Author Topic: I just can't figure out how to use this  (Read 7808 times)

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Offline ramicio

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I just can't figure out how to use this
« on: April 02, 2013, 01:49:56 pm »
Why can't I connect parts that I insert from the library to stuff like vias?  Let's say I have an SMD resistor.  I can't connect a pad of it to anything but other library-based components.  I am trying to tie it to the GND signal.  If I make traces in the shape of a "+" I still can't connect it to the ground plane, because there is of course clearance around the trace.
 

Offline Jon Chandler

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 05:16:08 pm »
If you're trying to connect a trace to a ground fill layer, you need to use the NAME tool to give the same name to each.  If the ground plane is the bottom layer, route the trace to a spot where you want the via to the ground plane, then change the layer and route a short trace on the bottom layer.  The NAME the trace the same as the ground plane.

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Offline ramicio

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2013, 10:12:15 pm »
I figured it out now.  Thank you.
 

Offline ramicio

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2013, 04:45:48 pm »
I haven't figured it out.  If I just make a polygon, name it GND, and place one component in it, there is no way to connect one pin to that GND plane.  If I make a via, name it GND, there is still no way to make a connection from that pin to that via.  I can make another via, name it GND, and a yellow connection will pop up.  I still can't connect to those vias.  I've made boards with vias to components, but I can't remember how it happened.  I think it's only been components which have points that align with grids and a trace is able to snap right to it.

I just don't get it.  Why is this program so retarded?
 

Offline baljemmett

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2013, 05:02:14 pm »
I just don't get it.  Why is this program so retarded?

Do you actually have a schematic loaded, or are you just placing parts on the PCB by hand?

It'll only let you connect pins/vias/etc. that are part of the same net, so connect the relevant component pin to the GND net in the schematic and the problem should go away.  I don't recall if it's possible to do that from the PCB editor.
 

Offline ramicio

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2013, 05:31:18 pm »
I don't do things with a schematic.  Making schematics in Eagle is harder to do than making boards.  There just aren't any components in the library that match what I'm building, so when I make a board I don't even make components, I just place the pads/vias and holes where they need to be.  I have plans in my head and I make boards from that.  If I was to draw a schematic I would find it easiest to use graph paper and a pencil.

I found if I place say an SMD resistor, place another down, connect a pin from each together, and name the connection GND, I can just delete the one I don't need and it will keep that pin on the one I want to keep as connected to GND.  Still a pain that you can't just click on a pin and tell it to connect to GND by typing it in the command bar.
 

Offline andersendr

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2013, 09:41:55 pm »
You should be able to name the pin to GND and you should be able to connect it to anything else named GND.  I will double check this once I get to the drafting computer.  Just so i am doing it like you, are you placing individual pads and want to connect them to a via?
 

Offline andersendr

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2013, 12:36:54 am »
Yea I just tired it.  Use the NAME command to name the VIA's, PAD's, and polygons the same name and then connect them.
 

Offline jmole

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2013, 01:18:35 am »
I don't do things with a schematic.  Making schematics in Eagle is harder to do than making boards.

 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD

Really?!?!?!?!
 

Offline ramicio

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2013, 03:17:29 am »
Yes.  It doesn't have the components I need, and I don't feel like making them.  Making a component on a PCB is easy.  Just lay down some vias.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2013, 03:25:54 am »
I don't do things with a schematic.  Making schematics in Eagle is harder to do than making boards. 

Well there's your problem! All these programs are designed around a workflow involving both schematic and PCB.

Though I agree that the Eagle library is retarded. Actually, Eagle is retarded.
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Offline marshallh

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2013, 03:33:55 am »
Actually, Eagle is retarded.

Quoted for posterity

I have a pretty complex design that i left for 2 months in Eagle. After going back from Altium I cannot just simply believe how I even managed. I'm blowing it all away and redoing it in altium. About the only thing Eagle has going for it is that its not quite as bad as kicad.
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Offline ramicio

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2013, 12:30:32 pm »
Well, it is free, so I don't know what people expect.  Do the paid versions come with more libraries?  I can't even imagine how much that Altium thing costs.  You have to contact them to buy it, so that's never a good sign.  I'm doing this as a hobbyist, so I can't justify spending a single cent on any software.
 

Offline Memphis

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2013, 02:20:29 pm »
Uff, dont be lazy and download the library files for eagle from this website  :palm:

The complex library can be downloaded by ftp access too!
ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/userfiles/libraries/

And if you still cant find the component, you have to desing it on yourself with library editor. Nothing hard  ;)
...sorry for my english :palm:
 

Offline ramicio

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2013, 12:54:30 pm »
I don't use the libraries because I don't like the parts.  I just don't get why you can't specify something a pad or a via and why you can't connect a signal to a via.
 

Offline senso

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2013, 06:15:43 pm »
And why don't you like the parts and insist in making pcb's without schematics?
You can connect a via to a pad, signal, through hole, just rename the via to the correct net name, easy as pie.
 

Offline ramicio

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2013, 06:48:34 pm »
Because basically no parts exist, I don't like their style on the PCB, and because I do not feel like making components for schematics.  I don't understand any part of the second sentence.  If I laid down a component like a DIP IC and wanted to connect one of the pins to only a via to make some breakout board, I don't see how I could do it with a signal.
 

Offline Jon Chandler

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2013, 03:11:17 pm »
Here's the simple answer, which you probably won't like....

You've mentioned a breakout board, so lets start there.  You don't need to start from a schematic to create a board.

1. Select an appropriate DIP package and place it on the board.  The package is separate from the device, so Eagle doesn't care that it's for your one of a kind special chip...only that it's a page with 16 pins (as an example).

2. Select an appropriate header connector package.  Maybe you'd like two 8-pin headers to separate functions.  Place these on the board where you'd like them.

3. Connect pins from the DIP package to appropriate header pins using airwires.  This results in fine yellow lines between pads that connect together.  This only works to connect pads of existing components.

4.  Select the routing tool and select the trace layer (i.e., top or bottom) and trace width.  Click on one of the connected pads and its airwire will be highlighted.  Run the trace to the connected pad.  When the two pads are successfully connected, you'll hear a ding from the computer.

So in short, you first connect the pads with airwires, and then route a trace between them.  Do not use the wire tool — it doesn't do what you expect.
 

Offline ramicio

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2013, 03:13:39 pm »
I know how to do it, but I simply don't care for any of the built-in packages.  I don't get why a person can't just lay down a freakin' via and connect to it with the airwires.  It's the most retarded behavior, ever.
 

Offline dr_p

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2013, 06:00:25 pm »
I also do small boards without the schematic. I found Express PCB to be perfect for this.

http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Download.htm
 

Offline ramicio

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2013, 06:01:56 pm »
Their software is easy to use, but the file format is closed source and you have to order through them.
 

Offline dr_p

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2013, 06:13:20 pm »
Of course, you're right. I print my own boards so I wasn't bothered by the compatibility issues.
 

Offline kizzap

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2013, 11:38:06 pm »
 :wtf:

Vias aren't where you are supposed to be soldering in headers.

I swear the only time I hear people bitching about Eagle is from people who haven't taken the time to get off their arse and learn how to use the damn thing.

Don't Complain If You Are Not Going To Learn How To Use The Package Properly.
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2013, 11:58:13 pm »
I know how to do it, but I simply don't care for any of the built-in packages.  I don't get why a person can't just lay down a freakin' via and connect to it with the airwires.  It's the most retarded behavior, ever.

If you hate the software so much, why are you using it?  It's designed to work in a way that is different than you want it to work.  The software is not crap, the way you want to use it is crap.  You don't get in a car and complain that you can't drive from the back seat, do you?  So why use Eagle and complain it doesn't work in a way that is different from how it was made to work? 

If all you want to do is put holes and wires where you want them without using built-in packages and without using schematics, just use AutoCAD.  There are tons of free versions out there.

I don't think Altium or any PCB layout software will let you just place parts on a board and route it however you like.  That is a job for people who really don't know anything about PCB design - and Eagle nor other software is made for those people.



You are correct that Eagle is mostly crap, but not for the reasons you state.
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline Jon Chandler

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2013, 08:33:47 pm »
I just verified this, which I had alluded to earlier....

Put down whatever pads you like.  Select NAME from the EDIT menu.  Name the first pad, say S1.  Still using the NAME tool, click on the pad you want to connect and give it the same name.  A text box will pop up, showing the name you just gave, the current name of the second pad and asking which to use.

Click on the first, and the two pads will be connected by an airwire.  Select the route tool and run a trace between the two pads.  Repeat.
 

Offline ramicio

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2013, 04:03:54 pm »
There is no such thing as a pad in Eagle unless it's in a component.  My point is that I can't just lay down a via, and connect an airwire to it from a component that has a pad. 
 

Offline Jon Chandler

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2013, 04:36:36 pm »
Yes and no.  You are right that you can't connect a via to a component pad, at least not directly.  The component pad must have a signal connected to it to have a name property.

So here is a way to accomplish what you're trying to do:

1.  Start with a library component.  Place it where you like and place a second copy.  This is the 8 pin DIP in the attached illustrations.

2.  Connect a component pad you want to connect to a via to another pad on the dummy part with an air wire.

3.  Use the NAME tool to determine this signal name.

4.  Use the NAME tool to give the desired via the same name.  A yellow airwire will connect it to the pair of connected pads.

5.  Route the trace as desired.

6.  Delete the dummy part.

It's a little extra work but it does what you want.

Another option is to create a library of single pads of various sizes.  Then you can position them as you like and route traces directly to them.
 

Offline ramicio

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2013, 04:38:37 pm »
I know how to do all this now.  My whole point is that they (the people who make the software) need to change this behavior because it's just plain stupid.
 

Offline jmole

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2013, 04:54:19 pm »
I know how to do all this now.  My whole point is that they (the people who make the software) need to change this behavior because it's just plain stupid.

This seems as silly as complaining that the nail-puller end of a hammer can't easily be used as a flathead screwdriver. If you don't use the tool as it's intended, everything will seem stupid.
 

Offline ramicio

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2013, 04:57:15 pm »
A hammer is not a piece of software.  Comparing physical tools to software tools is apples and oranges.
 

Offline TerminalJack505

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2013, 06:06:51 pm »
I know how to do all this now.  My whole point is that they (the people who make the software) need to change this behavior because it's just plain stupid.

I make a lot of little breakout-type of boards that don't need a schematic, library or net names and would benefit from having this capability.  Sometimes it would be nice to just build boards ad hoc.  I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to add this feature, however.

I'm willing to bet that the software designer's mindset is that it is easy enough to get these types of jobs done with the help of the library editor.  And I think they're right--it is easy enough for people that know how to use the software and know the software's 'philosophy.' 

If this is all you want to do with the software then you're not going to like what you have to do to get the job done since this isn't a primary feature of the software.
 

Offline Jon Chandler

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Re: I just can't figure out how to use this
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2013, 06:42:26 pm »
At the risk of being told you know everything again, there is one other option.

Put down any of the components you do happen to like and whatever vias you want, and then connect them using the Eagle LINE tool with the appropriate layer selected.  Be sure the lines overlap the pads as the burden is totally on you to be sure things actually connect.

You can then generate Gerber files (you probably won't like having to do this either) and the resulting files should produce what you want.
 


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