Author Topic: The Autodesk Eagle edition  (Read 144323 times)

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Offline gildasd

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #525 on: March 17, 2017, 07:48:46 am »
I have worked on multiple projects that the network we used had to be air gaped from the internet.  That would preclude using Eagle now.
Same thing here, air gapping isthe only viable option for smaller companies.
I'm electronically illiterate
 

Offline jgarc063

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #526 on: March 17, 2017, 09:55:53 pm »
Could someone even attempt to describe to me how obstacle avoidance is any different from the follow-me router in single-ended mode, as demonstrated in this video from 2011?


Did they really just change the name, perhaps tweak 5% of the behavior, and call it a new feature? It's not even push-and-shove!!!

What the actual eff.

Hi Macegr,

It's actually very different, you would have to try it for yourself to see the difference. But here's the explanation.

Obstacle avoidance sets the ground floor to build push and shove so this is a milestone on the way to push and shove. The follow-me router is basically the autorouter being run on a single airwire either from one end or from both ends of the airwire. Depending on your mouse position the Autorouter will come up with a route which may include any number of transitions or bends, you can't predict what the follow-me router will produce in relation to your mouse position.

The Obstacle avoidance mode works differently, as long as you don't encounter an obstacle you are just manually routing like normal with full control. Once you encounter an obstacle, EAGLE will immediately walk around it, following your mouse cursor. This affords more predictability and hence greater control while routing. With the Follow-Me Router you are merely giving EAGLE two points and letting EAGLE figure out how it wants to get there, with this mode your dictating to EAGLE how it gets from point A to point B and it's smart enough to walk around barriers.

I understand the confusion from the videos since you can't see the mouse clicks, but try it out and you'll see it's nothing like the Follow me router.

I hope this is helpful.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
 
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Offline Karel

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #527 on: March 18, 2017, 09:17:57 pm »
 

Offline timgiles

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #528 on: March 18, 2017, 10:12:26 pm »
Yeah, I always wondered why Eagle devs could not keep the GUI reactive whilst Eagle was caching info like the Library - and provide feeback to the user this was happening...  |O
 

Offline ElectronicCat

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #529 on: March 19, 2017, 01:00:41 am »
Anyone know how licence migration from 7.0 to 8.0 is supposed to work? I applied for a free student licence just before they were bought out which I've mostly been using, but I recently downloaded 8.0 to try. I only just noticed, but it seems to think I have a full unlimited commercial licence for 8.0 whereas on 7.7 it is correctly identified as a student licence which expires at the end of this year. Have I really managed to get a free unlimited commercial licence?
 

Offline GlowingGhoul

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #530 on: March 19, 2017, 01:28:21 am »
 

Online ebastler

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #531 on: March 19, 2017, 07:40:43 am »
Anyone know how licence migration from 7.0 to 8.0 is supposed to work? I applied for a free student licence just before they were bought out which I've mostly been using, but I recently downloaded 8.0 to try. I only just noticed, but it seems to think I have a full unlimited commercial licence for 8.0 whereas on 7.7 it is correctly identified as a student licence which expires at the end of this year. Have I really managed to get a free unlimited commercial licence?

Technically, the educational version should be identical to the commercial premium version anyway. Whether commercial use is now allowed or not is debatable, I would say. Even if the splash screen does not state the "educational use only" clause, your applicable license contract still does. On the other hand, if you choose to release a small PCB commercially, or do some freelance PCB design with your Eagle version, I doubt that Autodesk would come to haunt you... Unless you start bragging about it in online forums, maybe...  ;)

As to the "unlimited" aspect: All Eagle licenses are time-limited (subscription only) now, and I'm pretty sure so is yours.  :--
 
 

Online KE5FX

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #532 on: March 19, 2017, 08:13:23 pm »
Nothing's more educational than shipping hardware!
 

Offline jgarc063

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #533 on: March 20, 2017, 03:45:39 pm »
https://youtu.be/zB3qGBPZjQY

 :palm:

Hi Karel,

I hope you're having a good day. Try running EAGLE using the eagle_SW_OpenGL.bat that comes in EAGLE's installation directory. For users that just get the blank screen this is the current solution.

Please let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.(Remember it's about stuff that I can actually do).

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
 

Offline XFDDesign

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #534 on: March 21, 2017, 06:54:10 pm »
No - before if you had a license that expired - it would cost you dearly to "come back" in the upgrade/maintenance fold. So if you stopped updating at v2012 - to update to v2015 you would have to pay extra for the time missed. Now you just stop - and when you want to restart - you just subscribe again. So it is a no-brainer to stop subscriptions. Any financial departments will focus on expensive subscriptions in a downturn. If only downside is " loss of access " at end of period - that is the first place they will insist on saving. A big company might now cut all subscriptions - but maybe take 75% offline for a while.

You're assuming that the subscription price is going to be a constant throughout time, however. No one has any reason to believe that is going to be the case.
 

Offline EBRAddict

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #535 on: March 21, 2017, 11:39:56 pm »
:palm:

World of Tanks  ;D  I played 2011-2013.
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #536 on: February 06, 2018, 04:48:23 pm »
For EAGLE users who dislike the new subscription model introduced by Autodesk, here is a special offer from DipTrace to entice you to make the move:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/diptrace/diptrace-special-offer-for-eagle-users/

Added: DipTrace Ver 3.2 added full support to export DipTrace files back to EAGLE. An import filter (for EAGLE to DipTrace) was already in place from an earlier version:

https://diptrace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11893
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 05:04:17 pm by DerekG »
I also sat between Elvis & Bigfoot on the UFO.
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #537 on: February 06, 2018, 05:31:06 pm »
I finally [hesitantly] paid up to Autodesk for Fusion 360 and Eagle to replace Solidworks, MasterCAM, and Eagle 6.5.

I prefer not to have a cloud data system, but for my business, it is not a deal killer. Overall, the price difference is staggering and the capability of Fusion 360 is rather amazing. After 20 years of Solidworks I was very hesitant but pleasantly surprised to see what I get for a fraction of the cost. This is not the thread for me to dive into that part of it though....let me comment on Eagle.

First - let me thank the Autodesk Eagle team for introducing some critical and welcome updates. They have effectively brought the software up from 1998 to about 2007. Reasonably useful push and shove routing, some updates in part management, some integration into Fusion 360 are all excellent things. It still feels like 10 year old software in so many ways. The graphics are comedy gold. Especially crappy when working on multilayer boards. The graphics in Circuit Studio and Altium Designer are literally a decade (or more) ahead. Vastly easier to interpret. Eagle has made some updates that amount to putting lipstick on a pig. It just makes a prettier pig.

The good news is that they seem to be rather aggressive at making improvements. Obviously, I am able to make PCB's with the tool but just with some frustration.
New CAM processor is better - direct ZIP output, more control over output details.
Obstacle avoidance routing is VERY welcome.
Loop delete routing saves time.
Net labels on traces is nice (this happened a while ago I think)


Critical things that are still awful.
[still learning and discovering new features, but some observations]
Differential routing is still level 0.
Editing an existing trace with push and shove does not seem to be a feature [maybe I have not yet figured it out?]
The graphics engine is still 1998 - they added a patch feature that shows a rendered PCB in a separate window which is at least an effort.
Layer transparency is TERRIBLE.
Selection tool is still not able to select an entire track to change width
I still cannot edit a track with radiused corners and keep the radii tangent to the track.
There is still no (apparent) snap vertical-horizontal-45 degree. Making small edits to tracks a pain since they tend to end up crooked and with various angles.
While making a new part footprint - there is still no way to directly dimension as you would in any other CAD program. SO MUCH WASTED TIME trying to figure out the distances based only on the center of the pad. This is roughly 1990 level software design. Windows 3.1.
The stupid HTML tags are still needed in the comments/descriptions - seriously. Put a text bar at the top to format text like people do in 2018.

Those are just a few low-lights for the moment. Overall, I am happy with the updates and upgrades. Eagle side by side with Fusion 360 is like a 20 year old dating a 75 year old though. Just looks wrong even if they are in love.
Factory400 - the worlds smallest factory. https://www.youtube.com/c/Factory400
 
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Online ebastler

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #538 on: February 06, 2018, 05:41:18 pm »
Eagle side by side with Fusion 360 is like a 20 year old dating a 75 year old though. Just looks wrong even if they are in love.

 :-DD
Made my day, thank you!
(And thank you for a great update on the state of affairs, by the way!)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 05:42:57 pm by ebastler »
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #539 on: February 08, 2018, 06:02:07 am »
Ok....two straight 12 hour days with the latest Eagle.

I still hate it more than any other software I have had to use in my profession.....which goes back to 1990. It is not for lack of knowing or trying either - I am 4 years into this software. In the end, I get PCB's but not without millions of cuss words, holes in the wall from flying coffee cups, etc.

Setting up blind/buried vias is a suicide mission.
Duplicating a part to make a minor variation - slow death.
Editing an outline is pure pain

If I was put in charge I would consider pulling the plug and starting over. It. Is. That. Bad.

Stuck for now....but am on a mission to tell everyone I know that life is too precious to use Eagle.
Factory400 - the worlds smallest factory. https://www.youtube.com/c/Factory400
 

Offline james_s

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #540 on: February 08, 2018, 06:16:05 am »
If it's that bad why do you keep using it?

I tried every EDA I could get my hands on and determined that they all suck, so in the end I went with KiCAD since it's free and stuck with it until I knew my way around the quirks.
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #541 on: February 08, 2018, 06:47:15 am »
I do not have enough time to learn a new system, build a new library, and get it to output the pick and place data as my machine needs it.

My guess is that it would take a considerable amount of time to transition to any other tool. I demo'd Circuit Studio and it seemed like a huge step up..... except for the time I did not have to really learn it, get my library setup with part numbers etc.

Like I said, I am stuck for now. Also, I am moving from Solidworks and Mastercam to Fusion 360 and that is going very well. Fusion 360 is rather polished but still has a very steep learning curve.

Short and misplld from my mobile......

Factory400 - the worlds smallest factory. https://www.youtube.com/c/Factory400
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #542 on: February 08, 2018, 09:55:02 am »
What I don't get from autodesk is that their incredible multimillion $  Cad program Fusion360 is totally free for non profit orgs and hobbieists but their handicapped Eagle has to be licensed per month?
Like they are throwing away buckets of $ out the left window trying to scrape in a few envelopes of $ on the right window, I don't get it at all  :-//
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #543 on: February 08, 2018, 10:34:29 am »
Ok....two straight 12 hour days with the latest Eagle.

I still hate it more than any other software I have had to use in my profession.....

Stuck for now....but am on a mission to tell everyone I know that life is too precious to use Eagle.

Easy solution. DipTrace has both EAGLE import & export filters.

Simply export your final design into EAGLE format & hand that to your boss. He will never know the difference.

I demo'd Circuit Studio and it seemed like a huge step up..... except for the time I did not have to really learn it, get my library setup with part numbers etc.

You can read all your library components into DipTrace ..............

Circuit Studio is actually not too bad. I have a licensed copy of Altium .......... but simply prefer the logical menu systems of DipTrace - it actually reminds me of Protel which is good :)

I guess you have to make a choice:

Either struggle on for the rest of your days or be pro-active & put in a small amount of effort in so that you enjoy your work for the next 20 years.
I also sat between Elvis & Bigfoot on the UFO.
 

Offline rachaelp

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #544 on: February 08, 2018, 11:13:39 am »
Ok....two straight 12 hour days with the latest Eagle.

I still hate it more than any other software I have had to use in my profession.....which goes back to 1990. It is not for lack of knowing or trying either - I am 4 years into this software. In the end, I get PCB's but not without millions of cuss words, holes in the wall from flying coffee cups, etc.

I guess you've never had the pleasure of using DxDesigner then.... That is by far the most painful user experience I have ever had the misfortune to have. EAGLE on the other hand, once I got over the initial hump of learning how it all worked, it actually became quite usable.

Setting up blind/buried vias is a suicide mission.
Duplicating a part to make a minor variation - slow death.
Editing an outline is pure pain

The text string to configure the layers and all the via options does look alien to start off with but once you know the syntax and think about how the board is going to be built you can create almost any layer / via setup in seconds. For a 16-layer board with blind/buried/micro vias, a graphical setup would be a long winded click fest in comparison. It might be nice to have as as option for people that can't cope without everything being GUI based but it would probably be slower.

I don't get the difficulty on creating duplicate parts? I do this often....

I will give you the outline thing for complex board shapes, that could be improved a lot. Having said that, unless you are talking complex curves, then most things can be done with the mitre and split commands and suitable grid choices. It could be improved though I admit. You can of course create a board outline in Fusion360 and push that to EAGLE using the ECAD<->MCAD link. The whole Fusion360 thing can be a bit fiddly beyond that at the moment with the whole requirement to use Managed Libraries if you want to go the other way from EAGLE to Fusion360 and get a 3D model of your board.

If I was put in charge I would consider pulling the plug and starting over. It. Is. That. Bad.

Stuck for now....but am on a mission to tell everyone I know that life is too precious to use Eagle.

I actually don't find it that bad. There are pain points which they need to improve but they are adding a lot of improvements. I do a lot of boards, complex multi layer microvia boards with ridiculously fine pitch parts and whilst it's not without problems at times, it's never really given me any serious pain and I can produce boards quickly.

DxDesigner on the other hand....
I have a weakness for Test Equipment so can often be found having a TEA break (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/)
 
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Offline Wilksey

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #545 on: February 09, 2018, 03:22:36 pm »
For me the most annoying part about switching CAD tools is the libraries, the tools themselves are all pretty much the same you just have to navigate your way around, be it EAGLE, DipTrace, KiCAD, or even Altium.

WHA?! OK, obviously I am talking about simple boards with no high speed design and it will take a few days to learn how each tool does it's layer stackup management and what they call each layer etc etc, true, it's a learning curve, but depending on what your requirements are, might not be that big a learning curve, especially with online YT videos giving step by step guides to creating projects start - finish in these various tools.

That aside, what I did find however, when moving away from the dearly beloved (EAGLE 7 R.I.P), that some of the other tool creators have realised what a complete mockery Autodesk have done to EAGLE, given us the ability to import (with minor tweaks required) EAGLE libraries and projects, now they are not perfect, 85% I would say depending on the tool and your first thought is WTF has it done with this, but if you spend a few mins looking at it, it isn't too bad.

I believe KiCAD have just announced an importer for EAGLE with it's upcoming v5, and DipTrace offers a discount for users switching from EAGLE (not sure what ver) to DipTrace.

I still have 7.7 for legacy stuff, and some i have re-done with a different tool.
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #546 on: February 09, 2018, 05:41:43 pm »
For any given software - the transition from one to the other is an unknown. I was pleasantly surprised how well Circuit Studio was able to bring in Eagle projects. There was some weirdness, but did not seem too terrible. As expected  - everything is different. Sometimes with different names, and definitely in a different place.

To be successful in any ECAD software, I need to be able to create parts, create schematics, layout a PCB (with differential signals, blind/buried vias, etc), output manufacturing data for PCB fab and our own assembly process. My assumption is that in addition to the immediate learning curve, there will also be the unexpected stuff. For example, in Eagle I had an unexpected day-long struggle getting the drill file to output in the correct format.

At the moment, I am booked solid until about August (this is a very good problem to have). I am also behind schedule after taking about 2 weeks to set up a new machine, so truly have limited time to learn a new piece of software. I did make the decision to phase out Solidworks and Mastercam in favor of Fusion 360 but I have no expectation that I will make the switch for about 6 months. It very much looks like Fusion360 will be a step up for the long haul. In the ECAD world - I was not sure any of the packages would be a good long-term solution. Altium Designer looks amazing except the price is vicious. Circuit Studio looked like a better fit and a great price - but the learning curve is still there.

Here is ultimately what kept me with Eagle......they put out the most useful possible feature for an end-to-end designer like me.......a bi-directional connection with Fusion360. I was minutes away from picking Circuit Studio or Altium when I saw that. Nearly all of my projects are very integrated - where the mechanics and electronics are designed very close. When a part needs to move on the PCB - that can trigger a change on the mechanical side - and vise versa.

Whoever pushed for this mechanical integration feature at Autodesk get a big applause from me. The software is still full of warts, but this keeps me hangin' on.
Factory400 - the worlds smallest factory. https://www.youtube.com/c/Factory400
 

Offline janoc

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #547 on: February 25, 2018, 01:45:00 pm »
Those are just a few low-lights for the moment. Overall, I am happy with the updates and upgrades. Eagle side by side with Fusion 360 is like a 20 year old dating a 75 year old though. Just looks wrong even if they are in love.

 :-DD :-DD :-DD  :-+
 

Offline Karel

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #548 on: February 25, 2018, 03:24:49 pm »
Apart from the subscription, which is a no go for us, there's another problem since autodesk took over Eagle.
There are no stable versions anymore. Every new version comes with some bugfixes, but also with new bugs.
You report them, they fix it in a newer version which contains again new bugs...

They don't don't have LTS (long term support) releases. Releases that receive for at least one year bugfixes only and
has highest priority. All new features go into the next LTS release.

It looks like autodesk is aiming at the hobbyist/maker only.
 

Offline janoc

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #549 on: February 25, 2018, 03:32:59 pm »
Apart from the subscription, which is a no go for us, there's another problem since autodesk took over Eagle.
There are no stable versions anymore. Every new version comes with some bugfixes, but also with new bugs.
You report them, they fix it in a newer version which contains again new bugs...

They don't don't have LTS (long term support) releases. Releases that receive for at least one year bugfixes only and
has highest priority. All new features go into the next LTS release.

It looks like autodesk is aiming at the hobbyist/maker only.

That's the same model as Fusion360. If you sign up for Fusion you became a paying betatester for features intended for their Inventor and AutoCAD tools.
 


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