EAGLE V7

[Carrington]

Hi all. 

I just received an email from Eurocircuits. And yes, EAGLE V7 will be released in July! 

More Info: http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/eurocircuits-printed-circuits-blog/eagle-v70

[zapta]

"Also, you will be required to indicate your HostID as described in the V7 License Agreement."

Doesn't sound good.

[Carrington]

"Also, you will be required to indicate your HostID as described in the V7 License Agreement."

Doesn't sound good.

Why?

[zapta]

Why?

Because I don't want to depend on the vendor if I move it between computers.   Currently I have a fixed serial number and I just paste it in with zero dependency on the vendor.

[Carrington]

Why?

Because I don't want to depend on the vendor if I move it between computers.   Currently I have a fixed serial number and I just paste it in with zero dependency on the vendor.

Usually is a MAC address, easy to modify.
But you may have problems with other software.

[marshallh]

What are the new features? Is it less crappy?

[Carrington]

What are the new features? Is it less crappy?

New features:

  - Hierarchical schematic design, which allows the designer to create structured schematic drawings.  The top sheet  can contain module boxes representing parts of the schematic.
  - Improvement of the autorouter: A new router algorithm pre-routes the layout.  The result is smoother tracking with fewer angles.
  - Support for multi-core processors. This will allow EAGLE  to route simultaneously several jobs (with different settings).

[centon1]

I've never seen anything covered in words like "Arduino" and "maker" that was a good example of proper design

That may be true, but back in the day, NASA spent a million dollars designing a pen that could write in Space...

The Russians used a pencil.

[msr]

 Hierarchical schematic design? FINALLY! But hierarchical layout would be much more useful Is it also included? Let's see.

[mariush]

That may be true, but back in the day, NASA spent a million dollars designing a pen that could write in Space...

The Russians used a pencil.

Not sure if you're joking or not... if you're not, this is just a myth, never happened. 

There was a pen, it did cost millions to research, but it was a private company that did it without nasa money and then basically gave them the pens for nothing. 
The russians didn't use pencils because pencils contain graphite in the tip which can float inside the shuttles and go into equipment and cause short circuits, fires etc etc

[zapta]

Not sure if you're joking or not... if you're not, this is just a myth, never happened. 

There was a pen, it did cost millions to research, but it was a private company that did it without nasa money and then basically gave them the pens for nothing. 
The russians didn't use pencils because pencils contain graphite in the tip which can float inside the shuttles and go into equipment and cause short circuits, fires etc etc

You just ruined a good story ;-)

BTW, I heard that the ball pen was also designed for aviation because fountain pens leaked in high altitudes.

[AlfBaz]

I've never seen anything covered in words like "Arduino" and "maker" that was a good example of proper design

That may be true, but back in the day, NASA spent a million dollars designing a pen that could write in Space...

The Russians used a pencil.

Its all a moot point as most arduino users use crayons 

[zapta]

Its all a moot point as most arduino users use crayons 

The hate that keeps giving...

[AlfBaz]

The hate that keeps giving...

Hate is such a soft word

[Kjelt]

If it is only those three changes I am not very interested of upgrading since I never use the auto-router.
That is unless the upgradeprice is really low (that way I am already prepared for v8 which might have more interesting upgrades).
And I agree on the computerlocking, it is a pain in the ass. I have a compiler that has that, changed my hdd to ssd bang had to call the company to change the license again.
Then I normally change (upgrade) my computers/laptops each 3years, where did I have that license key etc. etc.. 

[Fred27]

I've been using Eagle 6.5 on a Surface Pro recently. Using a pen for the layout is quite nice in some ways.

I hope they've thought about Windows 8 and touch screens when working on 7.0. The lack of consideration of high DPI screens (e.g. the tiny buttons that can't be changed) is the biggest problem I found on the Surface.

[abaxas]

I've never seen anything covered in words like "Arduino" and "maker" that was a good example of proper design

That may be true, but back in the day, NASA spent a million dollars designing a pen that could write in Space...

The Russians used a pencil.

Its all a moot point as most arduino users use crayons 

Only issue is that by the time you realize, they'll be your boss.

[metta]

I've been using Eagle 6.5 on a Surface Pro recently. Using a pen for the layout is quite nice in some ways.

I'm surprised this isn't more common for PCB design in general.

[Fred27]

I asked on element 14. Apparently the public beta will be available soon, but there's no improvements for touchscreens.

[senso]

I've been using Eagle 6.5 on a Surface Pro recently. Using a pen for the layout is quite nice in some ways.

I hope they've thought about Windows 8 and touch screens when working on 7.0. The lack of consideration of high DPI screens (e.g. the tiny buttons that can't be changed) is the biggest problem I found on the Surface.

Switch to linux, the buttons are so gigantic when using Eagle on linux that 6 of them dont even appear and you must click a down arrow to see them(rats-nets being the most used and the most annoying thing to go there and clicky clicky) 

[LukeW]

Hierarchical schematic layout is good. Obviously things like Altium have had that for a long time, but it will be good to have that capability in cheaper or free (if you accept the free licensing restrictions for your use) software. I don't know if other cheaper or free options such as Diptrace or kicad have hierarchical schematics.

And we've improved the autorouter? Wow, woo hoo. Is it still an autorouter? Well therefore it's still shit. People who know what they're doing still aren't going to use an autorouter even if it uses both cores oooh shiny.

[liquibyte]

Switch to linux, the buttons are so gigantic when using Eagle on linux that 6 of them dont even appear and you must click a down arrow to see them(rats-nets being the most used and the most annoying thing to go there and clicky clicky) 

I don't have this problem.  Adjust your screen resolution or get a better graphics driver but don't blame linux for your issues.

[Monkeh]

And we've improved the autorouter? Wow, woo hoo. Is it still an autorouter? Well therefore it's still shit. People who know what they're doing still aren't going to use an autorouter even if it uses both cores oooh shiny.

Uhm.. tell that to all the people designing high end gear using autorouters.

[hli]

The russians didn't use pencils because pencils contain graphite in the tip which can float inside the shuttles and go into equipment and cause short circuits, fires etc etc

Both used pencils: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_pen#Uses_in_the_U.S._and_Russian_space_programs

[jc101]

Launched my copy of Eagle and it come up "Your version of EAGLE is not up-to-date.  The new version 7.0.0 is available." - however CadSoft website front page mentions v7 Beta.

Has it actually been released yet?

[Monkeh]

Launched my copy of Eagle and it come up "Your version of EAGLE is not up-to-date.  The new version 7.0.0 is available." - however CadSoft website front page mentions v7 Beta.

Has it actually been released yet?

http://www.cadsoftusa.com/download-eagle/?language=en

[jc101]

Launched my copy of Eagle and it come up "Your version of EAGLE is not up-to-date.  The new version 7.0.0 is available." - however CadSoft website front page mentions v7 Beta.

Has it actually been released yet?

http://www.cadsoftusa.com/download-eagle/?language=en

Well, might give it a try, always up for a challenge

[Kjelt]

Does this mean it is a free upgrade?

[jc101]

Does this mean it is a free upgrade?

Only if you bought it on or after 15th April this year...

http://www.cadsoftusa.com/conditions-freeupgrade/

...which I have done.  Sadly, it seems there is no way to generate a licence as the web shops for CadSoft fall over with a variety of errors.  At least the install hasn't killed the previous version.

[Prime73]

Did they improved component search in libraries, and component management in general? this is the only thing I find annoying in Eagle. ( I use pro version)

[MagicSmoker]

I've been using EAGLE for about 6 years now (not by choice, originally) and the change to onerous 1990's era node-locked licensing in v7 annoys me to no end. And the fact that you have to more or less go through the entire upgrade process just to find out the price is the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Looks like I will be sticking with 6.5.0 for quite awhile, and then looking at jumping ship... I can't say I will miss EAGLE, but I did get quite good at using it over the years and don't really relish the thought of having to go through yet another steep learning curve for a new EDA program.

[Prime73]

Looks like I will be sticking with 6.5.0 for quite awhile, and then looking at jumping ship... I can't say I will miss EAGLE, but I did get quite good at using it over the years and don't really relish the thought of having to go through yet another steep learning curve for a new EDA program.

My thoughts exactly. Why they make it more difficult for consumer is beyond me

[WarSim]

Not sure if you're joking or not... if you're not, this is just a myth, never happened. 

There was a pen, it did cost millions to research, but it was a private company that did it without nasa money and then basically gave them the pens for nothing. 
The russians didn't use pencils because pencils contain graphite in the tip which can float inside the shuttles and go into equipment and cause short circuits, fires etc etc

You just ruined a good story ;-)

BTW, I heard that the ball pen was also designed for aviation because fountain pens leaked in high altitudes.

Yes fountain pens do leak with pleasure change.  But the ball point pen was invented because of the more common fountain pens leak due to vibration and shock. 

The invention came about because of all the black suit pockets not because not because aviation wanted to stop using pencils and carbon paper. 

After all a ruined suit is more important to more people than writing in an aircraft. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Kjelt]

Any (upgrade) prices published anywhere yet?

[Wilksey]

https://shop.cadsoft.de//upgrade/?language=en

Will give you the upgrade prices

[IanJ]

So, 460EU for me to upgrade means I'll give it a miss. I don't think there's enough in terms of differences over 6.6.0.

Ian.

[Wilksey]

Ouch!

I think it said somewhere if you bought a new license after a certain date (August last yr?) you can upgrade for free to 7, I guess the license upgrade / subscription  lasts for a year?

All we have is new icons, hierarchy and some autorouter fixes or upgrades, oh, and the flexlm license system which turns out is a bigger ball ache than the previous incarnation (and just as insecure).

[MagicSmoker]

So, 460EU for me to upgrade means I'll give it a miss. I don't think there's enough in terms of differences over 6.6.0.

Ian.

Thanks for revealing your upgrade price. Is that for the full professional version with autorouter, schematic entry and pcb layout?

And yeah, there aren't really any new features going from 6.5.0 or 6.6.0 to 7.0 so this is tantamount to paying to get saddled with node-locked licensing... No thanks.

[IanJ]

So, 460EU for me to upgrade means I'll give it a miss. I don't think there's enough in terms of differences over 6.6.0.

Ian.

Thanks for revealing your upgrade price. Is that for the full professional version with autorouter, schematic entry and pcb layout?

And yeah, there aren't really any new features going from 6.5.0 or 6.6.0 to 7.0 so this is tantamount to paying to get saddled with node-locked licensing... No thanks.

Yes the PRO version with AR, SCH & PCB. I had upgraded to the PRO version from Hobbyist Dec.13 when I decided to start selling boards.

Ian.

[Wilksey]

You could contact Farnell and ask them, they might cut you a deal?

Have you used the freeware version to see if you want to upgrade?
I don't think they have done any bug fixes with V7, or no significant ones in any case.

[Omicron]

I just received an email from CADSoft in which they say:

"...we have decided to withdraw the new License Management system with immediate effect. As of the 11th of August, 2014, all new EAGLe licenses will be delivered without a License Management tool. All current Eagle v7.0 licenses will when upgraded to v7.1 move back to the previous license model."

Seems someone at CADSoft was listening!

[Kjelt]

Or they have had so many complaints of licensing issues that they got swamped with extra work.

Edit: yep seems they had so many customer feedback that they took it out  :
http://www.cadsoftusa.com/2014/08/anderung-am-eagle-v7-lizenzmanagement/

[Wilksey]

That must cost them a few pennies, I doubt the FlexLM license system was cheap to incorporate.

Funny that they listen to people on that, yet the only thing (arguable) missing from Eagle is built in 3D viewing of the board (yes there are 3rd party tools, but it is very clunky!), they could also do with improving their RF toolbox and BGA capabilities also, I have emailed them several times but got no response on these matters.

[MagicSmoker]

I just received an email from CADSoft in which they say:

"...we have decided to withdraw the new License Management system with immediate effect. As of the 11th of August, 2014, all new EAGLe licenses will be delivered without a License Management tool. All current Eagle v7.0 licenses will when upgraded to v7.1 move back to the previous license model."

Seems someone at CADSoft was listening!

 

I will likely go ahead and upgrade, then, even though none of the other improvements (particularly to the autorouter) are terribly valuable to me. Well, the hierarchal schematic stuff might prove to be useful (but probably not - most of the things I design are "de novo").

 

[zapta]

Looks like I will be sticking with 6.5.0 for quite awhile, and then looking at jumping ship... I can't say I will miss EAGLE, but I did get quite good at using it over the years and don't really relish the thought of having to go through yet another steep learning curve for a new EDA program.

My thoughts exactly. Why they make it more difficult for consumer is beyond me

My thoughts exactly. Will sample Kicad every year or so and will jump ship when it will be good enough. Until then Eagle 6.5 is good enough for me and has wide support by vendors.

[Kjelt]

For €50 i probably upgrade my hobbieist license next month when the new version is there. Maybe not worth the new features ( wont need them) but affordable and i like to have new versions and who knows what they,ll build next.

[Wilksey]

According to the web blurb 7.1 is out Monday (11th).

I will never know why they went for the new licensing, I downloaded the 6.9 beta to run as freeware and it just point blank refused to install the freeware license.

Version 7.0 did actually manage to install the freeware license, but now they are moving it back, it just seems like a lot of faff for not a lot of benefit.

They should concentrate on new features, I can't really see any feature benefit from V6.0 to V7.0 apart from the hierarchy.  They are effectively charging people for bug fixes, even Microsoft doesn't do this, they release service packs for free.

[Kjelt]

Not true. Microsoft aborts their OS and IE product completely after some years and you have to buy the new product which now has a hopeless userinterface and after a few days you wish you had a different choice.

[zapta]

They should concentrate on new features,...

A push and shove manual router comes to mind.

[jaxbird]

Not true. Microsoft aborts their OS and IE product completely after some years...

Seriously? the standard for Microsoft free updates support cycle is 10 years. Windows XP was extended and was in full support for more than 12 years. After that only critical updates will be released.

Windows 7 should be good until 2019!

[WarSim]

Not true. Microsoft aborts their OS and IE product completely after some years...

Seriously? the standard for Microsoft free updates support cycle is 10 years. Windows XP was extended and was in full support for more than 12 years. After that only critical updates will be released.

Windows 7 should be good until 2019!

The only reason the support cycles are so large is because many of their fortune 5000+ customers refused to migrate.  Their bread and butter said keep supporting what we want or we choose a different system. 

XP support was stopped over three times.  The three stricken your out cause 2 that I know of to switch.  BTW it is unlikely that Microsoft learned anything from the venture.  Their expressed 3 year promo, 2 year migration cycle is likely still there behind the scenes. 

If you are part of a Fortune 5000+ company just ask your it department why XP has been around so long. 

[jaxbird]

The only reason the support cycles are so large is because many of their fortune 5000+ customers refused to migrate.  Their bread and butter said keep supporting what we want or we choose a different system. 

XP support was stopped over three times.  The three stricken your out cause 2 that I know of to switch.  BTW it is unlikely that Microsoft learned anything from the venture.  Their expressed 3 year promo, 2 year migration cycle is likely still there behind the scenes. 

If you are part of a Fortune 5000+ company just ask your it department why XP has been around so long.

My point was that MS support cycles are exceptionally long, seriously 10 years is a long time for a piece of software. And we are talking versions, it's not like the completely drop the product, likely by the time a support cycle ends there are at least 2 newer and more or less compatible versions available. And you can still continue to use the old version, you will just no longer receive frequent free updates.

If you have a full Technet subscription you can still get all the software they have released back to around Windows 3.1

Anyway sorry for derailing the Eagle V7 thread .

[WarSim]

The only reason the support cycles are so large is because many of their fortune 5000+ customers refused to migrate.  Their bread and butter said keep supporting what we want or we choose a different system. 

XP support was stopped over three times.  The three stricken your out cause 2 that I know of to switch.  BTW it is unlikely that Microsoft learned anything from the venture.  Their expressed 3 year promo, 2 year migration cycle is likely still there behind the scenes. 

If you are part of a Fortune 5000+ company just ask your it department why XP has been around so long.

My point was that MS support cycles are exceptionally long, seriously 10 years is a long time for a piece of software. And we are talking versions, it's not like the completely drop the product, likely by the time a support cycle ends there are at least 2 newer and more or less compatible versions available. And you can still continue to use the old version, you will just no longer receive frequent free updates.

If you have a full Technet subscription you can still get all the software they have released back to around Windows 3.1

Anyway sorry for derailing the Eagle V7 thread .

Learn your history a little better, if you want to get out of your little bubble of reality.  If not just ignore everything I shared.   

[jaxbird]

Learn your history a little better, if you want to get out of your little bubble of reality.  If not just ignore everything I shared.

Sorry, I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to, can you clarify?

I have been a senior lead SDE at MS for many years and also during the whole Vista, extension of XP support, Win7 release, perhaps you have some knowledge I'm not aware of?

[WarSim]

I have been a systems analyst since 1984.  I have retired but still have many friends very high up in IT departments ,Government and Fortune 5000+.  This is where I get my information. 

[jaxbird]

I have been a systems analyst since 1984.  I have retired but still have many friends very high up in IT departments ,Government and Fortune 5000+.  This is where I get my information.

Perhaps we should just be adults, as we clearly both are, leave it here, and let people discuss the Eagle V7 update features, policies and pricing

[Wilksey]

Wow,

My point was there is no Windows 6.0.0.1.2.0.2.2 etc, there is Windows 6.0 / 6.1 SP1, SP2, SP3 etc and so on.

Anyway, getting back on track...

I can't see the reason for 6.0 -> 7.0, the added "features" i.e. improved AR, hierarchy etc should have been 6.1 in my opinion.
6.0 should have stayed as 6.0 for minor tweaks and bug fixes with a revision or SP or something, they could have jumped major versions for something a bit more applausable like push n shove, 3D integration, new IDE etc etc, and kept minor for adding things like hierarchy etc.

[bronson]

US pro edition upgrade price:

Serial number ... V6.0
License period: Unlimited
Net price: USD 549.00

Has anyone upgraded?  How's the new UI?  Have they made grouping less tedious?  Can I have multiple files open at once?

If you still need a mess of ULPs to paper over all the obvious missing schematic and layout features, and part selection is still 1/4 regexes and 3/4 luck, then I'm definitely going to stick with 6.5...

[Wilksey]

Best thing to do is download the freeware version and try it, then you will know if you want to upgrade or not?

They may give you a time limited key perhaps to try a full professional license for a few days if you already have a key for 6.5 pro already, who knows.

To me it just looks fancier with the icons, I don't think they have done much else, I think they have added a few new ULP's not sure what for though.

[bronson]

Except that stands a decent chance of Fing up my local install.  It's happened before.  I don't want to risk the downtime.

I think I'll wait until I see a feature that looks like it's worth the upgrade price.  If anybody is on V7 and knows what's hugely better about it, especially UI-related, please do share.

[Wilksey]

Eagle 6.x installed to program files\eagle 6.x\
Eagle 7.x installs to c:\eagle 7.x\

I have 6.4, 6.5, 6.6, 7 and 7.1 installed on my system as long as you change your home directory and not overwrite defaults when first run, your files and settings will stay the same.

In answer to your question though, UI wise, different icons...pretty much it.
Hierarchy addition, if you've done without it so far...
Autorouter upgrade to use more than one core, if you autoroute large boards then it might be worth it, otherwise, probably not.

So summarise, if you don't care for icons, hierarchy support or the autorouter, then no, it's not worth the upgrade.

HTH!

[Kjelt]

.

[bronson]

Right on Wilksey, thanks!  Guess I'll wait.

[XFDDesign]

I actually just got the 7.1 upgrade from work. They announced that they're keeping to the old license model due to too much negative feedback.

I don't "do" the autorouter thing, never have, so I cannot comment on it.

What questions do you guys have about version 7?

[BloodyCactus]

the new icons threw me for a loop. I feel like i have to relearn them all over again I got so used to the older icons.

[zapta]

the new icons threw me for a loop. I feel like i have to relearn them all over again I got so used to the older icons.

Haven't seen the new ones yet but the old ones look dated that were created by a software engineer. I would love to see more modern and aesthetic icons. This is subjective of course.

[BloodyCactus]

attached screenies from 7.1

download for full size resolution

[zapta]

Are these the new icons? Don't look much better than the old ones. I was hopping to something like...

[Kjelt]

You can adjust the icons to look like the old style if you want, see the cadsoft youtube videos about Eagle v7.

[BloodyCactus]

You can adjust the icons to look like the old style if you want, see the cadsoft youtube videos about Eagle v7.

sweet! turned on the option.

[Wilksey]

I still type in the command! I can do things so much quicker.

[f1rmb]

I still type in the command! I can do things so much quicker.

Ditto, old habit from DOS time ;-)

Cheers.

[pstemari]

Or hit the F-keys.  Wish I could find a decent keyboard with the F-keys on the left.  Makes it easy to put one hand on the keys, one on the mouse, and stop hopping back & forth between the buttons and the drawing.

[Kjelt]

Or hit the F-keys.  Wish I could find a decent keyboard with the F-keys on the left.  Makes it easy to put one hand on the keys, one on the mouse, and stop hopping back & forth between the buttons and the drawing.

Perhaps the mechanical gamers keyboards like the logitech g710 , they have makro keys and good software you can use. Besides a nice touch like the good ,ol days.

[Wilksey]

You could always design an "Eagle" keyboard?

[pstemari]

G710 still has the F-keys on the top.

I finally sprung for the full version of Eagle, may wind up designing my own keyboard w Cherry blues.  I have Filcaos for hone and office, but those are still F-keys on the top.

I do have an old Omnikey with the mechanical ALPS switches and F-keys in both locations, but a few keys became a bit sticky over the years and I was never able to get them to work quite right.