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Products => Dodgy Technology => Topic started by: Muttley Snickers on March 18, 2018, 07:27:10 am

Title: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on March 18, 2018, 07:27:10 am
I don't have much to say about this thing other than they make some pretty outlandish claims and statements in relation to how much easier and less complex it is to use when compared to regular multimeters, that's a bold claim considering how they expect people to learn and remember some ridiculous colour sequence.

Their initial goal wasn't all that much so the campaign was funded rather quickly, some credit due for that I suppose and they are at least responding to questions in the comments section, somebody specifically asked in relation to the meters certification or compliance but this has not been completed from what I understood.

"Using multimeters to measure items was always a struggle due to its complex nature and outdated system".


Vion Website.
https://www.vionmeter.io/ (https://www.vionmeter.io/)

Vion Kickstarter Page.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtASgGVZvgk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtASgGVZvgk)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkX6H4NAC70 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkX6H4NAC70)


I hereby reserve the right to relocate this thread elsewhere on the forum, more than likely to the Dodgy Technology section or thereabouts.   ::) :P
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: sleemanj on March 18, 2018, 07:48:30 am
"so you don’t have to worry about the risks of damage due to wrong selections"

Shows after-effects visual of current shunt and fuse glowing red on a meter.... Vion does not have current modes, so, yes I guess they are right, you're going to have a hard time burning out a current shunt and fuse that doesn't exist.


Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on March 18, 2018, 08:03:34 am
They wrote or mentioned somewhere in the marketing bullshit about people "having to make sense of the numbers" in regards to reading a conventional multimeter, it is these types of comments that will readily bring scrutiny and ridicule to a product such as this, they should know better.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: llkiwi2006 on March 18, 2018, 08:23:31 am
Quote
For existing multimeters, if the placement of the probes is off by even a little, the multimeter’s internal circuit board (PCB) may be damaged. Vion, however, is easily manageable, as there is no body or internal circuit board.

 :palm: :palm: :palm:  Some of their claims might just be misleading, but this is straight up lying.

Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: TheAmmoniacal on March 18, 2018, 09:25:21 am
"1.00O Hm" across that jumper wire  :-DD

EDIT: Look at the rest of the data displayed on the phone

Device: Galaxy S8
Voltage: 18.00V
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: TheAmmoniacal on March 18, 2018, 09:29:50 am
Seems like the Vion only does |readings|  :-DD

This is a joke right? Parody?
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on March 18, 2018, 10:03:36 am
USB charging port
Yeah, that's what you want, a multimeter that only works when two devices are charged (meter + phone)  ::)

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/020/471/695/6d2eaa4c99f6da2d57d899772fdd8ba5_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1520402021&auto=format&q=92&s=c8af640bc43c8fcd784fb5bd0b46c170)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: TheAmmoniacal on March 18, 2018, 10:05:55 am
And it does DC current measurements..  :palm:
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: PTR_1275 on March 18, 2018, 10:07:56 am
So how can you tell which lead is the positive connection when doing dc measurements?

No internal circuit board, that’s interesting (I also have never broken my “fragile” multimeter pcb by proving a few mm in the wrong direction)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: TheAmmoniacal on March 18, 2018, 10:10:54 am
So how can you tell which lead is the positive connection when doing dc measurements?

No internal circuit board, that’s interesting (I also have never broken my “fragile” multimeter pcb by proving a few mm in the wrong direction)

As far as I know, it's not possible. Presumably it will just give a positive value, hence the |reading| sign (absolute value).
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Twoflower on March 18, 2018, 10:24:36 am
The first moment the thingy reminded me of the older Duspol devices, as they had also black housing. They're well build and extremely robust. I remember my dad had one analogue Duspol at work. Everyone called it Klapper for a reason. Nearly indestructable and safe to use. But this is just :palm:

And the second thing: It was founded after 18 hours. And counting...

Quote
And it does DC current measurements..  :palm:
No they don't, see the technical data on KS. Would be very interesting to see how they would deign a shunt through the springy cable which would be required for current measurements.

Edit: I was wrong. In the comment section they really think about to include DC current measurement... :palm:
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on March 18, 2018, 11:02:22 am
They wrote or mentioned somewhere in the marketing bullshit about people "having to make sense of the numbers" in regards to reading a conventional multimeter, it is these types of comments that will readily bring scrutiny and ridicule to a product such as this, they should know better.

And their meter then goes and displays those numbers.
I don't see the point, it's trying to solve problems that either don't exist, or already have better solutions. e.g. AC detection stick.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: MadTux on March 18, 2018, 08:22:34 pm
The first DMM that might make your wife/girlfried happy.  ;D
The probing pin must be removeable though.  The beeper is old  ;D,  how about some vibration feature for continuity?
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: igendel on March 18, 2018, 08:44:09 pm
But pulling the Vion from your bag and having to bring the probes to contact with the things... then reading numbers... so much work... makes me tired just thinking about it. Come on this is 2018, wake me up when Kickstarter has a contactless resistance meter that transmits the data directly to your brain(R).

[Edited: resistance, not current, slight mind malfunction due to Vion]
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: nidlaX on March 19, 2018, 04:15:11 am
They definitely have the best Rccuracy I've ever seen in a meter.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=405050)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: ataradov on March 19, 2018, 04:20:04 am
Rccuracy on Frequence is best in class.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Mr. Scram on March 19, 2018, 04:29:39 am
USB charging port
Yeah, that's what you want, a multimeter that only works when two devices are charged (meter + phone)  ::)

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/020/471/695/6d2eaa4c99f6da2d57d899772fdd8ba5_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1520402021&auto=format&q=92&s=c8af640bc43c8fcd784fb5bd0b46c170)
A long history of me using phone or tablet attachable devices has taught me that it's always more of a hassle than I'd like. I'll take a regular multimeter every time, unless something like logging is involved. Even then it's still a hassle.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: nidlaX on March 19, 2018, 04:31:01 am
Rccuracy on Frequence is best in class.
Don't forget its operating temperature range is between -10 to 50 of any units of your choice!
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Bassman59 on March 19, 2018, 05:16:22 am
Rccuracy on Frequence is best in class.
Don't forget its operating temperature range is between -10 to 50 of any units of your choice!

Since it has no º symbol, I can only assume the units are Kelvin!
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: imidis on March 19, 2018, 05:20:50 am
I dunno, reading the multimeter numbers is so complicated! How is one supposed to know what 12.00 DC means? Reading the continuity buzzer is darn near impossible! Why use a bulky multimeter when you can use your $600+ phone to read the app.  :palm:
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Mr. Scram on March 19, 2018, 05:59:55 am
I dunno, reading the multimeter numbers is so complicated! How is one supposed to know what 12.00 DC means? Reading the continuity buzzer is darn near impossible! Why use a bulky multimeter when you can use your $600+ phone to read the app.  :palm:
To be fair, I can't call with my $600 multimeter.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Urs42 on March 19, 2018, 11:54:58 am
To be fair, I can't call with my $600 multimeter.

And your multimeter dosn't measure emductors, i guess proofreading was too expensive for them.

Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on March 20, 2018, 10:05:26 am
This is hilarious, it appears that some Youtube gadget marketing channel has been reading this forum and have hijacked my thread title, they have then included my text as part of the Youtube video title, it must be some type of new elaborate marketing strategy or something.   :o ::) :P

As seen on EEVblog.      :-DD

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=405367;image)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KILPxe4gSM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KILPxe4gSM)

Edit: The video originally referred to has been replaced or renamed with the one above.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: rsjsouza on March 20, 2018, 10:27:47 am
Duh... I made simplest meters when I was a kid using a few resistors and a galvanometer:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=405370;image)

If you can't make sense of numbers, simply remove the scale on the background.

Look ma! No batteries needed!

(Image credit (http://www.novatech-usa.com/Products/Electricity-Educational/MGV003.html))
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on March 20, 2018, 11:40:37 pm
And it does DC current measurements..  :palm:

Is it fused then? And how much current? What gauge is that connecting wire, or is it multi-core?

That charging port better be isolated too. Otherwise it could blow up something if plugged in or arc a voltage to your hand.

An app? So this is an invitation for IOT wank loving hipsters to mess with electricity and kill themselves? :palm: on second thought...Darwin would be proud! >:D
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on March 21, 2018, 05:54:28 pm
But...

Why, oh why?  |O
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Twoflower on March 21, 2018, 07:42:55 pm
Bah, not even data storage in the cloud, sharing on SocialMedia, not BlockChain protected. So utterly useless  :-DD

How many of you has now a completed BS-Bingo card  ;)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Gregg on March 21, 2018, 11:00:22 pm
But...

Why, oh why?  |O
Obviously the Batterizer has been beaten to death so we need entertainment to keep us out of trouble :-+ :-DD
Even expensive multimeters aren't smart enough to tell if something is good v.s. bad like the "smart" Vion can.  Plus the Vion even makes up new units to measure and makes up new words for their lofty specifications.  This device is perfect for the dumbing down trend.
I'd be willing to donate a few $ to help send one or more for Joe to test properly and maybe one to Big Clive  :-DD :popcorn: 
I am especially in awe of the woman holding the probes with their long uninsulated sections into the lamp socket; maybe this super smart device can tell the circuit is OK even when the power is off. 
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on March 21, 2018, 11:27:42 pm
This is hilarious, it appears that some Youtube gadget marketing channel has been reading this forum and have hijacked my thread title, they have then included my text as part of the Youtube video title, it must be some type of new elaborate marketing strategy or something.   :o ::) :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHp4_rrTiYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHp4_rrTiYY)

:palm:
Oh dear, this is Batteriser level promo marketing.
Next up expect "Aussie Man" and the Twins!

His entire channel is just doing script based marketing:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1oKNIfJihjFMZo3eGMEumQ/videos (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1oKNIfJihjFMZo3eGMEumQ/videos)

Airing!
(https://i.imgur.com/9EiLg3i.jpg)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on March 22, 2018, 12:46:46 am
I'd be willing to donate a few $ to help send one or more for Joe to test properly and maybe one to Big Clive  :-

As the instigator of this thread I would also be willing to kick in some money should somebody want to rip one apart and have a sticky beak. I'm interested in why they would have chosen stainless steel probe tips and the included 2mm replacement fuse also boggles the mind.   :o ::)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=405780;image)

Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Barny on March 22, 2018, 06:28:52 am
This is hilarious, it appears that some Youtube gadget marketing channel has been reading this forum and have hijacked my thread title, they have then included my text as part of the Youtube video title, it must be some type of new elaborate marketing strategy or something.   :o ::) :P

As seen on EEVblog.      :-DD

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=405367;image)
At the first seconds I thought a finnish guy starts to say something like: "This is Multimeter Man. He is extremely dangerous and will attack at any moment. So we have to deal with it."
A humming sound starts and a piston is comeing from the top.  :-DD


This multimeter thing reminds me in my old, yellow Ca0 Voltcraft Pen-DMM.
It got 100mA current measure capability (standard glass fuse) and could measure up to 230V AC if you were brave (or dumb) enough.
It was fast at autoranging and had a cable with crocodile clip hanging out of its ar...
Even its dangerous as hell, my old pen-DMM with its 3coin cells is more capable as this multimeter toy and has a longer runtime.
(except the phone is hanging on a wall wart 24/7)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: GeekGirl on March 22, 2018, 09:44:15 am
Hmmmm, I think my http://www.kewtechcorp.com/products/electrical-testing/kt1780 (http://www.kewtechcorp.com/products/electrical-testing/kt1780) Two pole led voltage tester does more than this with a longer run time ;) Not only does it show DC and AC voltage ( Agreed in steps of 12, 24, 50, 120, 230, 400, 690) but it also does continuity with a reasonably fast beeper (fast enough for belling out PLC circuits) and it shows Phase rotation :). (I was looking at upgrading to a fluke one with LCD but for a quick and dirty is their voltage present on that conductor it works very well :)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: ultranalog on March 22, 2018, 10:46:27 pm
What an innovative idea, LEDs to use for indications on a multimeter.

Maybe an even better idea would be a display of sorts, maybe using liquid crystals.
Nah never mind, that'll never take off...
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Neomys Sapiens on March 23, 2018, 01:03:28 am
And it does DC current measurements..  :palm:

Is it fused then? And how much current? What gauge is that connecting wire, or is it multi-core?

That charging port better be isolated too. Otherwise it could blow up something if plugged in or arc a voltage to your hand.

An app? So this is an invitation for IOT wank loving hipsters to mess with electricity and kill themselves? :palm: on second thought...Darwin would be proud! >:D

Shhhh! A few of them less would be nice!
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on March 23, 2018, 01:35:18 am
They have now added a bonus feature.   :palm:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=406047;image)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on March 23, 2018, 01:36:13 am
Check out the almost cringe worth of some mechanical engineers from the institute of mechanical engineers talking about how much they like it.

https://ksr-video.imgix.net/assets/020/490/600/eb5c691640d2325c6870efcb3151bb3f_h264_high.mp4
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on March 23, 2018, 01:37:25 am
They have now added a bonus feature.   :palm:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=406047;image)

 :-DD
Do I even have to point out:
a) how does it know it's a light bulb? You'd have to pass significant current through it to get it to heat up and change the resistance, and then your contact resistance is going to suck.
b) If the bulb is blown it can't tell it's a bulb because it can't measure anything
c) How does it know what type, rating and size of bulb it is?
d) Who the hell uses light bulbs any more? Ovens and fridges are about it.

This is so monumentally stupid  :palm:
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on March 23, 2018, 01:50:10 am
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/020/521/384/2dabc63a926e1b98a92e960863317c74_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1520827281&auto=format&q=92&s=126f23bc37efe81724f0ba2644959aeb)

What is the "sensitivity" of the instrument? I presume it means range.

And what is an "Emductor"?  :-//  :palm:

And HRD+ and HRD- ?  ???

Power Out?
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: xrunner on March 23, 2018, 01:57:21 am
I would hate getting a phone call right in the middle of my measurement.  :-DD
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: free_electron on March 23, 2018, 06:21:27 pm
i am going to buy one. i want to measure inside the tv's remote control battery compartment like they do. who knows . i may find a way to skip commercials (like these)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on March 24, 2018, 06:53:00 pm
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/020/521/384/2dabc63a926e1b98a92e960863317c74_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1520827281&auto=format&q=92&s=126f23bc37efe81724f0ba2644959aeb)

What is the "sensitivity" of the instrument? I presume it means range.

And what is an "Emductor"?  :-//  :palm:

And HRD+ and HRD- ?  ???

Power Out?

Who cares? It "will make you an expert on electrical devices"!  :-DD
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SL4P on March 25, 2018, 07:11:51 am
I’m guessing that 1.61V reading is taken on the 1.62V range...?
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: andreimaxim on March 25, 2018, 07:14:59 pm
What is the "sensitivity" of the instrument? I presume it means range.

And what is an "Emductor"?  :-//  :palm:

And HRD+ and HRD- ?  ???

Power Out?

Based on the screenshot, I'd say that they are going for "High Definition Range" (in the photo it's actually HDR+ and HDR-).
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on March 26, 2018, 12:11:58 am
112V 50Hz? What country is that? :o

Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: ataradov on March 26, 2018, 12:16:23 am
At least Jamaica according to some random list on the internet. That would also explain this whole creation, this year crop of weed is too damn strong.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on March 26, 2018, 12:19:49 am
At least Jamaica according to some random list on the internet. That would also explain this whole creation, this year crop of weed is too damn strong.

 :-DD

I wonder if will explode on 420V...
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on March 26, 2018, 01:25:47 am
They have a product brochure available for download from the site linked below but a bit big to post here so I've saved it in picture form. Also, I don't recognise the wall plate so what the hell is the lady on the left dicking around with ?, a power point perhaps ?, no it couldn't be surely.   :o ::)

Vion.
http://www.twoelec.com/ (http://www.twoelec.com/)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=406862;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=406864;image)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: xrunner on March 26, 2018, 01:49:39 am
Also, I don't recognise the wall plate so what the hell is the lady on the left dicking around with ?, a power point perhaps ?, no it couldn't be surely.   :o ::)

I saved the image and zoomed in with a graphics program. I dunno what that connection block is she's smiling so much over. She looks like she really wants to touch something in there with her finger.

If the graphic is all about that meter then she should be using the damn meter instead of a screwdriver LOL.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: igendel on March 26, 2018, 08:54:23 am
I saved the image and zoomed in with a graphics program. I dunno what that connection block is she's smiling so much over. She looks like she really wants to touch something in there with her finger.

A bit of sidetracking, but talking about that picture... are fingernails isolating? Can one get zapped from wall power through a long fingernail*?

* Don't try this at... anywhere :-)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on March 26, 2018, 03:26:21 pm
I saved the image and zoomed in with a graphics program. I dunno what that connection block is she's smiling so much over. She looks like she really wants to touch something in there with her finger.

A bit of sidetracking, but talking about that picture... are fingernails isolating? Can one get zapped from wall power through a long fingernail*?

Fingernails have pretty high impedance if not soaked in water. But they are also thin and directly on the skin, which means than the isolation distance is probably too small to be safe for dealing with mains safely, depending on what part of the nail is touching. Also, I guess that some nail polish/paint may be slightly conductive.

That said, the pictures are most likely from public picture collections.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: schmitt trigger on March 26, 2018, 03:47:23 pm
Your Fluke can't do Facebook or Instagram.

With Vion you can boast to your friends that you are actually measuring a voltage above -gulp- 12 volts and lived to tell the story.
This is a killer app! (pun intended).  >:D


Now, seriously........
I believe this Vion thing will sell to the social media crowd, and the developer will be laughing all the way to the bank.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on March 26, 2018, 03:58:06 pm
What if it's actually a sinister plot to kill off hipsters... >:D
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on April 01, 2018, 08:24:10 pm
Well, noticed another funny thing. Their strange approach of color code.

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/020/468/070/f19160b01d55c24774d8d8d2f0b003be_original.gif?w=680&fit=max&v=1520375712&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=58ae9eec5d460d653cbad0845e9aaa70)

Green as an indication of "broken objects"? Really?  :-DD
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: PTR_1275 on April 02, 2018, 01:57:11 am
And as mentioned before, how can it tell between the leads not being connected to anything, or a blown light globe.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Kean on April 02, 2018, 10:59:26 am
Well, noticed another funny thing. Their strange approach of color code.

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/020/468/070/f19160b01d55c24774d8d8d2f0b003be_original.gif?w=680&fit=max&v=1520375712&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=58ae9eec5d460d653cbad0845e9aaa70)

Green as an indication of "broken objects"? Really?  :-DD

The way I read that chart I actually think the green indicator means a short circuit, so lack of green would be a blown globe.
But still this whole product is  :palm:
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on April 03, 2018, 05:48:31 pm
Indications of PLUGS and LAMP SOCKETS?! :-DD

First of all, what the hell does this mean? You'd have to remove the connector to test continuity of it. Unless they have an integrated switch that may have failed, testing continuity is pointless. :palm:

Second, we know that wankers that buy this will connect it with the power on. It will certainly explode then, no way this POS will survive mains on continuity. >:D

Also, the lights for AC and DC are stupid. I mean, no shit Sherlock! :palm: I bet if you put it on AC riding on DC, it would either crash, or just say AC. >:D :-DD

EDIT: The failure mode of connectors is usually corrosion/charring. While this may indicate that by lack of continuity if it's bad enough, if it's bad and has resistance but still conducts enough to trigger the indicator, it will seem "good". If you plug in a high current appliance...prepare for a lot of burning. >:D
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on April 04, 2018, 04:54:05 am
One of their recent comments on the Kickstarter page states that they now have category three certification on the device as shown in the first image below. It also appears that the unit should display a green LED when continuity is detected between the probe tips as shown in the second image below which indicates that their own description on how the device operates is somewhat confused.   

I now have concerns in regards to how trustworthy their promotional material and videos are, if you look at the other two images below where the nine volt battery is tested the LED is blue then it turns red to indicate a DC voltage is present before the probes even make contact with the battery terminals. There is a gif image or short video on the Kickstarter page which clearly shows this miraculous detection technology, hardly a properly working prototype in my view.

 
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: rsjsouza on April 04, 2018, 05:24:06 pm
Funny, is there such thing as CAT III 500V? I thought it was set in specific steps of 300, 600 and 1000V.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on April 04, 2018, 05:24:13 pm
Has no internal PCB?

Ah...so it's dead bug/point-to-point wired...I see. Poor shitty Chinese microprocessor... :-DD Of course is has a damn PCB, we've seen the blurry images, and you don't dead-bug products. :palm:

Ah yes...no mechanical switches...or certainty. Fully automatic Bluetooth iPhone IOT wank bullshit controlled multi-meter with only one input that could malfunction because you checked your Farcebark and decide to suddenly go into current or continuity mode when connected to MAINS! :palm: :-BROKE

CAT III my ass! Does it have HRC fuses and MOVs? What's the (apparently non-existant) PCB clearance?

EDIT: I think they mean it can read up to 500V, not that it would be safe anywhere near that. If they're lying about that CAT rating, they'll get their asses kicked!

EDIT2: "Feel free to ask questions" We will, all of the above. Although they appear to not know what they're rambling on about...so that may go nowhere (or they'll just lie or ignore them).
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: PA4TIM on April 14, 2018, 07:14:46 pm
If this sells I'm going to develop the ultimate meter. 

- Take the TS100 body,
- reinforce the tips and make them in srewdriver shapes. So solder-iron and srewdriver. For the USA a special sodder version.
- use the display with beamer function  as multimeter, internetbrowser, youtube viewer.
- internal free-energy generator with hidden battery and use the power supply connector input  for a special testlead.

This lead will have
- groundclip and pure anti-allergene copper ESD wristband with crocodile lock for closing the loop, functions as negative probe, ESD  safety device, hanging the meter, anti-drop,  antenna for wireless far-field communications.
- The pure copper wristband doubles as hyperloop detector and communication magloop for industrial use.
- The reinforced testlead is made by Australian virgin spiders and is a multifunction test lead that rolls in the body. So it makes it possible to secure your self on ladders of for abseilen in case of fire (caused by this device)
- The device is HAM friendly, the test lead wil be 20 meter so it can double as antenna for wireless use in the 80 meter band.
- a special app that uses the build in X-ray and infrared webcam recognizes all electronic parts, reverse engineers every circuit in seconds and tells you what is wrong.
- The special Y-fony finger sensor monitors you body functions and phones 911 if you burn, stab or electrocute yourself with this device. (not available on the Japanese harikiri  version.)
- It has an ultrasone sensor, just dump it in a bucket of water and it will clean your tools. Also available in pink.....
- The free energy generator is based on nano-peltiers and doubles as beer cooler (the Canadian version wil have a bear cooler)

There will be a big kickstarter campaign.
For certain African regions we skip the campaign part and only add the kickstarter

There will be a special forces edition that doubles as a taser.

Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: taydin on April 14, 2018, 08:03:39 pm
Well, it has more than 1700 backers and 13 times the the money set in their goal :) Goes to show that you can sell anything if you did the marketing part right. Ask the audiophools!
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on April 14, 2018, 11:24:24 pm
Well, it has more than 1700 backers and 13 times the the money set in their goal :) Goes to show that you can sell anything if you did the marketing part right. Ask the audiophools!

Yes, this is incredible. Note that the initial goal was very low to release a product IMO, even this!

The parallel with the audiophools is interesting. In both cases, their targets are tech-inclined, but not tech-savvy people. In order words, people who usually think they know, but actually don't know much and thus are very easy to trap, because the products are flattering their egos.

Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: GerryBags on April 15, 2018, 09:55:35 am
At last! A really selective device for separating the brain-dead (who have somehow figured out internet access) from their disability payments! This device creates a super-sharp cut-off (coded lilac on my iFridge) between people with any inkling whatsoever about how magnets work and those who don't.

Vion have very successfully gathered a database of investors who could be persuaded to buy almost anything at all. That has got to be valuable! I bet the UK MOD department that ordered those dodgy bomb detectors was an early sign-up on kockstarter.

Are we 100% sure this isn't a viral ad for The Onion?
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Kean on April 15, 2018, 10:19:16 am
Wow, the creators replies to questions by backers are painful to read - they show the same total lack of comprehension as the product concept itself.
I'm going to back this for $1 just to watch the fun as it plays out  >:D
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on April 15, 2018, 11:50:11 am
Well, noticed another funny thing. Their strange approach of color code.

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/020/468/070/f19160b01d55c24774d8d8d2f0b003be_original.gif?w=680&fit=max&v=1520375712&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=58ae9eec5d460d653cbad0845e9aaa70)

Green as an indication of "broken objects"? Really?  :-DD

Unless you used it every day you'd quickly forget all those color modes anyway.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: xrunner on April 15, 2018, 03:34:17 pm
How about (only) BLUE for BLUETOOTH

RED for Resistance

Amber for Ac

and so on.

Add other colors as appropriate ... I mean if that's the way they want to go with it ...  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Mr. Scram on April 16, 2018, 01:11:38 am
How about (only) BLUE for BLUETOOTH

RED for Resistance

Amber for Ac

and so on.

Add other colors as appropriate ... I mean if that's the way they want to go with it ...  :popcorn:
That doesn't seem to jive with an international market.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Distelzombie on April 16, 2018, 01:47:25 am
If it's true what they say then this is really great! Like technological-singularity-great!!
So, I just use this black plastic sticks to point at things and a body-less entity whispers measurements in my ear! Just think about it:
- "The multimeter has no PCB"
- "The multimeter has no body"
- It speaks measurements out loud
- It can magically tell what kind of socket you're testing or what that broken light-bulb is, then shows you the exact same on your smartphone app
- It can measure Emductor with high Rccuracy! Those things aren't even invented yet!!

AMAZING!! It is finally here! The technological singularity! Where we enslave higher dimensional beings to serve us as Multimeters.
Of course the color code thing is prone to mistakes: When I would be enslaved by lower dimensional beings to show them what they want, I too wouldn't care much about it, as long as they don't throw me away.

Everything makes sense when you think about it this way. Brrrrr... shiver up my spine!
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on April 16, 2018, 02:18:25 am
Apparently it can not only distinguish the type and rating of a blown and open circuit incandescent light globe but it also incorporates the miraculous ability to direct the user to the most appropriate source for that particular bulb, I'm pretty sure our nearest Home Depot is in Honolulu.   :palm:
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on April 17, 2018, 11:48:19 am
It seems they are now chucking in a luxury stretch goal case with the meter as can bee seen in the image below, it also appears that they are avoiding a question posed by one of the backers in relation to the off or idle state current consumption and accordingly the longevity of the meter.

I have saved the up to date comments in PDF format below where a couple of the backers are talking about quitting, I didn't know people could pull out of these things once they made a commitment to support a campaign.

Vion Comments.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/comments (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/comments)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=412756;image)


Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Distelzombie on April 17, 2018, 12:41:07 pm
"Vion" really sounds like a luxury brand to me anyway.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: PA4TIM on April 17, 2018, 01:12:53 pm
You could fit a normal DMM in that case, you know, the one with a PCB and display and no need for a smartphone app that only works until some update of the OS. The kind of meter that survives falling out your hands . Or like in the first kickstart movie where the meter drops but holds on to the test leads instead of dropping your smartphone because you need three hands.

About the colors. After you measured, remember the color, look at the phone and they show you the color too so you can not forget. Then open the helpfile and search for the meaning of the colors.
Red, the cases where you are chasing a RED haring or was it something with a wolf eating granny, a ferry tale, just like the meter
Blue, the cases where the problem comes out of the blue and into the black or the other way around ? or the Niel Young mode
Green, summit the green lantern if you need help. Or does it you are seasick ?
Yellow for dangerous situations under water..oh, wait that had to do with a submarine.
smoke, to detect a wifi-hotspot.

A watch that doubles as scope and/or dmm is much more fun. If I was good in programming I would do that with the watch TI made a few years ago. (i have one)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: xrunner on April 17, 2018, 07:13:24 pm
About the colors. After you measured, remember the color, look at the phone and they show you the color too so you can not forget. Then open the helpfile and search for the meaning of the colors.
Red, the cases where you are chasing a RED haring or was it something with a wolf eating granny, a ferry tale, just like the meter
Blue, the cases where the problem comes out of the blue and into the black or the other way around ? or the Niel Young mode
Green, summit the green lantern if you need help. Or does it you are seasick ?
Yellow for dangerous situations under water..oh, wait that had to do with a submarine.
smoke, to detect a wifi-hotspot.

LOL  :-DD

Oh I just can't resist ...

Red, {R}emeber what just happened - the meter is telling you about an important event.
Blue, {B}acktrack your steps - something is overloading
Green, {G}et back quickly - a component is about to smoke.
Yellow, {Y}ou don't know what you are doing - both regarding your detected troublshooting steps, and your knowledge of buying quality DMMs.  :P
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: PA4TIM on April 17, 2018, 10:21:18 pm
Yellow : you need a Fluke...the gadget shows you the dealer in Anthartica
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on April 18, 2018, 02:41:19 am
They have now responded to some of the backers recent questions which in itself is commendable and according to their statement the device draws no current whatsoever in the idle or off state. Also confirmation that in its current configuration it cannot measure current, probably a good thing anyway, keep it simply stupid.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=412937;image)

 
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: joeqsmith on April 18, 2018, 03:09:33 am
I've never had a desire to own a cell phone and would have to invest in one just to play with it.   

I'm surprised how that electrician blackened his cheapo meter and yet the glass fuse is still in place.  And with all that black, there was not much of a bang to go along with it. 

Looks like you have to hold the probes.  I wonder what happens when a small transient is applied across the two tips..... Does there meter turn black as well? 
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Distelzombie on April 18, 2018, 04:11:26 am
I've done similar with a cheap Multimeter. It was something along the current-chunt that burned. But that was a long time ago and very cheap. Fuse was still intact. The glas at least.

----
Seems like my theory of enslaved higher dimensional beings is getting closer and closer to being flat-out acknowledged by the manufacturer.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: edy on April 18, 2018, 04:14:42 am
This device is a sure-fire way to end up getting some people hurt and circuits damaged. At the very least, it will confuse the already confused and probably make it harder to actually figure out what is going on. It's a good thing it doesn't check currents... I can see someone testing a high current source like a mains plug, car battery or light socket and blowing a fuse or themselves up!  :-DD

If you don't know how to use a basic multimeter or understand the safety and concepts related to electrical circuits, and how voltage, resistance and current are related, the last thing you need is a "multimeter for dummies" (or at least what appears to be marketed that way).

I see in the examples in the video people checking a remote control, car battery, mains light bulb socket, batteries... seems like very simple case uses which this device is overkill for. The logging/graphing part is interesting but you can do this with a cheap bluetooth-capable multimeter if you want to record data.

The basic concept is interesting but this marketing to "noobs" and all this color-coding auto-detect stuff and phone app guiding you through testing electronics seems all wishy-washy to me and really seems to be the last thing you want in the hands of people who need that stuff.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on April 18, 2018, 02:58:39 pm
The basic concept is interesting but this marketing to "noobs" and all this color-coding auto-detect stuff and phone app guiding you through testing electronics seems all wishy-washy to me and really seems to be the last thing you want in the hands of people who need that stuff.

Well, one of their marketing mottos is that it "will make you an expert". It's hard to figure out how dumbing down a topic can make people experts on this particular topic. Obviously it's just a marketing gimmick, but the whole underlying concept is pretty twisted IMO.

Why would the world need this? People can buy reasonably safe (orders of magnitude safer than this), simple multimeters for like $30, and learn how to use them for basic stuff in a couple of hours. And actually be able to reuse this knowledge later on, in other situations, with other devices. When you're tied to dumbed-down tech, you don't learn anything. You're just tied.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on April 18, 2018, 05:42:12 pm
It's a good thing it doesn't check currents... I can see someone testing a high current source like a mains plug, car battery or light socket and blowing a fuse or themselves up!  :-DD

It's still dirt easy to blow up. Since there's pretty much guaranteed no protection in this POS, just put it across a high voltage source in continuity mode. >:D
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Orpheus on April 21, 2018, 06:32:28 pm
The basic concept is interesting but this marketing to "noobs" and all this color-coding auto-detect stuff and phone app guiding you through testing electronics seems all wishy-washy to me and really seems to be the last thing you want in the hands of people who need that stuff.

Well, one of their marketing mottos is that it "will make you an expert". It's hard to figure out how dumbing down a topic can make people experts on this particular topic. Obviously it's just a marketing gimmick, but the whole underlying concept is pretty twisted IMO.

They are turning the Dunning Kruger effect. That dial with all those markings/choices? A unwanted reminder of everything you don't know. Absent such reminders (and even with them), ingorant people overestimate their knowledge (unable to imagine the things they don't know), while far more knowlegeable users underestimate their knowledge, relative to others  ("surely anyone who owns/uses a multimeter can see how all the principles/modes work together; it's all basically Ohm's Law plus a few other facts")

It's a pervasive problem in society/marketing and it's not getting any better.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on May 03, 2018, 07:40:58 am
Here is the current news to date on this silly gadget, this Twoelec/ Allectrics/ Vion mob ran a Kickstarter campaign from 13th of March to the 27th of April with an initial goal of $10,000 and that amount was easily reached within a very short period of time, the Kickstarter campaign raised $191,661 with 2716 backers a few of which were somewhat disgruntled and asking for their money back towards the end.

Now for those who missed out on their Kickstarter campaign there is no need to panic because they have just started a completely new Indiegogo campaign with exactly the same gadget and identical marketing bullshit even though they are yet to ship a single unit to any of the existing Kickstarter backers, I would have thought that they had a binding obligation and commitment to the initial Kickstarter supporters before going out and commencing a new campaign or offering the device elsewhere.

To date and by their own admission they have not confirmed the existence of a fully operational and completed prototype, no confirmation of any regulatory compliance or certification, neither an Android or IOS Bluetooth application and no user manual either. On the plus side now accompanying the meter is a ninety day warranty after some of the backers refused to accept the previously offered thirty day warranty.

Kickstarter Campaign
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter)

Indiegogo Campaign
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=423016;image)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: ataradov on May 04, 2018, 03:08:36 am
Does IGG just let you type any amount raised you like? Oh how did they manage to add those $190k?
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Distelzombie on May 04, 2018, 10:26:28 am
This has one thing going for me: The cables don't tangle. I always hate the cables on my multimeter where ever they are.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Ridocar on May 04, 2018, 11:22:08 am
A measuring device for people with little (or no) knowledge in electronics, and they stick the probes in anything that works on electricity. What could go wrong?

Someone once told me: "if you make a fool-proof system, it's going to be used by fools".
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on May 04, 2018, 01:21:48 pm
Now for those who missed out on their Kickstarter campaign there is no need to panic because they have just started a completely new Indiegogo campaign with exactly the same gadget and identical marketing bullshit even though they are yet to ship a single unit to any of the existing Kickstarter backers, I would have thought that they had a binding obligation and commitment to the initial Kickstarter supporters before going out and commencing a new campaign or offering the device elsewhere.

How does a separate IGG campaign invalidate any obligation to the Kickstarter backers?
Provided they don't ship to others first I don't see the problem there apart from an image thing.

IGG actually contact successful KS campaigns to entice them to run another campaign and/or list it on their Marketplace.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: GreyWoolfe on May 07, 2018, 08:37:01 pm
At least Jamaica according to some random list on the internet. That would also explain this whole creation, this year crop of weed is too damn strong.

 :-DD

I wonder if will explode on 420V...

No, it won't.  It will go looking for munchies, drink your beer and pee in your kitchen sink.

Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on May 07, 2018, 09:02:52 pm
At least Jamaica according to some random list on the internet. That would also explain this whole creation, this year crop of weed is too damn strong.

 :-DD

I wonder if will explode on 420V...

No, it won't.  It will go looking for munchies, drink your beer and pee in your kitchen sink.

and the entire app just turns into stuff like "duuuuude...like...woooaaah maaaan!" >:D
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Seph.b on May 07, 2018, 11:18:52 pm
A meter that just checks continuity with a green LED lighting would actually be kinda handy to give my customers who usually don't even know what a continuity check is.

Pretty sure that I could build it for less than $.50 + cost of a battery.

Guess I should get a kickstarter going. Actually I remember using an electric fence tester as a kid that was pretty much this, guess I need to put a bluetooth symbol on it.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: xrunner on May 08, 2018, 02:51:08 am
Vion should link into the voice mail of the phone like:

Quote
I'm sorry but "your name" is busy measuring an AA battery please leave a message.
:clap:
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on July 11, 2018, 03:26:46 am
I just noticed in the Kickstarter comments that they are now hoping to bring to supporters "the best multimeter ever", I wish them the best of luck with that ridiculous promise, also one of the backers has asked about the Apple App Certification without a reply to date so that could be a hurdle for them as well.

Vion Comments.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/comments (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/comments)

Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Urs42 on July 11, 2018, 07:24:31 am
A multimeter with completely wireless probes would be nice.  :bullshit:
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on July 15, 2018, 11:55:45 am
Just an update on the Kickstarter campaign, they had originally declared a June delivery date and then promised July, now they are stating the end of September which is well after the scheduled August delivery date set for the Indiegogo campaign, it's no wonder the Kickstarter backers are throwing tantrums.   :o ::)

"Announcement"

"Dear Backer,
As you know we were responsible for delivering Vion by the end of July. Unfortunately, we are unable to do so due to some circumstances out of our control-certification approval. As a result, delivery will occur toward the end of September. We apologize for the delay. We have been trying our best to expedite the shipping process to deliver Vion to our backers in good shape. We  hope you will understand the current situation and once again thank you for your patience.  Vion Team"


Vion Comments.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/comments (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/comments)

Kickstarter Campaign
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter)

Indiegogo Campaign
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: julianhigginson on July 15, 2018, 12:55:50 pm
A multimeter with completely wireless probes would be nice.  :bullshit:


Shhhh... that's got to be the main new feature of vion2.
they will get rid of the cable between the probes and it'll work just as well as it did before, but with no awkward cable! win!
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on July 18, 2018, 01:57:57 am
Just an update on the Kickstarter campaign, they had originally declared a June delivery date and then promised July, now they are stating the end of September which is well after the scheduled August delivery date set for the Indiegogo campaign, it's no wonder the Kickstarter backers are throwing tantrums.   :o ::)

"Announcement"

"Dear Backer,
As you know we were responsible for delivering Vion by the end of July. Unfortunately, we are unable to do so due to some circumstances out of our control-certification approval. As a result, delivery will occur toward the end of September. We apologize for the delay. We have been trying our best to expedite the shipping process to deliver Vion to our backers in good shape. We  hope you will understand the current situation and once again thank you for your patience.  Vion Team"


Vion Comments.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/comments (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/comments)

Kickstarter Campaign
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter)

Indiegogo Campaign
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/)

*baby talk voice* Aww...poor Vion having twouble getting cewtified? >:D

They'll never get there rat turd dildo stick certified, it's basically as bad as those dollar Chinese meters in terms of safety, with even stupider feature added. They're either incredibly stupid (possible), or they know damn well it'll never work and are pulling the usual :bullshit: as an excuse to rip off people.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on July 18, 2018, 04:39:17 am
A multimeter with completely wireless probes would be nice.  :bullshit:

Done that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q2rnKExMiY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q2rnKExMiY)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on July 18, 2018, 04:40:07 am
I just noticed in the Kickstarter comments that they are now hoping to bring to supporters "the best multimeter ever", I wish them the best of luck with that ridiculous promise, also one of the backers has asked about the Apple App Certification without a reply to date so that could be a hurdle for them as well.

Having just gone through that, it's not quick nor easy.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on July 30, 2018, 01:12:26 am
Wow, it took them a while but they have now responded to the backers some of which were getting rather disgruntled with the lack of news. They have now decided to enhance this device with a number of drastic improvements in an effort to make it an even better piece of rubbish, at some point these gadgets will probably end up in the recycle bin once the internal battery is extinguished and can no longer hold a charge and I somehow doubt that anyone would even bother replacing it at that point. Links to the campaigns are just above in a prior post.

"Thank you so much for your patience!

Hello Backers, 

Thank you so much for your patience. To fully update you on the process, we have backtracked a bit due to the fact that we made a couple noticeable changes to the device, which has caused a delay in obtaining certification. We decided to go forward with a new and improved version for safety and convenience reasons since our last version had a couple things we wanted to fix.  The first thing we changed is the power button, as we went from a slide button to a push button.

The second thing we improved is the accuracy. On our original campaign, we indicated ±0.7 percent accuracy, but we have worked to lower that percentage. The third change that we implemented is a new PCB Board for improved resistance and PTC. The fourth change is the fuse box case. We changed the fuse box case to make it something that users could open. Previously it was undetachable, but now the fuse box is accessible. The last change that we made was to add a small LED light near the tips of the probes, just for safety and convenience. With these physical changes, we had to create new molds, which caused a delay in production and certification. We promise we are doing our best to prevent more delays. 

As for the smartphone application, we are currently taking care of some unforeseen complications that have come up with the iOS system. The Android system has been squared away, but we’ve had a couple of obstacles come up with finalizing the iOS version that we will soon figure out. We assure you that we are actively working to untangle these unforeseen issues and will keep the updates coming. Our intentions are not to come off as a scheme or as a fraud, and we apologize if we have come off that way whatsoever. We will implement increased efforts to address your concerns. Creating, manufacturing, and delivering a new product is not an easy feat, but we want to remain committed to efficiency, transparency, and dedication to delivering a great product. 

We are now anticipating to begin delivery by the end of September. We apologize sincerely for the delay and appreciate the patience and continued support. Please don’t hesitate to ask questions. We will try our best to stay in communication throughout the process. 

Best, 

The Allectrics Team"   


Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on August 01, 2018, 04:58:58 am
Safety? :-DD :-DD :-DD Please Darwin...DESTROY

Is that even an HRC fuse? Ask them what CAT rating it is...

Step 1: remove fuse cover after blowing fuse
Step 2: install new fuse
Step 3: forget about it like the idiot you are for buying this
Step 4: hold as usual (finger in fuse hole)
Step 5: insert into socket
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: KL27x on August 14, 2018, 12:28:24 am
This statement is comedy gold:

Quote
Our intentions are not to come off as a scheme or as a fraud


If people are actually funding this, it is successful at fundraising, in the least. I imagine some of the people working on this (if it's more than 1 guy) are extremely unhappy with 99% of the design decisions. But if they are simply following w/e brings in the bucks, it's kind of funny. 


Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on August 14, 2018, 05:04:21 pm
This statement is comedy gold:

Quote
Our intentions are not to come off as a scheme or as a fraud


If people are actually funding this, it is successful at fundraising, in the least. I imagine some of the people working on this (if it's more than 1 guy) are extremely unhappy with 99% of the design decisions. But if they are simply following w/e brings in the bucks, it's kind of funny.

It will 100% be a scam, whether intentional or not. There's no way in hell this crap will get certified for going onto the market (besides shady stuff on Ebay or AliExpress). Then what? Bet they just run off with the money and say "oops, sorry!" >:D
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: b_force on August 16, 2018, 12:58:46 am
You know what is so sad about this project?

The whole idea of having just a bluetooth multimeter (and using your phone as a screen) isn't that bad at all.
I would easily pay a couple of bucks having a few of these.

Just the way it's done is just so extremely depressing. :palm:
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on August 17, 2018, 01:22:12 am
This statement is comedy gold:
Quote
Our intentions are not to come off as a scheme or as a fraud

If people are actually funding this, it is successful at fundraising, in the least. I imagine some of the people working on this (if it's more than 1 guy) are extremely unhappy with 99% of the design decisions. But if they are simply following w/e brings in the bucks, it's kind of funny.

From what I understand they have been around for quite a while trying to get support for nothing more than a concept, by their own admission when the Kickstarter campaign started all they had was a mock up of a gadget with an over embellished marketing campaign and not even a working prototype and to date the backers still don't have proof of an operational device. Anyway, I was looking forward to them releasing something that resembled a test instrument but it now appears that they could be running multiple campaigns for a variety of things with nothing to show, I haven't looked into these as yet but apparently others have.


Redacted Name 2 days ago
The worry is that you seem to have multiple kick starter campaigns running at the same time and Nunalo, IOFIT & Zeroi all have comments relating too poor comms, poor delivery, incorrect orders etc. Your now even starting a new project Klinstem. This makes me feel you are constantly pushing out products just to continue your Kick starter funding process and don't manage to perfect any product as the next one takes over. Please process a refund as I've lost faith in the project with the current delays and lack of any finite info except for mock-ups of app and drawing of device.



Allectrics.Inc Creator 1 day ago
Redacted Name
Hi! Thanks for your question and your emphasis on trust. We understand what you are saying and also hold that same value. We are in no way concealing the fact that we are a company that has originated from South Korea. But we also want to acknowledge that we have opened accounts in the U.S. and have registered as an American corporation as well. Altos Business Group is a marketing consulting firm that is assisting us and other companies that you mentioned here and there on our campaign's marketing initiatives. We are extremely proud of being a Korean company with headquarters in South Korea. But we also have legal status in the U.S., and we are physically operating and running our campaign in Newport Beach, CA right now. We appreciate your dedication to transparency, but we would also appreciate if you would refrain from making claims and conjectures about us when you have no direct affiliation with our company.
Have a great rest of your day!    Vion Team

Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on August 17, 2018, 02:18:33 am
Are there links to the other Kickstarter campaigns they are supposedly running?
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on August 29, 2018, 05:51:17 pm
You know what is so sad about this project?

The whole idea of having just a bluetooth multimeter (and using your phone as a screen) isn't that bad at all.
I would easily pay a couple of bucks having a few of these.

Just the way it's done is just so extremely depressing. :palm:

Quite a few recent multimeters have a bluetooth interface actually. I've never found having to use a phone practical at all, but YMMV.


Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on August 31, 2018, 01:46:33 am
They have recently released another update with a few enhancements to this gadget and are also telling the Kickstarter backers that delivery will still be at the end of September, some of these Kickstarter backers are asking for a refund but their requests appear to be falling on deaf ears. For the Indiegogo backers delivery will now be at the end of the year or so they are being told.


Vion Comments.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/comments (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/comments)

Kickstarter Campaign
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter)

Indiegogo Campaign
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on August 31, 2018, 07:21:02 pm
OMFG :rant:

MORE RETARDATION...you can't measure a shorted CFL...because of the FUSE inside. :palm: :palm: :palm: :palm:
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: mzzj on August 31, 2018, 08:12:01 pm
Your Fluke can't do Facebook or Instagram.

With Vion you can boast to your friends that you are actually measuring a voltage above -gulp- 12 volts and lived to tell the story.
This is a killer app! (pun intended).  >:D


Now, seriously........
I believe this Vion thing will sell to the social media crowd, and the developer will be laughing all the way to the bank.
One of my friends has IRC plugin for HP6632B power supplies so that you can query or set the voltage/current over IRC  :-DD
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on August 31, 2018, 09:30:35 pm
Your Fluke can't do Facebook or Instagram.

With Vion you can boast to your friends that you are actually measuring a voltage above -gulp- 12 volts and lived to tell the story.
This is a killer app! (pun intended).  >:D


Now, seriously........
I believe this Vion thing will sell to the social media crowd, and the developer will be laughing all the way to the bank.
One of my friends has IRC plugin for HP6632B power supplies so that you can query or set the voltage/current over IRC  :-DD

please say that's connected to some poor guy's tongue... >:D
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on September 20, 2018, 07:31:39 am
It appears that this lot have done a couple of updates recently and now have something that resembles a mobile phone application or something, they also declared not long ago that shipping would start at the end of September which is more or less about now in case they weren't aware.
 :popcorn:

Update Number 19
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/posts/2292364 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/posts/2292364)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=526958;image)

Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on September 20, 2018, 10:55:50 am
The interface and readout at least looks decent. "Sensitivity", what the sam hell does that mean? Don't tell me this thing doesn't have auto-range, that would be stupid...oh wait... ::)

Also, again with "emductor", and a scope? Perfect for measuring mains noise >:D "Power out"...does that mean it will output voltage, turn off, or knock your power out because you shorted mains?
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on September 20, 2018, 11:58:39 am
I suspect that the "Res" button means the user needs resuscitation so the phone has the ability to call an ambulance, this will be handy for those people who think they can suddenly start dicking around with electricity when in reality they have no idea and should stay the fuck away from it.   :o

No min/max function that I could see either which is a big fail particularly for remote testing say from across the room or at the rear of a vehicle, the scope feature probably means graphing or trending but we won't really know until they release the application which was going to include a user manual.   ::)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on September 20, 2018, 02:50:10 pm
There is some sort of min max, the bottom says low and high. No button for them though.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on September 26, 2018, 04:01:25 am
Well spotted, that text is way too small for my eyes to see so I probably should have grabbed a screenshot and had a closer look, I was sure that the lower left was showing Hold and the lower right was indicating Low as in the battery is flat again.  ::)

Another look at their video linked below shows that the high and low are only displayed for a second or two at 0.29-0.31 so the readings are not held as would be the case with a dedicated Min-Max function, with a bit of luck they should be able to address and fix this feature in the application otherwise the high and low indication on this gadget is just plain silly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLIQe56wrqM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLIQe56wrqM)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on September 26, 2018, 03:49:34 pm
They won't fix it, they'll make it worse. "Just plain silly (and dangerous)" should be their motto!
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: edy on September 26, 2018, 11:20:04 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=526958;image)

What's an Emductor?  :-//

[EDIT.. Addition:]

Maybe this was answered before, but they show people testing batteries and it says "Good". Under what load are these batteries subjected to? I mean, you can get some voltage out of the battery but the minute you actually draw current from it, won't the voltage drop? How is this thing supposed to tell you anything but the most dead batteries? What about dying batteries, and what about down-cycling batteries from high current-draw devices like motorized toys to things like remote controls? I don't get it.

And then they show somebody checking continuity on a light bulb? What? To figure out if the bulb is good? Seriously? A $3 DMM with a buzzer can tell you this, plus looking at the damn filament through the clear glass as they show on their Kickstarter page. Or just screw it in and see if it turns on? Knowing who might buy this, I wouldn't be surprised if they try checking LED and CFL bulbs also like this... what a fail.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on September 27, 2018, 01:48:22 am
Quote
Or just screw it in and see if it turns on?

Then pop out to buy a new bulb and find it's the power supply or bulb socket that was the problem.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: xrunner on September 27, 2018, 01:20:22 pm
And then they show somebody checking continuity on a light bulb? What? To figure out if the bulb is good? Seriously? A $3 DMM with a buzzer can tell you this, ...

Aha - but a $3 DMM cannot receive a phone call!  :-DD
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 28, 2018, 01:06:44 pm
Anyone else hate this trend of "it works with your smartphone!" with so many products now days.  To me this is basically "we didn't want to make our own display electronics so you better have a phone that is compatible with our crappy software".
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: TERRA Operative on September 28, 2018, 02:53:13 pm
You know what is so sad about this project?

The whole idea of having just a bluetooth multimeter (and using your phone as a screen) isn't that bad at all.
I would easily pay a couple of bucks having a few of these.

Just the way it's done is just so extremely depressing. :palm:

You might be interested in the Mooshimeter then, It's the bluetooth meter done right.
I'll have to buy one myself one of these days..

https://moosh.im/mooshimeter/
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on October 03, 2018, 03:13:08 am
They stated a number of times previously that the gadgets would be shipped at the end of September but have now delayed shipping once again due to safety concerns. By their own admission there was a potential risk of a spark from the USB connection which could cause the battery to overheat and in turn result in the device melting or catching fire, they wanted to avoid this from happening.   :o ::)

Announcement Oct 2 2018
"Hey Backers,
We've received several messages surrounding shipping dates and we wanted to provide you with some information for you guys. But first, let us provide you with some good news first. We are almost close to finishing the Vion application! Here are a couple of sneak peek shots of what it will look like.

Now in regards to the shipping dates, as we were getting ready for mass production, our engineering team discovered that there was one component of VION that had to be adjusted. The distance between the USB charging port and the PCB board was too small which did not provide a good insulation distance. This meant that while the chances were very low, a spark could overheat the battery and cause it to melt or catch on fire. We wanted to avoid this from happening and so our team has been working hard to bring that risk to zero.

Therefore, we have had to adjust our molds before going into mass production and this has been the primary reason why we have not been able to ship yet. With that being said, our new expected shipping date is around the end of November. We understand that we have not kept our promise to ship for the third time and for those of you who support us regardless of recent happenings, we are eternally grateful. We promise that VION will not let you down. Our team will regularly post updates as soon as we get them. Thank you so much. Sincerely  VION Team
"

Vion Updates.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on October 03, 2018, 01:24:19 pm
:-DD

That is either the least significant safety issue that they found and they are clueless, or they know it's garbage and they threw out this excuse to the noobs that don't understand safety while they try to address the real issues.

Side note, whats the CAT ratings on that "mooshimeter"? I mean, I get the point of it is to be 100% isolated from human contact but still, better that it doesn't explode.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: janoc on October 03, 2018, 06:50:23 pm
Side note, whats the CAT ratings on that "mooshimeter"? I mean, I get the point of it is to be 100% isolated from human contact but still, better that it doesn't explode.

Don't think it has a CAT rating, but here are the specs:
https://moosh.im/mooshimeter/specs/ (https://moosh.im/mooshimeter/specs/)

EDIT: it has apparently CAT III rating:
http://www.gadgetexplained.com/2016/12/cat-iii-600v-mooshimeter-can-do.html (http://www.gadgetexplained.com/2016/12/cat-iii-600v-mooshimeter-can-do.html)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on October 08, 2018, 09:44:50 pm
So how is the project coming along? :popcorn:

Bluetooth and phone apps are so 2017. You guys should go for a blockchain-based multimeter or something.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: PointyOintment on October 10, 2018, 08:34:11 am
Quote from: Vion update
The distance between the USB charging port and the PCB board [sic] was too small which did not provide a good insulation distance.
So it has one‽

Quote from: Vion update
Therefore, we have had to adjust our molds
Since when does one mold a PCB or a USB port?


Side note, whats the CAT ratings on that "mooshimeter"? I mean, I get the point of it is to be 100% isolated from human contact but still, better that it doesn't explode.

Don't think it has a CAT rating, but here are the specs:
https://moosh.im/mooshimeter/specs/ (https://moosh.im/mooshimeter/specs/)

EDIT: it has apparently CAT III rating:
http://www.gadgetexplained.com/2016/12/cat-iii-600v-mooshimeter-can-do.html (http://www.gadgetexplained.com/2016/12/cat-iii-600v-mooshimeter-can-do.html)
IIRC, Mooshimeter's CAT III, but if you cut out the plastic that covers the SD card slot (so you can use the slot), that voids the certification. (It's probably no less safe, but I guess it wasn't safety tested in that configuration.)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: janoc on October 10, 2018, 07:31:36 pm

IIRC, Mooshimeter's CAT III, but if you cut out the plastic that covers the SD card slot (so you can use the slot), that voids the certification. (It's probably no less safe, but I guess it wasn't safety tested in that configuration.)

The original reason why they closed the slot was because there was water condensing there and the meter was then failing high voltage tests:
https://moosh.im/2014/07/safety-improvements/
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on November 08, 2018, 06:34:53 am
They have just released an updated notification declaring that they still don't have a working Android or IOS application and they are currently in the process of beta testing the Android version. They also hope to have an application ready by the time the meters are shipped which is completely ridiculous considering that these gadgets are utterly fucking useless without a correctly working application for the remote display.

 :-BROKE :wtf:

Vion Updates 21.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on November 08, 2018, 02:55:18 pm
So they are reassuring us that they are noobs and have no idea what they are doing. ::) :-DD
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on November 08, 2018, 05:51:07 pm
Welcome to the startup world. A world of endless debt (financial as well as technical) for the most part.
 :-+
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: janoc on November 10, 2018, 07:24:05 pm
Welcome to the startup world. A world of endless debt (financial as well as technical) for the most part.
 :-+

And wannabe entrepreneurs that draw something in Illustrator/Photoshop and then talk about "disrupting the industry" and "having to be a believer" as a magic incantation that makes VC part with their cash and somehow changes the laws of physics (or marketplace) to make whatever they dreamed out possible.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on November 26, 2018, 01:06:24 am
More delays and bullshit excuses, no surprises here folks.   :bullshit: :-BROKE :palm:
Vion Updates
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates)

(UPDATE 22 Nov 21 2018) WE'RE FINALLY READY TO BEGIN SHIPPING
"Hey Backers!
As you probably saw from the title, our team is finally ready to commence shipping within the next couple of weeks! We have resolved the issues that were stated before on our previous updates and the final version of Vion has been created. We are confident that the wait will be worth it for all of our backers. Here's a picture of the final product. We are currently in the midst of mass manufacturing. Once this process comes to a close, we will begin shipping immediately (still expected to be around the end of Novemeber). The corresponding app will be available on Google Playstore and Apple App Store by the time our backers receive their rewards. We completely understand all the frustrations you have felt throughout this process and as a result, our team has been working around the clock to make it up to you guys. Another update will be posted once the first batch of packages go out. Hope you all are excited!    Best,  Vion Team
"

(UPDATE 23 Nov 22 2018) Problems With Case Molds
"Hi Backers,
We were just notified by our manufacturing plant that there was something wrong with the molds for the cases. Due to this issue, we will, unfortunately, be delayed by about two weeks (shipping to begin the 3rd week of December) because we will have to make the necessary adjustments to the molds and restart the manufacturing process for the cases. To clarify once more, there are no issues with Vion. This problem is ONLY related to the case. Thank you for being patient with us. We will provide regular updates up until we complete shipping to every single one of our backers. Our Sincerest Apologies,  Vion Team
"


Image below from Update 22, Ready to ship you more bullshit excuses more like it.   :bullshit:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=580589;image)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: rsjsouza on November 26, 2018, 01:35:00 am
How come someone is ready to be shipping and finds out issues with the molds?!? This should become a master's thesis in BS engineering.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: xrunner on November 26, 2018, 02:11:26 am
To clarify once more, there are no issues with Vion. This problem is ONLY related to the case.

To clarify once more, there are no issues with the product. This problem is ONLY related to the product.

(https://i.stack.imgur.com/jiFfM.jpg)
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on November 26, 2018, 08:56:43 am
Someone should read all of the vion updates aloud then add glitch and voice morph sound effects to make it even funnier. ;D
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on December 20, 2018, 04:52:21 am
They have just put an app up on the Google Play Store but still haven't shipped anything and the Vion app needs a meter and vice versa, I don't know about the IOS application but do know that I am still no more an expert than I was prior to downloading it, perhaps it's fauly or something.   :-BROKE ::)

Vion Google Play.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ytech.vion&hl=en (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ytech.vion&hl=en)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=600856;image)


 
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: xrunner on December 20, 2018, 01:24:58 pm
They have just put an app up on the Google Play Store but still haven't shipped anything and the Vion app needs a meter and vice versa, I don't know about the IOS application but do know that I am still no more an expert than I was prior to downloading it, perhaps it's fauly or something.   :-BROKE ::)

You have to have the meter too. Your brain won't be programmed to be an expert until then. But if you have both, the Vion operator will send your brain the following code plug -

"Module 51333: Electrical Engineering Expert"

Shouldn't take more than a few seconds Muttley.   :-+

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TS68mTgxcjA/THoPrdv6LxI/AAAAAAAAC2Y/WbZ4R5502X8/s320/tank-the-operator2.jpg)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: julianhigginson on December 21, 2018, 12:54:45 am
WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
HAPPY HOLIDAYS, VION SUPPORTERS!
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: amyk on December 23, 2018, 05:49:33 am
An emductor is obviously the opposite of an inductor. ::)

Would be very interesting to see how they would deign a shunt through the springy cable which would be required for current measurements.
Best (un?)intentional typo of this thread:

deign (verb): do something that one considers to be beneath one's dignity.

:-DD
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: beanflying on December 23, 2018, 07:06:52 am
I thought they had already done a bunk with the $$ long ago. Maybe their $400k is running out and the delay is to allow them to make meters and sell them retail or find yet another platform before the backers still don't get theirs made with the profits of those sales to top off the scam.  :bullshit:

Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: beanflying on December 23, 2018, 07:25:10 am
10 minutes of non sleuth work.

Same principal HANJIN PARK Same Address 1501 WESTCLIFF DR. #307 NEWPORT BEACH CA 92660 runs this company https://www.altosbusiness.com/ (https://www.altosbusiness.com/) also owns this company https://www.openceed.com/ (https://www.openceed.com/) wonder what his take on the deals was and if they are the real issue with non delivery and over promises? Principal of Vion is the same for this company ALLECTRICS, INC at the same address .....

Vion for $400k

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rayo-the-ultimate-bicycle-tail-light#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rayo-the-ultimate-bicycle-tail-light#/) only $150k here
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rayo-the-ultimate-bicycle-tail-light#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rayo-the-ultimate-bicycle-tail-light#/) and another $150k here.

Pattern forming?
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on December 29, 2018, 03:43:34 am
After already mucking the backers around numerous times they have now fabricated a new schedule and nominated the end of January as the final shipping date after previously assuring backers that shipping would begin the third week of December, this is past ridiculous considering the campaign initially declared that shipping would be in June 2018.

Vion Updates
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates)


(Update 24 Dec 29 2018) Announcement
 "To our beloved backers, 
We wanted to sincerely express our thanks and gratitude for showing our project so much love. Our team understands that there is no excuse for such a delay. For the past few updates, we have not given our backers a detailed timeline on our progress. Please refer to the table below for the final shipping schedule. We hope that all of you will have a Happy New Year and that you as well as your loved ones will be filled with blessings!

1. Schedule
- January 11th: Final Sample Production Complete
- January 18th: Finished Goods Receipt
- January 20th: Final address check with backers
- January 25th: Product Assembly Completion
- January 31st: Delivery Begins

2. Current Progress 
1) Completion of mold – Confirmation of the exterior material of the product 
2) Purchase of materials 
3) Package design complete 
4) Calibration parts are undergoing manufacturing 
5) Final negotiation completed with logistics company for delivery

3. Miscellaneous updates
1) The Vion application has been uploaded to the Google Playstore and Apple App Store for further testing. - Search with the term “VION” (However, without Vion the functions are limited) - After our final sample production is completed (1/11) we will update the app again 
2) We will send another email to confirm our backer’s address / check for the delivery address on 1/20.
Once again, we would like to thank all of you for your undying patience. Thank you so much.  Vion Team"
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: edy on January 01, 2019, 02:56:17 pm
The longer they delay shipping the longer we are from people becoming "experts" and electrocuting themselves.  :-+ Like these images on their website, such as this guy who blew his multimeter because he was in the wrong setting and had no clue what kind of voltages he was working with (and the hardhat, vest and beard automatically make him trustworthy, just like a lab-coat makes people look like doctors or smart, to make things more believable):

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/020/482/918/f80b1bb804d7400379d7e8ea183ef65a_original.gif?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&w=680&fit=max&v=1520477387&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=fc0e1f0b49db3faaaa7d12fa8c0711a2)

Or this lady who thinks she's now an "expert" because sticking our probes into a lightbulb socket is the first step and safest and only way to know what is going on with this lamp. Look at all the pretty colors on the probe distracting me and confusing me at the same time just before I am about to kill myself and fall off the ladder...  :palm::

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/020/482/459/95da5aaf3f8051c2518aab2f819e83b7_original.gif?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&w=680&fit=max&v=1520473819&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=19571ba6e6396fa4bd17c9e037848bc8)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: xrunner on January 01, 2019, 04:19:41 pm
Lady is doing a dangerous maneuver, sticking metal probes into a socket that she can't see what's touching what. Nice way to weld the Vion probe tips together.

 :--
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on January 01, 2019, 05:14:32 pm
I still don't see how they'll ever be able to legally sell this POS (might explain the real cause of delays). It is clearly a stupid and inconvenient deathtrap of wank designed solely to darwinize. Not that I have anything against darwinizing hipsters/yuppies ( >:D ) but the waste of money and resources is disgusting. :--
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: ebastler on January 01, 2019, 08:45:43 pm
1. Schedule
- January 11th: Final Sample Production Complete
- January 18th: Finished Goods Receipt
- January 25th: Product Assembly Completion
- January 31st: Delivery Begins

2. Current Progress 
1) Completion of mold – Confirmation of the exterior material of the product 
[...]

Wow, a full week between receiving the "finished goods" (that must refer to the production samples?), and having the full production batch done. And they have not even seen any molded parts yet, but only decided on the material and "completed the mold" itself?

I see the next excuse for a delay coming...
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on January 01, 2019, 09:37:36 pm
I see the next excuse for a delay coming...
The consistency of their poor excuses is about the only thing that can be relied upon with this campaign, and the tolerance of the backers beggars belief. Based on their history they should probably alter that last schedule to nominate the 30th of February as the final completion and satisfaction date.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on February 01, 2019, 01:12:31 am
 :palm:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=640129;image)

Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Kean on February 01, 2019, 01:24:43 am
What a surprise!
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: xrunner on February 01, 2019, 01:28:31 am
FAIL

EPIC FAIL

What's the next one Muttley?

SUPER MASSIVE FAIL?

 :-DD
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: rsjsouza on February 01, 2019, 03:12:32 am
Too painful to watch...
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: ataradov on February 01, 2019, 03:31:11 am
Some people there are so delusional that they are actually asking for new features:
Quote
I don’t know if the hardware will permit this option/idea, but it would be very interesting to add a « scope meter » to « Vion » or perhaps in a future upgrade?

I think this is a great idea and warrants another year of "development" :).
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on February 01, 2019, 08:59:02 am
They still haven't delivered anything to date and are already contemplating Vion 2.0 and some other silly products which are shown on their new website. The site linked below also has the manual for Vion 1.0 in PDF but it looks to be in Korean and I cannot convert or translate it to English, it does have a few pictures though.

VionLab
http://vionlab.co.kr (http://vionlab.co.kr)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: xrunner on February 01, 2019, 01:08:20 pm
Appears that a scope/logic probe function will be available, and what is the display on screen at the top? The circuit board with test points shown in red?  :-//

VION 2.0 (http://vionlab.co.kr/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/01/103x209xUntitled3.png.pagespeed.ic.D-FRQ5_HHg.png)

(http://vionlab.co.kr/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/01/144x192xUntitled2.png.pagespeed.ic.MtnCQAQkPO.png)

(http://vionlab.co.kr/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/01/103x209xUntitled3.png.pagespeed.ic.D-FRQ5_HHg.png)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on February 01, 2019, 08:14:33 pm
Quote
The circuit board with test points shown in red?

Sounds like a good wheeze. Seriously. Be better if it could show the circuit diagram but a photo from within the app would be dead simple, and once that's in place importing a jpeg or pdf of the circuit should be a breeze.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on February 11, 2019, 10:48:57 pm
After once again failing to meet their own schedule and then treating the backers with utter contempt by not providing a response or reason they have just pulled out the "but it's now the Chinese holiday" excuse. This reply came only after one of the backers threatened to make a formal group complaint to Kickstarter, it's all in the comments and update sections along with every other excuse they could possibly dream up.

Vion Comments.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/comments (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/comments)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: xrunner on February 12, 2019, 01:24:11 am
Wouldn't you know it - just when they were going to ship - a damn holiday!  :-DD

Now it'll take a couple of months for the team to get all caught up again.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on February 12, 2019, 02:48:22 am
I'm confused: don't they have a product approaching production? I mean, faking the plastics and all that stuff shown in the photos is pretty much like doing the real work anyway, so isn't this still on the go but just badly delayed?

Whether it performs is a different matter, but it sure looks to me like they're making them.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: ataradov on February 12, 2019, 02:50:14 am
I'm confused: don't they have a product approaching production? I mean, faking the plastics and all that stuff shown in the photos is pretty much like doing the real work anyway, so isn't this still on the go but just badly delayed?
It looks like they have version 2 on a way, so they may have redirected all resources towards that. There is pretty much no penalty for not delivering on KS, so why bother?
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on February 12, 2019, 03:03:21 am
Now it'll take a couple of months for the team to get all caught up again.
If that's the case then their next update should be on or around April fools day which sounds about right, then their special Easter announcement will follow shortly after. I suspect they are just milking the Indiegogo campaign for all it's worth which involves stringing out the Kickstarter supporters for as long as they can.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on February 12, 2019, 07:12:06 am
What are the odds they run out of money before they ship anything...
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: ebastler on February 12, 2019, 09:15:29 am
What are the odds they run out of money before they ship anything...

That's what I thought. With various mold revisions, compliance testing iterations (?), and things taking much longer than they had expected -- will they even be able to fund volume production, beyond the test batch of 100? Maybe trying to find additional money is what is really slowing things down at the moment?
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on February 12, 2019, 11:46:17 am
That's what I thought. With various mold revisions, compliance testing iterations (?), and things taking much longer than they had expected -- will they even be able to fund volume production, beyond the test batch of 100? Maybe trying to find additional money is what is really slowing things down at the moment?

That's common as mud for crowd funding campaigns, so wouldn't surprise me.

Did any of these 100 test units ship to anyone?
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Kean on February 15, 2019, 05:00:44 am
I found it pretty funny that they show a photo with boxes of components on reels with a caption of "Completed Electronic Parts".
Technically correct I guess, but pretty misleading.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on March 15, 2019, 01:16:39 am
Finally another update, insert yawn emoticon.  :=\

Vion Update #26_15/03/19
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates)


"This is Yong-Man Kim, CEO of Vion.
I wanted to take this opportunity to thank everyone for backing Vion and to acknowledge the delay in shipping times. Your patience has finally paid off. Our official shipping date has been scheduled for 4/4.

After completing the purchase of electronic components for mass production, we conducted four trials over the course of a month and finally began the production of 6000 units. The finished product (pin, fuse clip, cable) and battery have finally arrived. Starting from 3/11 (Monday), we will start PCB production, proceed to the parts assembly, test the settings, fusion of case assembly, and finishing off with final packaging for 3 weeks. We will try our best to reduce the amount of time it will take to complete this process as much as possible.

Now that we are in the final stages of delivery we will take the time to confirm your shipping address one last time. Please send us your name, phone number, address, backer number, and memo to (help@vionlab.com) via email. We will ship your reward to the address you send us. For backers who do not send us an address confirmation email, we will send out messages to your Kickstarter account sometime between 3/15 ~ 3/20. If the address and/or phone number you initially listed on our first backer survey is incorrect then please let us know via email and not through comments. If you do not receive anything from us by 3/20 then please check all of your inboxes, including your Kickstarter DMs.

Thank you for sticking with us despite our many delays. On behalf of everyone at Vion, I would like extend our gratitude and thanks. Your belief in Vion is what allows us to work hard each and every single day. We look forward to successfully wrapping up our campaign and making you, our backers, happy and satisfied with Vion!  Best,  Yong-Man Kim, Vion CEO"


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=677349;image)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: rsjsouza on March 15, 2019, 01:25:40 am
Finally another update, insert yawn emoticon.  :=\

Vion Update #26_15/03/19
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates)


"This is Yong-Man Kim, CEO of Vion.
I wanted to take this opportunity to thank everyone for backing Vion and to acknowledge the delay in shipping times. Your patience has finally paid off. Our official shipping date has been scheduled for 4/4.
Why don't they announce that "our official shipping date is TODAY!" :-DD

After completing the purchase of electronic components for mass production, we conducted four trials over the course of a month and finally began the production of 6000 units. The finished product (pin, fuse clip, cable) and battery have finally arrived. Starting from 3/11 (Monday), we will start PCB production, proceed to the parts assembly, test the settings, fusion of case assembly, and finishing off with final packaging for 3 weeks. We will try our best to reduce the amount of time it will take to complete this process as much as possible.
Funny how they say they began the production of 6000 units and then say they will start PCB production next Monday?!?

That is really a MSc in BS.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on March 15, 2019, 03:15:28 am
Quote
say they began the production of 6000 units and then say they will start PCB production next Monday

A PCB is not the entire product. Thus other parts of the product than the PCB could be in production before the PCB is.

Also, might be a language thing. Perhaps buying parts ("pin, fuse clip, cable") for 6K units is classed as 'production' and, as noted, they've already arrived.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on March 15, 2019, 05:27:58 am
Finally another update, insert yawn emoticon.  :=\

Vion Update #26_15/03/19
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates)


"This is Yong-Man Kim, CEO of Vion.
I wanted to take this opportunity to thank everyone for backing Vion and to acknowledge the delay in shipping times. Your patience has finally paid off. Our official shipping date has been scheduled for 4/4.

After completing the purchase of electronic components for mass production, we conducted four trials over the course of a month and finally began the production of 6000 units. The finished product (pin, fuse clip, cable) and battery have finally arrived. Starting from 3/11 (Monday), we will start PCB production, proceed to the parts assembly, test the settings, fusion of case assembly, and finishing off with final packaging for 3 weeks. We will try our best to reduce the amount of time it will take to complete this process as much as possible.

Now that we are in the final stages of delivery we will take the time to confirm your shipping address one last time. Please send us your name, phone number, address, backer number, and memo to (help@vionlab.com) via email. We will ship your reward to the address you send us. For backers who do not send us an address confirmation email, we will send out messages to your Kickstarter account sometime between 3/15 ~ 3/20. If the address and/or phone number you initially listed on our first backer survey is incorrect then please let us know via email and not through comments. If you do not receive anything from us by 3/20 then please check all of your inboxes, including your Kickstarter DMs.

Thank you for sticking with us despite our many delays. On behalf of everyone at Vion, I would like extend our gratitude and thanks. Your belief in Vion is what allows us to work hard each and every single day. We look forward to successfully wrapping up our campaign and making you, our backers, happy and satisfied with Vion!  Best,  Yong-Man Kim, Vion CEO"


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=677349;image)

Can't wait for the reviews!
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: rsjsouza on March 15, 2019, 10:51:34 am
Quote
say they began the production of 6000 units and then say they will start PCB production next Monday

A PCB is not the entire product. Thus other parts of the product than the PCB could be in production before the PCB is.

Also, might be a language thing. Perhaps buying parts ("pin, fuse clip, cable") for 6K units is classed as 'production' and, as noted, they've already arrived.
It could be a language barrier, but this product does not have elaborate mechanics surrounding its main PCB to assert that production started when parts arrived or the enclosure or the cables are ready to be assembled - IMO this is a dishonest statement.

Oh well... Not that I have a vested interest in this anyways but, just like Dave, I can't wait for the reviews.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on March 15, 2019, 11:04:57 am
Can't wait for the reviews!
You will have to Join the queue but don't hold your breath because these Vion fools don't know how to use a calendar nor keep to their own schedule. Anyway, I had a bad feeling about this gadget so never ordered one and don't know anybody who did, those who have probably wouldn't admit to it anyhow for fear of ridicule.   
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on March 15, 2019, 04:55:31 pm
Quote
those who have probably wouldn't admit to it anyhow for fear of ridicule

That's one of the disadvantages of the derisive mob mentality that takes over these threads at times.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: xrunner on March 15, 2019, 06:30:58 pm
Don't know if the meter works but the packaging is pretty.  ;D
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on April 09, 2019, 08:22:14 am
Vion Update #27_09/04/19
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates)

In Summary
More excuses, further delays and another schedule.   :--

Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on April 09, 2019, 09:33:14 am
Vion Update #27_09/04/19
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates)

In Summary
More excuses, further delays and another schedule.   :--

The test jigs look legit:
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/024/700/685/20d7c9077af279111a10bd531ef4908b_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&w=639&fit=max&v=1554749571&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=7de673b38077fc4580672d65a698a550)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on April 09, 2019, 04:23:59 pm
OH HELL NO! :scared: I wouldn't trust this shit on 120V let alone 650! No way it could ever handle it, most DMMs max out at 600V some higher models make it to 1000V though.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: taydin on April 10, 2019, 10:31:26 am
I bet if you look at the average age of the backers, you'll find that these are folks in their 20's that basically see a smartphone as one of their limbs :D
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on April 23, 2019, 01:13:05 pm
Vion Update #28_23/04/19
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/updates)

In Summary
They have just stated on Kickstarter that shipping of the Vion multimeters will commence at the end of this week, hopefully some user reviews will soon follow, lest we forget.   :o ::)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: ebastler on April 23, 2019, 04:40:42 pm
They have just stated on Kickstarter that shipping of the Vion multimeters will commence at the end of this week

And as of today, the most recent backer comment on Kickstarter is:
Quote
I don't believe it yet
::)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on April 23, 2019, 06:46:07 pm
Quote
hopefully some user reviews will soon follow

(https://media.giphy.com/media/5wMc8SZ211NC/giphy.gif)

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-17-2015/90DPZT.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/lszwFWD.gif?noredirect)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: ataradov on May 09, 2019, 05:59:49 am
Well, there is another delay (surprised?). Now there are problems with fake components from China. The new story obviously makes no logical sense.

Looks like they are running out of viable lies. So let's all chip in a bit. I think "warehouse burned down" is the next logical step.

But people in the comments are all supportive. Stockholm syndrome is strong with them.

I just noticed that they only scammed out ~$200K. Why do they even bother replying at this point?
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: JackJones on May 09, 2019, 07:26:02 am
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/posts/2502776 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/posts/2502776)

Quote
9260 parts were ordered via AliExpress, 9360 were ordered from a different vendor and have been functioning properly

Ordering your components from AliExpress is never a good sign!

They did post pictures of the damage, it looks like some resistors were burned.

 (https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/025/070/518/19021ac3ed14bd1621ca4efb14966a55_original.png?ixlib=rb-2.0.0&w=639&fit=max&v=1557355773&auto=format&gif-q=50&lossless=true&s=cb090c0c3c0c8d66abf35d196b9cd11f)

I guess the transistors failed short and cooked the resistors? The larger one is connected to the collector of a high voltage PNP. I'm not sure what they're switching and why it would cause damage to the resistors though, would love to see a schematic.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: ataradov on May 09, 2019, 07:29:24 am
I guess the transistors failed short and cooked the resistors?
No need to guess, they just fried a random resistor to get a picture to justify another delay.

What is the scenario in which you find out this bug in already packaged product sitting in the shipper's warehouse?

Presumably all devices passed the test before being packaged.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: JackJones on May 09, 2019, 07:37:43 am
I wouldn't be surprised if that were true.

The transistor on the lower right hand picture looks pretty crusty. Almost like it has been handsoldered, compared to the one on the left. It doesn't seem to be sitting quite straight either..
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on May 10, 2019, 12:56:04 am
They stated back in the February update that the Vion case is "fusion bonded", I hope they have some non-destructive means to open every housing, repair the faults and stick the thing back together in accordance with the certification.   :palm:

Update #25 Extract
"1.Progress Report
1-1. FCC, J-MIC Certification Complete
1-2. CE Receipt of Certification
1-3. Mold Modification : Vion is fusion bonded according to CE certification standard. The CE certification agency in Korea has revised the mold (6th grade) under the condition that 'the product side should be 100% bonded.
"
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on May 10, 2019, 06:27:32 am
Wow, that's even worse POS design than expected. Are those the input resistors that are a millimeter or less away from that metal button and it's contacts (on the LV side)? :scared: No way this actually passed any certs if that's the case.

Of coarse they got fake components now (not like it already wasn't just a toy made from back-ally junk), they are idiots and just keep bumbling around having fun munching money while having no real clue about anything. Meanwhile the Darwin candidates are throwing the money at them. :palm:

Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on May 10, 2019, 06:42:57 am
In Summary
They have just stated on Kickstarter that shipping of the Vion multimeters will commence at the end of this week, hopefully some user reviews will soon follow, lest we forget.   :o ::)

Please tell me someone on here ordered one just for kicks  ;D
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on May 10, 2019, 07:07:50 am
Please tell me someone on here ordered one just for kicks  ;D

For those who are interested in getting one of these gadgets they were flogging them on Indiegogo as well at one point, I don't know if it is still the case.   :-BROKE

Indiegogo Campaign
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on May 10, 2019, 07:25:19 am
Quote
Are those the input resistors that are a millimeter or less away from that metal button and it's contacts (on the LV side)? :scared: No way this actually passed any certs if that's the case.

The switch is probably actuated via a plastic button (don't know with this, but that's what happens on some mains plugs with smarts). That would keep the user away from danger, so wouldn't that pass certification?
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: beanflying on May 10, 2019, 07:42:06 am
https://www.gofundme.com/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter (https://www.gofundme.com/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter)

(http://megaanswers.com/images_uploaded/How%20does%20the%20human%20body%20react%20to%20a%20severe%20electric%20shock.jpg)

Because I think we want all want to know :-DD

Four Pack to be ordered when the target hits $100 as I am not made of money but I will pickup the balance from there if there is a shortfall all in the interests of knowledge and a giggle.

Please forgive me Universe for supporting them......  :palm:

Dave and Joe can do with them as they like, give them away use them as garden stakes feed into an industrial shredder or whatever. The reason for a pair each is it will take destructive means to peek under the hood.

No I am not in NZ and can't seem to be able to change it  :-//
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on May 10, 2019, 10:21:47 am
Quote
Dave and Joe can do with them as they like, give them away use them as garden stakes feed into an industrial shredder or whatever. The reason for a pair each is it will take destructive means to peek under the hood.
Based on their prior history of not keeping to a promised schedule I suspect we will have plenty of time to save up and contribute to the cause. Also, I remember Joe saying that he doesn't use or own a smart phone which could be a problem if function testing of this gadget is required.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: beanflying on May 10, 2019, 10:25:41 am
Quote
Dave and Joe can do with them as they like, give them away use them as garden stakes feed into an industrial shredder or whatever. The reason for a pair each is it will take destructive means to peek under the hood.
Based on their prior history of delays and not keeping to a promised schedule I suspect we will have plenty of time to save up and contribute to the cause. Also, I remember Joe saying that he doesn't use or own a smart phone which could be a problem for function testing this gadget.

I will drop Joe a PM. Just an idea to spread the fun around and he is appropriate as I am sure he can make smoke come out with ease ;) Even if he doesn't take it on the meters can be sent around to others interested as I have allowed a few $ for freighting. Any excess funds raised should be spent on Chocolate for Dave just because.

Jumping in the Idegogo campaign may yield meters by Christmas but which year may be the question >:D
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on May 10, 2019, 02:45:04 pm
Quote
Are those the input resistors that are a millimeter or less away from that metal button and it's contacts (on the LV side)? :scared: No way this actually passed any certs if that's the case.

The switch is probably actuated via a plastic button (don't know with this, but that's what happens on some mains plugs with smarts). That would keep the user away from danger, so wouldn't that pass certification?

Small plasitic button between you and potentially 480V three phase mains (or whatever dinguses stick it into). Also, if it arcs over and shorts out internally, the arc flash would cause it to explode just like cheap dollar Chinese meters though worse due to it's pencil probe shape (much higher chance of hand loss). :-BROKE It could also be a button to ground so connected to the USB port.

Plus, did you see their horrid excuse for a fuse holder earlier? Oh hell no...as bean said, shock hazard. :scared:

EDIT: And smart sockets should have the HV and LV properly isolated.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Kean on May 10, 2019, 08:03:06 pm
Please tell me someone on here ordered one just for kicks  ;D

I only backed for $1 as I really didn't want one of these but wanted to watch the train wreck.

I've left a comment asking about the "100% bonding" and how that is going to affect this rework.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: ataradov on May 22, 2019, 09:53:53 pm
Well, it looks like they have missed their new deadline, and it looks like it is time for them to grab the money (whatever is left) and run.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: xrunner on May 22, 2019, 10:35:56 pm
Well, it looks like they have missed their new deadline, and it looks like it is time for them to grab the money (whatever is left) and run.

(https://www.kinolorber.com/media_cache/images/full/738329216573.jpg)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Kean on June 12, 2019, 02:42:05 am
In the latest update they say they will start shipping again this week (a year late), but they've pretty much given up on a bunch of functionality...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/posts/2502781 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/posts/2502781)
Quote
We took a gamble on upgrading the product as much as possible before sending out the rewards. However, after additional tests and experiments we have found the performance and accuracy of Vion is lower than it was initially.

If you find this to be unacceptable, then we will issue you a full refund. Please email to help@vionlab.com for the refund.

1) The maximum measurement of AC volt is up to 380V, not 500V.

2) Capacitor, inductor, diode test function and 1.5V, 3V voltage output are not available.

3. The Vion App is unstable and will be corrected soon (takes about 1 month)

1) If you do not reconnect after using a one time connection in the app, please close it completely and try again.

2) Some of the features on the iOS version are not functioning properly

3) The option menu of scope and storage function will be reinforced.

(Interesting numbering system they use in their list. I presume the second set of 3 items are sub-points of the first item 3.)

As you'd expect, lots of backers want refunds.  I wonder how that will work out...  I've seen before that Paypal doesn't work for this (they often block the Paypal account), Kickstarter can't help with refunds this late after the campaign, and most other international money transfer methods are too complex/costly.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on June 12, 2019, 05:00:14 am
In the latest update they say they will start shipping again this week (a year late), but they've pretty much given up on a bunch of functionality...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/posts/2502781 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/posts/2502781)
Quote
We took a gamble on upgrading the product as much as possible before sending out the rewards. However, after additional tests and experiments we have found the performance and accuracy of Vion is lower than it was initially.

If you find this to be unacceptable, then we will issue you a full refund. Please email to help@vionlab.com for the refund.

1) The maximum measurement of AC volt is up to 380V, not 500V.

2) Capacitor, inductor, diode test function and 1.5V, 3V voltage output are not available.

3. The Vion App is unstable and will be corrected soon (takes about 1 month)

1) If you do not reconnect after using a one time connection in the app, please close it completely and try again.

2) Some of the features on the iOS version are not functioning properly

3) The option menu of scope and storage function will be reinforced.

Wow, impressive list!
So it basically doesn't practically work is what they are saying.
Anyone who doesn't get a refund is a fool.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: ruffy91 on June 12, 2019, 05:12:05 am
This is a Kickstarter campaign, not a preorder.. So if you spent money you trusted them to deliver what they promised.
The money collected wasn't for the finished product but for them so they could try to do what they promised.

Gesendet von meinem MI 9 mit Tapatalk

Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on June 12, 2019, 05:16:38 am
Based on their recent admission this thread will now be moved to the Dodgy Products section where it probably belonged all along.   :-BROKE
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on June 12, 2019, 06:53:34 am
Same update in IGG as well. No backer responses yet.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/)

The thing is, most people back these things and forget all about it and don't read updates. You can seriously just refund the dozens that see the update and want refunds and then just pocket a good lot of the money. I'm surprised they are even going to bother to ship any (though they haven't actually shipped them yet), they know the product doesn't really do what they intended.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on June 12, 2019, 06:58:05 am
As you'd expect, lots of backers want refunds.  I wonder how that will work out...  I've seen before that Paypal doesn't work for this (they often block the Paypal account), Kickstarter can't help with refunds this late after the campaign, and most other international money transfer methods are too complex/costly.

IIRC there was no limit on when I could refund people for the 121GW meter, and I had to for shipments that didn't make it, I think some were a year later that I refunded them.
Only problem was if their credit card had changed then it failed and I had to do it manually via PayPal.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on June 12, 2019, 07:28:30 am
Quote
no limit on when I could refund people for the 121GW meter, and I had to for shipments that didn't make it

Interesting! I had a kickstarter that didn't arrive after shipping, and I never got the product or a refund even after complaining. Far too late to chase it up now, though, and it wasn't a huge amount.

Quote
I'm surprised they are even going to bother to ship any

They seem to have bits to get rid of, so why not ship? It doesn't look to me like it set out to be a scam, just people that got out of their depth. The idea may not have been practical and the product not achievable, but at least they had a go instead of sitting behind a screen rubbishing everyone elses projects.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on June 12, 2019, 07:49:19 am
Quote
no limit on when I could refund people for the 121GW meter, and I had to for shipments that didn't make it

Interesting! I had a kickstarter that didn't arrive after shipping, and I never got the product or a refund even after complaining. Far too late to chase it up now, though, and it wasn't a huge amount.

They probably just didn't care. I cared.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on June 12, 2019, 07:54:21 am
Just checked, and yes, I can still issue refunds to any 121GW backer. But as I said it only works if both credit cards (mine and theirs) is still valid. I don't believe it actually reverses the transaction, it just creates a new transaction to debit my CC and charge theirs. This is probably a deal KS have with the CC companies.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on June 12, 2019, 08:01:11 am
Quote
no limit on when I could refund people for the 121GW meter, and I had to for shipments that didn't make it

Interesting! I had a kickstarter that didn't arrive after shipping, and I never got the product or a refund even after complaining. Far too late to chase it up now, though, and it wasn't a huge amount.

They probably just didn't care. I cared.

OK! (and yes, that's probably the case) I think I misunderstood your 'could' for 'should'.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on June 12, 2019, 08:26:37 am
They seem to have bits to get rid of, so why not ship? It doesn't look to me like it set out to be a scam, just people that got out of their depth.
They should not ship a device to people if the integrity or reliability of that device is questionable. They just declared that the remote application is not reliable so if the end user happens to be testing mains voltages (as shown in their marketing campaign) and the remote display shows 0.00 instead of say lost connection then the result could be shocking.   :o ::) 

Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on June 12, 2019, 08:42:07 am
Yes, one can imagine lots of scary scenarios, just as one could about almost anything at all. Does the app say lost connection or not? Maybe it's best to find out the reality before basing a trashing on some particular point? Hey, maybe they could just shove a note in: don't use on >50V.

Mind, they'd only have to do so for a month (how long they say it'll take to fix), and it sure seems like that would occur before they start shipping, going from recent history  :-DD
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on June 16, 2019, 04:50:34 am
I don't have an Indiegogo account but just noticed that one of the backers recently stated that the ability to purchase the Vion Multimeter on Indiegogo has now been removed. I cannot confirm either way but perhaps somebody here with an account could verify.   :o ::)

Vion Indiegogo
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/comments (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/comments)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/vion-the-worlds-silliest-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=764010;image)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on June 16, 2019, 10:12:33 am
I have an account and wasn't offered a perk, whereas on a different project I was. Didn't want to go further and purchase stuff I don't want just to prove  a point :)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Zero999 on June 17, 2019, 10:29:44 am
They seem to have bits to get rid of, so why not ship? It doesn't look to me like it set out to be a scam, just people that got out of their depth. The idea may not have been practical and the product not achievable, but at least they had a go instead of sitting behind a screen rubbishing everyone elses projects.
Why are you defending them? They should have realised their idea wasn't practical much earlier on, shut the project down and refunded everyone. I suspect they realised they couldn't do this awhile ago, but have been dishonest about it, rather than admitting failure. It's now all about damage limitation, rather than fulfilling their obligations to their backers.
Title: Re: Vion : The Worlds Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Yansi on June 17, 2019, 10:34:01 am
USB charging port
Yeah, that's what you want, a multimeter that only works when two devices are charged (meter + phone)  ::)

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/020/471/695/6d2eaa4c99f6da2d57d899772fdd8ba5_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1520402021&auto=format&q=92&s=c8af640bc43c8fcd784fb5bd0b46c170)

Just wondering, what it'll do when plugged in to a charger and probes stuck into a mains panel.

This device should probably be not even allowed to sell, as I strongly doubt any safety isolation exists between the charge port and the probes!  :--
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on June 17, 2019, 11:05:32 am
Quote
Why are you defending them?

Maybe because they need it - this entire thread assumes they are scammers who will just run off with the money and never intended to make the thing anyway. Instead, as I tried to point out, they are actual humans with the same foibles as you and me, who no doubt really wanted it to work. It hasn't gone that way, but sometimes shit happens you know and people don't realise they are out of their depth until the water is going up their nose. That's rather different to being a scam from the start, and no-one is immune to cockups like that.

And, like I said, from behind a screen this sort of thing looks piss easy. Try to do it in real life - even just coming up with a product, never mind following up with actually selling and making it - and it's a lot more difficult.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on June 17, 2019, 12:33:11 pm
Quote
Why are you defending them?

Maybe because they need it - this entire thread assumes they are scammers who will just run off with the money and never intended to make the thing anyway. Instead, as I tried to point out, they are actual humans with the same foibles as you and me, who no doubt really wanted it to work. It hasn't gone that way, but sometimes shit happens you know and people don't realise they are out of their depth until the water is going up their nose. That's rather different to being a scam from the start, and no-one is immune to cockups like that.

And, like I said, from behind a screen this sort of thing looks piss easy. Try to do it in real life - even just coming up with a product, never mind following up with actually selling and making it - and it's a lot more difficult.

Except it's an incredibly stupid idea that preys on IoT smartphone gadget hipsters (to electrocute themselves). Test gear are not toys as these guys appear to make it. Any sane person would see that the idea for this was a no-go/rediculous from the start therefore they are idiots/nutters who don't need defending, they need to be taught a lesson. It falls under the same catagory of BS as crap from Elon Musk, except he's too rich to steal other people's money (though he should still be slapped for every dumb idea he spouts to the public). ::) How long into this did their engineering team go "this is a really bad idea" and they just decided to start posting about BS delays just to keep getting money? My guess is not long as zero said.

I'm building an app-enabled fire extinguisher. No-no, it's great idea, I actually think it'll work. Now give me half a mil. >:D
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on June 17, 2019, 12:52:06 pm
Quote
he same catagory of BS as crap from Elon Musk

Who designed, makes and sells electric cars. And also successfully (most times!) launches and lands space craft. Yep, certainly in the realms of 'obviously not going to work' bullshit, that.

There are legitimate arguments about how well some of his stuff performs (like the tunnels, and the autopilot), but one thing you can't deny is that he got off his arse and did it.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: mikerj on June 17, 2019, 02:45:07 pm
Quote
he same catagory of BS as crap from Elon Musk

Who designed, makes and sells electric cars. And also successfully (most times!) launches and lands space craft. Yep, certainly in the realms of 'obviously not going to work' bullshit, that.

There are legitimate arguments about how well some of his stuff performs (like the tunnels, and the autopilot), but one thing you can't deny is that he got off his arse and did it.

I'm almost tempted to search the UBeam thread to see if you were white knighting for Meredith Perry  :-DD
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on June 17, 2019, 02:58:00 pm
Feel free - there's a chance I might have (although I don't think so). I just naturally root for the underdog and latch onto positives rather than negatives :)

(Well, someone has to!)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on June 17, 2019, 03:15:00 pm
Feel free - there's a chance I might have (although I don't think so). I just naturally root for the underdog and latch onto positives rather than negatives :)

And therein lies the problem with today's media and the sheeple who lap up ridiculous impractical ideas. Engineers should know better than to ignore obvious engineering showstoppers in ideas that are, well, impractical  :bullshit:
Solar roadways, Batteriser, uBeam, Wi-Charge, Hyperloop, BFR trips to New York, silly small piss-ant tunnels etc etc.
Engineers are really the only line of defense protecting and informing the public.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: rsjsouza on June 17, 2019, 04:06:13 pm
Feel free - there's a chance I might have (although I don't think so). I just naturally root for the underdog and latch onto positives rather than negatives :)

And therein lies the problem with today's media and the sheeple who lap up ridiculous impractical ideas. Engineers should know better than to ignore obvious engineering showstoppers in ideas that are, well, impractical  :bullshit:
Solar roadways, Batteriser, uBeam, Wi-Charge, Hyperloop, BFR trips to New York, silly small piss-ant tunnels etc etc.
Engineers are really the only line of defense protecting and informing the public.
I fully agree with you, and get quite peeved when millions of public money are thrown into such impractical things that are based on overextending physics and/or technology (Hyperloop, Solar Roadways, etc.). We engineers must not corrupt ourselves into smelling the fairy dust or at least giving an honest account of the pros and cons of these products/ideas.

If it is private money such as this one or the Batteriser, I personally don't really give two hoots about it - whomever is pissing their money away on an yet unrealised product, better make their peace with the possibility of loss or perform due dilligence beforehand. This may not do anything to prevent ludicrous ideas from being vented to the marketplace, but it is of limited effect.

That is what I see this thread doing: the Batteriser was initially a very tough to sell idea from the practical standpoint and targeted to solve a problem that didn't necessarily exist, but people threw their money at it probably for the sake of curiosity or novelty. After many months and the several delays with absolutely lame excuses, the case of defending them becomes harder and harder, to a point where I said it was a masters thesis in BS. From my standpoint, this was a criticism on their practices, not on the product itself which could be (maybe) practical given more conservative boundary conditions (lower voltage non-CAT rated, for example).
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on June 17, 2019, 04:31:13 pm
Quote
Engineers should know better than to ignore obvious engineering showstoppers

In Batterizer that's fair enough, but in Roadways a big argument was that it wasn't economical, and that every inch of road in the world couldn't be changed, etc. Those are bullshit arguments and should be called out for what they are, and that's what I challenge. Sure, there may be good engineering reasons (which won't be business reasons) but they can get hidden and weakened if these 'add-on' arguments are the ones being shouted about.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: rsjsouza on June 17, 2019, 05:51:46 pm
Quote
Engineers should know better than to ignore obvious engineering showstoppers

In Batterizer that's fair enough, but in Roadways a big argument was that it wasn't economical, and that every inch of road in the world couldn't be changed, etc. Those are bullshit arguments and should be called out for what they are, and that's what I challenge. Sure, there may be good engineering reasons (which won't be business reasons) but they can get hidden and weakened if these 'add-on' arguments are the ones being shouted about.
(honest curiosity) Why?

From my standpoint, I see the field of engineering as having to consider many things, including economics and practicality.

At the time these were not the only arguments touted against this specific project - many other technical and physical aspects were thrown against it. The fact the Roadways inventors doubled down on the criticisms by adding more "features" eroded their credibility. This "over promising" is a very common tactic to create a smoke screen and justify any delays in design and production.

(in time: I don't consider the "every inch of the road" a strong argument as well).
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on June 17, 2019, 06:08:07 pm
Quote
he same catagory of BS as crap from Elon Musk

Who designed, makes and sells electric cars. And also successfully (most times!) launches and lands space craft. Yep, certainly in the realms of 'obviously not going to work' bullshit, that.

There are legitimate arguments about how well some of his stuff performs (like the tunnels, and the autopilot), but one thing you can't deny is that he got off his arse and did it.

Except he didn't. Real engineers did. As Thunderfoot even pointed out, he's just a mad visionary with money that spews out ideas. If they are possible, real engineers make them, and if not, we laugh and mock them. He's like a slot machine, you only win the jackpot a small percent of the time. ::)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on June 17, 2019, 07:12:51 pm
Quote
From my standpoint, I see the field of engineering as having to consider many things, including economics and practicality.

Well, primarily we should be looking at whether it is feasible. For instance, are the cables fat enough to carry the juice, can it actually get any juice, etc. Would a battery that fits in a nose clip be able to power a micro-turbine for 8 hours. That kind of thing.

The economics is more tricky since pretty much any new product is far more expensive than the same thing a few years down the line. At this point you would be wanting some thing that is just good enough to sell so you can afford to make better ones, but that's a business decision. The engineering part is how to achieve that.

If you look at the airogel video and think how much that costs, and the massive hassle it is to make it, that would fail at the first post on this forum. But NASA thinks it's worth the price for what they want to do with it, and that's their decision, not ours. All we can do is say that we wouldn't pay whatever it costs to buy, but accept that someone else might.

You might also have noticed that there was a lot of noise about the absolute cost of solaring (hey, a new trademark!) a road, but much of that would have been the cost of a non-solar road anyway so the real costs were wrong. That's what comes of web engineers doing economics :)

Ultimately, so what? If the economics are wrong then it will die a commercial death. Doesn't mean the idea itself it a scam or pants  - there are many things that have died only to be resurrected years later and become a success.

So, when I see a debunking here I expect to see something like "The panels won't take the weight of a truck unless they are too thick to pass sunlight." Fine, but what if the application is a road that won't have a truck that big - there are many roads with weight limits. Right now, if you suggest that you get the nasty label applied and the mob tries to eviscerate you verbally, and I think that's a pretty poor show. We should be able to discuss off-piste things like that with being fearful that we'll be turned into forum lepers.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on June 17, 2019, 07:33:07 pm
Quote
Except he didn't. Real engineers did

He enabled them, and they all stood on the shoulders of giants. There is no mileage in trying to say it doesn't count unless you created the chips that power the PC that runs the software you wrote that lets you compile the language you designed, etc.

Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on June 17, 2019, 09:42:35 pm
Quote
Except he didn't. Real engineers did

He enabled them, and they all stood on the shoulders of giants. There is no mileage in trying to say it doesn't count unless you created the chips that power the PC that runs the software you wrote that lets you compile the language you designed, etc.

"Enabled them", IE threw money at all of his ideas and the realistic ones turned out successful. How much of a part of the design of his products did he actually participate in beyond the "knapkin drawing" level? ::)


EDIT: There's nothing wrong with having good ideas but not knowing how to implement them. There is a problem with having bad ones, spouting them to the world as brilliant, then expecting people to defend you just because you were successful in some endevours.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: GregDunn on June 18, 2019, 01:31:07 am
Quote
Except he didn't. Real engineers did

He enabled them, and they all stood on the shoulders of giants. There is no mileage in trying to say it doesn't count unless you created the chips that power the PC that runs the software you wrote that lets you compile the language you designed, etc.

"Enabled them", IE threw money at all of his ideas and the realistic ones turned out successful. How much of a part of the design of his products did he actually participate in beyond the "knapkin drawing" level? ::)


EDIT: There's nothing wrong with having good ideas but not knowing how to implement them. There is a problem with having bad ones, spouting them to the world as brilliant, then expecting people to defend you just because you were successful in some endevours.

Cf. Thomas Edison.  Visionary, inept engineer.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on June 18, 2019, 03:03:38 am
Thomas Edison.  Visionary, inept engineer.

And that's why we have AC in our homes not DC.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on June 18, 2019, 08:43:08 am
Feel free - there's a chance I might have (although I don't think so). I just naturally root for the underdog and latch onto positives rather than negatives :)

And therein lies the problem with today's media and the sheeple who lap up ridiculous impractical ideas. Engineers should know better than to ignore obvious engineering showstoppers in ideas that are, well, impractical  :bullshit:
Solar roadways, Batteriser, uBeam, Wi-Charge, Hyperloop, BFR trips to New York, silly small piss-ant tunnels etc etc.
Engineers are really the only line of defense protecting and informing the public.
I fully agree with you, and get quite peeved when millions of public money are thrown into such impractical things that are based on overextending physics and/or technology (Hyperloop, Solar Roadways, etc.). We engineers must not corrupt ourselves into smelling the fairy dust or at least giving an honest account of the pros and cons of these products/ideas.

If it is private money such as this one or the Batteriser

This is not private money, it's other people's money.
All the examples I gave are other people's money, even Space-X, they have investors.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on June 18, 2019, 08:58:44 am
Quote
Except he didn't. Real engineers did
He enabled them, and they all stood on the shoulders of giants. There is no mileage in trying to say it doesn't count unless you created the chips that power the PC that runs the software you wrote that lets you compile the language you designed, etc.
"Enabled them", IE threw money at all of his ideas and the realistic ones turned out successful. How much of a part of the design of his products did he actually participate in beyond the "knapkin drawing" level? ::)

With Hyperloop Elon didn't throw his own money at it. I almost think it was a deliberate troll on his part (maybe not at first) and he just wanted to see how far other people would take it, just for shits'n'giggles. Or maybe he's justifies it to himself by thinking "well it's a good fun exercise for students, they are learning stuff".

With BFR, Space-X will just quietly forget about all that hype about using it to take point-point trips on earth, it was just pure media showmanship at it's finest and everyone knew it.

Other ideas (again, non-original) like solar roofs died out once they realised the practicalities of it all.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: rsjsouza on June 18, 2019, 11:01:39 am
Feel free - there's a chance I might have (although I don't think so). I just naturally root for the underdog and latch onto positives rather than negatives :)

And therein lies the problem with today's media and the sheeple who lap up ridiculous impractical ideas. Engineers should know better than to ignore obvious engineering showstoppers in ideas that are, well, impractical  :bullshit:
Solar roadways, Batteriser, uBeam, Wi-Charge, Hyperloop, BFR trips to New York, silly small piss-ant tunnels etc etc.
Engineers are really the only line of defense protecting and informing the public.
I fully agree with you, and get quite peeved when millions of public money are thrown into such impractical things that are based on overextending physics and/or technology (Hyperloop, Solar Roadways, etc.). We engineers must not corrupt ourselves into smelling the fairy dust or at least giving an honest account of the pros and cons of these products/ideas.

If it is private money such as this one or the Batteriser

This is not private money, it's other people's money.
All the examples I gave are other people's money, even Space-X, they have investors.
Perhaps a definition is in order. What I call public money is taxpayer's money, which some of these projects benefited directly, because a committee or a city hall wanted to have a "tech forward" image.

Quackery always existed and you can't say or control where people will throw their money. In this day and age, you have much more ability to get information about the viability of such things (not like in the old wild west, where quacks could pitch "elixirs" of the most variable kind).

I am not saying the quacks are right or justified, but I am saying that, out of the inevitable scenario, I am more peeved if I can't control where my money as a taxpayer will be used to fund that.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on June 21, 2019, 03:41:42 am
They have actually shipped a few units to backers according to some of the recent comments and there are mixed opinions in regards to the devices functionality, some people are really pissed off because they are being charged additional for shipping which I think was meant to be included.   :-BROKE ???

Vion Kickstarter
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/comments
 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1441579202/the-worlds-simplest-bluetooth-multimeter/comments)
Vion Indiegogo
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/comments (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vion-auto-detection-l-bluetooth-l-smart-multimeter#/comments)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on June 21, 2019, 04:09:06 am
Apparently the user needs to remove the battery cover in order to gain access to the USB charging port, safety before usability I suppose.   :-BROKE ???
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on June 21, 2019, 01:48:24 pm
What safety? There's no interlock switch! :palm:
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on July 07, 2019, 03:47:45 am
Other than some colourful comments posted in each campaign I still haven't seen any of the meter recipients post a review of any kind elsewhere. I did however find another promotional video which at least puts a face to those responsible for this entire cluster fuck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTvaV0uMVfs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTvaV0uMVfs)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on July 09, 2019, 02:57:51 pm
Engineers should know better than to ignore obvious engineering showstoppers in ideas that are, well, impractical  :bullshit:

They should, but many of them just see those ideas as means of making easy money while the project lasts (and then they move on). The more impractical the idea, the higher the probability that the people investing in the project are easy to fool.

There may be a fraction of those engineers that actually don't see the showstoppers and believe in the idea  - I'd say that it's somehow lucky that those engineers would work on this kind of projects and not on anything more serious.

Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on August 14, 2019, 06:01:19 am
I got one!

Can't believe I did a 46min video  :o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhRXD-9yvLA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhRXD-9yvLA)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on August 14, 2019, 06:48:52 am
I'm hoping for the sake of the planet...that you blew that thing up at the end.

If you haven't, please do so now. Set it to max current range, bypass the fuse, and hit it straight across the mains or a large capacitor. :-BROKE >:D It must die...the Darwin of multimeters commands it.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on August 14, 2019, 08:55:01 am
I'm hoping for the sake of the planet...that you blew that thing up at the end.

From memory some of the backers complained because the maker reduced the rated input voltage from 500 to 380 volts. Dave took it way past that and it still seemed to work but I certainly wouldn't put any trust in the devices ability to display the correct reading.


Vion Statement
Quote
We took a gamble on upgrading the product as much as possible before sending out the rewards. However, after additional tests and experiments we have found the performance and accuracy of Vion is lower than it was initially.

If you find this to be unacceptable, then we will issue you a full refund. Please email to help@vionlab.com for the refund.

1) The maximum measurement of AC volt is up to 380V, not 500V.
2) Capacitor, inductor, diode test function and 1.5V, 3V voltage output are not available.
3. The Vion App is unstable and will be corrected soon (takes about 1 month)

1) If you do not reconnect after using a one time connection in the app, please close it completely and try again.
2) Some of the features on the iOS version are not functioning properly
3) The option menu of scope and storage function will be reinforced.[i/]
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on August 14, 2019, 10:48:17 am
So, turns out to be not much cop for serious (or even hobby) electronicalling. However, I think you're being a bit hard them being clueless dimwits that didn't know what they were doing - everyone starts off somewhere, and it's massive credit to them that they managed to get to the end (well, near the never-ending end) and ship a product. Many don't manage to rebadge an existing product very well, but these people designed from scratch and got it out despite the troubles they hit along the way.

I know you say that overacting attracts YouTube views, but surely it's sufficient to pan the product and not the people behind it in this case. They didn't intend to scam anyone, pretend it's perpetual motion or any of the usual con stuff. I'm sure they learned a lot from this (and probably won't even think about trying it again, which would be a loss).
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on August 14, 2019, 12:35:59 pm
So, turns out to be not much cop for serious (or even hobby) electronicalling. However, I think you're being a bit hard them being clueless dimwits that didn't know what they were doing - everyone starts off somewhere, and it's massive credit to them that they managed to get to the end (well, near the never-ending end) and ship a product.

And I said hats off to them, not once but twice.
And they didn't know what they were doing.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on August 14, 2019, 12:56:43 pm
Indeed, I did notice you did that. Later on I thought it was undone when you described them as clueless in a pejorative way - they can't be that clueless to have made something that works even if it doesn't meet the spec.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: janoc on August 14, 2019, 01:56:58 pm
Indeed, I did notice you did that. Later on I thought it was undone when you described them as clueless in a pejorative way - they can't be that clueless to have made something that works even if it doesn't meet the spec.

Well, frankly, after watching the video, calling "made something that works even if it doesn't meet the spec" is being extremely generous. The gizmo just doesn't work, period.

(And calling something that doesn't meet its spec "working" is a weird definition of "works", IMO. Moot point, though, because it mostly doesn't work in a usable way at all.)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on August 14, 2019, 02:01:28 pm
Indeed, I did notice you did that. Later on I thought it was undone when you described them as clueless in a pejorative way - they can't be that clueless to have made something that works even if it doesn't meet the spec.

They can be and probably are. I bet none of them actually have real engineering degrees, just googling stuff. It's like ants with collective intelligence, enough idiots in a room can change a lightbulb, or in this case, enough noobs can can design a barely working product.

I'll give them slightly more kudos than the guys who thought they could pump tires with the car exhaust. :palm:
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on August 14, 2019, 02:09:25 pm
Quote
They can be and probably are.

Yes, strictly speaking that's true :). Not what I meant but the word was already at the front of my mind.

Quote
I bet none of them actually have real engineering degrees

Sure, and that matters because...? Would you not fix your leaking tap because you didn't do the plumbing apprenticeship?

Quote
just googling stuff

Ah, OK. Bad form to try and learn stuff you don't already have a certificate for, then.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: taydin on August 14, 2019, 03:33:08 pm
WOW, just watched the video. I knew that this thing would suck, but had no idea that it would suck so bad ...

Register and login to make a measurement  :-DD There are no words to describe how ridiculous that is.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: taydin on August 14, 2019, 03:36:19 pm
Given how much money these guys have raised, I think all manufacturers of the "single capacitor power saver" devices should be on kickstarter and indiegogo. The'll make a KILLING !!!
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on August 14, 2019, 03:57:18 pm
Quote
They can be and probably are.

Yes, strictly speaking that's true :). Not what I meant but the word was already at the front of my mind.

Quote
I bet none of them actually have real engineering degrees

Sure, and that matters because...? Would you not fix your leaking tap because you didn't do the plumbing apprenticeship?

Quote
just googling stuff

Ah, OK. Bad form to try and learn stuff you don't already have a certificate for, then.

Actually having a degree and not relying on internet crap matters when you are making and publically selling a product that requires multiple safety certifications!

You wouldn't work on someone else's house electrical without certification.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on August 14, 2019, 05:40:25 pm
Quote
a product that requires multiple safety certifications!

Surely the issue is whether it has them or not.

Or are we saying not to try and do something above your station because you're bound to fail? Everyone has to find this stuff out somehow, don't they? No-one is born knowing it all.

Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Cyberdragon on August 14, 2019, 05:57:13 pm
Quote
a product that requires multiple safety certifications!

Surely the issue is whether it has them or not.

Or are we saying not to try and do something above your station because you're bound to fail? Everyone has to find this stuff out somehow, don't they? No-one is born knowing it all.

I'm saying if you don't know what you are doing, don't put other people at risk. They clearly don't know as the idea was stupid in the first place and just trying to appeal to hipsters that also probably don't know what they're doing with electrical and risk harming themselves and others, let alone the product itself not being safe.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Domagoj T on August 14, 2019, 07:09:33 pm
The World’s Simplest Bluetooth Multimeter
Let's see what Merriam Webster says.

Quote
Definition of simple
a : lacking in knowledge or expertise
b : lacking in intelligence : STUPID
c : not socially or culturally sophisticated

Seems about right.

Dave, your video is unlisted on YT. On purpose?
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: rsjsouza on August 14, 2019, 09:48:13 pm
The video is cringe-worthy. The product is really bad.  :(

Initially I was actually quite impressed by the product proposition - if the basic functionality worked well, I think they could still have some credibility to improve it over the long run. However, the requirement to login to use the utility, the Bluetooth security steps (a necessary evil in today's day and age), the custom battery, the excessive power consumption and the overall bad user interface on the device are a huge turnoff.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on August 14, 2019, 09:51:47 pm
Over here we use the OED and are equally capable of cherry-picking quotes:

Quote
▶ adjective (simpler, simplest)1.Easily understood or done; presenting no difficulty: a simple solution | camcorders are now so simple to operate.
• [attributive] used to emphasize the fundamental and straightforward nature of something: the simple truth.

2.Plain, basic, or uncomplicated in form, nature, or design; without much decoration or ornamentation: a simple white blouse | the house is furnished in a simple country style.
• humble and unpretentious: a quiet unassuming man with simple tastes.


You know, you can make a point and show up problems without being a dick about it. You don't have to be nasty just because you can be.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on August 14, 2019, 10:33:12 pm
Some similar projects are scams, in that the guys leading them KNOW their idea sucks and that they will never deliver.

I don't think that's the case for Vion. I think they were just a bunch of well-meaning people, but inexperienced and not knowing anything much about electronics in general, safety and metrology in particular. Looks a bit like a bunch of pure software guys willing to develop a hardware product.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on August 14, 2019, 11:02:07 pm
Dave, your video is unlisted on YT. On purpose?

Yes, early release because it wasn't the right time of day.
Actually re-editing this morning to get the time down and add that update from Vion saying the software has bugs.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on August 14, 2019, 11:03:04 pm
Some similar projects are scams, in that the guys leading them KNOW their idea sucks and that they will never deliver.
I don't think that's the case for Vion. I think they were just a bunch of well-meaning people, but inexperienced and not knowing anything much about electronics in general, safety and metrology in particular. Looks a bit like a bunch of pure software guys willing to develop a hardware product.

But the software sucks  ;D
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on August 14, 2019, 11:11:24 pm
Some similar projects are scams, in that the guys leading them KNOW their idea sucks and that they will never deliver.
I don't think that's the case for Vion. I think they were just a bunch of well-meaning people, but inexperienced and not knowing anything much about electronics in general, safety and metrology in particular. Looks a bit like a bunch of pure software guys willing to develop a hardware product.

But the software sucks  ;D

Well, that's unfortunate really.
I'm almost feeling some sympathy for them. ;D
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on August 15, 2019, 05:24:01 am
If anyone was a backer then worth posting my video in the comments.

New video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k04p4UgS6Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k04p4UgS6Y)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on August 15, 2019, 11:45:23 am
They stated back in the February update that the Vion case is "fusion bonded", I hope they have some non-destructive means to open every housing, repair the faults and stick the thing back together in accordance with the certification.   :palm:

That explains why I had to use the dremel.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Kean on August 15, 2019, 12:40:20 pm
If anyone was a backer then worth posting my video in the comments.

Done!
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: ebastler on August 15, 2019, 03:08:03 pm
Some similar projects are scams, in that the guys leading them KNOW their idea sucks and that they will never deliver.

I don't think that's the case for Vion. I think they were just a bunch of well-meaning people, but inexperienced and not knowing anything much about electronics in general, safety and metrology in particular. Looks a bit like a bunch of pure software guys willing to develop a hardware product.

This seems like the most plausible assessment to me. My bet is on either a couple of software/apps developers, or maybe industrial designers...

It probably started started with a couple of guys looking at a conventional multimeter and its probe leads, and thinking: "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to have just the probes, and replace that stupid display & rotary switch with a cool touch interface on your smartphone?" More likely than not, the first concept drawing had two free-wheeling probe tips, without the need to connect them with a clumsy wire. 8)

And then reality gradually came into play...
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on August 15, 2019, 03:13:29 pm
If anyone was a backer then worth posting my video in the comments.

New video:

Can't access the original, but this seems much more... appropriate (for lack of a better word) than I remember, so 'good job' :)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on August 15, 2019, 03:25:33 pm
More likely than not, the first concept drawing had two free-wheeling probe tips, without the need to connect them with a clumsy wire. 8)

Oh, that reminds me of those wireless ESD wrist straps... ;D
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: blacksheeplogic on August 15, 2019, 09:41:33 pm
Looks a bit like a bunch of pure software guys willing to develop a hardware product.

It wreaks of the script Kiddies crowd.

Software Joe Blogs would be generous. That app was not written by a software developer, putting together a simple UI like that is less than a day's work. Given the level of understanding of a multi-meter they seem to have it's hard to see they had any knowledge outside of plug and play.

I typically are not a fan of these tear people apart videos, but I think this is a case where it's very much a needed and justified. There's no way they had the knowledge or should have been developing a product that was advertised as suitable to measure in lethal environments and had the balls to fake meeting electrical standards. I'm all for the give then a chance camp until they pull this kind of shit.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: janoc on August 16, 2019, 09:43:27 am
Not to defend software developers doing silly things (looks in a mirror, uhm ...) but I don't believe that Vion app was done by a semi-competent software dev neither. A software dev, even if they don't have a clue about how a multimeter works or how is it used, wouldn't  have left such crazy bugs in both the device's firmware and the app itself.

Looks like they are a bunch of businessmen/designers who have dreamed up a silly idea and then gave the job both to hardware and sw engineers who barely knew what they are doing (= i.e. bidding for the lowest cost). And were sufficiently incompetent/clueless to make sure it was done properly/didn't care about the result.

Also that Nordic MCU they have used is great for Bluetooth Low Energy support but it does not support classic Bluetooth - could that be why some people have issues connecting to the device? I don't see BTLE being requirement mentioned anywhere. But then it could have also been a simple bug/crappy programming because it is unlikely the older phone would have been working and a new one not.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on August 16, 2019, 10:40:03 am
Also that Nordic MCU they have used is great for Bluetooth Low Energy support but it does not support classic Bluetooth - could that be why some people have issues connecting to the device? I don't see BTLE being requirement mentioned anywhere. But then it could have also been a simple bug/crappy programming because it is unlikely the older phone would have been working and a new one not.

Going for BLE only in the 121GW meter was a big mistake. We thought we could just implement a simple serial protocol and that would be it, but BLE doesn't properly support serial interfaces like the full bluetooth stack does. It was a massive multi-month effort by David2 to get it all working as seamlessly as it does, and he's a gun programmer (although had no experience in BLE). Expensive mistake.
(BTW, same thing has happened again with USB-PB on the uSupply, it makes the BLE problem look like a cake-walk)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on August 16, 2019, 10:52:40 am
I typically are not a fan of these tear people apart videos, but I think this is a case where it's very much a needed and justified. There's no way they had the knowledge or should have been developing a product that was advertised as suitable to measure in lethal environments and had the balls to fake meeting electrical standards. I'm all for the give then a chance camp until they pull this kind of shit.

The be fair, what standards are they "faking"?
Anyone is free to stamp CATIII on their meter, that's not really "faking" anything unless you fake UL or ETL marks.
Sure it may not meet the CATIII standard, but you don't really know that unless you get it independently certified. No different to many cheap meters on the market.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: janoc on August 16, 2019, 03:24:56 pm
Going for BLE only in the 121GW meter was a big mistake. We thought we could just implement a simple serial protocol and that would be it, but BLE doesn't properly support serial interfaces like the full bluetooth stack does. It was a massive multi-month effort by David2 to get it all working as seamlessly as it does, and he's a gun programmer (although had no experience in BLE). Expensive mistake.
(BTW, same thing has happened again with USB-PB on the uSupply, it makes the BLE problem look like a cake-walk)

Actually, I think it was a good choice for a device like this, BLE and specifically that Nordic nRF52 chip series are extremely low power (like 10mA while transmitting and down to single digit uA when sleeping).

I have used a nRF52832 recently for a project to be used with a PC, where BLE support is a bit more hit&miss than on mobile - and no big issues. However, I did implement a custom HID (HID over GATT) device instead - that works in Windows 10, Linux (and likely Mac too but I didn't test) and all mobile hw out of the box. I have used the excellent free HIDAPI library to write a small client to read the data from my vendor-specific report but you could use e.g. a gamepad or something else standard too. Not as simple as opening a terminal emulator to read the data but not that much more complicated neither.

The Nordic SDK has an example of a HID mouse, with a bit of research and hacking of descriptors you can make a custom device.

BLE doesn't have the standard profiles like the classic Bluetooth had but the fact that you don't need to "pair" (well, bond in the BLE terminology), that you can have multiple devices bonded and connected (!) (e.g. your phone AND the PC at the same time), much lower power consumption are more than enough to balance that out.

The regular serial device profile (SPP) in Bluetooth Classic is neat but compared to the simplicity of GATT and the need to either use preprogrammed modules or to buy expensive dev kits is a major downside, IMO.

The nRF52 series lets you do all of this stuff in a single cheap module, with regular ARM dev tools (no proprietary stuff needed, only a binary blob you flash if you need BLE) and supports all sorts of protocols - not only BLE but also Shockburst (used by the popular nRF24L01+), Zigbee and ANT (if you are into fitness stuff). And FCC certified modules are cheap (like $2-5, in singles) if you don't want to implement the SoC on the board yourself.

Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Nomad576 on August 16, 2019, 06:01:23 pm
Being an old fart who always looks at the bottom dollar, I just wanted to find out how much they are charging those folk who are short of a multi-meter  :bullshit: on their workbench.  I have one of those 2 dollar jobbies from the cheap bin at the hardware store, then awhile back I picked up an auto-sensing POS that sort of works but has a huge readout so my old eyes can read the numbers, and I do have one of those pen type that is autosensing as well, now that one I do like when I am working on electric stuff in my RV as it's handy and works just fine in a 12/120/240 volt AC/DC environment.  Owning a motor home automatically makes you a mechanic/electronic/truck driver (36 foot RV + tow bar + car) and expert at backing large outfits.  Don't think I have room in my toolkit for some useless POS like this but still wonder how much folks are willing to part with for the privilege of owning such soon to be rare item.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: NANDBlog on August 17, 2019, 07:40:39 am
Looks a bit like a bunch of pure software guys willing to develop a hardware product.
Looks like pure software people trying to develop any kind of product.
I've seen this so may times.
I've love technology. Rapid prototyping. Agile hardware. Minimum viable product. Lean startup. Ship it and then we improve based on the feedback.

I have some feedback. Go back writing java applets, you code monkey.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: dunkemhigh on August 17, 2019, 10:40:35 am
Quote
vMinimum viable product. Lean startup. Ship it and then we improve based on the feedback.

To be fair, that's pretty much normal (except it's not exclusive to lean startups). The initial release would normally be expected to pay for later improvements, and if you have the guts you'll charge more for early adopters too.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: thm_w on August 28, 2019, 10:07:14 pm
Going for BLE only in the 121GW meter was a big mistake. We thought we could just implement a simple serial protocol and that would be it, but BLE doesn't properly support serial interfaces like the full bluetooth stack does. It was a massive multi-month effort by David2 to get it all working as seamlessly as it does, and he's a gun programmer (although had no experience in BLE). Expensive mistake.
(BTW, same thing has happened again with USB-PB on the uSupply, it makes the BLE problem look like a cake-walk)

Ah that seems not too surprising, USB-PD seems absurdly complex for what you get. QC3 can be done with four resistors and 2 I/O pins.
Of course USB-PD is the way to go for PC based compatibility and future use, just fun to compare the two..
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on August 29, 2019, 04:50:03 am
Going for BLE only in the 121GW meter was a big mistake. We thought we could just implement a simple serial protocol and that would be it, but BLE doesn't properly support serial interfaces like the full bluetooth stack does. It was a massive multi-month effort by David2 to get it all working as seamlessly as it does, and he's a gun programmer (although had no experience in BLE). Expensive mistake.
(BTW, same thing has happened again with USB-PB on the uSupply, it makes the BLE problem look like a cake-walk)

Ah that seems not too surprising, USB-PD seems absurdly complex for what you get. QC3 can be done with four resistors and 2 I/O pins.
Of course USB-PD is the way to go for PC based compatibility and future use, just fun to compare the two..

Yep, and David's still working on USB-PD...
It has involved both hardware and software USB protocol decoders (both of which had bugs that hindered progress) and countless hours. It's not just USB-PD though, it's HID and all that other stuff and getting it to work as driverless and as universal as possible.
It's why the TS-80 soldering iron uses QC3 instead of USB-PD
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: janoc on August 29, 2019, 12:54:47 pm
Yep, and David's still working on USB-PD...
It has involved both hardware and software USB protocol decoders (both of which had bugs that hindered progress) and countless hours. It's not just USB-PD though, it's HID and all that other stuff and getting it to work as driverless and as universal as possible.
It's why the TS-80 soldering iron uses QC3 instead of USB-PD


What does USB-PD have to do with HID?  ???

HID is a major pain in the butt, especially given the millions of ways the same thing can be encoded in the descriptor but only one or two work in Windows (so the standard is not really the spec but "whatever Windows accepts"). But I don't see why that would be a reason why a soldering iron would use QC3 instead of PD, given that HID is totally unrelated to it.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: thm_w on August 29, 2019, 10:52:32 pm
What does USB-PD have to do with HID?  ???

HID is a major pain in the butt, especially given the millions of ways the same thing can be encoded in the descriptor but only one or two work in Windows (so the standard is not really the spec but "whatever Windows accepts"). But I don't see why that would be a reason why a soldering iron would use QC3 instead of PD, given that HID is totally unrelated to it.

Because daves power supply needs to communicate with the PC, presumably for the SCPI control. HID = comm, USB-PD = lots of power.
The TS80 does not use HID, but uses comparatively simple QC3 to get the high USB power transmitted. Implementing PD would add cost and development time.

edit: I'm working on a QC3 based power device, but not similar to the usupply. Its an easy way to get 5-20V at 1-2A without screwing around buying expensive wall warts.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: janoc on August 30, 2019, 09:45:15 am
What does USB-PD have to do with HID?  ???

HID is a major pain in the butt, especially given the millions of ways the same thing can be encoded in the descriptor but only one or two work in Windows (so the standard is not really the spec but "whatever Windows accepts"). But I don't see why that would be a reason why a soldering iron would use QC3 instead of PD, given that HID is totally unrelated to it.

Because daves power supply needs to communicate with the PC, presumably for the SCPI control. HID = comm, USB-PD = lots of power.

The TS80 does not use HID, but uses comparatively simple QC3 to get the high USB power transmitted. Implementing PD would add cost and development time.

But USB-PD does not depend on HID for anything (and neither the other way around).

You can use HID + QC3 or you can use HID + USB-PD or whatever other combination. The two technologies are totally unrelated, heck they don't even talk over the same wires (HID runs over standard USB or Bluetooth, USB-PD uses the CC pins of the USB C connector).

USB-PD is a complicated mess but it is a different mess than the HID protocol. That's why these statements don't make any sense to me.

Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: thm_w on August 30, 2019, 09:41:18 pm
But USB-PD does not depend on HID for anything (and neither the other way around).

You can use HID + QC3 or you can use HID + USB-PD or whatever other combination. The two technologies are totally unrelated, heck they don't even talk over the same wires (HID runs over standard USB or Bluetooth, USB-PD uses the CC pins of the USB C connector).

USB-PD is a complicated mess but it is a different mess than the HID protocol. That's why these statements don't make any sense to me.

No one said it did.
The PSU needs both USB-PD and HID to be considered "complete". They have been decided as the requirements, for better or for worse.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on August 30, 2019, 09:47:45 pm
I think it's an interesting experience to share for others who would think of using either (HID and/or USB-PD). Expect tears and spending a lot more time on it than you initially thought.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: NiHaoMike on August 31, 2019, 03:16:40 am
Because daves power supply needs to communicate with the PC, presumably for the SCPI control. HID = comm, USB-PD = lots of power.
USB CDC-ACM is a better fit if you're looking to emulate a serial port, and in fact is what's used on most Arduino-like platforms with native USB. HID is better when you want to emulate an input device such as a keyboard, mouse, or joystick.

As for USB-PD, there seems to be a library for STM32, no idea how easy/difficult it is to use.
https://github.com/st-one/X-CUBE-USB-PD
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on August 31, 2019, 05:13:41 am
What does USB-PD have to do with HID?  ???

HID is a major pain in the butt, especially given the millions of ways the same thing can be encoded in the descriptor but only one or two work in Windows (so the standard is not really the spec but "whatever Windows accepts"). But I don't see why that would be a reason why a soldering iron would use QC3 instead of PD, given that HID is totally unrelated to it.

Because daves power supply needs to communicate with the PC, presumably for the SCPI control. HID = comm, USB-PD = lots of power.
The TS80 does not use HID, but uses comparatively simple QC3 to get the high USB power transmitted. Implementing PD would add cost and development time.

Correct, HID is for the uSupply not the TS80
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Kilrah on August 31, 2019, 07:01:49 am
Yep, and David's still working on USB-PD...
Probably a bit late, but you might want to look at a fully open working implementation: https://www.tindie.com/products/clarahobbs/pd-buddy-sink/ (https://www.tindie.com/products/clarahobbs/pd-buddy-sink/)

It literally does all you want (PD power negotiation and multi-platform data comms) apart from the actual variable PSU output stage.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: janoc on August 31, 2019, 08:37:51 am
No one said it did.
The PSU needs both USB-PD and HID to be considered "complete". They have been decided as the requirements, for better or for worse.

I guess then I have misunderstood the messages by Dave and you as somehow implying that if you want PD you need to implement HID and that the TS80 iron was able to get by with QC3 instead because it doesn't need to talk to the PC (and thus doesn't need HID).

Which did not make sense to me.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: SiliconWizard on August 31, 2019, 04:14:51 pm
@Dave: are you going to provide an USB-PD power adapter with the uSupply, or leave that to the user?

USB-PD is rather hairy, and I would expect not ALL USB ports claiming to support it to be really 100% compliant, so you may have compatibility issues in the field. Thus selling the product with an adapter you have tested compatible looks like a good idea. May not be what you intended to do at all?
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Kilrah on August 31, 2019, 05:15:48 pm
All PD things work with all PD things from my experience, BUT you DO have to make sure to support multiple power configs and adapt to it. If Dave makes a device that needs the 15V 3A profile and will only work with that then it won't work with any supply that doesn't offer that profile. Need to design with multiple profiles, and properly query the source for its supported profiles, then choose the more appropriate one from that and adjust your output limits accordingly if necessary.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: thm_w on September 04, 2019, 10:49:26 pm
Check out this TI version with proper 18-bit ADC: https://www.ti.com/tool/TIDA-01012?jktype=design (https://www.ti.com/tool/TIDA-01012?jktype=design)

But the BOM looks to be at least 4x more expensive, of course they use the high end TI opamps, references, etc.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on September 04, 2019, 11:31:09 pm
Yep, and David's still working on USB-PD...
Probably a bit late, but you might want to look at a fully open working implementation: https://www.tindie.com/products/clarahobbs/pd-buddy-sink/ (https://www.tindie.com/products/clarahobbs/pd-buddy-sink/)
It literally does all you want (PD power negotiation and multi-platform data comms) apart from the actual variable PSU output stage.

Doesn't look to be open source, no that's of no help.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on September 04, 2019, 11:32:40 pm
All PD things work with all PD things from my experience, BUT you DO have to make sure to support multiple power configs and adapt to it. If Dave makes a device that needs the 15V 3A profile and will only work with that then it won't work with any supply that doesn't offer that profile.

It only uses the 5V profile.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Muttley Snickers on September 04, 2019, 11:52:45 pm
By the sound of it this subject probably warrants a dedicated thread and perhaps even a video to inform others of the potential hurdles, hazards and headaches involved.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: EEVblog on September 05, 2019, 12:00:52 am
By the sound of it this subject probably warrants a dedicated thread and perhaps even a video to inform others of the potential hurdles, hazards and headaches involved.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/supporters-lounge/usupply-prototype/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/supporters-lounge/usupply-prototype/)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: MBY on September 05, 2019, 09:32:17 am
Silly product indeed! But, there should be a place for "alternative" multimeters, if you understand what engineers want. Many years ago, I built an "acoustic multimeter" that do three and only three things. Continuity, ohms and volts. Continuity is the same as the lowest ohms scale. A beeper gives a tone according to the resistance or voltage. Nothing more, nothing less. But it has been REALLY useful for me over the years when you only need an indication and cannot read a display and measure at the same time.

Unfortunately I lost it when I moved a couple of years ago and the schematics is long gone, but I'm thinking of creating a new one.

Edit: the ranges were 0-10 ohms, 1k, 100k, 10M and 0-1, 5, 20 volts. Today I would made the ranges a little bit different as voltages such as 1.8, 2.7 and 3.3 volts are more common than old TTL levels. The 0-10 ohms range however, was perfect for continuity.
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Kilrah on September 05, 2019, 10:31:40 am
Probably a bit late, but you might want to look at a fully open working implementation: https://www.tindie.com/products/clarahobbs/pd-buddy-sink/ (https://www.tindie.com/products/clarahobbs/pd-buddy-sink/)
It literally does all you want (PD power negotiation and multi-platform data comms) apart from the actual variable PSU output stage.

Doesn't look to be open source, no that's of no help.
As I said it IS fully open source, both software and hardware. See links at the bottom of the page.
https://git.clarahobbs.com/pd-buddy (https://git.clarahobbs.com/pd-buddy)
Title: Re: Vion: The World's Silliest Multimeter
Post by: Monsterwolf on September 12, 2019, 07:06:38 am
Unfortunately I lost it when I moved a couple of years ago and the schematics is long gone, but I'm thinking of creating a new one.
How long will it take to finish?