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Eagle will be part of Fusion360

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rx8pilot:

--- Quote from: beanflying on June 13, 2021, 05:09:27 am ---
And again with the non factual unfounded speculative :bullshit: :palm:

--- End quote ---

Guessing what the future holds is by definition - speculative. We all have to make guesses on things that may go sideways. It is quite normal to base those guesses on feelings, not facts. In the case of Audodesk and Eagle - there are little to no facts. Guessing is our only option.

I have personally spoken to numerous people at various levels in Autodesk. When specifically asked about the future of Eagle, the answer is typically silence or a diversion.
In the absence of facts, speculation is the only alternative.

I use Fusion360 daily and generally like it. I do not, however, have any trust in the company at all.

james_s:

--- Quote from: rx8pilot on June 14, 2021, 07:45:48 pm ---I have personally spoken to numerous people at various levels in Autodesk. When specifically asked about the future of Eagle, the answer is typically silence or a diversion.
In the absence of facts, speculation is the only alternative.

--- End quote ---

My experience, having spent the bulk of my career in corporate environments is that response invariably means that the company does not see a long term future in the subject being asked about. If they won't tell you something about their plans with it then the plan is to phase it out in one way or another. When they do see a future, they are excited to paint you a glowing picture of all the improvements the vision they have.

ve7xen:

--- Quote from: macegr on June 12, 2021, 07:37:48 pm ---You might say that the subscription model is essentially the same as what I described above: your permanent license will eventually be for a piece of software that doesn't work anymore, and you have to keep paying in order to keep using your tools. This is 100% true, and subscription means you pay a little at a time instead of a lump sum. The main difference that makes people recoil from the subscription model is this: when Autodesk stopped supporting Eagle standalone/permanent, people had multiple years to find an alternative and learn to use it, while continuing to use their old product. When Autodesk decides that Eagle in Fusion isn't working and decides to stop supporting it, you may have a month or less to figure out something else. That's the entire base of the complaining.

--- End quote ---

The difference for me is that when software becomes deprecated, I am still in control of when it will 'inevitably' stop working. I can decide to maintain the machine it currently runs on indefinitely, come up with a virtualized solution to continue operating it, and so on. It should be safe to assume that it will be at least possible to access the software, and therefore my data, for a decade or more, provided I archive the software itself and possibly the means of running it (unsupported OS image etc.). That is very different than the situation here, where a company can unilaterally prevent me from continuing to use the software no matter what I (legally) do for literally any reason they choose.

When access to my data, and for some, the product of their life's work, is subject to the whims of a megacorp, I get a little uncomfortable. There are several reasons for this.

When Autodesk in the future decides to stop supporting this product, do they decide to grant a perpetual no-server-check-required license to their users? If not, you will simply be locked out of your data with no recourse; this has happened with DRMed games many times when the company goes out of business or for whatever other reason turns off the license server. You have no control and no knowledge of when this might happen or how long they might deign to give you to get out.

If you switch to a different tool in the future or for any other reason (retirement? career change?) the subscription no longer makes financial sense to maintain. Do you keep paying Autodesk while you are not using their tool just so you can continue to access your data occasionally and non-professionally? Do you spend the effort to extract your data from their clutches and convert it to a more portable format? Do you accept that it's gone to you? None are appealing.

If (more likely when) Autodesk jacks up the subscription price to a point that it doesn't make financial sense, but your data is locked in to their platform, what do you do? You are completely held hostage.

It is not a comfortable position to be in. I'm really not sure why companies are willing to take such risks, but then I am just a hobbyist.

rx8pilot:

--- Quote from: ve7xen on June 14, 2021, 10:05:52 pm ---The difference for me is that when software becomes deprecated, I am still in control of when it will 'inevitably' stop working. I can decide to maintain the machine it currently runs on indefinitely, come up with a virtualized solution to continue operating it, and so on.

--- End quote ---

I stuck with that mantra for a long time. As the industry makes a slow migration to subscription only options - I decided to look at the financials of it all.

In my case, I need: 3D CAD, ECAD, mech simulation, rendering, animation, CAM 5 axis.
I was using SolidWorks since 1998, MasterCam, and Keyshot. Total initial cost is around $25k and then about $3300/year for maintenance. I used to skip maintenance for a few years, but the companies started imposed heavy penalties.

When I needed ECAD - I was thinking I would just go with Altium Designer - but that was another $11k plus $1500/year for maintenance. At this point - I would be up to $36k and $4800 per year just for me. I ended up going with the low-end Eagle option to save money. Now that Autodesk is integrating Eagle, I have a single piece of software that is only $500/year (for now) and essentially a single learning curve. There is no translation, intermediate files, incompatibilities or a ridiculous work-flow that results in having 5 software vendors.

Do I like the subscription concept and all my data in the cloud? Nope, not even a little.
Do I like saving $36,000 and recurring annual $4800 expenses? Yes.

beanflying:

--- Quote from: rx8pilot on June 14, 2021, 07:45:48 pm ---
--- Quote from: beanflying on June 13, 2021, 05:09:27 am ---
And again with the non factual unfounded speculative :bullshit: :palm:

--- End quote ---

Guessing what the future holds is by definition - speculative. We all have to make guesses on things that may go sideways. It is quite normal to base those guesses on feelings, not facts. In the case of Audodesk and Eagle - there are little to no facts. Guessing is our only option.

I have personally spoken to numerous people at various levels in Autodesk. When specifically asked about the future of Eagle, the answer is typically silence or a diversion.
In the absence of facts, speculation is the only alternative.

I use Fusion360 daily and generally like it. I do not, however, have any trust in the company at all.

--- End quote ---

It depends on how you look at Autodesk as the Devil Incarnate or a company that has more or less maintained a standard format in DXF for decades with minimal changes to it. I suspect that if I could get hold of the DXF's I created as a Student on Autocad 2.x they could be read by a bunch of current software be it Autodesk or others. Swapping or locking out reverse compatibility to old files would be corporate death.

While PCB designs are way more complex than a 2D drawing providing Fusion/Eagle maintains the option to export in old versions of Eagle then the fear and smear is just that. Not that anyone should 'assume' safety and always having an exit strategy is prudent and in a business setting essential.

The video I linked back a bit https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eagle/eagle-will-be-part-of-fusion360/msg3561812/#msg3561812 shows fairly clearly that standalone Eagle is not going to get any further development other then maybe security patches going forward. For any Hobby level users with only a few 'essential' projects it makes sense to either give Fusions 'free' Hobby license a go or if you want give KiCad a go (or another as it is much improved) and import your Eagle content. But getting out of Eagle to be sensible going forward for any new projects or designs.

As per your last post yep Fusion represents great value over other Seat pricing and linking the Electronic to Mechanical is an extra win.

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