Author Topic: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter  (Read 35206 times)

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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
« Reply #275 on: August 31, 2019, 03:16:40 am »
Because daves power supply needs to communicate with the PC, presumably for the SCPI control. HID = comm, USB-PD = lots of power.
USB CDC-ACM is a better fit if you're looking to emulate a serial port, and in fact is what's used on most Arduino-like platforms with native USB. HID is better when you want to emulate an input device such as a keyboard, mouse, or joystick.

As for USB-PD, there seems to be a library for STM32, no idea how easy/difficult it is to use.
https://github.com/st-one/X-CUBE-USB-PD
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
« Reply #276 on: August 31, 2019, 05:13:41 am »
What does USB-PD have to do with HID?  ???

HID is a major pain in the butt, especially given the millions of ways the same thing can be encoded in the descriptor but only one or two work in Windows (so the standard is not really the spec but "whatever Windows accepts"). But I don't see why that would be a reason why a soldering iron would use QC3 instead of PD, given that HID is totally unrelated to it.

Because daves power supply needs to communicate with the PC, presumably for the SCPI control. HID = comm, USB-PD = lots of power.
The TS80 does not use HID, but uses comparatively simple QC3 to get the high USB power transmitted. Implementing PD would add cost and development time.

Correct, HID is for the uSupply not the TS80
 

Online Kilrah

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Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
« Reply #277 on: August 31, 2019, 07:01:49 am »
Yep, and David's still working on USB-PD...
Probably a bit late, but you might want to look at a fully open working implementation: https://www.tindie.com/products/clarahobbs/pd-buddy-sink/

It literally does all you want (PD power negotiation and multi-platform data comms) apart from the actual variable PSU output stage.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 05:14:38 pm by Kilrah »
 
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Offline janoc

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Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
« Reply #278 on: August 31, 2019, 08:37:51 am »
No one said it did.
The PSU needs both USB-PD and HID to be considered "complete". They have been decided as the requirements, for better or for worse.

I guess then I have misunderstood the messages by Dave and you as somehow implying that if you want PD you need to implement HID and that the TS80 iron was able to get by with QC3 instead because it doesn't need to talk to the PC (and thus doesn't need HID).

Which did not make sense to me.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
« Reply #279 on: August 31, 2019, 04:14:51 pm »
@Dave: are you going to provide an USB-PD power adapter with the uSupply, or leave that to the user?

USB-PD is rather hairy, and I would expect not ALL USB ports claiming to support it to be really 100% compliant, so you may have compatibility issues in the field. Thus selling the product with an adapter you have tested compatible looks like a good idea. May not be what you intended to do at all?
 

Online Kilrah

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Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
« Reply #280 on: August 31, 2019, 05:15:48 pm »
All PD things work with all PD things from my experience, BUT you DO have to make sure to support multiple power configs and adapt to it. If Dave makes a device that needs the 15V 3A profile and will only work with that then it won't work with any supply that doesn't offer that profile. Need to design with multiple profiles, and properly query the source for its supported profiles, then choose the more appropriate one from that and adjust your output limits accordingly if necessary.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
« Reply #281 on: September 04, 2019, 10:49:26 pm »
Check out this TI version with proper 18-bit ADC: https://www.ti.com/tool/TIDA-01012?jktype=design

But the BOM looks to be at least 4x more expensive, of course they use the high end TI opamps, references, etc.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
« Reply #282 on: September 04, 2019, 11:31:09 pm »
Yep, and David's still working on USB-PD...
Probably a bit late, but you might want to look at a fully open working implementation: https://www.tindie.com/products/clarahobbs/pd-buddy-sink/
It literally does all you want (PD power negotiation and multi-platform data comms) apart from the actual variable PSU output stage.

Doesn't look to be open source, no that's of no help.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
« Reply #283 on: September 04, 2019, 11:32:40 pm »
All PD things work with all PD things from my experience, BUT you DO have to make sure to support multiple power configs and adapt to it. If Dave makes a device that needs the 15V 3A profile and will only work with that then it won't work with any supply that doesn't offer that profile.

It only uses the 5V profile.
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
« Reply #284 on: September 04, 2019, 11:52:45 pm »
By the sound of it this subject probably warrants a dedicated thread and perhaps even a video to inform others of the potential hurdles, hazards and headaches involved.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
« Reply #285 on: September 05, 2019, 12:00:52 am »
By the sound of it this subject probably warrants a dedicated thread and perhaps even a video to inform others of the potential hurdles, hazards and headaches involved.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/supporters-lounge/usupply-prototype/
 

Offline MBY

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Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
« Reply #286 on: September 05, 2019, 09:32:17 am »
Silly product indeed! But, there should be a place for "alternative" multimeters, if you understand what engineers want. Many years ago, I built an "acoustic multimeter" that do three and only three things. Continuity, ohms and volts. Continuity is the same as the lowest ohms scale. A beeper gives a tone according to the resistance or voltage. Nothing more, nothing less. But it has been REALLY useful for me over the years when you only need an indication and cannot read a display and measure at the same time.

Unfortunately I lost it when I moved a couple of years ago and the schematics is long gone, but I'm thinking of creating a new one.

Edit: the ranges were 0-10 ohms, 1k, 100k, 10M and 0-1, 5, 20 volts. Today I would made the ranges a little bit different as voltages such as 1.8, 2.7 and 3.3 volts are more common than old TTL levels. The 0-10 ohms range however, was perfect for continuity.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 09:35:49 am by MBY »
 

Online Kilrah

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Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
« Reply #287 on: September 05, 2019, 10:31:40 am »
Probably a bit late, but you might want to look at a fully open working implementation: https://www.tindie.com/products/clarahobbs/pd-buddy-sink/
It literally does all you want (PD power negotiation and multi-platform data comms) apart from the actual variable PSU output stage.

Doesn't look to be open source, no that's of no help.
As I said it IS fully open source, both software and hardware. See links at the bottom of the page.
https://git.clarahobbs.com/pd-buddy
 
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Offline Monsterwolf

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Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
« Reply #288 on: September 12, 2019, 07:06:38 am »
Unfortunately I lost it when I moved a couple of years ago and the schematics is long gone, but I'm thinking of creating a new one.
How long will it take to finish?
 


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