Author Topic: Eagle has moved up, way up.  (Read 7407 times)

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Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2019, 04:50:04 pm »
Same here. Software must be able to be installed and used without an internet connection.

I have been using Eagle during business and personal travel without issues. Fusion360 is far more restrictive when your internet connection is unavailable - but I have learned to manage that as well with local caching.

With all of that said - I would certainly prefer a forever license with annual maintenance overall. Right now, that is not an option so I have two choices [broken record]:

  • Buy Solidworks/Altium Designer/Mastercam for Solidworks/Keyshot Pro for $30k plus around $4k/yr in maintenance
  • Rent Eagle/Fusion360 for $800 year

I know there are a lot of people that hate the subscription model and have good reasons for it. They advocate the buy it forever business model and I get it. How well did that work out for CadSoft and Element14? Quick answer is that it did not work. People like me would buy the license and upgrade every four years but complaining about lack of new features. CadSoft was like - "We don't have any cash flow to support development, but please for the love of God - give us some money even though we have nothing to offer in return"

That was/is a trap that was shit for the customer and shit for the company. If they were going to continue that forever license model - the costs needed to go up or the user base would need to massively grow but that could only happen with a total do-over from the ground up. Eagle simply was not worth more than a few $100 dollars to me in the CadSoft days. It totally sucked, which was why I was hours away from just biting the bullet and jumping into Altium Designer. There is no question that Altium would beat the pants off of Eagle in nearly every category - but I would have no cash and chewing on a line of credit for the privilege.

I am not going to lose much if Eagle is abandoned by Autodesk - the files are mine and exist entirely on my computer. None of my Eagle design work is in the cloud services except a select number of libraries. All of that data can be imported into AD with nearly perfect fidelity if I ever have to do that. I don't see much of a risk there. So, 5-10-15 years after Autodesk cancels Eagle - I can still read and refer to XML based Eagle files.

For those that can afford the big-bucks software - go for it! For me, I simply do not have the cash-flow to support it and the low-cost subscription options are my only financially practical way to keep my small business viable. If Autodesk stabs me in the heart in some way - so be it. If these options did not exist, neither would my small business. At least for now, I am enjoying the ability to exist and make money.
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Offline Kjelt

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2019, 08:36:10 pm »
 Rx how important is the synergy between Eagle and Fusion really?
I mean if you design your pcb and place the parts you could make a 3d scan of the pcb and use it in any cad program ? Can you elaborate on the extra's ?
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2019, 09:01:49 pm »
Rx how important is the synergy between Eagle and Fusion really?
I mean if you design your pcb and place the parts you could make a 3d scan of the pcb and use it in any cad program ? Can you elaborate on the extra's ?

I'm sure rx8pilot will also respond. But for the rather tightly packed gadgets he designs (see reply #36, for example), I am sure it's not a linear process of "design the PCB, then design the enclosure around it". I imagine a fair number of back-and-forth iterations to optimize the integration of mechanical and PCB design. And that is what the Fusion integration is meant to be good at.
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2019, 09:48:43 pm »
Rx how important is the synergy between Eagle and Fusion really?
I mean if you design your pcb and place the parts you could make a 3d scan of the pcb and use it in any cad program ? Can you elaborate on the extra's ?

I'm sure rx8pilot will also respond. But for the rather tightly packed gadgets he designs (see reply #36, for example), I am sure it's not a linear process of "design the PCB, then design the enclosure around it". I imagine a fair number of back-and-forth iterations to optimize the integration of mechanical and PCB design. And that is what the Fusion integration is meant to be good at.

It is certainly fair to say that the process is non-linear. In a disconnected environment - I have to do a ton of export/import/placement efforts. This is prone to errors and omissions in addition to costing more time overall. That method requires a lot more planning up front because it is more rigid by nature. While Fusion360/Eagle integration still needs some details dealt with, it does work bi-directionally. My latest project has 11 PCB's in an enclosure slightly larger than a deck of cards. It also includes a myriad of connectors, data ports, display, and LED's that have positions largely defined by the mechanical design - but still restricted by the PCB layouts. Two of the PCB's are so close that the components on one had to be meshed with the components of the other. This was very easy to see and manage in Fusion. Cutouts for connectors and wire routing, as well as assembly planning all, conspired against success as you can probably guess.

The approach I was able to take was to freely move back and forth between mechanical and PCB designs to slowly arrive at the best possible compromises to get past interference and conflicts. It was quick and easy and I really liked the freedom to approach various issues from either the EE side or the ME side of the project and quickly see the impact of my changes without having to do anything.

Keep in mind - Only a short while ago I was rather vocal about how much I disliked Eagle. I hated it.

https://youtu.be/J9Ax4UzdE-k
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Offline Kjelt

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2019, 10:01:49 pm »
It is certainly fair to say that the process is non-linear.
But you have to functionally test the pcbs beforehand right?
You're not saying that if in the end you made a mistake for instance you need a larger component you also have to redesign the enclosure?
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up. could KICAD export to freeCAD?
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2019, 11:15:23 pm »

I have never tried diff routing before, ....

Diff routing in Eagle is VERY basic, limited, annoying.

It is certainly fair to say that the process is non-linear.
But you have to functionally test the pcbs beforehand right?
You're not saying that if in the end you made a mistake for instance you need a larger component you also have to redesign the enclosure?

Yes, of course. I just received the PCB's a few days ago and in the process of assembling the first ones for testing. If I made a mistake (or 100) that requires changes that impact the mechanics - I have not yet locked it down. Like any design approach - I have to decide how to best accommodate the change.  At the moment, I have started programming the CNC for the enclosure but any last-second changes auto-update. Like when a hole moves or a relief for a large capacitor. I can run the analysis looking for any mechanical interference and deal with it by changes to the enclosure or the PCB or even both.

If I have taken the time to associate a component with the enclosure model - it can be parametric and automatically enlarge a hole if a larger component is substituted in. After that, the CNC programming for that feature is also automatically updated. The last major thing I will do on this design is the heat spreader for all the MOSFETS. That is as easy as choosing the MOSFETS and extruding them to the case so I can perfectly aligned contact pads for the mosfets that work around all the other parts. If a FET moves, the heat spreader automatically updates, as does the G-code for milling.

Overall - pretty cool. Very quick way to design a multi-discipline complete product. It also has excellent animation and rendering feature for marketing or assembly training. When I was using Solidworks, I had to use a $1,500 3rd party application for animation and renderings.
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Offline mc172

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2019, 01:01:07 am »

We had someone come in from either Solidworks or Altium (cant remember which) to demo the new integration system.
They were all excited about their new system.
First thing we asked was if can we now export the 3D PCB design into Soildworks with all the layers (something we have been after for ages).
Nope, you can't. No seeing tracks in Solidworks.
They left unhappy.

http://www.desktop-eda.com.au/solidworks-modeler-for-altium-designer/
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2019, 01:43:54 am »

We had someone come in from either Solidworks or Altium (cant remember which) to demo the new integration system.
They were all excited about their new system.
First thing we asked was if can we now export the 3D PCB design into Soildworks with all the layers (something we have been after for ages).
Nope, you can't. No seeing tracks in Solidworks.
They left unhappy.

http://www.desktop-eda.com.au/solidworks-modeler-for-altium-designer/

Great - another 3rd party band-aid in the mix.
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Offline macegr

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2019, 07:03:22 am »
I don't see much of a risk there. So, 5-10-15 years after Autodesk cancels Eagle - I can still read and refer to XML based Eagle files.

Depending on some other subscription program in the future (since if subscription is the only viable way to make software there will be nothing else) to support 15 year old Eagle files...might as well start learning to route PCBs in a text editor now.

 

Offline MitjaN

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up. could KICAD export to freeCAD?
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2019, 07:41:16 am »
I wonder, could KICAD export to freeCAD and do the same? I have not tried the newer KICAD, but I suppose one could create the box and everything? (w/o an external 3D CAD?)
it be great if KICAD users chime in
(and I just discovered KICAD has the auto diff routing too)
There is an option for KiCad/FreeCad synchronization (), which is quite good. But for there is no support for a multi PCB projects, so you are on your own.  But they are doable though with a bit of ingenuity.
 
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Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2019, 12:30:36 pm »
I don't see much of a risk there. So, 5-10-15 years after Autodesk cancels Eagle - I can still read and refer to XML based Eagle files.

Depending on some other subscription program in the future (since if subscription is the only viable way to make software there will be nothing else) to support 15 year old Eagle files...might as well start learning to route PCBs in a text editor now.

I can't say I am worried about needing a 15 year old file to save me and doubt that XML will be impossible to parse either.
The reality is that I will not abandon or ignore opportunities today just because there is a non-zero chance that Autodesk will no longer support Eagle. KiCad, from what I can tell, is really only a hobby level option that lacks the support and development needed for professional use. Eagle was in that same category for a very long time, just recently joining the ranks of professional applications (but just barely). The other alternative is exceptionally expensive. In the context of choosing my battles - I am willing to deal with the subscription compromise to gain access to a level of functionality that would otherwise be out of financial reach.

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Offline latigid on

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #61 on: March 31, 2019, 08:32:51 am »
I think, like many, I was disappointed in Autodesk's decision to switch to a rentware model at the start of 2016. To provide no alternative to the thousands who had funded the software development over a decade or two was quite surprising. But all of this has been said before. It seems like the new funding has allowed some new features to come out, but for 683€ per year for "dynamic" software (to put it politely): hmm...

I would like to hear from users who have jumped on board what is significantly different from 7.7. I know EAGLE fairly well, including its annoying features and necessary workarounds and I can do good layouts.

Just looking at a set of features here, I honestly don't see much that would sell it for me:
https://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/features

SPICE simulator: could save a bit of time, but there are simulators elsewhere
PCB layout software has new modular design blocks: already in 7.7; is the implementation any better? Normally I import the .brd to replicate layouts.
Schematic rule check: already in ERC; anything new or helpful?
Schematic to PCB synchronization: fundamental to EAGLE, nothing new here
PCB layout editor: routing engine looks interesting, but as I said, I've learned how to work with 45° corners, careful rip-up/dragging of traces etc.
PCB object alignment: snap to grid, changing the grid size dynamically is enough for me
Obstacle avoidance PCB routing: as above
PCB routing: as above
Simpler selection and editing: old way works okay
High-speed design: is diff pair any better than before?
Design rule checking (DRC): old hat, unless there are new, useful checks?
PCB library content: I mostly make my own library parts and I'd rather not rely on online stuff. Trust issues with parts means I would probably have to consult the datasheet anyway.
PCB component 3D model: could be handy but I can export to DXF and this is usually enough for 3D CAD
Complete component: I can copy an existing component footprint, even though it has a strange workflow. Reusing existing libraries carries the same risk as before.
Link component to supplier: with BOM ulp and our own tools we have this covered already
Online PCB community: CAM processor and choose your own board house
Fusion 360 Integration: as above
User language programs (ULPs): very useful but nothing new
BGA fanout: personally I don't work with BGAs. I remember that the integration was a bit buggy at the start, is it better now?

There's a good rundown of new features here:
https://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/blog/autodesk-eagle-9/

As above, the new routing and auto net/label placement for schematics look quite neat. I just think at the moment that this is not worth some 700€ per year in perpetuity on a software model I don't really support. If I had the option of a one-time permanent licence now that I can actually see what I am paying for in advance, I might consider it.



 

Offline rachaelp

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #62 on: April 01, 2019, 07:51:20 am »
SPICE simulator: could save a bit of time, but there are simulators elsewhere

Yes there are simulators elsewhere but then you have to draw things multiple times in different tools. Better to draw it once surely?

PCB layout software has new modular design blocks: already in 7.7; is the implementation any better? Normally I import the .brd to replicate layouts.

They've basically wrapped it up in the UI and added a dbl file containing the portions of the sch/brd. You can create it from a small section of an existing design too.

Schematic rule check: already in ERC; anything new or helpful?

Nothing new in the ERC really.

Schematic to PCB synchronization: fundamental to EAGLE, nothing new here

Yep, nothing new here.

PCB layout editor: routing engine looks interesting, but as I said, I've learned how to work with 45° corners, careful rip-up/dragging of traces etc.

The new move tool with preserve angles is SO much better than in earlier versions of EAGLE. It's actually a huge productivity increase for me.

PCB object alignment: snap to grid, changing the grid size dynamically is enough for me

There are actually some additional alignment tools too but honestly I don't use them much because I use grids a lot.

Obstacle avoidance PCB routing: as above

It can be useful but it's not grid aware so tends to leave things off grid which I then have to go clean up. It's useful for quickly seeing routing options.

PCB routing: as above

There are actually quite a few new routing tools, the most notable of these being push and shove which can be hugely helpful when you need to get some traces through on a congested board. Another additional routing mode is loop removal which makes rerouting traces a different way a lot quicker. There are also a whole bunch of modes associated with the ripup tool now too which can be very helpful at times.

Simpler selection and editing: old way works okay

Old way works better. Fortunately you can still use the old way by turning the "Group command default on" setting off.

High-speed design: is diff pair any better than before?

Not yet but hopefully this is something they'll improve upon soon.

Design rule checking (DRC): old hat, unless there are new, useful checks?

Well, there are some new checks and some additional settings to help determine what gets checked but the biggest changes to the DRC are:

1) Live DRC. It's running all the time so you can see violations as you are routing and deal with them as they occur rather than only find out when you've manually run it at some later point. It's actually much better than it sounds and I find it incredibly useful.

2) The DRC results window has been improved so you can find and see the errors you wish to deal with more easily.

PCB library content: I mostly make my own library parts and I'd rather not rely on online stuff. Trust issues with parts means I would probably have to consult the datasheet anyway.

Yep you should always make your own stuff and if you do use anything else from a 3rd party it needs thoroughly checking. The libraries which are supplied aren't improved and I don't use them. However, there is now an IPC package generator which creates quite a lot of standard package types along with 3D models to go with them.

They have also introduced "Managed Libraries" but these have some usability and workflow issues. For the most part the regular libraries are better but in order to fully utilize the integration with Fusion360 you do really need at least one managed library for dealing with mapping STEP models to footprints.

PCB component 3D model: could be handy but I can export to DXF and this is usually enough for 3D CAD

Being able to create a proper 3D model of your board and seamlessly go between ECAD and MCAD in either direction is quite a big bonus if you are designing anything with any significant mechanical design challenges. You can move parts and alter the PCB outline in Fusion360 and push them back to EAGLE so it's much closer integration than just exporting a static model from ECAD and loading it into MCAD.

Complete component: I can copy an existing component footprint, even though it has a strange workflow. Reusing existing libraries carries the same risk as before.

Yes, there are no real changes here.

Link component to supplier: with BOM ulp and our own tools we have this covered already

I've never used this part at all, I do my own thing for BOM's etc. I think the DesignLink stuff came in v7 under Farnell?

Online PCB community: CAM processor and choose your own board house

Yes.

Fusion 360 Integration: as above

It's actually quite useful. See above!

User language programs (ULPs): very useful but nothing new

Yes there haven't been any improvements in ULP really.

BGA fanout: personally I don't work with BGAs. I remember that the integration was a bit buggy at the start, is it better now?

The BGA fanout isn't useful. It was one of the first things they did early in v8 and hasn't been improved at all since. I do a lot of BGA designs and I always end up just routing them out myself. This is now part of a larger fanout tool which provides better support for fanning out components in general.

As above, the new routing and auto net/label placement for schematics look quite neat. I just think at the moment that this is not worth some 700€ per year in perpetuity on a software model I don't really support. If I had the option of a one-time permanent licence now that I can actually see what I am paying for in advance, I might consider it.

There are other improvements too which aren't covered in the above list. In the schematic editor busses now have good support in the UI. Previously you had to explicitly write the bus strings to create them and I wrote a ULP to add some UI functionality to this previously, but now there is a proper UI built it which does make creating and managing busses a lot better.

In the board you now have true bottom side view which is an actual flip of the view and not the design editing mirror.ulp which was provided previously. You also have single layer mode so all but your currently active layer are greyed out so you can get a clear view of where you are routing but still see what is of interest on other layers too.

It's up to you whether you feel €700/year is too much but at least they are now actually providing the updates people had been asking for which could never have been achieved with the old CADSoft model as they just couldn't sustain the amount of engineering required. When the subscription was first announced there was a lot of anger and an assumption that it was just a money grab and nothing would come of EAGLE. I think they've definitely shown they're willing to put a significant investment into the development of EAGLE now so I think we'll continue to get significant improvements with future releases so the subscription model isn't an issue for me, I know it goes to paying for software development and I will see the results in time.

Best Regards,

Rachael
I have a weakness for Test Equipment so can often be found having a TEA break (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/)
 
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Offline latigid on

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #63 on: April 06, 2019, 10:47:41 am »
Thanks for the detailed reply.

Quote
It's up to you whether you feel €700/year is too much but at least they are now actually providing the updates people had been asking for which could never have been achieved with the old CADSoft model as they just couldn't sustain the amount of engineering required. When the subscription was first announced there was a lot of anger and an assumption that it was just a money grab and nothing would come of EAGLE. I think they've definitely shown they're willing to put a significant investment into the development of EAGLE now so I think we'll continue to get significant improvements with future releases so the subscription model isn't an issue for me, I know it goes to paying for software development and I will see the results in time.

If my memory serves me right, the first year had a lot of complaints about unstable releases and bugs, so although admirable and maybe a worthy investment in hindsight, that first year's subscription didn't really pay off. Now I think it's pretty solid but the same holds for the future: I don't have a crystal ball, so I can't guess if what they may or may not add will be worth the blind sunk cost....

 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #64 on: April 06, 2019, 06:10:23 pm »
Thanks for the detailed reply.

Quote
It's up to you whether you feel €700/year is too much but at least they are now actually providing the updates people had been asking for which could never have been achieved with the old CADSoft model as they just couldn't sustain the amount of engineering required. When the subscription was first announced there was a lot of anger and an assumption that it was just a money grab and nothing would come of EAGLE. I think they've definitely shown they're willing to put a significant investment into the development of EAGLE now so I think we'll continue to get significant improvements with future releases so the subscription model isn't an issue for me, I know it goes to paying for software development and I will see the results in time.

If my memory serves me right, the first year had a lot of complaints about unstable releases and bugs, so although admirable and maybe a worthy investment in hindsight, that first year's subscription didn't really pay off. Now I think it's pretty solid but the same holds for the future: I don't have a crystal ball, so I can't guess if what they may or may not add will be worth the blind sunk cost....

My Altium rep (desperate) called yesterday.....
I told him that Eagle is many years behind AD, but its most critical upgrade has been integration with F360. He had nothing to say after that. All he could do is point me to a brand new band-aid they call Concord Pro that is a pseudo-integration effort that has no demos or documentation available. After I explained the workflow of Eagle/F360 he put me on hold to talk to one of his FAE's for about 5 minutes. He came back with nothing to offer other than a quote that did not address any technical or workflow challenge that I face. I asked what the value proposition was, he had nothing to say. If I spent $9500 for Altium (plus annual maint of about $1500) and reinstated my Solidworks license (~approx $5500 or so) - What do I get out of the $15k? Not much and a disjointed ECAD/MCAD workflow on top.

AD is fantastic. Solidworks Premium is fantastic. They are standalone applications that only have crude options for integration.
Eagle/F360 is 5% less function for 95% lower cost = a pretty outstanding value for any business that does not need the extra 5% function.

From the post-call email....
Code: [Select]
So these are the promos:

Altium Designer: floating, perpetual commercial license + 2 free years of subscription/maintenance = $7995 ($13k value)

Concord Pro: library data-management tool; Concord Pro ($2500/year) + User ($500/user/year) = $1500 ($9000 value/3 years) (promo on this is $1500 per user will give you this tool free for 3 years)

It is kind of hard explaining the Concord Pro promo so if you did not understand please let me know. Once we make the info on Concord Pro public, I will send you a link to that. And If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me and I will be more than happy to help. Thank you and I hope to hear from you soon.

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Offline macegr

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2019, 05:41:34 am »
You can hire people skilled in Altium, and you can hire people skilled in Solidworks. You can send either type of file to any design or manufacturing company worth their salt and they will also have people skilled in understanding and using these files. It's not a great option for a hobbyist, but a typical industry is rightly horrified at the idea of the PCB layout designer ever touching the mechanical CAD files. Not only is it worthwhile to have actual experts in a task rather than a bunch of jumped-up interns waiting for a cloud-based tool to recover from an authentication meltdown, many companies also have to document and justify the reasons for every change they make in the process of creating a product.

None of this relates to Eagle or Kicad or Fusion 360 in the slightest, they aren't comparable tools, have almost no overlap in customer base, and shouldn't be compared either on merit or cost. I can be upset at the infection of SaaS spreading into the tools I want to use while knowing what Altium and Solidworks cost.
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #66 on: May 19, 2019, 12:29:20 am »
If I spent $9500 for Altium (plus annual maint of about $1500)

what does annual maintenance do?

The annual maintenance primarily props up Altium and pays for all the trade shows they go to. A small percentage seems to go into the product.
In effect....the $1500 does not get you much. I suffered the same annual cash outflow for a number of high-end software products. Eventually, I just started skipping updates for years, but the software manufactures retaliated with BIG penalties. They effectively force you to pay now....so I abandoned Solidworks and  Mastercam for Fusion360 and declined to jump into Altium in favor of Eagle. It is very clear and obvious the Eagle is far less of a product, but since cash is king - it is winning at the moment.
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Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #67 on: May 19, 2019, 12:41:36 am »
Here is an area that Eagle sucks beyond comprehension:

 THE LIBRARY

It is such a mess, even on the best of days. Yes, there are workarounds and many people have figured out how to make the best of this pile of pig poo. In the end - it is the worst part of the Eagle experience by a large margin.

That negative view has been tempered by a recent system crash that I had. My old Windows 7 system that was my primary design workstation finally took a dive. I was not really worried and got another system to replace it rather quickly. I had made a considerable effort to backup all my user data both local and offsite and all of it was sperate from the system disk anyway....or so I thought.

The new managed library system in Eagle is required if you need to use the 3D models of the parts. I did not fully understand the way it worked but found out the hard way. It saves the data on your system drive as /appdata/ so it is not bundled with any of my other user data. It only goes to the cloud if you intentionally save a new version under the Library menu. When I got my new system up and running, the managed libraries are >1week out of date. That was the week that I spent 40 hours updating all the part data for a new design - hundreds of parts were painstakingly updated and it appears that data is gone. It did not save with everything else.

What a kludgy mess.
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Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #68 on: May 19, 2019, 01:54:16 am »
I am not sure how large it is. My current problem is that I did not know the managed libraries were located in the /user/appdata/.....location which is not part of the backup.
I just figured out that about a week before the system tanked, I had pulled a VM image that was able to boot up in VMWare.

Eagle was able to open and I created a new version of the managed library - effectively recovering some data. There is still some missing information.

Now, I am manually going through the remaining parts and updating the attributes. I cannot tell how many there are since I can only take it one part at a time.

Going forward, I am not sure how to best manage this kind of thing. The best option seems to be 'just remember to create a new version' since Eagle does not do this automatically. Before managed libraries, I simply had my data folders automatically backed up and all was taken care of. I keep all the configuration/preferences related files on my NAS - which is always off-site backed up.



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Offline rachaelp

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #69 on: May 19, 2019, 01:13:24 pm »
The new managed library system in Eagle is required if you need to use the 3D models of the parts.

That was true when the 3D integration with Fusion360 first came along but it's not been the case that all your libraries need to be managed for a long time now and since 9.4 it's been possible to add models to parts from within a design thus avoiding managed libraries altogether if that's your preference (but not ideal because your associations for models are within the scope of that design). Just have a single managed library to map STEP models to footprints and then copy the pair back into your proper (non managed) libraries and all the 3D integrations still work fine.

Going forward, I am not sure how to best manage this kind of thing. The best option seems to be 'just remember to create a new version' since Eagle does not do this automatically. Before managed libraries, I simply had my data folders automatically backed up and all was taken care of. I keep all the configuration/preferences related files on my NAS - which is always off-site backed up.

Just don't use managed libraries, they cause more issues than they solve, and use the method I use as described above and (and on the Autodesk forum) to manage associating STEP models to footprints. It works 100% flawlessly and I can back up all my library data just the same way I have in EAGLE for many years. Fortunately for me I realised very soon that the managed libraries system was a recipe for disaster so held off using the Fusion 360 integrations until it was possible to do it without jumping fulling into managed library hell. Hopefully you can get the remainder of your lost data back without too much more pain.

Best Regards,

Rachael
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Offline sauerwald

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2019, 11:33:32 pm »
I worked for 25 years for National Semiconductor/Texas Instruments which was an Altium shop.   Overlapping that for a bit, and now my main thing, I have a small separate company where I design build and manufacture a niche (small volume ) product.   For my own company I used Eagle for PCB.   For the work that I did for TI (5Gbps serial interfaces), Altium was a great tool, and I loved the component library that TI maintained for it.   The cost of Altium was out of reach so I used Eagle for my own designs.  I bought the full professional license for Eagle and there are many things where I feel Eagle does a better job than Altium does - I like the fact that the Schematic and Board are kept in sync all the time, rather than having to run ECOs to bring them back into sync - and I liked the large library of ULPs that are available for Eagle to do all sorts of cool things - the 8X difference in cost was also a plus.   When AutoCAD bought eagle, I was worried (and still am), but it hasn't been as bad as I had feared.   The subscription cost for Eagle is reasonable and I am able to keep everything local.   
I also found that I needed to do some mechanical designs - and for that, I added on a subscription to Fusion 360 to my Eagle Subscription.   Although I got a couple of designs done in that, it was a disaster, largely because it is all cloud based, and it and I never really gelled.   I thought that part of the issue was just my lack of familiarity with MCAD in general, so I tool a CAD class at a local community college - where they taught Solidworks.
I now use Solidworks for MCAD and Eagle for ECAD, and it works - I can ship designs from Eagle to Solidworks by exporting STEP models - which is clunky but it works.   My biggest gripe with Eagle is that I'd like to see better tools for managing libraries (my libraries, not libraries in the cloud).


 

Offline Sylvi

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #71 on: August 01, 2019, 06:20:48 pm »
Hey

I'm using the same Eagle package I bought in 2003 and will never change. It was the pro package for the day and I paid one time and can put it on as many computers as i need to (since computers don't last a terribly long time).

Now i see that Autodesk has taken over eagle it is all by SUBSCRIPTION - no more BUY IT ONCE !! To me that is reason enough never to "upgrade".

Now this thread suggests that much of Eagle is gong cloud-based? has the whole world gone mad?

The cloud is Google's server and Google has pretty much turned into the kind of company that paranoid people think all companies are - megalomaniac. For example, a couple of years ago I bought a Chrome desktop because it was super cheap and the linux computer I had could no longer access Digikey and Mouser - then other thing became inaccessible. One day i turn on the chrome thingy and the desktop has changed. Did I change it? no. Did I request it to be changed? no. Google decided that my experience with my computer should change for no reason other than they can (and supposedly so that a standadrd desktop can be used for all the silly portable toy computers and tablets - none of which i use). google had also eliminated opting out of automatic updates and a lot of people were annoyed by that. At that instant I knew Google was as close to being "evil" as companies get these days and got linux mint for other computer and no longer use the chrome craptop.

The whole "thin web browser" is crap too - you can't even print things. I used a USB key to transfer files to my other computer that was connected to a printer.

When I got that chrome thing, the fine print said I have 2-years free access to the cloud... whoa... that means you have to pay for it at some point - hopefully well after you've committed all your personal files to the thing and have no way to have local storage.

I'm not paranoid but I do value having control over my own security, and that means using an off-line computer for Eagle design work and for customer data and book keeping. Why should any of that be in an online computer? think about your own security and privacy.

yes, Eagle is buggy but what software isn't? I don't really understand the "library" complaints above. How difficult is it to make parts, make libraries, access parts using the "add" command? When I started to learn eagle there was a whole lot of basic computer file management that I had to learn,, too, but I got over the hump and use eagle almost every day. I do not use the auto router. I made a mechanical library for laying out chassis and checking space and such like, so have no need to connect eagle with another program to learn.  many of my own products have several boards, up to thirty or so in a few products but once over sixty. Really, it is just a matter of visualising the end product and then inputting it into Eagle the right way..

I like my old eagle! I own it and it has paid for itself many times over.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 06:25:48 pm by Sylvi »
 

Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #72 on: August 01, 2019, 11:58:45 pm »
Google's telephone number is 666

Eagle 7.3 and will NEVER upgrade my paid license. I agree with you. There is however, more stuff in 7.3 than 4.16 as I used to use. The main thing was to change the look and feel mouse and menu functions back to the way 4.xx used to function. That and blocking it in my firewall.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 12:03:11 am by Quarlo Klobrigney »
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Offline Karel

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #73 on: August 02, 2019, 08:21:50 am »
Why not using V7.7? It's the last version before autodesk put their claws on it.
You can find it here: ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program/7.7/
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the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #74 on: August 02, 2019, 10:00:04 am »
Why not using V7.7? It's the last version before autodesk put their claws on it.
You can find it here: ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program/7.7/

It's actually the first release after Autodesk put their claws on it -- but the last before they switched it to subscription. It seems that they made superficial changes only compared to 7.6: https://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/blog/eagle-7-7-out-now/

I would assume that this was still done by the CADsoft team, so hopefully they didn't break anything. But I will stick with my trusted 7.6 anyway, and live without net names overlaid on traces...
 


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