Author Topic: Autodesk buys Eagle  (Read 56051 times)

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Online Monkeh

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2016, 11:26:20 pm »
b) wont be slow (still faster than virtually anything out there)

Rendering performance with multiple layers (especially polygon pours) is poor, and there's a huge delay opening any library related tools after adding or removing large numbers of libraries (poor XML parsing performance? It's not I/O related, SSDs make no difference), as often happens when it forgets which you had selected, a thrice-daily occurance IME. Hopefully those are in your crosshairs. Relative to 6.6 mind you, the licensing model handily prevents me upgrading.

Don't mind the vitriol and ignorance displayed in this thread, there are plenty of reasonably happy Eagle users around.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2016, 11:47:47 pm »
hi kjelt - speaking for autodesk / cadsoft, the free license will continue as free.  the paid license will remain perpetual.  the 2-layer educational licenses will go away and be replaced instead with a better, 6-layer license free EDU license to students / schools so they can build PCBs with such ~modern :) features, like impedance controlled routing, antennas + feed lines, wifi/ble, memory busses, etc.  :)
Great to hear that your team is really going to put some effort in bringing Eagle up in the ranks of pcb cad software  :-+
As a hobbieist I have bought the non commercial license a few years back.
I will wait anxiously for the new software to arrive, but take your time, better a good finished product than half work, but I am confident that is the plan.
Then perhaps I can upgrade or even buy again a new non-commercial license if required, free is not necessary but it would be nice if it stays in the hobbieist price range as previously  ;)
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2016, 12:20:34 am »
I made my first PCB's in AutoCAD (Version 2.3 DOS) step by step by hand in the early 1980s, when there was no PCB software available.
May be this is a good thing, I am still using AutoCAD from time to time.

You mean there was no cheap PCB software available. We used cadstar on a PC-AT in 1985, befor that you needed a workstation

I used Wintek's sMARTwORK for DOS. I think it came out in '85. I think it was about 1000UKP.

Ian.

Hi

I worked for Wintek when they started their PCB software lineup. That was in 1974 .... Yes, there are some stories, all better told over a beer.

Bob
all hail to  smartWORK and HiWIRE !

F1  place pad F2 remove pad F3 place trace f4 remove trace f5 fatten / narrow trace
dip e 600 40 : draw DIP , pointing east , 600 mil pitch , 40 pins ..

i used that in 1988 ... still remember most commands...
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2016, 12:33:14 am »
They can't make Eagle worse either.

they always can.

subscription based eagle. how would you like that? base licence is "freemium" licence which means that you always have to be connected to the internet
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2016, 12:39:57 am »
I made my first PCB's in AutoCAD (Version 2.3 DOS) step by step by hand in the early 1980s, when there was no PCB software available.
May be this is a good thing, I am still using AutoCAD from time to time.

did the same in high school... but 7 years ago :) we were asked to design an output relay board for PLC. we didn't have any EDA tool but there was no need anyway, the board was so simple.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2016, 01:18:12 am »
They can't make Eagle worse either.

they always can.

subscription based eagle. how would you like that? base licence is "freemium" licence which means that you always have to be connected to the internet
You can always use the current version to design a PCB. Or a rock. Probably the rock is more user friendly.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2016, 01:34:38 am »
They can't make Eagle worse either.

they always can.

subscription based eagle. how would you like that? base licence is "freemium" licence which means that you always have to be connected to the internet
You can always use the current version to design a PCB. Or a rock. Probably the rock is more user friendly.

Could be worse, could be Circuit OnlyHalfOfItWorks Maker.
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2016, 02:41:55 am »
They can't make Eagle worse either.

they always can.

subscription based eagle. how would you like that? base licence is "freemium" licence which means that you always have to be connected to the internet
You can always use the current version to design a PCB. Or a rock. Probably the rock is more user friendly.
Implying i use eagle at all. I gave up on it years ago

funny story, since 3.0 diptrace supports ascii based files. not as simple as a XML but whatever, that's still great
 

Offline daqq

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2016, 02:53:18 am »
I hope they don’t make it into some cloud based abomination…
Believe it or not, pointy haired people do exist!
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Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2016, 04:48:07 am »
So, I feel rightfully hopeful for Eagle.
From a practical point of view a lot (=making changes/extension) depends on how well Eagle is written and whether they can keep the core developers on board IF they are still working for Cadsoft.

hi nctnico!  I'm a part of Autodesk and the guy who this rolls into.  Just a temperature check: the developers from Cadsoft and Autodesk are both stoked about this and the Cadsoft team is super excited to have more resources that all come from the ecad / eda universe to help only grow the tool.  We're in Munich today - heads down - building the product roadmap and we'll share more when the time's right.  :)

Thank you. I'm really happy that you've decided to retain the Cadsoft team and work with them. That speaks volumes as far as being a classy organization. I also would like to commend you for communicating directly with users, however vitriolic some of them may be. Have a good time in Munich! 
 
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Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #60 on: June 30, 2016, 07:41:44 am »
I made my first PCB's in AutoCAD (Version 2.3 DOS) step by step by hand in the early 1980s, when there was no PCB software available.
May be this is a good thing, I am still using AutoCAD from time to time.

You mean there was no cheap PCB software available. We used cadstar on a PC-AT in 1985, befor that you needed a workstation

I used Wintek's sMARTwORK for DOS. I think it came out in '85. I think it was about 1000UKP.

Ian.

Hi

I worked for Wintek when they started their PCB software lineup. That was in 1974 .... Yes, there are some stories, all better told over a beer.

Bob
all hail to  smartWORK and HiWIRE !

F1  place pad F2 remove pad F3 place trace f4 remove trace f5 fatten / narrow trace
dip e 600 40 : draw DIP , pointing east , 600 mil pitch , 40 pins ..

i used that in 1988 ... still remember most commands...

Hi

I was long gone by the time they turned it into anything that you could run without a pretty massive amount (volume wise) of hardware. It is a bit amazing how keyboard shortcuts stick with you. I can still remember a number of the ones I used on CAD in the 80's ...

Bob
 

Offline PCB.Wiz

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #61 on: June 30, 2016, 07:43:59 am »
  the paid license will remain perpetual.  the 2-layer educational licenses will go away and be replaced instead with a better, 6-layer license free EDU license to students / schools so they can build PCBs with such ~modern :) features, like impedance controlled routing, antennas + feed lines, wifi/ble, memory busses, etc.  :)

Sounds like good product management.
What about import translators from other EDA packages ?

Also, can you clarify 'perpetual' ?.
I take it that means no dates in the License file, just a 'less than or equal to' Product Version which allows any compatible older version to also be run.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 08:05:41 am by PCB.Wiz »
 

Offline skipjackrc4

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #62 on: June 30, 2016, 10:05:55 am »
I personally think this is fantastic news.  Eagle is, currently, almost unusable for any moderately complex design.  I've liked every piece of AutoDesk software that I've ever used, so I'm pretty excited to see how they change things.
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #63 on: June 30, 2016, 10:11:47 am »
Altium has been after me for $10k license - maybe I should be patient. I don't design a big volume of boards, but when I do - I am in a huge hurry and they get more complex every time.
Factory400 - the worlds smallest factory. https://www.youtube.com/c/Factory400
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #64 on: June 30, 2016, 10:14:30 am »
So, I feel rightfully hopeful for Eagle.
From a practical point of view a lot (=making changes/extension) depends on how well Eagle is written and whether they can keep the core developers on board IF they are still working for Cadsoft.
hi nctnico!  I'm a part of Autodesk and the guy who this rolls into.  Just a temperature check: the developers from Cadsoft and Autodesk are both stoked about this and the Cadsoft team is super excited to have more resources that all come from the ecad / eda universe to help only grow the tool.  We're in Munich today - heads down - building the product roadmap and we'll share more when the time's right.  :)
Well... heed my warning  >:D I've been down the road of taking over a software package from others before.

On the upside: It is good for you to be on this forum to have direct interaction with both hobby and heavy users from various CAD systems. It might be advisable to show in a signature that you are employed by Autodesk and are managing (?) Eagle development. It will make that your statements are read in the right context.

I think a lot of people are looking forward to what is about to come since Eage is not a small player in the low cost CAD solutions.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 10:16:09 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline PCB.Wiz

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2016, 12:40:31 pm »
Altium has been after me for $10k license - maybe I should be patient. I don't design a big volume of boards, but when I do - I am in a huge hurry and they get more complex every time.
Ouch, that's 10,000 good reasons to be patient...
If you use Eagle now, and  do not want to wait for the new product mix, I'd suggest trying KiCad.
Looks good from what I've tested thus far. GiHub based libraries, and a shipload of parts & footprints.
Open databases and good scripting support. There are a couple of Eagle->KiCad converters.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2016, 04:35:06 pm »
Eagle is, currently, almost unusable for any moderately complex design.

Please define "moderately complex". We design 6-layer boards with USB2-HS, ethernet, BGA, etc. using Eagle.

The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 

Offline electrolust

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2016, 07:28:47 pm »
This will also greatly worry Altium and Mentor, as Autodesk is no minnow, and has a lot of seats, with some overlap in users.

I don't think the asset purchase itself is worrisome -- Eagle is crap and I am surprised that it would be worth buying.  Easier to start from scratch if you have those kind of resources.

What should be worrisome though is the shot across the bow that Autodesk is entering the e-cad market.  Tight integration between e-cad and m-cad is a huge opportunity and the market is begging for it.   Altium and Mentor have no answer for this.

But even that said, this isn't a play for Altium and Mentor customers.  Eagle isn't in the same league as Altium.  This is a play against CircuitWorks (SolidWorks module).
 

Offline Wilksey

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2016, 08:06:53 pm »
Eagle is only perceived "unusable" or "crap" to those who don't care to take the time to learn how to use it or those who don't need / want to use it as they have access to a higher end tool.

For the most part it does it's job, and it does it well, it's never crashed on me before, unlike Altium...

Whilst I now use KiCAD, I still have an older licensed EAGLE version for occasional designs, it can produce quite complex designs, look at some of Olimex's boards, they are trying KiCAD also, more for the pure open source nature than EAGLE not doing what they want as the free version wouldn't allow their 4+ layer boards to be modified.
 

Offline electrolust

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2016, 08:22:01 pm »
Eagle is only perceived "unusable" or "crap" to those who don't care to take the time to learn how to use it or those who don't need / want to use it as they have access to a higher end tool.

I'm sure many who use it daily also consider it crap.

The UI is prehistoric.

The wildcards in the library are cool (technology and package variants) but the tight coupling to footprints is horribly awkward.  The library management itself is just awful.

Scriptability is cool but having to do so much via scripts is not.  BOM mgmt (via scripts) is a chore.  A huge problem with scripts is having to know so many things by rote instead of discovering it through the UI.

You can't even flip the PCB over to view from the other side!!  Are you kidding me?
 

Offline Aeternam

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2016, 08:38:40 pm »
Let's not let this thread degenerate into another Eagle bashing thread.

"The net proceeds of the disposal will have the effect of reducing Premier Farnell’s reported net debt position as at 31 January 2016 by approximately 8%"

If one had an idea where one could find Farnell's reported debt position one could infer the sale price. Any ideas? ;D
 
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Offline jpanhalt

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #71 on: June 30, 2016, 09:06:43 pm »
2015-2016 Annual Report is here: http://www.premierfarnell.com/sites/default/files/reports/PF-ARA-2016.pdf

You may find the section beginning on page 24 of the report (not pdf page number) interesting.
Quote
At 31 January 2016, net debt to adjusted EBITDA was
2.6x and headroom on bank borrowings was £216.5m,
under facilities in place until September 2019.

Of course, we don't know what all was included in the "net debt" reported in your source.

John
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #72 on: July 01, 2016, 03:01:08 am »
I don't think the asset purchase itself is worrisome -- Eagle is crap and I am surprised that it would be worth buying.  Easier to start from scratch if you have those kind of resources.

Starting from scratch would mean that AutoDesk would introduce Yet Another ECAD Package and try to build mind- and marketshare from scratch as well.

EAGLE has an installed base of thousands of users, most of whom want to see the program improved, and, I think, are willing to pay if those improvements turn up in the next release.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #73 on: July 01, 2016, 03:58:45 am »
Altium has been after me for $10k license - maybe I should be patient. I don't design a big volume of boards, but when I do - I am in a huge hurry and they get more complex every time.
IMHO a higher end package also saves a lot of time when it comes to the logistics part. This is often overlooked by the lower end offerings. The Orcad package I'm using produces a ready-to-go bill of materials (including manufacturers parts numbers, order codes, etc, etc) with one click. AFAIK this is impossible with Eagle and Kicad.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: Autodesk buys Eagle
« Reply #74 on: July 01, 2016, 05:13:00 am »
The Orcad package I'm using produces a ready-to-go bill of materials (including manufacturers parts numbers, order codes, etc, etc) with one click. AFAIK this is impossible with Eagle and Kicad.

I don't know about Kicad, but to produce ready-to-go bill of materials (including manufacturers parts numbers, order codes, etc, etc) with Eagle is a breeze.
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 


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