Author Topic: The discerning audiophile's choice of proper speaker wire. ($35,000 for 2.5m)  (Read 15792 times)

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Offline MrMobodies

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Wait a mo though, I reckon the way you fasten the cables to the wall has a bearing on sound quality too. My latest line of enriched uranium clips with antimagnetic titanium nails will cost you only $100,000 a box of three. When fitting, be especially careful to read the instructions on how to identify the vibrational nodes of the cable, and only clip to  the wall at those points.
To deliver a sound that literally “blasts you away”, I presume that you are employing weapons grade U235 refined from former USSR stockpiles?

blasts you away.
To a point where the sound doesn't sound right according to one Audigoon... no wait it has to be burned in first by which time the other members think he's gone deaf.
 

Offline BrianHG

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I just discovered a way to multiply the value of these speaker cable's price by 10 fold, tie them to this cable burn-in-device for 1 year straight:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/i-wonder-what-effectively-does-this-audiophool-_cable-burn-in-device_/msg1328723/#msg1328723
__________
BrianHG.
 

Offline MrMobodies

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I could burn them in in no time just use a pat tester or do it manually.

It'll be like smoke and mirrors but no magic inside.
 

Offline Whales

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Owner of three of those fuses here.  Don't believe what other people say, the yellow stuff appears to be non-polar.  Each fuse gets re-sealed to ensure the volatiles don't get out (it stinks -- don't open them, it ruins them!).

They definitely work.  I spent a bit more money on replacement leads for my unit (tip: gold plating is worth it), but I was lucky enough to get these fuses on special.  Price often gets discounted shortly after March, that's the quiet time of the year for them.

Since installing them: overshoot has significantly reduced and performance at DC is markedly better than before.  Current readings show performance is now much more heavily affected by cable AWG, ie they are giving me notable drop in internal ESR.  Can't recommend these fuses enough.

I only wish Extech was smart enough to have installed these things in the factory.  Would have been happy to pay the premium  :-+
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 11:21:10 am by Whales »
 
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Offline GregDunn

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When CDs came out, I couldn't unload my vinyl fast enough.  From discussions with some other tech types on some of the audio forums, it seems that many of the early transfers were done without added compression and those CDs still are considered among the best representations of the original master tapes.  Only situations where they uncovered original multitracks or better copies of the masters have provided a better sounding source for distribution - assuming they resisted the temptation to squash or overdrive the signal during the process.

The problems vinyl has are legion: cutting distortion + tracing distortion often exceeding 3-5%; frequency response which steadily deteriorates as linear speed of the groove decreases toward the center; fragile medium with no error correction; linear dependence on absolute and relative accuracy of the disc's motion.  I frequently have people tell me that they prefer the sound of an LP to a (properly mastered) CD; my response is "I can't stop you from preferring the multiple defects in the media, but don't tell me it's more accurate."
 
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Online bd139

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I did similar. And when I got my first iPod the CDs got ripped and sold.

Now it’s apple’s problem for £14.99/month which is far less than my CD bill was!
 

Offline BradC

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(properly mastered) CD

I'll take one any day of the week over vinyl but they are not as easy to find as you might expect.
 
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Offline David Hess

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When CDs came out, I couldn't unload my vinyl fast enough.  From discussions with some other tech types on some of the audio forums, it seems that many of the early transfers were done without added compression and those CDs still are considered among the best representations of the original master tapes.  Only situations where they uncovered original multitracks or better copies of the masters have provided a better sounding source for distribution - assuming they resisted the temptation to squash or overdrive the signal during the process.

I have heard that early CDs often incorrectly had the RIAA equalization for vinyl records applied.
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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I have heard that early CDs often incorrectly had the RIAA equalization for vinyl records applied.

That would sound dreadful, and would I think be noticed and corrected quickly. A more common problem was that early CD players often used poor analog filtering techniques on the D-to-A converter output. That is why sound quality sometimes was worse than from a good vinyl turntable. Of course in those days all recordings started life as analog tape, and another problem was that CDs of existing music had to be mastered from old magnetic tape that had been in storage for years, whereas the pressings mastered when the tape was new didn't deteriorate significantly in storage.
 

Offline cdev

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Wonder if there have ever been any invitational events where audiophools were invited to compare these products in a blinded situation where they could not visually identify which ones were (or were not) being used.

In other words, a test to see if they could tell the difference between different kinds of speaker wire. I really doubt if they could, once you got above the really thin stuff.

Granted, I think that all other things being equal, thicker wire is better. The minimum size wire I use on my "real" stereo system is slightly bigger than most zip cord. Its maybe 14 or 16 gauge super thick zip cord. (Its also what I use on my bench supplies). And I also have some "monster cable" which I got for free.

Its basically just thick flexible copper wire. Its likely around 12 or 14 gauge. (Its hidden behind furniture so its a PITA to fish out)

I use these thick cables because my receiver can deliver a solid 100 watts per channel into even as little as a 4 ohm load.

I would be willing to bet money that even the most "discerning"  "audiophiles" could not tell the difference between something like it and any more expensive cable, no matter how thick or expensive, in a double blind comparison.

We all know this. They likely know it too. In private.

Dave - you could actually make this into an event. It would promote your brand as well as common sense, substance and sanity in audio technology.

Different cables would be compared, they could even bring their own $35,000 cables.

the only condition would be inclusion of some generic thick copper wire.

We would see if any differences could be discerned by them, the self-styled experts.

Or anybody else.

In order to give them the maximum benefit of the doubt, the speakers could also be any speakers of their choice.

They could bring their own speakers.

But, the wires would be hidden. It could be proctored by an impartial jury of engineers.

And the event should be videotaped.  This event would likely become a huge viral video.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 05:52:50 pm by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Mind you, I was just looking at a roll of 'speaker cable' on offer in a DIY store, and I reckon spider silk would have a greater cross section. This is the opposite end of the problem; people who buy this stuff and put maybe 20 or 50 ohms in series with each speaker, then try the the audiophool stuff at $100 a metre, and report that it's a fantastic product.  Because in their case it DOES improve the sound quality. A lot.

Of course they could have achieved the same quality improvement with any decent piece of mains flex, but they don't know that.  :palm:
 
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Offline MrMobodies

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They would have to buy something like this for their mains cable:

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/nordost-valhalla-2-reference-power-cord-iec-uk-3-pin-plug


Edit:
Made in USA
That CE symbol on the IEC plug looks close enough to be a China Export.
A dead give away really.
Another picture that speaks for itself.

£4000 to £11000.

Specifications:
Nordost Valhalla 2, Reference Power Cord IEC - UK 3 Pin Plug
Length: Custom Length
Insulation: High purity class 1.1 extruded FEP
Construction: Dual Mono-Filament
Conductors: 7 x 16 AWG Solid-core
Material: 85 microns of silver extruded over 99.999999% OFC
Connectors: Gold-plated IEC Wall plugs: UK
Power Rating: 20 Amp
DC Resistance: 1.3 Ohms per 1000ft
Capacitance: 8.0pF/ft
Propagation delay: 91% Speed of light


Might as well just have it made out of gold somewhere
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 08:16:02 pm by MrMobodies »
 

Offline Synthtech

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I want to buy those beeswax filled fuses for my multimeter. That way when I am not paying attention and set the meter to the wrong range and the fuse ruptures and blasts proprietary filling through the meter I won’t mind as everything will smell like honey.

And I get the bonus of my meter current range accuracy improving due to the better transfer characteristics of the fuse.
 

Offline Domagoj T

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Mind you, I was just looking at a roll of 'speaker cable' on offer in a DIY store, and I reckon spider silk would have a greater cross section.
Recently, I bough 100 m of two core 0,75 mm^2 cable.

A problem with it came to my attention after I cut off a decent chunk for a friend and a few days later he complained that the cable is crap and that he can't solder it. I took a piece, tried tinning it and it went well, no issues, so I talked to the guy and asked him what was the problem. After all, he's 72 and has been tinkering with electronics for a good part of his life, so apparently there was a problem. He said that the cable takes solder once, but never again. I asked him to repeat that.
So, I take the cable again, tin it (no problem) and try to solder two ends together, but nope, it doesn't work. The cable repels the solder and I was unable to make the joint. I've never seen such behavior before.
I tried the flame test, and sure enough, it's copper clad aluminium.

I bought it in an electronics store. I asked for 0,75 mm^2 speaker cable, so yeah, if somebody bought that crap expecting copper, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get the result one would expect. Or if they are used to that, a proper quality copper cable could make a difference.
 

Offline MrMobodies

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I brought some ten way server cabinets sockets and they came with 400- 700v 49 amp Titanex H07RN-F 3G4 cables on 4 pin BS4343 plug. The adaptors are big and won't look good where it is going and in space wise so I ordered some smaller 1.5mm H07RN-F 13A cables to wire to a plug.

When they arrive I will test the conductors under a flame just in case.

Maybe I can re brand the Titanex cables and sell it to the audiphools as I believe that is what they're doing.

I was looking back at something and just only noticed this post that I missed:
I found some discussions about it at Audigoon:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/synergestic-black-fuse-vs-audio-magic-beeswax

Wow. Just wow. I think I lost 40 IQ points just reading that thread (and I don't really have that many to spare in the first place!).

I am sorry.

Maybe I should have put a spoiler alert in.
 

Offline cdev

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It is unusual to find very thick, high current cables that are also flexible in the hand and connector-friendly. I would imagine that especially for somebody who does a lot of speaker demoing and switching having the right kind of cable and also the right (quick attach/quick release) ends attached to them is also important. 

Very thick but flexible wire,

Banana plugs or gold plated pins suitable for insertion in amplifiers and speakers, with clear and unmistakable color coding, thats a big enough improvement over plain wire that its worth putting some effort into making up a pair of speaker cables that do it.

 I would say that a nice pair of top quality speaker cables wired with nice plugs might be worth $20 to me. Significantly more than the parts cost unmodified.

So there we have a logical price.

How did we go from $20 to $35,000? Thats not just ridiculous, its totally over the top.

That much money could do so many much better things.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 11:14:31 pm by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Online bd139

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Honestly in this day and age we should have the amplifiers in the speakers (active speakers) and differential (at least) or digital signalling. Then you can run it over wet string.
 

Offline cdev

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Active speakers can sound really good. Because they can incorporate a feedback loop that corrects a lot of distortion.

Plus they are self contained.

Mackie makes nice freestanding active speakers. I think one plugs balanced XLR cables into them. They can run off a generator as well.

Honestly in this day and age we should have the amplifiers in the speakers (active speakers) and differential (at least) or digital signalling. Then you can run it over wet string.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Online retrolefty

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Where's the gold?

Quote

  Oh come on, anyone knows that using real gold would impact their profit margin negatively.
 
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Offline BradC

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Active speakers can sound really good. Because they can incorporate a feedback loop that corrects a lot of distortion.

I still have a pair of these stored somewhere. They did sound very good for their size. For whatever reason (cost probably), the concept never really caught on.

https://hifipig.com/philips-motional-feedback-speakers/
 

Offline cdev

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They still are very popular with musicians for studios. Look under "Studio Monitor".
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline CJay

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Typically an output network is required to decouple the low output impedance of the amplifier from the load at high frequencies to prevent destructive oscillation.

Zobel network I think?

A Zobel network is more for handling the reactance of the loudspeaker itself so it is part of the frequency compensation.  High frequency decoupling is provided by a low-Q inductor after the Zobel network.

Indeed, without the decoupling inductance, high frequency oscillation in the output stage can destroy the Zobel network.
Ah OK. I've seen them described in various ways but they've not been on my radar enough to thoroughly understand.

I've a pile of old audio/linear MOSFETs here which are earmarked for an audio amp 'when I get time' so I'll need some more reading to do I suppose.
M0UAW
 

Online bd139

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Also in an average transceiver, the zobel network can be used to absorb all the RF on the speaker wires to stop it getting back into the audio PA. Basically it presents a low impedance to RF. This can make some wild and unexpected noises, particularly with cheap crappy low stability LM386's etc.
 

Offline CJay

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Also in an average transceiver, the zobel network can be used to absorb all the RF on the speaker wires to stop it getting back into the audio PA. Basically it presents a low impedance to RF. This can make some wild and unexpected noises, particularly with cheap crappy low stability LM386's etc.

I almost hate those chips, I fail to understand why they are still so popular when there are so  many better alternatives.
M0UAW
 

Online bd139

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Monkey see. Monkey copy.
 


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