Author Topic: Autodesk buys Eagle  (Read 56137 times)

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Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2016, 07:38:18 pm »
  • I would hope they goto a subscription model at least as an option.
  • DRASTICALLY improve the process of building a new library part.
  • DRASTICALLY improve manual routing - push/shove, change trace width from point to point, and about 1000 other things
  • DRASTICALLY improve the geometry creation and control of PCB, holes, and other physical restrictions

Eagle is fine for hobby work, but it kills me in a professional environment where it sits side by side with high-end software.

It will go to a subscription model. AFAIK, all new auto desk licenses are subscription. And that's a good thing because it stabilizes funds/budgeting for development.
But it's a potential disaster for long-term maintainability.
Yes, but that has been a problem with CAD forever.  It's 2016, and I'm still battling the same file compatibility/portability issues of 1993.  It's better today, but this issue will never go away Autodesk or not.
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2016, 07:47:29 pm »
If Eagle files are simple enough to read directly and display the PCB as multiple websites such as OSHPARK are, expect someone to create a file updating service if there is a demand. I would expect OSHPARK to be very well positioned for this as every revision of Eagle seems to force changes in their interpreter.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2016, 07:48:32 pm »
It will go to a subscription model. AFAIK, all new auto desk licenses are subscription. And that's a good thing because it stabilizes funds/budgeting for development.
No, quite the opposite actually. A subscription model which implies time limited licenses means they can fire all the software developers and keep making money from the same shitty piece of software. A one-time license fee model is way better because it makes updates which add functionality necessary in order to keep customers paying. That works best for all parties involved.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 07:51:24 pm by nctnico »
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Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2016, 07:54:29 pm »
If Eagle files are simple enough to read directly and display the PCB as multiple websites such as OSHPARK are, expect someone to create a file updating service if there is a demand. I would expect OSHPARK to be very well positioned for this as every revision of Eagle seems to force changes in their interpreter.

It's all XML I think. Rather simple for any parser to open and interpret. Very web friendly.
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Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2016, 08:00:10 pm »
It will go to a subscription model. AFAIK, all new auto desk licenses are subscription. And that's a good thing because it stabilizes funds/budgeting for development.
No, quite the opposite actually. A subscription model which implies time limited licenses means they can fire all the software developers and keep making money from the same shitty piece of software. A one-time license fee model is way better because it makes updates which add functionality necessary in order to keep customers paying. That works best for all parties involved.

I am not saying Autodesk walks on water. They have made some major blunders over the years. That said, I've been using their stuff for 28 years now and not seen them do what you describe. Certainly some software goes obsolete, but I'm still getting AutoCad updates. And frankly, as much as a command-line curmudgeon I am, I like the newer UI experience.

Financially, a steady income stream is vastly better for keeping developers on the job. The feast/famine cycle of standalone upgrades is just hell on people by creating artificial boom/bust cycles.

So, I feel rightfully hopeful for Eagle. The sky is not falling.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 08:02:59 pm by LabSpokane »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2016, 08:05:38 pm »
So, I feel rightfully hopeful for Eagle.
From a practical point of view a lot (=making changes/extension) depends on how well Eagle is written and whether they can keep the core developers on board IF they are still working for Cadsoft.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2016, 08:10:23 pm »
So, I feel rightfully hopeful for Eagle.
From a practical point of view a lot (=making changes/extension) depends on how well Eagle is written and whether they can keep the core developers on board IF they are still working for Cadsoft.

I suspect you may well be correct. Eagle likely hasn't progressed because it is spaghetti code. Autodesk may have simply bought the user list and website and may be starting over using their own core libraries.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2016, 08:20:05 pm »
So, I feel rightfully hopeful for Eagle.
From a practical point of view a lot (=making changes/extension) depends on how well Eagle is written and whether they can keep the core developers on board IF they are still working for Cadsoft.

I suspect you may well be correct. Eagle likely hasn't progressed because it is spaghetti code. Autodesk may have simply bought the user list and website and may be starting over using their own core libraries.

Didn't they leave to develop Windows 8?
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2016, 08:39:39 pm »
I made my first PCB's in AutoCAD (Version 2.3 DOS) step by step by hand in the early 1980s, when there was no PCB software available.
May be this is a good thing, I am still using AutoCAD from time to time.

You mean there was no cheap PCB software available. We used cadstar on a PC-AT in 1985, befor that you needed a workstation
CADSTAR was not available until the late 1980s, may be 88 or 89
Orcad came out before but was sooo expensive
AutoCAD was a real option, at least here in Germany
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Offline Kjelt

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2016, 09:01:45 pm »
A lot of assumptions flying over the table and that from scientists.
For me a license model would be the end for eagle or any other software package that is. I don,t pay for
Som ething temporary, unless I would make money with it to earn it back, which i do not.
 

Offline jpanhalt

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2016, 09:58:21 pm »
I suspect you may well be correct. Eagle likely hasn't progressed because it is spaghetti code. Autodesk may have simply bought the user list and website and may be starting over using their own core libraries.

Have you reviewed the source code?  While you are at it, what's the difference between spaghetti code and complied C?

John
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2016, 10:29:13 pm »
I suspect you may well be correct. Eagle likely hasn't progressed because it is spaghetti code. Autodesk may have simply bought the user list and website and may be starting over using their own core libraries.

Have you reviewed the source code?  While you are at it, what's the difference between spaghetti code and complied C?

John

No. You wrote it, I'm assuming?
 

Offline jpanhalt

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2016, 10:40:15 pm »
You are the one who called it spaghetti code.  That presupposes that you have some idea of the code's structure.

But then for a Pastafarian, it must be a complement.  I apologize for misinterpreting your comment.  My sniff detector went off scale  :bullshit:

John
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2016, 10:42:37 pm »
  • I would hope they goto a subscription model at least as an option.
  • DRASTICALLY improve the process of building a new library part.
  • DRASTICALLY improve manual routing - push/shove, change trace width from point to point, and about 1000 other things
  • DRASTICALLY improve the geometry creation and control of PCB, holes, and other physical restrictions

Eagle is fine for hobby work, but it kills me in a professional environment where it sits side by side with high-end software.

It will go to a subscription model. AFAIK, all new auto desk licenses are subscription. And that's a good thing because it stabilizes funds/budgeting for development.
But it's a potential disaster for long-term maintainability.
Yes, but that has been a problem with CAD forever.  It's 2016, and I'm still battling the same file compatibility/portability issues of 1993.  It's better today, but this issue will never go away Autodesk or not.
Subscription models are inherently more of a problem though. If you have old standalone software, you can still run it on an old machine or VM if you need to update an old design. If you've stopped subscribing ( e.g. moved to a different solution) and re-sub cost is too much ( e.g. they only offer annual subs)  or the maker decides to drop it, you're 100% hosed unless you can hack it.
For products that are expected to have a long lifetime, any subscription package is a very risky choice.
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Offline jpanhalt

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2016, 10:52:04 pm »
@mikeselectricstuff

I agree with your assessment of subscription software.

I currently have an educator/non-profit license, but after reviewing today's price structure, I find the Eagle Make Personal license very attractive for my uses.  It is a little more, but offers more too.  The question I have put to Eagle is whether an upgraded/new license today will include version 8.x.x when it becomes available.

John

 

Offline PCB.Wiz

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2016, 10:58:07 pm »
Subscription models are inherently more of a problem though. If you have old standalone software, you can still run it on an old machine or VM if you need to update an old design. If you've stopped subscribing ( e.g. moved to a different solution) and re-sub cost is too much ( e.g. they only offer annual subs)  or the maker decides to drop it, you're 100% hosed unless you can hack it.
For products that are expected to have a long lifetime, any subscription package is a very risky choice.

Exactly. The BIG risk with subscription is the Mafia/Hostage-ware relationship that can too easily develop.

Corporate Bean counters decide they need to 'boost takeup' so they have an expiring license - no pay, no run.
They also want to turf-protect their other products, so they use binary/encrypted data bases.

Mentor are (currently?) following this model on their Digikey version of crippled-PADS, and it is getting serious push-back from users.
So much, that it seems Digikey has multiple EDA offerings now.

Proper version control also dictates non-expiring licenses, but again that is in direct conflict with the maximise cash flow edicts.

Some play tricks to lock-your-data, so you can only modify designs, not create new ones.
Alas, if their code decides you have crossed some invisible boundary, you are hosed.

This is why ASCII open-databases like KiCad (and a few others) is really the only way to accept any modern EDA design.


 

Offline langwadt

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2016, 11:01:19 pm »
  • I would hope they goto a subscription model at least as an option.
  • DRASTICALLY improve the process of building a new library part.
  • DRASTICALLY improve manual routing - push/shove, change trace width from point to point, and about 1000 other things
  • DRASTICALLY improve the geometry creation and control of PCB, holes, and other physical restrictions

Eagle is fine for hobby work, but it kills me in a professional environment where it sits side by side with high-end software.

It will go to a subscription model. AFAIK, all new auto desk licenses are subscription. And that's a good thing because it stabilizes funds/budgeting for development.
But it's a potential disaster for long-term maintainability.
Yes, but that has been a problem with CAD forever.  It's 2016, and I'm still battling the same file compatibility/portability issues of 1993.  It's better today, but this issue will never go away Autodesk or not.
Subscription models are inherently more of a problem though. If you have old standalone software, you can still run it on an old machine or VM if you need to update an old design. If you've stopped subscribing ( e.g. moved to a different solution) and re-sub cost is too much ( e.g. they only offer annual subs)  or the maker decides to drop it, you're 100% hosed unless you can hack it.
For products that are expected to have a long lifetime, any subscription package is a very risky choice.

They may have changed it but the subscription model for the Xilinx design tools used to be
that when you stopped paying the tool still worked but you were not supposed to use it for new designs




 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2016, 11:09:32 pm »
They may have changed it but the subscription model for the Xilinx design tools used to be
that when you stopped paying the tool still worked but you were not supposed to use it for new designs
That's OK as long as they have no way to stop it working - FPGA software tends to come with some sort of time-limited license, which becomes a problem once they decide to stop supporting it.

There was a thread here from someone wanting to maintain an old Lattice design, where Lattice claimed they had no way of generating licenses for the old software
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Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2016, 12:01:00 am »
I made my first PCB's in AutoCAD (Version 2.3 DOS) step by step by hand in the early 1980s, when there was no PCB software available.
May be this is a good thing, I am still using AutoCAD from time to time.

You mean there was no cheap PCB software available. We used cadstar on a PC-AT in 1985, befor that you needed a workstation

I used Wintek's sMARTwORK for DOS. I think it came out in '85. I think it was about 1000UKP.

Ian.

Hi

I worked for Wintek when they started their PCB software lineup. That was in 1974 .... Yes, there are some stories, all better told over a beer.

Bob
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2016, 12:54:38 am »
Have you reviewed the source code?  While you are at it, what's the difference between spaghetti code and complied C?
Spaghetti code has to be read and understood by a human.
Not only that but taking over a software project which isn't properly documented and/or uses 'clever' coding techniques is a major task not to be taken lightly. In many cases small changes can have negative side effects. Which takes me to another problem area: a complete test plan to check for bugs introduced into known good parts. Management isn't always aware of these kind of problems lurking around and some can become impressed by utterly useless Doxygen reports. All in all a new version of Eagle on short notice are likely to depend on the original development & test team staying on board.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 12:57:28 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2016, 01:42:09 am »
Autodesk will probably turn it into windows(10) only cloud-based spyware with *very* limited trial/free use.

i think i will be spending this weekend learning how to use KiCad - before i actually need to!!
 

Offline technolomaniac

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2016, 11:59:03 am »
  • I would hope they goto a subscription model at least as an option.
  • DRASTICALLY improve the process of building a new library part.
  • DRASTICALLY improve manual routing - push/shove, change trace width from point to point, and about 1000 other things
  • DRASTICALLY improve the geometry creation and control of PCB, holes, and other physical restrictions

Eagle is fine for hobby work, but it kills me in a professional environment where it sits side by side with high-end software.

Hi Stj -- As the guy now at the helm of the electronics tools at Autodesk, I want to stress we've got *all* of these items on 'the list'.  Of course it'll take us a bit of time to get our developer-bearings, but no one on the Autodesk or the Cadsoft side, working on this, is new to ecad tools.  What I'm most excited about is that this is a chance for the Eagle development team to really expand and address a number of the things users have requested the most.  So expect some really interesting things to come!
 

Offline technolomaniac

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2016, 12:09:31 pm »
Well, if Autodesk bought them, then forget about anything that was somehow good on Eagle. It will likely become Windows only and an expensive slow piece of junk - as pretty much all software Autodesk has acquired over the years (Maya, 3D Studio, ...)

@Janoc ...Nice try but as the guy running this game for both Autodesk and Cadsoft, this couldn't be further from the truth.  Eagle a) wont be windows only (it's developed on linux), b) wont be slow (still faster than virtually anything out there), c) wont be junk and as importantly - d) wont be expensive (pricing model isn't changing and it will in fact, be free to students & schools now as a 6 layer license, to ensure they can do wireless design, impedance controlled routes, memory routing, etc...the stuff that's now essential for building good electronics).  Feature list to come. 

And with regard to both Maya and 3DS, both tools have only gained adoption since Autodesk's acquisition and are now free to students and startups.  Hate to feed the troll but it'd be good to give it time rather than heap insults.  The development team that this is folding in to is made up some folks with a lot more experience building ecad tools than your comments might imply. 
 

Offline technolomaniac

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2016, 12:21:29 pm »
So, I feel rightfully hopeful for Eagle.
From a practical point of view a lot (=making changes/extension) depends on how well Eagle is written and whether they can keep the core developers on board IF they are still working for Cadsoft.

hi nctnico!  I'm a part of Autodesk and the guy who this rolls into.  Just a temperature check: the developers from Cadsoft and Autodesk are both stoked about this and the Cadsoft team is super excited to have more resources that all come from the ecad / eda universe to help only grow the tool.  We're in Munich today - heads down - building the product roadmap and we'll share more when the time's right.  :)
 

Offline technolomaniac

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2016, 12:33:38 pm »
A lot of assumptions flying over the table and that from scientists.
For me a license model would be the end for eagle or any other software package that is. I don,t pay for
Som ething temporary, unless I would make money with it to earn it back, which i do not.

hi kjelt - speaking for autodesk / cadsoft, the free license will continue as free.  the paid license will remain perpetual.  the 2-layer educational licenses will go away and be replaced instead with a better, 6-layer license free EDU license to students / schools so they can build PCBs with such ~modern :) features, like impedance controlled routing, antennas + feed lines, wifi/ble, memory busses, etc.  :)
 


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