Autodesk buys Eagle

[rx8pilot]

Hi

If you let them sort it out ... it works fast and easy on their gear. If you try to do it, it takes two to four times as long for them to hog out. Guess which one costs you more in the end?

Bob

My thinking is that I would prefer to control the layout so that I can work out the assembly process that we do in-house. Test points, tabs that may have to be filed down, areas for supports, and other features.

Is it more common for designers to just let the PCB house do whatever they do? I feel like it would be slow to work through if I have a fairly long list of rules and regulations for them to follow. To be clear, all of my current designs are odd shapes and very close proximity to other parts. They need partial routing, mouse bites, and v-score on the same panel. The mouse bites need to be setup so that no material is outside of the outline.

Do you suppose I should ask the 'professionals' to do it based on my wish list?

[LabSpokane]

Why not just export a dxf, arrange the PCBs in cad and send the fab house your drawing of what you want? You're buying the whole panel, so they should be able to give you something close to your layout barring technical reasons.

Some stuff is better left to the vendor.  I go through this in a different process and they accommodate me nicely.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

If you let them sort it out ... it works fast and easy on their gear. If you try to do it, it takes two to four times as long for them to hog out. Guess which one costs you more in the end?

Bob

My thinking is that I would prefer to control the layout so that I can work out the assembly process that we do in-house. Test points, tabs that may have to be filed down, areas for supports, and other features.

Is it more common for designers to just let the PCB house do whatever they do? I feel like it would be slow to work through if I have a fairly long list of rules and regulations for them to follow. To be clear, all of my current designs are odd shapes and very close proximity to other parts. They need partial routing, mouse bites, and v-score on the same panel. The mouse bites need to be setup so that no material is outside of the outline.

Do you suppose I should ask the 'professionals' to do it based on my wish list?

Hi

We run a few hundred different panels a week. They all are our designs. The outer frame of the panel is defined by us. The locations of the boards in the panel are defined by us. The rest is done by the pcb house.

Bob

[rx8pilot]

Why not just export a dxf, arrange the PCBs in cad and send the fab house your drawing of what you want? You're buying the whole panel, so they should be able to give you something close to your layout barring technical reasons.

Some stuff is better left to the vendor.  I go through this in a different process and they accommodate me nicely.

Probably a good idea. I can quickly communicate the important stuff with a drawing in SolidWorks or whatever. The fab house can then optimize for their process/software/machines etc.

[PCB.Wiz]

Is it more common for designers to just let the PCB house do whatever they do? I feel like it would be slow to work through if I have a fairly long list of rules and regulations for them to follow. To be clear, all of my current designs are odd shapes and very close proximity to other parts. They need partial routing, mouse bites, and v-score on the same panel. The mouse bites need to be setup so that no material is outside of the outline.

Do you suppose I should ask the 'professionals' to do it based on my wish list?

There are many things come under the umbrella of 'panelize', so you need to define the details better.

Usually things like breakoffs/routing slots/mouse bites we certainly define in-house along with the single panel PCB design.
These are far too important to let someone else loose on.

For routing slots we use a tool path that is real size, so we can see the exact  radius end effects.

However, details like step and repeat, we will define a X,Y, & count, and V-groove we will either define a mark, or a tool path, but the actual panel copy, we leave to the FAB house.  Not so much is v grooved anymore...

[nctnico]

Hi

If you let them sort it out ... it works fast and easy on their gear. If you try to do it, it takes two to four times as long for them to hog out. Guess which one costs you more in the end?

Bob

My thinking is that I would prefer to control the layout so that I can work out the assembly process that we do in-house. Test points, tabs that may have to be filed down, areas for supports, and other features.

Is it more common for designers to just let the PCB house do whatever they do? I feel like it would be slow to work through if I have a fairly long list of rules and regulations for them to follow. To be clear, all of my current designs are odd shapes and very close proximity to other parts. They need partial routing, mouse bites, and v-score on the same panel. The mouse bites need to be setup so that no material is outside of the outline.

I'm doing odd shaped PCBs a lot and Eurocircuits adds mouse bites themselves which stay within the outline. I always use break-routing instead of V-scoring but I think they can combine internal routing with v-scoring. I just deliver them a design with the outline in a seperate Gerber with a FAB layer and let them sort out where to put mouse bites, v-scoring, etc. I'm quite sure they do all this based on generally accepted rules for PCB production so the panels are stable in their production process and during soldering later on. It could be worthwhile to talk to your local PCB manufacturer on how they are setup for this kind of processing and what rules they use. BTW Eurocircuits is a large player in Europe. They process a couple of hundred different designs every day 7 days per week.

[atmelino]

Will Autodesk continue to make a Linux version of Eagle? Linux is my only operating system, so I would have to change to a different program if the Linux version were discontinued.

[rx8pilot]

Will Autodesk continue to make a Linux version of Eagle? Linux is my only operating system, so I would have to change to a different program if the Linux version were discontinued.

I feel that the number of potential customers that are Linux only is very , very small (guessing). I use many OS's and would hate to only have one.

[amspire]

...
Matt should have just been honest and said it's going cloud and subscription based.

@Dave, it's not going subscription.  So there.    At this stage, that isn't anywhere on my roadmap. 

Autodesk used to be one of my favourite companies but after they way we were treated, I do not trust them.

They may not go to subscription, but if they follow the Maya pattern, they may give you the choice of either paying an expensive yearly support fee that gives you free upgrades or loosing any right to a future economical upgrade price for your product. Want to upgrade the software you bought last year? - Buy at full price again.

A studio I worked with had seven Maya licenses - cost us about A$30,000. We had done some Maya 2012 work, but then moved to more 2D animation so we didn't want to spend money on the unused Maya. Autodesk decided to change their Maya licensing so that unless we paid A$10,000 a year support (and that was the discounted price) for software we were not currently using, we would loose any right to upgrade our Maya 2012. We would have to buy Maya at current market prices.

Autodesk also have the habit of stopping support for old versions of products once a new version is released - which happens yearly. So if the latest Windows has a problem with an old version of an Autodesk product, then tough luck. They may tell you that you can use your current license for ever, but it may not run on the current version of Windows. If you find a bug in your licensed version of the software and it is not the latest version, Autodesk will almost certainly not fix the bug.

Autodesk have some incredible products, but they only respect you as a customer if you are paying them lots of money every year. If you are not, then they do not want to know you.

I suspect they will either turn Eagle into a fabulous product, or they will keep buying other PCB software companies until they totally dominate the market and then put all their efforts into just one of the PCB software brands. The other brands they purchase can fade away. Just ask Autodesk how the great Softimage 3D software (a Maya rival) they brought is not going.

Richard

[uncle_bob]

Hi

The "buy every pcb layout program in sight" approach has been tried by several others over the years. The next step of "migrate them all to one platform" never seems to work out. Instead they keep supporting a whole bunch of legacy this and legacy that on ever dwindling customer bases per software line.

Bob

[nctnico]

Will Autodesk continue to make a Linux version of Eagle? Linux is my only operating system, so I would have to change to a different program if the Linux version were discontinued.

I feel that the number of potential customers that are Linux only is very , very small (guessing). I use many OS's and would hate to only have one.

A while ago a poll on this forum showed that 30% of the visitors uses Linux as their primary OS and another 30% uses both Linux and Windows. For common people Linux may not be interesting but for engineers it is a very useful OS. There is a good reason companies like Xilinx make sure their environments also work on Linux!

[Karel]

Will Autodesk continue to make a Linux version of Eagle? Linux is my only operating system, so I would have to change to a different program if the Linux version were discontinued.

I feel that the number of potential customers that are Linux only is very , very small (guessing). I use many OS's and would hate to only have one.

A while ago a poll on this forum showed that 30% of the visitors uses Linux as their primary OS and another 30% uses both Linux and Windows. For common people Linux may not be interesting but for engineers it is a very useful OS. There is a good reason companies like Xilinx make sure their environments also work on Linux!

Apart from Xilinx, also Altera, Zuken, Cadence and, recently, also STMicroelectronics support Linux.
It's only the mid-segment stuff like altium that doesn't support Linux.

[rx8pilot]

I am not bashing Linux at all, I just think its very limiting to ONLY have Linux.

Sent from my horrible mobile....

[Karel]

I am not bashing Linux at all, I just think its very limiting to ONLY have Linux.

Sent from my horrible mobile....

Occasionally, we use windows in Virtualbox.
But software that we need to use on a daily base must run natively on Linux.
Software must serve us, not the other way around.

[atmelino]

Dave said in the video that someone from Autodesk (Matt?) would be on this forum, so I am hoping for an answer from Autodesk to the Linux version question. I have a lot of custom parts that I have designed in a library, in fact I am just starting another one, and it would be good to know as soon as possible before I have to redo all of them in KiCAD or whatever.
I did not mean to start an OS war by saying that I use only Linux-honestly. Here is my story: nine years ago, I wanted to pay my electricity bill and started up my Windows computer. The hard disk had crashed and I ended up having to install a new hard disk and reinstall Windows. I inserted the CD and reinstalled, but it would not let me login, saying that the hard disk had changed and that registration had failed (This was a Windows CD that I had bought from Bestbuy). I was getting worried that I cold lose electricity if I don't pay the bill, and I had a Linux Format magazine lying around with an Ubuntu 7.04 CD. I was able to install Ubuntu, get on the Internet and pay the bill within an hour. I staid with Ubuntu and over time, replaced all of my Windows programs with Linux programs. For me, it's about a guarantee that I can use my computer and that somebody is not going to disable my computer for whatever reason-that's all.
In any case, I am still hoping for an affirmative yes or no to the Linux version question of Eagle-thank you.

[Monkeh]

I suggest you read this very thread.

[PCB.Wiz]

...
In any case, I am still hoping for an affirmative yes or no to the Linux version question of Eagle-thank you.

There is Linux on the road map, and it was stated that Eagle is developed on Linux I believe.
Meanwhile, while you are waiting, check the Eagle import into KiCad and you can likely run both.
That covers  you against any "Corporate Shifts" at Autodesk - if licenses worry you, choose the path with no license.

[atmelino]

I suggest you read this very thread.

Good point-RTFT (Thread, not Manual)
For anyone who is as lazy as me and just wants the answer: There is a user named technolomaniac and he apparently is Matt who is the "guy now at the helm of the electronics tools at Autodesk" and he said that Eagle is developed on Linux. There. Sounds pretty future-proof.

As far as the Eagle discussion goes, there are assets that come from being around for a while and being established- name recognition, knowledge base, etc. You can find almost any part on the web by googling "Cadsoft Eagle <part number>". There are add-ons such as pcd2gcode to get G-code for isolation milling. Adafruit and Sparkfun promote Eagle and have their own Eagle library. You can learn how to make your own parts without getting a Ph.D. Ultimately, the primary goal of a PCB designer is to make a PCB, and that is the primary task of the tool. What bugs me about Eagle is that instead of right-clicking on a part and then choosing "move" or something, you have to choose "move" first and then click on the part. Unintuitive, but again, in the end, the boards work, and that's the main thing.

[technolomaniac]

...
In any case, I am still hoping for an affirmative yes or no to the Linux version question of Eagle-thank you.

There is Linux on the road map, and it was stated that Eagle is developed on Linux I believe.
Meanwhile, while you are waiting, check the Eagle import into KiCad and you can likely run both.
That covers  you against any "Corporate Shifts" at Autodesk - if licenses worry you, choose the path with no license.

Eagle runs on Linux.  It IS indeed developed on Linux.  We do the various OS's all natively.  So it's not an emulation environment or something like wine or the like. 

[Karel]

What bugs me about Eagle is that instead of right-clicking on a part and then choosing "move" or something, you have to choose "move" first and then click on the part. Unintuitive, but again, in the end, the boards work, and that's the main thing.

The reason that Eagle works like this, is because it works faster. You select the tool once, and than you can work with that tool
on multiple objects without the need to right-click every time. Once you get used to that, it's a real time saver.

[LabSpokane]

...
In any case, I am still hoping for an affirmative yes or no to the Linux version question of Eagle-thank you.

There is Linux on the road map, and it was stated that Eagle is developed on Linux I believe.
Meanwhile, while you are waiting, check the Eagle import into KiCad and you can likely run both.
That covers  you against any "Corporate Shifts" at Autodesk - if licenses worry you, choose the path with no license.

Eagle runs on Linux.  It IS indeed developed on Linux.  We do the various OS's all natively.  So it's not an emulation environment or something like wine or the like. 

How soon is the new release?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?

[Wilksey]

Are we looking at a new minor release (7.7) or going to V8?

[IanJ]

What bugs me about Eagle is that instead of right-clicking on a part and then choosing "move" or something, you have to choose "move" first and then click on the part. Unintuitive, but again, in the end, the boards work, and that's the main thing.

The reason that Eagle works like this, is because it works faster. You select the tool once, and than you can work with that tool
on multiple objects without the need to right-click every time. Once you get used to that, it's a real time saver.

Out of interest, AutoCad supports both methods.....the user can decide.
AutoCad also supports a command called MOCORO (MOve_COpy_ROtate) meaning you choose the command once and from there you can perform either of the commands repeatably without choosing again......net result speed!

There soooo much to learn from other cad programs and other factions of the cad world it frustrates me that some companies don't look into these things!......all for the sake of a bit of thought!

Ian.

[technolomaniac]

Dave said in the video that someone from Autodesk (Matt?) would be on this forum, so I am hoping for an answer from Autodesk to the Linux version question. I have a lot of custom parts that I have designed in a library, in fact I am just starting another one, and it would be good to know as soon as possible before I have to redo all of them in KiCAD or whatever.
I did not mean to start an OS war by saying that I use only Linux-honestly. Here is my story: nine years ago, I wanted to pay my electricity bill and started up my Windows computer. The hard disk had crashed and I ended up having to install a new hard disk and reinstall Windows. I inserted the CD and reinstalled, but it would not let me login, saying that the hard disk had changed and that registration had failed (This was a Windows CD that I had bought from Bestbuy). I was getting worried that I cold lose electricity if I don't pay the bill, and I had a Linux Format magazine lying around with an Ubuntu 7.04 CD. I was able to install Ubuntu, get on the Internet and pay the bill within an hour. I staid with Ubuntu and over time, replaced all of my Windows programs with Linux programs. For me, it's about a guarantee that I can use my computer and that somebody is not going to disable my computer for whatever reason-that's all.

In any case, I am still hoping for an affirmative yes or no to the Linux version question of Eagle-thank you.

Hi Atmelio --

Just a heads up (this is Matt here btw! Hi!) EAGLE runs on Linux.  We develop on Linux.  So EAGLE is native on linux.  You can download your favorite flavor from the site,

.

Best regards,

Matt

[ehughes]

You can download your favorite flavor from the site,

Dude,   WTF is up with that non-legit link??       It does not instill confidence that someone would be getting it from a primary source!