Author Topic: The Autodesk Eagle edition  (Read 141892 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline XFDDesign

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 435
  • Country: us
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #450 on: February 23, 2017, 02:19:17 pm »
:words:

If you want to try having any sort of discussion, you might want to pick up from the challenges provided against you back on around page 4, especially since your own 'logical' arguments were dismantled back there. I'll even provide you a link: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eagle/the-autodesk-eagle-edition/msg1117579/#msg1117579
 

Offline LabSpokane

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1899
  • Country: us
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #451 on: February 23, 2017, 09:26:32 pm »
For those wishing to switch to CS, maintenance is $150/year. First year of updates included with license.

For those who haven't tried to renew an expired update subscription before, one is typically required to pay all unpaid years in order get new updates. Companies with multiple seats can sometimes negotiate this, but individuals have less/no leverage.
 

Online KE5FX

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1320
  • Country: us
    • KE5FX.COM
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #452 on: February 23, 2017, 10:15:19 pm »
For those wishing to switch to CS, maintenance is $150/year. First year of updates included with license.

For those who haven't tried to renew an expired update subscription before, one is typically required to pay all unpaid years in order get new updates. Companies with multiple seats can sometimes negotiate this, but individuals have less/no leverage.

As long as the older software can still be installed and used, that's all the "leverage" I'd ask for, personally.

Charging for unpaid years might cause some grumbling, but as long as the older version can still be used, it's ultimately no different from a traditional upgrade discount that diminishes over time. 
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 32371
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #453 on: February 23, 2017, 10:27:13 pm »
No CS is a cut down version of the real Altium designer - that actually works offline. There are some really stupid issues - like it cant open Altium Designer PCB files (but schematics works ok) - some features have been crippled without considering after-effects... But apart from features downhill creep it is the same as Altium Designer which CircuitMaker is absolutely not.

Those "cripled" features though are mostly productivity enhancement things. Actual capability to design high end boards is the same.
 

Offline Agent86

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 25
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #454 on: February 24, 2017, 03:08:47 am »
For those wishing to switch to CS, maintenance is $150/year. First year of updates included with license.
Genius that I am, I figured out that, with the promo deal, it's about the same price for the first year of either CS or EAGLE, but then after that, with CS, I can pay maintenance *and* donate enough to CERN for 1/2 day of KiCad development and it will still be cheaper than EAGLE...   :box:
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 32371
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #455 on: February 24, 2017, 04:54:36 am »
I notice the Circuit Studio price has been lowered on Element 14. No need to have an eagle licence?
 

Offline LabSpokane

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1899
  • Country: us
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #456 on: February 24, 2017, 05:53:54 am »
For those wishing to switch to CS, maintenance is $150/year. First year of updates included with license.
Genius that I am, I figured out that, with the promo deal, it's about the same price for the first year of either CS or EAGLE, but then after that, with CS, I can pay maintenance *and* donate enough to CERN for 1/2 day of KiCad development and it will still be cheaper than EAGLE...   :box:

I was not trying to put down CS in any way there. People have budgets, and it's only fair for folks to know the facts to budget adequately. 

And donating to public projects like KiCad is a fantastic thing.  Good on you. :-+
 

Offline 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3236
  • Country: hr
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #457 on: February 24, 2017, 07:22:19 am »
I notice the Circuit Studio price has been lowered on Element 14. No need to have an eagle licence?

I'm looking at it right now.. It doesn't say anything about any prerequisites.. 395 GBP for full license, 115 GBP for one year of renewal of support...

That is very good price.. Downloaded trial... If I like it, it's no brainer at that price...
 

Offline FrankT

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 159
  • Country: au
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #458 on: February 24, 2017, 07:51:13 am »
I notice the Circuit Studio price has been lowered on Element 14. No need to have an eagle licence?

That figures.  A couple of week after I buy a license, they halve the price.
 

Offline macegr

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 94
  • Country: us
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #459 on: February 25, 2017, 11:27:19 pm »
I notice the Circuit Studio price has been lowered on Element 14. No need to have an eagle licence?

That figures.  A couple of week after I buy a license, they halve the price.

Worse things can happen! You might buy a permanent license for a piece of CAD software and then a few weeks later discover that you will receive no bugfixes or updates unless you "upgrade" to an internet-tied subscription model  :clap:
 

Offline macegr

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 94
  • Country: us
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #460 on: March 08, 2017, 09:21:21 pm »
Sam Sattel, who worked at Altium from 2000 until September of 2016, now works for Autodesk. Here's an article he wrote that compares Eagle's new licensing to the airline industry, and says that all other PCB CAD companies are now playing second fiddle to Eagle and will be stuck playing catch-up for many years to come: http://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/blog/the-eagle-effect-how-the-eda-industry-has-been-changed-forever/

It's a long article that will be a favorite of anyone who loves the word "disruptive."
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3894
  • Country: us
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #461 on: March 08, 2017, 09:50:36 pm »
Sam Sattel, who worked at Altium from 2000 until September of 2016, now works for Autodesk. Here's an article he wrote that compares Eagle's new licensing to the airline industry, and says that all other PCB CAD companies are now playing second fiddle to Eagle and will be stuck playing catch-up for many years to come: http://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/blog/the-eagle-effect-how-the-eda-industry-has-been-changed-forever/

It's a long article that will be a favorite of anyone who loves the word "disruptive."

Quite a bit of spin here.  What they are saying, pertinent to this thread, is that their price point for EDA software is free relative to the cost of an engineer.  Disruptive in the professional market.   They dismiss a thousand bucks as nothing.  Which is true when as a corporation you are probably paying $40k-$300k to put an engineer in a seat (depending on where in the world you are and including all overhead costs). 

Totally ignores other low cost EDA, and is selectively blind about cross platform KiCAD.  Ignores the fact that $1000/year is not effectively free to a great many potential users of EDA software.
 

Offline macegr

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 94
  • Country: us
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #462 on: March 08, 2017, 10:09:06 pm »
I think they're also talking about the free trial version of Eagle (it was always a trial, you could not use it for commercial purposes).

Pretty amusing to me how Sam talks about "we did this, we did that, our mission setting out" about Eagle's entire 30-year history, when he was working for Altium the whole time and didn't even join Eagle's team at Autodesk until September of last year. Makes me wonder how the original Eagle team feels about him speaking for them like that. Autodesk bought Eagle as it is today, they didn't buy the rights to the historical narrative.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13510
  • Country: us
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #463 on: March 08, 2017, 10:17:31 pm »
Quite a bit of spin here.  What they are saying, pertinent to this thread, is that their price point for EDA software is free relative to the cost of an engineer.  Disruptive in the professional market.   They dismiss a thousand bucks as nothing.  Which is true when as a corporation you are probably paying $40k-$300k to put an engineer in a seat (depending on where in the world you are and including all overhead costs). 

Totally ignores other low cost EDA, and is selectively blind about cross platform KiCAD.  Ignores the fact that $1000/year is not effectively free to a great many potential users of EDA software.

Ironically that emphasizes the fact that the value of the content you have paid an engineer to create with the tool dwarfs the cost of the tool, hence it makes sense to purchase a perpetual licensed tool even if the cost is substantially higher because that guarantees you perpetual access to your expensive content.

I'm also not sure where they're getting that other products are going to be playing catch up. Eagle always has been and likely always will be a second tier product. It is popular almost entirely due to its large hobbyist user base with some penetration into small companies. If they wanted a top end EDA they purchased the wrong name.
 

Offline Tandy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 372
  • Country: gb
  • Darren Grant from Tandy, UK.
    • Tandy
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #464 on: March 08, 2017, 11:19:29 pm »
Meanwhile in the delusional world of AutoDesk modern computers are still playing catchup with the Commodore 64.
For more info on Tandy try these links Tandy History EEVBlog Thread & Official Tandy Website
 

Offline gildasd

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 930
  • Country: be
  • Engineering watch officer - Apprentice Officer
    • Sci-fi Meanderings
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #465 on: March 08, 2017, 11:25:47 pm »
I HATE anything cloud/subscription based.
It is a definitive NO BUY for me. I don't care, I'll even learn a new program to avoid this.
Mostly because I want to be able to open that important file from 10 years ago even if the company went under 2 years ago and took the cloud servers down with it.
I'm electronically illiterate
 
The following users thanked this post: james_s

Offline MarkL

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1723
  • Country: us
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #466 on: March 09, 2017, 01:37:59 am »
Sam Sattel, who worked at Altium from 2000 until September of 2016, now works for Autodesk. Here's an article he wrote that compares Eagle's new licensing to the airline industry, and says that all other PCB CAD companies are now playing second fiddle to Eagle and will be stuck playing catch-up for many years to come: http://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/blog/the-eagle-effect-how-the-eda-industry-has-been-changed-forever/
Biggest piece of marketing drivel I've read in quite some time.

Autodesk can suck it.  I'll vote with my dollars.
 

Online KE5FX

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1320
  • Country: us
    • KE5FX.COM
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #467 on: March 09, 2017, 06:07:36 am »
Wow.  That blog post is an impressive exercise in "trying too hard."
 

Online madires

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5655
  • Country: de
  • A qualified hobbyist ;)
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #468 on: March 09, 2017, 07:41:00 am »
Making a semi-professional EDA tool more expensive (via the subscription model) doesn't make it a 1st class tool over night disrupting the whole EDA industry. What a marketing nonsense! Autodesk don't get it, they've crashed Eagle badly.
 

Offline gildasd

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 930
  • Country: be
  • Engineering watch officer - Apprentice Officer
    • Sci-fi Meanderings
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #469 on: March 09, 2017, 08:20:48 am »
At least if they offered a "buy" option next to the subscription, giving consumers choice and not alienating their current client base..
But the mere thought of that would blow an artery in their MBA corrupted minds.
I'm electronically illiterate
 

Offline Zbig

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 899
  • Country: pl
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #470 on: March 09, 2017, 10:51:37 am »
Biggest piece of marketing drivel I've read in quite some time.

Jeez, what were they smoking? FR4?
 
The following users thanked this post: hammy, MagicSmoker, gildasd, 2N3055

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6617
  • Country: gb
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #471 on: March 09, 2017, 10:56:57 am »
I'm also not sure where they're getting that other products are going to be playing catch up.

Playing catch up in the race to the bottom perhaps?  >:D
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
The following users thanked this post: gildasd

Offline rx8pilot

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3610
  • Country: us
  • If you want more money, be more valuable.
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #472 on: March 09, 2017, 05:08:45 pm »
At least if they offered a "buy" option next to the subscription, giving consumers choice and not alienating their current client base..
But the mere thought of that would blow an artery in their MBA corrupted minds.

I don't think the MBA minds are corrupted. I believe they are looking at this subscription model as the only financially viable way to deal with it. The purchase model is likely viewed as too unstable and unpredictable so it makes no business sense to pander to the upset customers (like me) that will buy a license and never update it for many years - if ever. The business planners are saying that the buy model is a near guaranteed fail, and the subscription model is at least a better option even with the push-back from existing customers.

I have a paid license that is about 3 years old at $575, USD. That money was burned at CAD Soft in mere minutes or possibly seconds. Not sure how big the team is over there, but it is safe to say they have to sell a LOT of $575 products to just break even on development.

I can fully understand the desire to go subscription and I don't think it is a greedy money grabbing decision either. To me, it seems like a desperate reach for a glimmer of hope in a market that seems very difficult to survive in. The product is a barely professional tool that requires a lot of money to improve. If they improve it, they may still find that very few want to actually pay much for it. I have my sights set on Altium and the best thing Autodesk/Eagle is doing is getting Altium to offer better pricing.

If Eagle looked like it was going to get more than a fresh coat of paint - I would reconsider. I don't see it going in that direction, though. If it was a substantially better tool than today and offered a perpetual license that was still lower than Altium.....maybe. But a pseudo-pro tool as a subscription? Nope.

After a demo with Altium - the extra money will probably be made up very quickly for my small operation.
Factory400 - the worlds smallest factory. https://www.youtube.com/c/Factory400
 

Offline H.O

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 682
  • Country: se
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #473 on: March 09, 2017, 07:14:28 pm »
I've already voted with my money, I've got a CircuitStudio license comming - whenever THEY (Farnell & Altium) get THEIR shit together.

Perhaps it's one of my more expensive knee-jerk reactions and one I might regret down the road but that's how strongly I feel about the subscription model. It's not so much the fact thay it costs x amount of cash each month (ah, crap, it's that too) but rather that I don't have any guarantees how much it'll cost "next month" (or next year).

And this month the board I'm working on may "fit" EAGLE Standard for $15/month which I may be OK with but who says Autodesk won't change their mind again and next month EAGLE Standard no longer supports the 160mm² area that I need, now I have to use Premium (or some other interim version they come up with) if I want to keep working on my board.

Oh, but if that happens you don't have to "update" to that new, limited, version of EAGLE standard, just stick with the version you have I hear you say. Well, who says I don't have to? Who says my version won't just stop working? Autodesk? The same people who said they won't go to a subscription based model? "Due to changes in the authentication process of the online subscription licenses you have to update to v8.3.x in order for the license to be able to be validated. Versions prior to v8.3.x will stop working when your current subscription period runs out. At the same time the price for your version has increased to $25/month.

I absolutely despise software on subscription. Autodesk may do whatever magic things they want with EAGLE they're not getting my money.
 
The following users thanked this post: gildasd, Karel

Offline GlowingGhoul

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 234
Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #474 on: March 09, 2017, 07:47:12 pm »
At least if they offered a "buy" option next to the subscription, giving consumers choice and not alienating their current client base..
But the mere thought of that would blow an artery in their MBA corrupted minds.

I don't think the MBA minds are corrupted. I believe they are looking at this subscription model as the only financially viable way to deal with it. The purchase model is likely viewed as too unstable and unpredictable so it makes no business sense to pander to the upset customers (like me) that will buy a license and never update it for many years - if ever. The business planners are saying that the buy model is a near guaranteed fail, and the subscription model is at least a better option even with the push-back from existing customers.

I have a paid license that is about 3 years old at $575, USD. That money was burned at CAD Soft in mere minutes or possibly seconds. Not sure how big the team is over there, but it is safe to say they have to sell a LOT of $575 products to just break even on development.

I can fully understand the desire to go subscription and I don't think it is a greedy money grabbing decision either. To me, it seems like a desperate reach for a glimmer of hope in a market that seems very difficult to survive in. The product is a barely professional tool that requires a lot of money to improve. If they improve it, they may still find that very few want to actually pay much for it. I have my sights set on Altium and the best thing Autodesk/Eagle is doing is getting Altium to offer better pricing.

If Eagle looked like it was going to get more than a fresh coat of paint - I would reconsider. I don't see it going in that direction, though. If it was a substantially better tool than today and offered a perpetual license that was still lower than Altium.....maybe. But a pseudo-pro tool as a subscription? Nope.

After a demo with Altium - the extra money will probably be made up very quickly for my small operation.

And that's what should worry Eagle users. IF there was a significant upgrade in the near future, they probably would have held off the subscription model. After all, why would you switch your reluctant customer base to an unwanted subscription model, losing countless customers and goodwill in the process, and then hand them a nicely upgraded Eagle for no additional charge? No, if a significant upgrade was in the cards they would have used that as leverage. To me, this smacks of Autodesk deciding not to invest in Eagle significantly unless they can demonstrate enough reliable revenue coming from subscribers to the existing version.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 08:24:54 pm by GlowingGhoul »
 
The following users thanked this post: gildasd


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf