Author Topic: Snake oil  (Read 490771 times)

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Offline McBryce

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1100 on: January 12, 2019, 01:46:26 pm »
But they have an Avocado in their logo, so they must be for real!

McBryce.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1101 on: January 13, 2019, 06:04:59 pm »
But they have an Avocado in their logo, so they must be for real!

McBryce.

That's his brain. ;D
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Offline mc172

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1102 on: January 15, 2019, 01:32:45 pm »
It's something to do with that absolute melt David Wolfe, what do you expect? He's absolutely full of the usual crap, vaccines, flat earth, etc. :bullshit:
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1103 on: January 23, 2019, 07:09:34 pm »
I found this which is something petty:

Quote
Information for Helpdesk agents
When contacting the BT Broadband helpdesk, the agent might ask you for details about your BT Home Hub. The page contains all of the information they are likely to request.



In stats instead of displaying the current channel they put "Smart Wireless" in there.

"Smart" everything.

Here's a joke:
Helpdesk wants to hear that it is "smart" and will sort itself out.

Wifi problems:
Customer: My 2.4GHz and 5Ghz wireless channels are both "smart" or they are "smart wireless"
Helpdesk: Yes, I know they are "smart wireless".

« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 07:15:25 pm by MrMobodies »
 

Offline Deodand2014

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1104 on: February 01, 2019, 11:02:00 pm »
Another piece of electronic medical Snake Oil.

Quote
Health Wellness Industries Inc. is the exclusive Canadian Distributor of Seqex. Seqex is a revolutionary health & wellness technology in the form of a pulsed electromagnetic field therapy device that produces Ion Cyclotron Resonance phenomena. This phenomena promotes the reduction of inflammation; induces a muscle relaxant effect and contributes to improving microcirculation.

The Seqex is unique as it has the ability of producing up to thirty wave forms and can use up to 2.4 million frequency combinations. This ICR phenomenon allows the cells to become more permeable allowing toxins to be released and nutrients to be absorbed. It is the only ICR full body applicator in the world.

Seqex devices support the work of healthcare professionals during traditional courses of patient therapy and are used as part of an integrative approach in conjunction with modern day medicine. There are three models currently available with nine sequences on each program. There is the option to customize a program specifically for a Client depending on the model of Seqex. The Seqex HC, FAM and MED have all been approved by Health Canada as Class 2 medical devices.

And here is a video of someone explaining how it 'works':

 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1105 on: February 12, 2019, 02:35:31 am »
I just came across a link with BT Selling dodgy CAT6 cables.

https://shop.bt.com/products/cables-direct-red-10m-cat-6-utp-lszh-economy-cca-eared-booted-patch-lead-99lht6-610r-CHSZ.html

https://www.businessdirect.bt.com/products/cables-direct-green-5m-cat-6-utp-lszh-economy-cca-eared-booted-patch-lead-99lht6-605g-CHSQ.html

To add to insult:
Quote
Description
Category 6 cable, commonly referred to as Cat-6, is a cable standard for Gigabit Ethernet and other network protocols that are backward compatible with the Category 5/5e and Category 3 cable standards. Compared with Cat-5 and Cat-5e, Cat-6 features more stringent specifications for crosstalk and system noise. The cable standard provides performance of up to 250 MHz.


As an ISP they should know better.


Edit:

The problem is for those that don't know:
CCA Copper Cladded Aluminium

https://lynxdatacabling.co.uk/beware-cca-ccc-cables/
https://www.cirris.com/learning-center/general-testing/special-topics/292-counterfeit-cables
https://www.aci.org.uk/technical-articles-and-updates/key-issues-surround-cca-cat


I know when I read the BT adverts in the news paper and look at their small print some of it attimes cancels each other out.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 04:18:26 am by MrMobodies »
 

Online Buriedcode

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1106 on: February 12, 2019, 03:35:33 am »
Maybe I missed it but I don't see a problem.  Not a fan of BT with their claims of "most powerful WIFI signal" but those are standard cables.
 

Offline djos

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1107 on: February 12, 2019, 04:13:38 am »
The problem is for those that don't know:
CCA Copper Cladded Aluminium

https://lynxdatacabling.co.uk/beware-cca-ccc-cables/
https://www.cirris.com/learning-center/general-testing/special-topics/292-counterfeit-cables
https://www.aci.org.uk/technical-articles-and-updates/key-issues-surround-cca-cat


I know when I read the BT adverts in the news paper and look at their small print some of it attimes cancels each other out.

I'm not seeing the problem? CCA cables are cheaper than non CCA cables due to Cooper being more expensive.

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1108 on: February 12, 2019, 04:16:09 am »
Not a problem?

They break easily

Whether it is cheap or not has nothing to do with what I am trying to say.
They are cheaper but they have problems at least from my experience with them.

Copper being more expensive is not a good excuse or argument "for them" as they are shown to underperform especially with POE, break easily and degrade and cause trouble where copper wouldn't do that in terms of compliance.

I have had a terrible experience and I only discovered after finding out what CCA mean't.

It doesn't comply with the standards set out for those types of cables as it shouldn't have aluminium in them it should be all copper.

They break easily and corrode on the terminals.

I had my fair share of troubles and I got caught out once and had to rewire a whole office when I read up what CCA mean't on the box and it explained why I looked a like fool in front of everyone when the wires broke off and I had to rerun cables as even though they were terminated properly there were breakages.

I didn't get it from my usual supplier as they wanted it done very quickly and they spent over the same that I'd get them for and it was from a local shop. When we looked around for 305m reels after ripping that rubbish out many shops were selling the same thing with CCA marked on them from all sorts of unheard of manufacturers for prices higher than what I get the real "solid copper" ones for. I think one of them was called "Jay Lo cables".

I ordered the correct cable reel and rewired the office properly and it made terminating so much easier and quicker compared to that CCA stuff and I had no trouble. Now I look out and I am paranoid of it. It made me looked terrible (you think you are bad at your job as it is all mystery with intermittently working and next minute it doesn't when I was testing them) until I discovered after when we still had problems that it wasn't me it was the cable as in the name "CCA".

It is not like it is Ebay it is BT and I think they should know better that's all.

There was one time I ordered some old stock Excel Cat5e cables to tidy up a cabinet.
There were connectivity issues (ports doing up and down) and packet loss on the switch.
I flame tested one, it flopped and they all went back to the supplier.

That's what is wrong with them.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 04:31:43 am by MrMobodies »
 

Offline djos

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1109 on: February 12, 2019, 04:35:12 am »
Not a problem?

They break easily

Not being durable does not mean they fail to comply with the bandwidth specs of Cat6 - CCA cables arent snake oil, just rubbish.

Offline McBryce

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1110 on: February 12, 2019, 08:15:14 am »

It doesn't comply with the standards set out for those types of cables as it shouldn't have aluminium in them it should be all copper.


CAT6 is defined by the TIA/EIA-568 standards which does not specify what material the conductors need to be made of. You may not be a fan of Aluminium, but it most certainly does comply with the specifications.


McBryce.
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1111 on: February 12, 2019, 12:20:45 pm »
Not a problem?

They break easily

Not being durable does not mean they fail to comply with the bandwidth specs of Cat6 - CCA cables arent snake oil, just rubbish.

Nope not a fan not after what happened to me.

I see they're also call them Cat6 economy.
It is more like false economy.


It doesn't comply with the standards set out for those types of cables as it shouldn't have aluminium in them it should be all copper.


CAT6 is defined by the TIA/EIA-568 standards which does not specify what material the conductors need to be made of. You may not be a fan of Aluminium, but it most certainly does comply with the specifications.


McBryce.


I thought they were not permitted and not compliant from the articles I read about them like the one below or maybe I got it wrong and it was to do with the fire risk they posed at the time and I'd imagine especially when used for POE:

https://rj45s.com/Beware_of_CCA_Conductors.html
Quote
Cable Fire Test Video
CCCA conducted fire tests at Underwriters Laboratories (UL), comparing counterfeit communications cable to compliant cable.

WASHINGTON, DC (June 22, 2012) – The Communications Cable and Connectivity Association continues to encounter several sources in the US promoting Cat 5e and Cat 6 cables made with copper clad aluminum (CCA) conductors. CCA IS NOT PERMITTED for Category UTP cables and is not compliant to Telecommunications Industries Association (TIA) standards and National Electrical Code (NEC) requirements for fire safety.

I see they have solved that issue by using low smoke coating in the ones BT are selling.
I didn't think they worth the coating but maybe they have got that so cheaper now.


Quote
More worryingly, Cables containing CCA conductors masquerade as standards-compliant “Category 5” or “Category 5e” products - tempting users to specify them and installers to use them. However, they do not comply with any recognised cable standard in the North America, international or European arenas.

Standards compliant by bandwidth if you don't break them first.

Horrible horrible stuff to work with.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 01:48:29 pm by MrMobodies »
 

Online Buriedcode

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1112 on: February 12, 2019, 07:26:39 pm »
How is that snake oil?  I haven't seen any claims about "healing" or "quantum effects" or any other pseudo-science.  Don't confuse budget products with snake oil.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1113 on: February 12, 2019, 08:51:54 pm »
I agree, CCA (or CCS) wire is not "snake oil". 
If the sellers openly revealed what they were selling, then you could call it "budget products".
But they are encouraging the customer to assume it is copper.  And THAT practice is outright fraud.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 09:02:49 pm by Richard Crowley »
 

Offline ogden

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1114 on: February 12, 2019, 09:59:14 pm »
CAT6 is defined by the TIA/EIA-568 standards which does not specify what material the conductors need to be made of. You may not be a fan of Aluminium, but it most certainly does comply with the specifications.

Incorrect. ANSI/TIA-568-C.2 refers to ANSI/ICEA S-90-661-2006 which states “solid conductors shall consist of commercial pure, annealed, bare copper”.

Further reading (search copper): https://www.fia-online.co.uk/pdf/Whites/wp-IAN002-01.pdf

Anyway TIA/EIA-568 specify DC resistance 9.5 Ohms @ 100m which is enough to disqualify copper-clad aluminium (for Cat 5 and higher).

[edit] I agree that CCA TP cables are not snake oil, yet it is fraud to sell CCA TP cable marked as Cat 5 or higher.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 10:04:21 pm by ogden »
 

Offline djos

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1115 on: February 12, 2019, 10:03:53 pm »
CAT6 is defined by the TIA/EIA-568 standards which does not specify what material the conductors need to be made of. You may not be a fan of Aluminium, but it most certainly does comply with the specifications.

Incorrect. ANSI/TIA-568-C.2 refers to ANSI/ICEA S-90-661-2006 which states “solid conductors shall consist of commercial pure, annealed, bare copper”.

Further reading (search copper): https://www.fia-online.co.uk/pdf/Whites/wp-IAN002-01.pdf

Anyway TIA/EIA-568 specify DC resistance 9.5 Ohms @ 100m which is enough to disqualify copper-clad aluminium.

There's actually 2 types of conductors allowed, solid core and stranded.

EDIT: Interestingly, CCA cables dont meet australian standards either - they are still not snake oil tho, just rubbish.

https://neca.asn.au/sa/content/acma-warning-%E2%80%93-cca-cable
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 10:07:35 pm by djos »
 
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Offline ogden

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1116 on: February 12, 2019, 10:06:59 pm »
There's actually 2 types of conductors allowed, solid core and stranded.

Incorrect, kind of. Horizontal cable shall be solid core only. Refer to ANSI/TIA-568-C.2, 5.3 Horizontal cable mechanical performance. You may use stranded cable for patch cords indeed.

5.3 Horizontal cable mechanical performance

Horizontal cable shall consist of four balanced twisted-pairs of 22 AWG to 24 AWG thermoplastic
insulated solid conductors enclosed by a thermoplastic jacket. Horizontal cables shall comply with the
mechanical performance requirements, testing and test methods in ANSI/ICEA S-90-661-2006 for
category 3, ANSI/ICEA S-90-661-2006 for category 5e, ANSI/ICEA S-102-732-2009 for category 6, and
ANSI/ICEA S-102-732-2009 for category 6A.

In addition to the applicable requirements of ANSI/ICEA S-90-661-2006 and ANSI/ICEA S-102-732-2009,
the physical design of category 3, 5e, 6, and 6A horizontal cables shall meet the additional requirements
of this clause.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 10:16:04 pm by ogden »
 
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Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1117 on: February 13, 2019, 03:51:15 am »
I agree, CCA (or CCS) wire is not "snake oil". 
If the sellers openly revealed what they were selling, then you could call it "budget products".
But they are encouraging the customer to assume it is copper.  And THAT practice is outright fraud.


How is that snake oil?  I haven't seen any claims about "healing" or "quantum effects" or any other pseudo-science.  Don't confuse budget products with snake oil.


I thought of it as snake oil because of the claims of it meeting standards but then as you say they didn't specify that it had to be copper.

They don't always tell you what "CCA" stands for and especially my first encounter but oh well at least that was a clue as to why it went wrong.

I have found a picture of that Jaylo stuff and it says on the box:

On the box:
Quote
Jaylo Supplies LTD:
CAT6cca
Networking Cable
UTP Solid Conductors, 23 AWG (Solid what?)
CCA - FLUKE CHANNEL TEST
ACC TIA/EIA 586/B.2  UP TO 80 M
CE COMPLIED
1000' Pull Box

So if something doesn't meet standards it is not necessarily snake oil but just rubbish if it at least works to some extent.

CAT6 is defined by the TIA/EIA-568 standards which does not specify what material the conductors need to be made of. You may not be a fan of Aluminium, but it most certainly does comply with the specifications.

Incorrect. ANSI/TIA-568-C.2 refers to ANSI/ICEA S-90-661-2006 which states “solid conductors shall consist of commercial pure, annealed, bare copper”.

Further reading (search copper): https://www.fia-online.co.uk/pdf/Whites/wp-IAN002-01.pdf

Anyway TIA/EIA-568 specify DC resistance 9.5 Ohms @ 100m which is enough to disqualify copper-clad aluminium (for Cat 5 and higher).

[edit] I agree that CCA TP cables are not snake oil, yet it is fraud to sell CCA TP cable marked as Cat 5 or higher.

If I knew it was crap I would have avoided it.. and refused to work with it as I didn't buy it but I didn't know at the time. If it was selling at a very low price I wouldn't have paid any attention but they were everywhere in the shops locally where I was working and highly over priced than the real stuff. Some were about £120 to £140 and shocked to find they had CCA written on it (but nothing about aluminium or what it stands for) when we looked around after ripping it out but not even the shop keepers selling the stuff knew what CCA mean't. From where I normally got the real copper cable reels they just went up from £70 to nearly £80 and that was in 2012 but took a couple of days to delivery. I have brought cable reels in the past from all sorts of places, I don't remember CCA written on them and I had no trouble to investigate.

Now I am very careful and test them when they arrive and I always have a box waiting just incase someone wants work done on the quick so that doesn't happen again other than that I refuse to use any any cable given to me without testing it first.

Sorry about that for classing it as snake oil.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 04:25:58 am by MrMobodies »
 

Offline Deodand2014

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1118 on: February 13, 2019, 06:10:23 am »
Spotted on pages 10 - 18 of the May 1996 issue of 73 magazine is a 'bioelectrification' device designed to cure all ills including HIV that you can build yourself. I remember similar devices being sold in Australia around the same time, if I'm remembering it correctly Silicon Chip tore down one $200 device and found $5 worth of components and a 555 based circuit that made an LED flash.

https://archive.org/details/73-magazine-1996-05
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1119 on: February 13, 2019, 08:20:44 am »
My wife’s uncle sold “mysterious health devices” like that in the 1990s until he was prosecuted. He died of stomach cancer last year. Someone said on Facebook that it was karma for all the harm he caused by selling lies and caused a massive flame war and now half her family aren’t talking to each other. Which is great because 50% less family events for me to get dragged to  :-DD
 
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Offline CJay

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1120 on: February 13, 2019, 09:54:39 am »
I had a surreal conversation with the decorator at my sister's place, he had ordered a Rife machine from the US for a couple of thousand $ which he was convinced would cure all disease but was being suppressed by 'big pharma' (I was tempted to ask why Big Pharma wasn't looking after his livestock but soon realised he was serious and walked away, maintaining eye contact until I was at a safe distance)

He is/was a full on tinfoil hat, anti vax, big pharma conspiracy nut, I mentioned it to my sister and she said "yeah, he's insane but he does a good job and he's cheap"
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1121 on: February 13, 2019, 10:02:03 am »
I never employ nutcases. Next thing you'll hear is "I mixed your paint with my own blood to keep the aliens away, but your wall might have AIDS now" or something.
 

Offline McBryce

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1122 on: February 13, 2019, 10:03:48 am »
I had a surreal conversation with the decorator at my sister's place, he had ordered a Rife machine from the US for a couple of thousand $ which he was convinced would cure all disease but was being suppressed by 'big pharma' (I was tempted to ask why Big Pharma wasn't looking after his livestock but soon realised he was serious and walked away, maintaining eye contact until I was at a safe distance)

He is/was a full on tinfoil hat, anti vax, big pharma conspiracy nut, I mentioned it to my sister and she said "yeah, he's insane but he does a good job and he's cheap"

Did he use real paint or did he wipe milk on the wall to get one over on "Big Chem" ?

McBryce.
 
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Offline gildasd

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1123 on: February 13, 2019, 10:50:25 am »
My sister a few years back started ranting about aluminium in food.
After pointing out the obvious, I fed her that big Agro was adding C6H12O6 into our food.
Took her a few days  :)
I'm electronically illiterate
 

Offline helius

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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1124 on: February 13, 2019, 05:35:28 pm »
After pointing out the obvious, I fed her that big Agro was adding C6H12O6 into our food.
That one is more of a serious matter!
 


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