defending yourself put the idea to bed. I imagine journos are having the same problem hence why this stuff isn't debunked as quickly as it should be. Argh!!!

Personal justice for those with enough money is a big problem.
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #109 on: November 19, 2020, 02:08:50 pm »
Ok after having a long discussion this morning with a former colleague, we're looking at setting up a web tool which tracks how long it takes YT and Facebook to remove content after reported. Effectively we shame the providers into handling this quickly and efficiently.

It'll have news down one side where damage is done and metrics with content subscribers, views, subject matter etc on the other side and time it took to take it down. Hopefully statistics will show some correlation between the two.

This is slightly abhorrent from my perspective as a form of censorship so I'm on the fence on whether I want to do it or not.

More info TBD.

Edit: there will be very strict limitations on where this is used i.e only for removing stuff which is objectively harmful to people through action caused like this nonsense. Lizard Jesus from space can stay.
Sounds like a great plan, but it needs to be used only against people of the same mould as Mark Steele  :-+
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline DrG

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #110 on: November 19, 2020, 02:28:53 pm »
Just look at the mess Donald trump is making of the election, many lawsuits based on no evidence thrown out, a couple maybe? after that he should be countersued for misuse of the system.

Thanks for the best laugh of the day so far - seriously. I'm not a lawyer either, but  when I read that, I thought of the image of him being declared a "vexatious litigant" is amusing. Of course that is not likely. There is the remedy of "abuse of power", but that is also unlikely with just a couple of months to go. Same with some kind of "malicious prosecution".

What does seem to be happening now, however, and I am not sure how it relates to the OT is that lawyers are dropping out. Apparently, the negative PR incurred by being part of what many call, frivolous, is a liability - especially if a judge uses some particularly harsh words in a ruling..

What happens or doesn't happen on and after Jan 20 at 12:05 is a different story.
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Offline bd139Topic starter

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #111 on: November 19, 2020, 03:47:49 pm »
Well it shows that even bastard lawyers have some standards  :-DD
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #112 on: November 19, 2020, 04:18:31 pm »
Quote
The Freedom of Speech laws

It would be interesting if you could turn up those laws. I think, if you managed to find them, they don't say what you think they might.

Quote
We are in a reality, where Facebook and Google decides what's true and what's not.

Kind of. 'Freedom of speech' is aimed at not getting you locked up for saying stuff (with some exceptions). There is nothing that says anyone else has to repeat it, and that includes the likes of Google and Facebook. If they take a dislike to what you're saying, that's their choice. The exception would be for 'common carrier' services, such as your phone provider, who don't decide anything about what they carry.

Stand at Hyde Park Corner spouting weirdo stuff and you're fine (with some exceptions). You ain't going to be nicked, charged and imprisoned. That's freedom of speech. Expecting the BBC to report what you're saying isn't.

Amnesty's take
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #113 on: November 19, 2020, 04:39:57 pm »
[...] the likes of Google and Facebook. If they take a dislike to what you're saying, that's their choice. [...]

There could be some problems with this model - e.g. suddenly you find words removed from a telephone conversation because the phone company doesn't like what you are saying!  :D
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #114 on: November 19, 2020, 05:34:13 pm »
No, that's what common carrier status protects against - once they start editing or processing the data then they are publishers and are responsible for everything they carry publish. In theory - somehow the likes of Twitter/Facebook/et al have managed to gain more-or-less no responsibility whilst also being able to edit. And the net neutrality thing in the US is making a mockery of it too.
 
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #115 on: November 19, 2020, 10:45:21 pm »
Since these [Mark | Anthony] Steele followers do believe in any kind of rubbish coming from him,
why don't tell them the truth about the GPS chips in their tires?  :-DD




Translation:
Did you know that every tire is factory-fitted with a GPS chip so that it can be located in 5G networks? If you don't want this, you'll have to cut off the little antenna sticking out of the rim.
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Offline bd139Topic starter

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #116 on: November 19, 2020, 10:47:01 pm »
Hahahahaha  :-DD :-DD
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #117 on: November 19, 2020, 11:00:16 pm »

You know, this might actually be a viable approach!   Spam the BS spreaders with even worse BS, that is only slightly more insane...   It would force the followers to start paying attention to what is truly insane from just insane, which would be a good start for them!   :D
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #118 on: November 20, 2020, 01:57:25 am »
IMO the only way to win is to use psychology. Any attempt to silence the purveyors of BS will be seen as an attempt to silence them by the powerful people who are afraid of the truth getting out. It may even be a viable approach to engineer some other kind of conspiracy theory to draw their attention away, most of the people who believe this stuff believe all sorts of conspiracy theories, it's like their ability to discern reality from fiction is wired backwards. It's almost always the same kind of people who believe in conspiracy theories, and the only thing that ever makes them shut up is when they think they've discovered an even more juicy conspiracy.
 
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Offline DrG

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #119 on: November 20, 2020, 02:27:06 am »
Incontrovertible proof of 5G effects....on hair dye.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZuUHVrtTlc


(no comment on any pre-existing conditions)

Edit: the link is dead. I'm not going to replace it because I think that everyone who wants to see it has already seen it (many of this event were all over the mainstream media). For posterity it was a video of the POTUS' lawyer at a news conference.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 05:08:46 pm by DrG »
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #120 on: November 20, 2020, 03:54:50 am »
IMO the only way to win is to use psychology. Any attempt to silence the purveyors of BS will be seen as an attempt to silence them by the powerful people who are afraid of the truth getting out. It may even be a viable approach to engineer some other kind of conspiracy theory to draw their attention away, most of the people who believe this stuff believe all sorts of conspiracy theories, it's like their ability to discern reality from fiction is wired backwards. It's almost always the same kind of people who believe in conspiracy theories, and the only thing that ever makes them shut up is when they think they've discovered an even more juicy conspiracy.

Maybe all the conspiracy theories we are seeing are already engineered and carefully promulgated...   it's just that we haven't been let in on it, for obvious reasons!

See how easy it is?  :D
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #121 on: November 20, 2020, 08:20:08 am »
IMO the only way to win is to use psychology. Any attempt to silence the purveyors of BS will be seen as an attempt to silence them by the powerful people who are afraid of the truth getting out. It may even be a viable approach to engineer some other kind of conspiracy theory to draw their attention away, most of the people who believe this stuff believe all sorts of conspiracy theories, it's like their ability to discern reality from fiction is wired backwards. It's almost always the same kind of people who believe in conspiracy theories, and the only thing that ever makes them shut up is when they think they've discovered an even more juicy conspiracy.

Maybe all the conspiracy theories we are seeing are already engineered and carefully promulgated...   it's just that we haven't been let in on it, for obvious reasons!

See how easy it is?  :D

Not sure they're engineered, but there's good evidence that some conspiracy theories are being manipulated and used to promote division, there's a whole cottage industry tracking these down and working out who's pushing them.
 
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Offline Non-Abelian

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #122 on: November 26, 2020, 08:04:33 pm »
Well, a lot of fault also lies with people who view this stuff, do not have the expertise to even do simple algebra, but for whatever reason, feel qualified to make a judgment and go on to become rabid cheerleaders for things they have no ability to comprehend.  This sort of stuff will not change unless the educational system decides critical and analytical thinking is acually important.  My ex gf, (with an MS, yet) for example could not understand how I could both predict that trump would win the 2016 election yet not want him to be. That sort of inability to differentiate between an analysis based on evidence and a wish for whatever one wants reality to be is a real problem and is why there are so many nut jobs that will adhere to crazy conspiracy theories in the face of direct evidence to the contrary. Even worse is when there could be some scientific dispute that is rather subtle that can be used to exploit a lack of critical thinking.
That's not right - It's not even wrong - W. Pauli
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #123 on: November 26, 2020, 09:04:39 pm »
My ex gf, (with an MS, yet) for example could not understand how I could both predict that trump would win the 2016 election yet not want him to be. That sort of inability to differentiate between an analysis based on evidence and a wish for whatever one wants reality to be

I have a really hard time even understanding how that can be a difficulty to some people. I'd really like to win the lottery but I predict that I won't. Winning is statistically unlikely, especially since I don't think I've ever bought a lotto ticket, but that in no way implies that I wouldn't like to win. It seems completely obvious that one's wishes and reality are two independent things.
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: Taking on the 5G nutjobs
« Reply #124 on: December 04, 2020, 03:54:52 pm »
5G Stop with Quantum Technology and titanium balls. :-//

https://app.9010.com/9010-zero-point-energy-5g
.  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 


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