Author Topic: Eagle will be part of Fusion360  (Read 25947 times)

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Offline DiTBho

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #125 on: June 09, 2021, 11:25:51 am »
is there a way to get a license for Eagle CAD / Linux?
I have emailed Autodesk multiple times, but they don't respond.

So what am I supposed to do? Even if I move to Fusion, it doesn't run on Linux  :-//
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #126 on: June 09, 2021, 11:32:28 am »
:palm: No one 'killed' anything they have just stopped developing Eagle as a platform. Its far from the first bit of software to go this way.
This is exactly the definition of being killed. You can no longer use the software independently of its provider and physically own your work and modify it in a meaningful way with alternative tools (cause they don't exist). Now you have to pay a ransom (subscription fee) recurrently to even access the tools and your work in full capacity.

The only viable alternative is not getting involved with Fusion360 and other products like that in the first place.
And this is a terrible choice for some folks, because from technical point of view Fusion360 is very appealing.
However, the forced online nature of this product combined with monetary burden and bundled DRM makes it plain F dangerous product to use.
And above that it doesn't run on Linux.

Hardly killed anyone you had or has a perpetual license has had their software killed HOW  :palm: Anyone you was on a subscription can go to Fusion for less $/year than they were paying for Eagle standalone. If we assume 'killed' is valid then would I be right to carry on like a frog in a sock about Autocad 2.x (the first CAD software I used) no longer being supported?

Your 'opinion' on license/cloud has ZERO to do with anything being 'killed'!

As to Linux incompatibility build a bridge most of the world just doesn't care :-DD
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 11:39:51 am by beanflying »
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Online beanflying

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #127 on: June 09, 2021, 11:34:17 am »
is there a way to get a license for Eagle CAD / Linux?
I have emailed Autodesk multiple times, but they don't respond.

So what am I supposed to do? Even if I move to Fusion, it doesn't run on Linux  :-//

Regardless of my last post there is a workaround for Linux for Fusion so do some searching.

Why you would want to try and get a license for software that clearly has no forward upgrade path seems like a bad idea.
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Offline Unixon

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #128 on: June 09, 2021, 12:10:21 pm »
So what am I supposed to do?
Convert your ongoing projects and move to KiCad.
 
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Offline Karel

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #129 on: June 09, 2021, 12:50:35 pm »
So what am I supposed to do?
Convert your ongoing projects and move to KiCad.

Yep! In KiCad:

File -> Import Project -> EAGLE CAD

There are also some standalone tools/converters, for example, this one can convert your Eagle libraries to KiCad libraries:

https://www.teuniz.net/eagle2kicad/

 
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Offline ebastler

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #130 on: June 09, 2021, 12:53:45 pm »
Regardless of my last post there is a workaround for Linux for Fusion so do some searching.

Are you actively trying to piss people off, or just rambling about stuff you don't know about?
Why not give DiTBho some actual information?  ???
 
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Online beanflying

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #131 on: June 09, 2021, 12:58:10 pm »
Regardless of my last post there is a workaround for Linux for Fusion so do some searching.

Are you actively trying to piss people off, or just rambling about stuff you don't know about?
Why not give DiTBho some actual information?  ???

I don't use Linux and last time I came across it was maybe a year ago. Why should it be my job to do a Google search for others? I have no idea if it works with the current version and again not my job and no idea what Linux build the poster is running.

And for those with Google or site search issues I linked it here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/msg2982186/#msg2982186
https://all3dp.com/2/fusion-360-for-linux-how-to-install-it/
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 01:14:52 pm by beanflying »
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Offline james_s

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #132 on: June 11, 2021, 04:34:15 am »
I don't use Linux and last time I came across it was maybe a year ago. Why should it be my job to do a Google search for others? I have no idea if it works with the current version and again not my job and no idea what Linux build the poster is running.

If you don't have an answer for him then why do you feel compelled to respond? It reminds me of those people who post answers to questions on Amazon reviews that say "I don't know."  :palm:
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #133 on: June 11, 2021, 05:18:37 am »
I don't use Linux and last time I came across it was maybe a year ago. Why should it be my job to do a Google search for others? I have no idea if it works with the current version and again not my job and no idea what Linux build the poster is running.

If you don't have an answer for him then why do you feel compelled to respond? It reminds me of those people who post answers to questions on Amazon reviews that say "I don't know."  :palm:

If you had nothing to add then  :wtf: get involved! If people can't do some proactive minimal googling then that is their problem. Since eblaster and yourself decided to weigh in and provide ZERO additional help other than critique my reply how has your addition helped anyone other than your own self righteous egos?

There is several solutions and workarounds for Linux including some topics here as well. Since then I trawled up a link I had read some time ago and passed on with a caveat of not sure if it works now and which of the numerous Linux versions.

The simple answer is Linux is not supported by Fusion 360 the facts are somewhat different but it is a cludge and subject to breaking in the future. My view is if you NEED to use Software package X and it only works on 'CURRENT' Brand A and M operating system it is a simple solution.
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Offline macegr

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #134 on: June 12, 2021, 07:37:48 pm »
If we assume 'killed' is valid then would I be right to carry on like a frog in a sock about Autocad 2.x (the first CAD software I used) no longer being supported?

Autodesk continued to release new versions of AutoCAD, in order to maintain compatibility with continually changing computer technology and operating systems (while adding features). They fixed bugs, and when enough work and features were done, they'd release a new version that people could buy if they wanted to continue using AutoCAD. This is support.

When you stop supporting and selling a product, that means you no longer fix bugs, you no longer resolve incompatibilities with new operating system releases, and you don't offer new features. It will stop working, the only question is how long until then. This is what people mean when Autodesk "kills" a product, which they have done countless times. Eagle standalone or just Eagle on Linux, is being killed. Not an exaggeration. Some form of Eagle will live on in Fusion, but eventually people's standalone installs of Eagle will not work anymore, and Autodesk is not offering any replacement for that type of product.

You might say that the subscription model is essentially the same as what I described above: your permanent license will eventually be for a piece of software that doesn't work anymore, and you have to keep paying in order to keep using your tools. This is 100% true, and subscription means you pay a little at a time instead of a lump sum. The main difference that makes people recoil from the subscription model is this: when Autodesk stopped supporting Eagle standalone/permanent, people had multiple years to find an alternative and learn to use it, while continuing to use their old product. When Autodesk decides that Eagle in Fusion isn't working and decides to stop supporting it, you may have a month or less to figure out something else. That's the entire base of the complaining.
 
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Online beanflying

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #135 on: June 13, 2021, 02:49:10 am »
Quote
When you stop supporting and selling a product, that means you no longer fix bugs, you no longer resolve incompatibilities with new operating system releases, and you don't offer new features. It will stop working, the only question is how long until then. This is what people mean when Autodesk "kills" a product, which they have done countless times. Eagle standalone or just Eagle on Linux, is being killed. Not an exaggeration. Some form of Eagle will live on in Fusion, but eventually people's standalone installs of Eagle will not work anymore, and Autodesk is not offering any replacement for that type of product.

So Farnells prior to Autodesk 'killed' Eagle how many times by version changes and 'making' people buy new versions to keep current? Find me any commercial level software that offers 'free' perpetual upgrades and support for ever?

Autodesk for all their flaws has maintained CAD systems for decades and given a path forward with user files/drawings and data. The word 'killed' implies an end of use/life this is factually incorrect until people run out of Hardware/Operating system compatibility their perpetual licenses will continue to work.

Even now there is multiple paths forward for Eagle users including Fusion or Kicad (tried the latest version and not all bad by any means) with Eagle data. Again far from 'killed'.

Quote
When Autodesk decides that Eagle in Fusion isn't working and decides to stop supporting it, you may have a month or less to figure out something else.

Completely unfounded non factual fear and smear :bullshit:

Compared to the seat price of a few decades (well over 10X in actual $) ago Fusion is a complete bargain. Sometime later this year when my three years of FREE Startup license is up I will at this stage stump up the $ and buy a paid seat. Partly because of the mix of Mechanical and Electronics I do and nothing else I can see is as affordable or integrated.

Does it mean I will stay with Fusion forever paying annually  :-// Might be in 3-5 years I decide to extract all my data and import it into something else but my crystal ball is really foggy.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 02:56:59 am by beanflying »
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Offline Unixon

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #136 on: June 13, 2021, 04:57:23 am »
Might be in 3-5 years I decide to extract all my data and import it into something else but my crystal ball is really foggy.
In 3-5 years I doubt they leave you any possibility at all to extract any of your data, and even if you do the data is going to be a useless mess of undocumented proprietary binaries.
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #137 on: June 13, 2021, 05:09:27 am »
Might be in 3-5 years I decide to extract all my data and import it into something else but my crystal ball is really foggy.
In 3-5 years I doubt they leave you any possibility at all to extract any of your data, and even if you do the data is going to be a useless mess of undocumented proprietary binaries.

And again with the non factual unfounded speculative :bullshit: :palm:

Below a partial list of NON Autodesk proprietary options Fusion currently has available. I see very little that locks me into staying here.

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Offline Unixon

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #138 on: June 13, 2021, 07:44:53 am »
And again with the non factual unfounded speculative :bullshit: :palm:
OK, let's check if this is currently true just for Eagle. Please find attached Eagle's DTD for v9.6.2 and onward.
Every "urn" attribute in project file compliant to this DTD points to an online resource, so please do two+ things with respect to each type of resource:
1) explain how to get content that URN is pointing to as a local file.
2) provide file format specification for that type of resource.
Optionally, list known software other than Autodesk products that allows meaningful editing of that type of resource.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 07:49:41 am by Unixon »
 
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Online beanflying

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #139 on: June 13, 2021, 08:32:29 am »
As I don't have a paid or for that matter a copy of Eagle installed currently so not likely.

However I just exported a Board and Schematic file from Fusion in Eagle 9.x mode and KiCad opened them both straight up without a fuss. Not that there might be issues I didn't spot but export and loading into KiCad seemed straightforward and not blocked.
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Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #140 on: June 14, 2021, 07:45:48 pm »

And again with the non factual unfounded speculative :bullshit: :palm:

Guessing what the future holds is by definition - speculative. We all have to make guesses on things that may go sideways. It is quite normal to base those guesses on feelings, not facts. In the case of Audodesk and Eagle - there are little to no facts. Guessing is our only option.

I have personally spoken to numerous people at various levels in Autodesk. When specifically asked about the future of Eagle, the answer is typically silence or a diversion.
In the absence of facts, speculation is the only alternative.

I use Fusion360 daily and generally like it. I do not, however, have any trust in the company at all.
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Offline james_s

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #141 on: June 14, 2021, 09:33:31 pm »
I have personally spoken to numerous people at various levels in Autodesk. When specifically asked about the future of Eagle, the answer is typically silence or a diversion.
In the absence of facts, speculation is the only alternative.

My experience, having spent the bulk of my career in corporate environments is that response invariably means that the company does not see a long term future in the subject being asked about. If they won't tell you something about their plans with it then the plan is to phase it out in one way or another. When they do see a future, they are excited to paint you a glowing picture of all the improvements the vision they have.
 

Offline ve7xen

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #142 on: June 14, 2021, 10:05:52 pm »
You might say that the subscription model is essentially the same as what I described above: your permanent license will eventually be for a piece of software that doesn't work anymore, and you have to keep paying in order to keep using your tools. This is 100% true, and subscription means you pay a little at a time instead of a lump sum. The main difference that makes people recoil from the subscription model is this: when Autodesk stopped supporting Eagle standalone/permanent, people had multiple years to find an alternative and learn to use it, while continuing to use their old product. When Autodesk decides that Eagle in Fusion isn't working and decides to stop supporting it, you may have a month or less to figure out something else. That's the entire base of the complaining.

The difference for me is that when software becomes deprecated, I am still in control of when it will 'inevitably' stop working. I can decide to maintain the machine it currently runs on indefinitely, come up with a virtualized solution to continue operating it, and so on. It should be safe to assume that it will be at least possible to access the software, and therefore my data, for a decade or more, provided I archive the software itself and possibly the means of running it (unsupported OS image etc.). That is very different than the situation here, where a company can unilaterally prevent me from continuing to use the software no matter what I (legally) do for literally any reason they choose.

When access to my data, and for some, the product of their life's work, is subject to the whims of a megacorp, I get a little uncomfortable. There are several reasons for this.

When Autodesk in the future decides to stop supporting this product, do they decide to grant a perpetual no-server-check-required license to their users? If not, you will simply be locked out of your data with no recourse; this has happened with DRMed games many times when the company goes out of business or for whatever other reason turns off the license server. You have no control and no knowledge of when this might happen or how long they might deign to give you to get out.

If you switch to a different tool in the future or for any other reason (retirement? career change?) the subscription no longer makes financial sense to maintain. Do you keep paying Autodesk while you are not using their tool just so you can continue to access your data occasionally and non-professionally? Do you spend the effort to extract your data from their clutches and convert it to a more portable format? Do you accept that it's gone to you? None are appealing.

If (more likely when) Autodesk jacks up the subscription price to a point that it doesn't make financial sense, but your data is locked in to their platform, what do you do? You are completely held hostage.

It is not a comfortable position to be in. I'm really not sure why companies are willing to take such risks, but then I am just a hobbyist.
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Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #143 on: June 15, 2021, 02:22:59 am »
The difference for me is that when software becomes deprecated, I am still in control of when it will 'inevitably' stop working. I can decide to maintain the machine it currently runs on indefinitely, come up with a virtualized solution to continue operating it, and so on.

I stuck with that mantra for a long time. As the industry makes a slow migration to subscription only options - I decided to look at the financials of it all.

In my case, I need: 3D CAD, ECAD, mech simulation, rendering, animation, CAM 5 axis.
I was using SolidWorks since 1998, MasterCam, and Keyshot. Total initial cost is around $25k and then about $3300/year for maintenance. I used to skip maintenance for a few years, but the companies started imposed heavy penalties.

When I needed ECAD - I was thinking I would just go with Altium Designer - but that was another $11k plus $1500/year for maintenance. At this point - I would be up to $36k and $4800 per year just for me. I ended up going with the low-end Eagle option to save money. Now that Autodesk is integrating Eagle, I have a single piece of software that is only $500/year (for now) and essentially a single learning curve. There is no translation, intermediate files, incompatibilities or a ridiculous work-flow that results in having 5 software vendors.

Do I like the subscription concept and all my data in the cloud? Nope, not even a little.
Do I like saving $36,000 and recurring annual $4800 expenses? Yes.

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Online beanflying

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Re: Eagle will be part of Fusion360
« Reply #144 on: June 15, 2021, 02:44:57 am »

And again with the non factual unfounded speculative :bullshit: :palm:

Guessing what the future holds is by definition - speculative. We all have to make guesses on things that may go sideways. It is quite normal to base those guesses on feelings, not facts. In the case of Audodesk and Eagle - there are little to no facts. Guessing is our only option.

I have personally spoken to numerous people at various levels in Autodesk. When specifically asked about the future of Eagle, the answer is typically silence or a diversion.
In the absence of facts, speculation is the only alternative.

I use Fusion360 daily and generally like it. I do not, however, have any trust in the company at all.

It depends on how you look at Autodesk as the Devil Incarnate or a company that has more or less maintained a standard format in DXF for decades with minimal changes to it. I suspect that if I could get hold of the DXF's I created as a Student on Autocad 2.x they could be read by a bunch of current software be it Autodesk or others. Swapping or locking out reverse compatibility to old files would be corporate death.

While PCB designs are way more complex than a 2D drawing providing Fusion/Eagle maintains the option to export in old versions of Eagle then the fear and smear is just that. Not that anyone should 'assume' safety and always having an exit strategy is prudent and in a business setting essential.

The video I linked back a bit https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eagle/eagle-will-be-part-of-fusion360/msg3561812/#msg3561812 shows fairly clearly that standalone Eagle is not going to get any further development other then maybe security patches going forward. For any Hobby level users with only a few 'essential' projects it makes sense to either give Fusions 'free' Hobby license a go or if you want give KiCad a go (or another as it is much improved) and import your Eagle content. But getting out of Eagle to be sensible going forward for any new projects or designs.

As per your last post yep Fusion represents great value over other Seat pricing and linking the Electronic to Mechanical is an extra win.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2021, 02:47:38 am by beanflying »
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