Eagle v6 no longer FREE?

[EEVblog]

I've heard that the upcoming v6 Eagle software won't have a free version available, anyone know if this is true?

Dave.

[amspire]

“The best-selling CAD tool (EAGLE) for PCB design just got better, and we will deliver the latest EAGLE V6 free to new and upgrading customers after release,” said Thomas Liratsch, CadSoft’s General Manager. “EAGLE V6.0 is agile and intuitive, so design engineers can easily design, replicate, move, transpose, and even copy/paste schematics – saving them time and effort. Simply put, the new release of EAGLE takes designer friendliness and freedom to a whole new experience.”    19th October

I don't think they have said what you get for free though.

Richard

[IanB]

we will deliver the latest EAGLE V6 free to new and upgrading customers

I read that to say paying customers will get the upgrade to V6 without paying extra. Taking the words literally, you would have to be a customer first before you would get the free upgrade.

[amspire]

we will deliver the latest EAGLE V6 free to new and upgrading customers

I read that to say paying customers will get the upgrade to V6 without paying extra. Taking the words literally, you would have to be a customer first before you would get the free upgrade.

I get what you mean - he may mean free users are not customers. If you are a new V5 customer, you will get V6 free. But then you would be an upgrading customer, so why did he mention "new" customers.

Or it will be, as he said, delivered to new customers free. But then you have to pay to use it.

I am glad Thomas Liratsch has done such a great job clarifying the situation.

Back to my Build 3188 Kicad that I compiled myself.

[ehughes]

I went through there pricing and it appears that there will not be a free hobbiest version.

I use Altium now but I used Eagle V4 for a long while and eagle 5 a good bit.   When they were bought by Newark,  things went down hill.  I think some of the key programmers left (based upon posts on teh newsgroups)

The Newark "corporate" takeover is moving it in the wrong direction......

I wish Altium sieze this oppurtunnity. I recently posted on there forum about this, it will be ignored though.  Until they absolutely say no they will no make a cheap version in plain english, I will keep bugging them.  I pay full price for it but would by a couple extra hobby seats....

[EEVblog]

I went through there pricing and it appears that there will not be a free hobbiest version.

I use Altium now but I used Eagle V4 for a long while and eagle 5 a good bit.   When they were bought by Newark,  things went down hill.  I think some of the key programmers left (based upon posts on teh newsgroups)

The Newark "corporate" takeover is moving it in the wrong direction......

I wish Altium sieze this oppurtunnity. I recently posted on there forum about this, it will be ignored though.  Until they absolutely say no they will no make a cheap version in plain english, I will keep bugging them.  I pay full price for it but would by a couple extra hobby seats....

Yes, keep bugging them, please. I'd back you up, but I've been banned from the forum 

Dave.

[Jon Chandler]

Finding anything on their new web page is next to impossible, but with a little searching, I found this price table.  There's no free version listed.  The light version seems to be what the free version used to be and it's $49.  There is a "hobbyist" version which has more features but it's $149 and for non-commercial use only.

[Jimmy]

$149 is reasonable for me to pay.

[Jon Chandler]

The trouble is the agreement you have to sign for the hobbyist edition.  Part of the agreement is quoted here:

DECLARATION
With this declaration I assure that the EAGLE Hobbyist license I bought under my name will be used exclusively for non-commercial purposes. I am aware that files generated with this copy of the program can be identified by CadSoft. I am not part of an educational or non-commercial institution.

What exactly defines a commercial purpose is not clear.  If you make some boards and give a few to friends or sell them here to cover costs, is it considered commercial?  Or if you release the board under a Creative Commons license and somebody else decides to sell copies at a small profit, can this come back to haunt you?

One "feature" I've never liked is that all modules (schematic, layout, router) have to be licensed at the same level.  I have the professional version of layout because I've had to make some physically large boards to fit in enclosures.  The circuits aren't complex and any version of schematic would accommodate my circuits, but I must use the same (expensive) level or not at all.

[mikeselectricstuff]

$149 is reasonable for me to pay.

Not for something that doesn't allow commercial use it isn't.

The only reason Eagle is as popular as it is was the free version - without it people will go elsewhere, and as it now appears there are viable open source alternatives, as well as other free packages like Designspark, looks like Eagle are no longer interested in this market.
Maybe they've decided it isn't worth the hassle.

[EEVblog]

The trouble is the agreement you have to sign for the hobbyist edition.  Part of the agreement is quoted here:

DECLARATION
With this declaration I assure that the EAGLE Hobbyist license I bought under my name will be used exclusively for non-commercial purposes. I am aware that files generated with this copy of the program can be identified by CadSoft. I am not part of an educational or non-commercial institution.

What exactly defines a commercial purpose is not clear.  If you make some boards and give a few to friends or sell them here to cover costs, is it considered commercial?  Or if you release the board under a Creative Commons license and somebody else decides to sell copies at a small profit, can this come back to haunt you?

That's the confusing aspect I've talked about on The AmpHour before.
i.e. if you design some open source hardware and give away the gerber files then someone else CAN profit from project but you as the original designer CANNOT because  you used the software to generate income and the other person did not (so the answer to your last question is no, not if they use the gerber outputs)

And then of course there is stupid size limit restriction which means that if you want to design a simple single sided PCB with a couple fo LEDs on it, but it happens to be 161mm or greater long, you have to pay $1000 for the full package.
Crazy.

Dave.

[tnt]

Maybe wait for an actual announcement or official confirmation before bashing them ...

The price list posted is the same that has always existed and it never included the free version. (The "light" is _not_ the free version, the "light" has no limitations about commercial usage and has always existed AFAICR).

[McMonster]

I hate limiting my choices, even when it's about propertiary or freeware apps. But I would never pay that much for a limited version of CAD software, unless there were no alternatives. So look on the bright side, people will now use more free CADs, like gEDA and KiCAD. I think this will have a good effect on the community in a longer run and will certainly encourage people to develop those free suites faster. There are also lots of Eagle libraries that can be converted.

[FreeThinker]

Maybe they've decided it isn't worth the hassle.

Lets hope so and they now turn out a PROFFESIONAL product with modern interface and gui.

[alm]

Maybe wait for an actual announcement or official confirmation before bashing them ...

The price list posted is the same that has always existed and it never included the free version. (The "light" is _not_ the free version, the "light" has no limitations about commercial usage and has always existed AFAICR).

Agreed. I find it extremely unlikely that they would discontinue the free version, and would wait for a definitive statement before drawing conclusions from a price list which doesn't list free products.

[aard3]

Maybe they've decided it isn't worth the hassle.

Lets hope so and they now turn out a PROFFESIONAL product with modern interface and gui.

+1... But from their youtube video it doesn't look like it... just looks like they added some more features,and decided to change their parts library.

I almost wish they would do away with their Free version, so the hobbyist community would move over to something else. lol.

[FreeThinker]

Maybe they've decided it isn't worth the hassle.

Lets hope so and they now turn out a PROFFESIONAL product with modern interface and gui.

+1... But from their youtube video it doesn't look like it... just looks like they added some more features,and decided to change their parts library.

I almost wish they would do away with their Free version, so the hobbyist community would move over to something else. lol.

Hmm! If they did decided  to drop the free version what would you use instead? I like design spark and diptrace but only make very simple pcb's on a very occasional basis. (one of the reasons I dislike Eagle, it is not intuitive and so you forget quite quickly how do do something that would take you 2 mins in Diptrace and spend half an hour reading the help file)

[Spiro]

My honest opinion about EAGLE: EAGLE is crap.
For 49$ I would rather buy Sprint Layout 5.

[Zero999]

I've tried Eagle but didn't like it. I tried cracking it to get the full feature set for free but still didn't get on with it.

I'm not surprised by any of this.

There's no incentive to use pay for the hobbyist version because it's a privacy risk. If you want to use it for commercial use on the cheap, you're better off pirating it properly, then at least there's no way to track the files created by it back to you.

It pisses me of when people talk about Eagle being free when it isn't. Even if you use the non-pay version you've got no freedom to do what you want with it. If they've discontinued the so-called free version what can you do? CADSoft could make it impossible for you to install older version legally on a new computer because I'm pretty sure the license forbids redistribution.

[aard3]

Maybe they've decided it isn't worth the hassle.

Lets hope so and they now turn out a PROFFESIONAL product with modern interface and gui.

+1... But from their youtube video it doesn't look like it... just looks like they added some more features,and decided to change their parts library.

I almost wish they would do away with their Free version, so the hobbyist community would move over to something else. lol.

Hmm! If they did decided  to drop the free version what would you use instead? I like design spark and diptrace but only make very simple pcb's on a very occasional basis. (one of the reasons I dislike Eagle, it is not intuitive and so you forget quite quickly how do do something that would take you 2 mins in Diptrace and spend half an hour reading the help file)

Through different jobs I've used a lot of design packages, Orcad/Cadence, PADS, and now Altium. A while ago I was looking for something for just little projects at home, so I checked them all out...

Eagle's UI was simply terrible... I mean so bad, I think that they should be charged with crimes against humanity for developing that POS. To me it's so sad that so many students, hobbyists and new engineers have to work with it.

DesignSpark isn't a lot better... to me it was more of a "windows 3.11" style, whereas Eagle reminded me of some bad open source project. Plus they have some crazy activation scheme that made me scared they would shut it off at any time.

TinyCad/FreePCB - Both seem like good little programs (for free as-in-beer), but they were just missing features and weren't integrated enough. But the seemed easy to use.

KiCad... Didn't like how they dealt with the libraries, and it had that "linux" like feel... plus not a lot of support.

list goes on...


I finally settled on Diptrace, and think that Diptrace is without a doubt the best for a hobbyist hands down.... it intuitive, and easy to use. And their support is great... responsive and knowledgeable e-mails. They also have a way better "free" version... the limit is based on number of pins, not the physical size of the board! It's 300 pins I think by default, but if you need more, you can request a free upgrade to 500. I purchased the non-profit license for $125 US, which got me 4 Layer, 1000 pins... I use it for stuff at home. At work and for more complicated stuff,  I have access to Altium.

Aaron

[48X24X48X]

I finally settled on Diptrace, and think that Diptrace is without a doubt the best for a hobbyist hands down.... it intuitive, and easy to use. And their support is great... responsive and knowledgeable e-mails. They also have a way better "free" version... the limit is based on number of pins, not the physical size of the board! It's 300 pins I think by default, but if you need more, you can request a free upgrade to 500. I purchased the non-profit license for $125 US, which got me 4 Layer, 1000 pins... I use it for stuff at home. At work and for more complicated stuff,  I have access to Altium.

The free version is 500 pins 2 layer! No area limitation. And no sign this, sign that form.

[alm]

From http://www.cadsoftusa.com/betatest/:

With the Freeware license you should be able to test most of the new features of EAGLE. However, the new capabilities like reordering schematic sheets in the new sheet thumbnails view and moving a group from one schematic sheet to another require a Standard or Professional license. If you have a license that is valid only for version 5 or before, and you want to test the new capabilities listed above, you will need to contact your dealer for an update to version 6.

Doesn't sound like the free version is discontinued to me.

[EEVblog]

I finally settled on Diptrace, and think that Diptrace is without a doubt the best for a hobbyist hands down.... it intuitive, and easy to use. And their support is great... responsive and knowledgeable e-mails. They also have a way better "free" version... the limit is based on number of pins, not the physical size of the board! It's 300 pins I think by default, but if you need more, you can request a free upgrade to 500. I purchased the non-profit license for $125 US, which got me 4 Layer, 1000 pins... I use it for stuff at home. At work and for more complicated stuff,  I have access to Altium.

The free version is 500 pins 2 layer! No area limitation. And no sign this, sign that form.

Sounds like DIPtrace have it right. I have to try this!

Dave.

[wayneft]

I finally settled on Diptrace, and think that Diptrace is without a doubt the best for a hobbyist hands down.... it intuitive, and easy to use. And their support is great... responsive and knowledgeable e-mails. They also have a way better "free" version... the limit is based on number of pins, not the physical size of the board! It's 300 pins I think by default, but if you need more, you can request a free upgrade to 500. I purchased the non-profit license for $125 US, which got me 4 Layer, 1000 pins... I use it for stuff at home. At work and for more complicated stuff,  I have access to Altium.

The free version is 500 pins 2 layer! No area limitation. And no sign this, sign that form.

Sounds like DIPtrace have it right. I have to try this!

Dave.

But it's still non commercial so you can't profit from using the free 500 pin 2 layer version.

DipTrace quote
"DipTrace Non-Profit License

Novarm offers a special license for hobbyists who need more power than provided by Freeware Edition, but don't want to spend the price of commercial version. This special license is granted on a non-profit base, which means that it must not be used in any commercial purposes (you must not earn money from using it). See the list of available options and prices below. "

[firewalker]

"You must not earn money using it".

Absolutely stupendous. WTF do they have inside their head? Is it void? I suggest to those companies to change it to something like

"You must not earn or save money using it".

I would totally respect if they were just selling the product with out those "free/cheap" options. Take your stupid licenses and shove it...

Alexander.

[firewalker]

Yes, keep bugging them, please. I'd back you up, but I've been banned from the forum 

Dave.

What did you do to them, you bad boy. 

Alexander.

[EEVblog]

What did you do to them, you bad boy. 

They didn't like some things I said, just like they didn't like me using the their trademarked name by registering altiumforum.com 

Dave.

[firewalker]

I really can't understand the way a company like Altixx thinks and acts. Lets suppose that for those things, responsible is a stupid person/s to the wrong position. What is the company's defense system against this? Because (for me) the way they act make the company look bad.

I can;t believe that such a brand name like Altixx, as an "entity", behaves with such a moronic way. Can it?

Is it just "Screw Dave, or any Dave. They can't bring us money"?

Maybe Altiuxx will read this and will answer. 

Alexander.

What did you do to them, you bad boy. 

They didn't like some things I said, just like they didn't like me using the their trademarked name by registering altiumforum.com 

Dave.

[EEVblog]

I really can't understand the way a company like Altixx thinks and acts. Lets suppose that for those things, responsible is a stupid person/s to the wrong position. What is the company's defense system against this? Because (for me) the way they act make the company look bad.

Their defense mechanism is to is simply ignore everyone and everything, it's the Altixx way or the highway, take it or leave it.

I can;t believe that such a brand name like Altixx, as an "entity", behaves with such a moronic way. Can it?

Is it just "Screw Dave, or any Dave. They can't bring us money"?

Maybe Altiuxx will read this and will answer. 

Altixx specialise in shooting themselves in the foot at every available opportunity, in the quest for this months idealistic dream.
They have demonstrated it time and time again with almost everything they do and every direction they take, and it still continues to amaze me.
Take the FPGA dream. They floated the company, pissed away all the money they ever got over more than a decade, and the result is a novel yet unmaintainable system that hardly anyone uses.
It's a massive shame, because it's such a great tool, and a fundamentally good company with great people. They could have been the #1 PCB/schematic tool vendor in the world with more cash than you could poke a stick at, but that wasn't satisfying enough for them.
It's only their loyal PCB customer base who have keep the Titanic afloat.

Dave.

[Zero999]

I hope the next version of Eagle is either not available for free or is made completely free and open source (fat chance). Mainly because it's shit but also because it will encourage KiCad development.

[McMonster]

I hope the next version of Eagle is either not available for free or is made completely free and open source (fat chance). Mainly because it's shit but also because it will encourage KiCad development.

And gEDA and other CADs, free software ones in the best case, but not exclusively. Alternatives are always needed because it encourages the development of each other and leaves people a choice. I hate having limited options.

[alm]

While competition is good, also for free software, a larger user base is also important. Especially for things like footprint libraries, available tutorials and support. I can see how Eagle discontinuing the free license might make an end to the almost complete dominance of Eagle in the hobbyist segment. Although I find it hard to believe that they would be this stupid, it would be essentially suicide for Eagle in my opinion. Maybe Altium wants to buy them from Farnell?

[slburris]

Just another vote for Diptrace here.  I was an Eagle user for
many years, tried Diptrace, actually payed real money for the standard
version, and I've never looked back.

Scott

[EEVblog]

Although I find it hard to believe that they would be this stupid, it would be essentially suicide for Eagle in my opinion.

I would be, and they know it, so it won't ever happen.

Maybe Altium wants to buy them from Farnell?

Farnell paid more for Eagle than Altium's entire market worth a few months back!
Altium wouldn't have to buy anything, they could crush Eagle overnight with a re-compile and a change of attitude. They foolishly choose not too.

Dave.

[alm]

Maybe Altium wants to buy them from Farnell?

Farnell paid more for Eagle than Altium's entire market worth a few months back!
Altium wouldn't have to buy anything, they could crush Eagle overnight with a re-compile and a change of attitude. They foolishly choose not too.

Altium would be quite good at handling the shooting themselves in the foot and suicide part.

Does Eagle actually enjoy any significant market share outside the hobbyist/maker crowd? I know they basically own the Arduino/open hardware/maker market, but what would they have left after losing them? It's not like they have a compelling product compared to the many other commercial competitors.

[westfw]

Altium ... could crush Eagle overnight with a re-compile and a change of attitude.

Neglecting that EAGLE could retaliate with a mere change of policy as well...

It's not like [EAGLE has] a compelling product compared to the many other commercial competitors.

The feeling I've gotten (from the EAGLE forums, mainly) is that EAGLE is pretty popular among small shops that would rather not spend more than $1500/seat for their CAD package.  A lot of the 'compellingly better'  packages are in the $5k range, aren't they?

I'd be pretty unhappy to give up EAGLE's ULP capability; do other packages have something similar?

[alm]

Altium ... could crush Eagle overnight with a re-compile and a change of attitude.

Neglecting that EAGLE could retaliate with a mere change of policy as well...

The issue with this is that Eagle can only compete on price. If Altium sold a version with enough features to compete with Eagle for $500, this would get them most of the small business customers. If Altium made a free version for hobbyists, this could severely hurt Eagle's market share.

[EEVblog]

Altium ... could crush Eagle overnight with a re-compile and a change of attitude.

Neglecting that EAGLE could retaliate with a mere change of policy as well...

Not when Altium's tool is vastly superior in virtually every way. Except maybe the auto-router, but lets not go there...

Dave.

[Greg J]

The free version is 500 pins 2 layer! No area limitation. And no sign this, sign that form.

Sounds like DIPtrace have it right. I have to try this!

And they have MAC version ! Very important to some !

As some who knows open source and works with it a lot (I'm KDE contributor), and as software engineer mainly by day - I have to say that gEDA is an utter shit. Not even an option, not even close.
I know these guys are trying hard, and donate their time - great. But usability isn't really high on their agendas. I
 tried to draw simple schematic in gEDA, very simple one (two 741, 4 transistors, and comparator) - and it was next to impossible !
Didn't even got to the PCB stage, because I'd rather use Eagle.

Now don't get me wrong, usability isn't very high on Eagle developers agenda either. But it is so much better then gEDA, despite its shittness.
I wish open source folk took usability seriously. If they want anyone to actually consider their software serious alternative to anything.

[metalphreak]

V6 still has the same "Light" version.

The following limitations apply to the EAGLE Light Edition in general:
The useable board area is limited to 100 x 80 mm (4 x 3.2 inches).
Only two signal layers can be used (Top and Bottom).
The schematic editor can only create one sheet.

Free for non-commercial use. $69 for a commercial license.

The hobbyist license for $169 is basically the same as the $820 standard except no commercial use. Not really sure who would pay that much to make 6 layer boards, that they'd only use personally... Seems a bit silly. The size restrictions are just annoying.

[48X24X48X]

I think they increase the price compared to the previous version.

[mikeselectricstuff]

The size restrictions are just annoying.

Wonder if you could draw everything half size then rescale the gerbers afterwards 

[EEVblog]

Maybe Altium wants to buy them from Farnell?

*snort*
Altium's current market capitalisation is worth less than what Farnell paid for Eagle. A shame for the once great Altium, worth 1/4 to 1/2 Billion dollars at their peak IIRC.
Altium pissed away what money they had left on their good buddies Morfik.

Dave.

[ejeffrey]

Does Eagle actually enjoy any significant market share outside the hobbyist/maker crowd? I know they basically own the Arduino/open hardware/maker market, but what would they have left after losing them? It's not like they have a compelling product compared to the many other commercial competitors.

I don't know numbers, but it is reasonably popular in academic circles and small businesses as well as home hobbyists.  If your job is not circuit design, but you occasionally have to draw up a PCB as part of a project, the cost benefit analysis favors a cheap tool with a fast learning curve over an expensive tool that requires a lot more effort to get started.  If PCB design is a big enough part of your business that you have people doing that full time, the up-front costs in licensing and training are worth the long term productivity.

[MarkS]

The useable board area is limited to 100 x 80 mm (4 x 3.2 inches).

I wish they would calculate this based on area and not edge lengths. Your board can be 100x80, but NOT 80x100 or 200x40 or... That always irritated me.

[hugos31]

basic free    PCB WIZARD    http://www.new-wave-concepts.com/pr/wizard.html