EEVblog® Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => PCB/EDA/CAD => Topic started by: peter-h on August 02, 2025, 11:00:54 am
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Someone did a design for me in Fusion. I have very little need for 3D design nowadays so don't want to pay the price of this thing.
He said he will let me have the design if I get Fusion free version and then I can view it.
After some hassle I managed to install it (various one time codes etc - why?? - presumably it runs only on one machine) and looking at the limitations it doesn't look like I could ever export anything to a CNC shop.
I see there is a thing called FreeCAD. Is there a route from Fusion to FreeCAD which would allow me to do little mods and then export for some chinese CNC shop?
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Fusion free is pretty limited. You don't have to spend £636 for Fusion for a year, you can buy a months worth of access for £78. Not ideal I'll admit.
I have a fusion licence, so if you just need the file exported I can do that for you.
Recently I looked for something that would import Fusion files, but I couldn't find anything that would do that. Or at least nothing that didn't involve a lot of effort. So I let my legacy Fusion (a bit cheaper) licence renew. Over a year I use it enough to justify it, just.
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FreeCAD has become a quite usable and capable 3D drawing program, but it certainly has it's own learning curve to say it mildly.
For the rest... There is little hope of modifying any 3D drawing in another program then with which it was made. The closest you can normally get is something like STEP export (or IGES, STL, etc). But such exports only give you the current shape. Modern 3D CAD programs work parametric, and they save the editing history in the drawing. That means that if you want to modify small things, you only redo the step that is responsible for your small thing. If you convert a drawing to another format, the whole editing history is lost.
For the rest. I was not sure in how far STEP files can be modified in FreeCAD, and because I was curious I did a test:
- Draw a rectangular block in FreeCAD.
- Export the block as a STEP file.
- Close the drawing without saving.
- Create an new empty drawing in FreeCAD.
- Import the STEP file.
- Edit the Step file by punching a hole though the block.
And it works, as you can see from the result below.
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The fusion "personal use" version is limited to mostly non commercial use but it has most of the 3D functionality. It's limited in ability to produce CAM output and manufacturing drawings, and it doesn't let you use the fusion 360 cloud stuff. It's pretty popular in the 3d printer community for this reason.
If you don't qualify for the personal use, then paying for a single month subscription is probably the best option. You can load the design, check it out, and export it to whatever format you want.
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If the full version owner sends me the design, can I export it in some format to Chinese CNC shop in the free version?
Otherwise I will need him for anything other than viewing it - is that correct?
I thought IGES was universal, but the free version does not AFAICT export in IGES.
In the 1990s I had a load of injection mouldings designed and have the IGES files.
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If the full version owner sends me the design, can I export it in some format to Chinese CNC shop in the free version?
Otherwise I will need him for anything other than viewing it - is that correct?
I thought IGES was universal, but the free version does not AFAICT export in IGES.
In the 1990s I had a load of injection mouldings designed and have the IGES files.
afaik the free version can still export step/stp files which should be what the cnc shop wants
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OK. I've realised that IGES is not editable as "objects" so if e.g. you have a hole 3mm dia you cannot change it to 3.5mm dia. To do that you need the design in the CAD native format, whatever that is.
So it is funny that the injection mould designer in the 1990s only gave us IGES. We have to go back to him for any real changes (he's long gone of course).
Can a CNC shop make a part from IGES? I've been reading on Fusion and the free version disables tool changes, to prevent it being used by CNC shops. Does this mean that the CNC shop, forced to use IGES, needs to process the IGES data with some program to determine which cutters to use for which parts? BTW I have a turret mill and a lathe (DRO but not CNC/servos) so I know how "engineering" works :)
If the above is right then disabling tool change in the free version would have no effect on NC shops using it.
I also note that IGES is probably OK for 3D printing, or does the free version have some way to drive a 3D printer directly? I don't have a 3D printer and really just need aluminium CNC machining. But I know people with printers...
What is the best format for going from the full version to the free version? Presumably some native format.
The free version, installed this morning, says I have 30 days left. What does this actually mean?
Thank you all for any input.
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disabled tool changes is only something the affect making an actual CAM program, so unless you are going to make the part yourself on your own machine it doesn't matter
the step file is just the part it doesn't have anything to do with setup and tool changes, the shop figures out how to make the part when they make the CAM
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OK so I need the .f3d file to do anything. Can the free version edit this? Sounds like it can for 30 days only but it can view it without a time limit.
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OK so I need the .f3d file to do anything. Can the free version edit this? Sounds like it can for 30 days only but it can view it without a time limit.
yes the free version can edit/design/make parts the limitations are mostly things like not having more a few projects open and only cloud storage and some machining operations missing making things slower (which doesn't matter if you are not making the parts)
I don't know where got view only from, and I suspect the 30 days is that you get 30 days trial of the full version when you install it first time, after than you'll need to get paid or free license
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I did a quick check at:
https://www.pcbway.com/rapid-prototyping/manufacture/?reffercode=BA
And the file formats they support apparently are:
File size < 200 MB (3D CAD: *.step, *.stp, *.x_t , *.iges, *.igs, *.sldprt )
I'm not exactly sure, but I think that STEP files are more common and prefered these days compared with IGES.
I am also not surprised at all that the "free" version of any sort of software made by autodesk is barely useful and does not support any file format that could break out of their own walled garden.
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but in these modern times, writing good software is not very high on the priority list of software companies anymroe. They use all sorts of enshitification to extract more money from customers while putting the least amount of effort into keeping their software "usable", and without too many customers walking away to their competitors.
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Pretty sure you can export step in the free versions, but I could be wrong.
One thing to keep in mind for any software package when you want to output a special file type. There's usually a 'Save As' menu but also an 'Export' menu and they are totally different.
Save is used to save all your work so you can continue later. Export is for generating output files that you might need for something but they don't contain all the data. (eg. step files are just surfaces, there's no texture data, sometimes no color data either)
The reason I'm mentioning this is because I've seen people conclude a software package doesnt support saving file type 'X' because it wasn't listed in the Save As options. :palm:
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I did a quick check at:
https://www.pcbway.com/rapid-prototyping/manufacture/?reffercode=BA
And the file formats they support apparently are:
File size < 200 MB (3D CAD: *.step, *.stp, *.x_t , *.iges, *.igs, *.sldprt )
I'm not exactly sure, but I think that STEP files are more common and prefered these days compared with IGES.
I am also not surprised at all that the "free" version of any sort of software made by autodesk is barely useful and does not support any file format that could break out of their own walled garden.
https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/blog/changes-to-fusion-360-for-personal-use/ (https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/blog/changes-to-fusion-360-for-personal-use/)
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but in these modern times, writing good software is not very high on the priority list of software companies anymroe. They use all sorts of enshitification to extract more money from customers while putting the least amount of effort into keeping their software "usable", and without too many customers walking away to their competitors.
yeh people paying for a product getting more than those who get it for free, what an odd concept /s
and if you are making stuff professionally <700$/yr for a tool like fusion is so cheap it might as well be free
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I don't normally do 3D design or manufacturing. Many years ago, paid some 30k to a design firm to design a load of injection mouldings and these are still running after 30 years! As I said, they gave us STEP or IGES files only. The injection firm has done mods to the tools but they just did it internally.
This project is a one-off. It is like a diecast box with a DB25 hole at one end. Someone offered to do the design for free but for some reason is taking ages (many months) to finish it, so I will try to retrieve it and if necessary find somebody on freelancer.com to finish it. Then I need a viewer, which the free Fusion will do for sure, and probably I should find a machine shop to make the CNC thing, hence I want to be sure the free version can do that. Otherwise the whole exercise is pointless because I don't have the time to learn Fusion from scratch.
I happily buy software I actually use but paying for the full version would be a waste of money in this situation.
According to google, free personal use version of Fusion 360 allows you to export designs in a variety of formats including .f3d, .3mf, .ipt, .iam, .dwg, .dxf, .fbx, .igs, .iges, .obj, .sat, .skp, .stp, and .stl. You can also export sketches and flat patterns as .dxf files. The specific formats available for export depend on the context, such as exporting from a sketch or flat pattern.
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What is not clear to me is whether Fusion 360 for personal use" is just the download trial version which has expired.
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Just ask for drawings for the CNC, and not 3D models.
Or have it exported to STEP files, that's the most universal 3D format.
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What is not clear to me is whether Fusion 360 for personal use" is just the download trial version which has expired.
The personal free version is described here: https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal (https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal)
I think you may need to create an account, not linked to a company e-mail address, then apply for the personal use licence. Or just buy a months access as and when you need it and use it as a business.
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Just ask for drawings for the CNC, and not 3D models.
Or have it exported to STEP files, that's the most universal 3D format.
I have asked for the .f3d file.
Or have it exported to STEP files, that's the most universal 3D format.
Is that object-editable? I don't think so. Like IGES, it seems to be the low level shape data, which CNC shops can then process with some other software to work out how to machine the part, using various tool sizes etc.
The personal free version is described here: https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal (https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal)
I think you may need to create an account, not linked to a company e-mail address, then apply for the personal use licence. Or just buy a months access as and when you need it and use it as a business.
OK. That downloads Fusion Client Downloader.exe 13429 bytes which downloads the exact same program every time, which is Fusion with a 30 day expiry. Under Help/About I see
2603.1.15 Active Plan (Trial)
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I suspect you will need to contact them to request a personal licence.
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OK I will see what this one does in 30 days' time :)
It's a weird program. Keeps asking me to enter auth codes sent by email. Just now it popped up a QR code for use with a phone app. All I did was to try to sign in, when I could not find any samples to open/edit.
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Just ask for drawings for the CNC, and not 3D models.
Or have it exported to STEP files, that's the most universal 3D format.
I have asked for the .f3d file.
Or have it exported to STEP files, that's the most universal 3D format.
Is that object-editable? I don't think so. Like IGES, it seems to be the low level shape data, which CNC shops can then process with some other software to work out how to machine the part, using various tool sizes etc.
The personal free version is described here: https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal (https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal)
I think you may need to create an account, not linked to a company e-mail address, then apply for the personal use licence. Or just buy a months access as and when you need it and use it as a business.
OK. That downloads Fusion Client Downloader.exe 13429 bytes which downloads the exact same program every time, which is Fusion with a 30 day expiry. Under Help/About I see
2603.1.15 Active Plan (Trial)
Every machine shop always will go sometimes in this order:
The data file isn't good
But if you send it in the good format, we cannot use it anyway
Hurr durr, the engineer doesn't know what he is doing.
This feature cannot be machined, we don't have a 12 axis CNC. What, just use a different machine? That sounds like work.
It's going to be 1570 EUR, plus setup costs.
I'm convinced that paperclips and nails are impossible to make after talking to these people. They are somehow leftovers from an alien civilization.
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Just ask for drawings for the CNC, and not 3D models.
Or have it exported to STEP files, that's the most universal 3D format.
I have asked for the .f3d file.
Or have it exported to STEP files, that's the most universal 3D format.
Is that object-editable? I don't think so. Like IGES, it seems to be the low level shape data, which CNC shops can then process with some other software to work out how to machine the part, using various tool sizes etc.
The personal free version is described here: https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal (https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal)
I think you may need to create an account, not linked to a company e-mail address, then apply for the personal use licence. Or just buy a months access as and when you need it and use it as a business.
OK. That downloads Fusion Client Downloader.exe 13429 bytes which downloads the exact same program every time, which is Fusion with a 30 day expiry. Under Help/About I see
2603.1.15 Active Plan (Trial)
Every machine shop always will go sometimes in this order:
The data file isn't good
But if you send it in the good format, we cannot use it anyway
Hurr durr, the engineer doesn't know what he is doing.
This feature cannot be machined, we don't have a 12 axis CNC. What, just use a different machine? That sounds like work.
It's going to be 1570 EUR, plus setup costs.
I'm convinced that paperclips and nails are impossible to make after talking to these people. They are somehow leftovers from an alien civilization.
tried some of the Chinese online services where you just upload a step file, choose material, and get an instant quote?
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:) :)
Can anyone recommend a good Chinese CNC shop for 3 axis work? By 3 axis I mean a box with holes in the side of it. It has no undercuts (i.e. it could be injection moulded, without a side action tool, if one added draft) except it does have a recessed DB25 connector in the side.
Paperclips and nails are made by very clever machines. There are videos out there. Same with springs of all kinds of weird shapes.
I've just read somewhere that Fusion keeps your design on their server, not on your PC. Is that really true??
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I've just read somewhere that Fusion keeps your design on their server, not on your PC. Is that really true??
Kind of. Files are kept in your Autodesk account, but you can download to a local cache and work off-line too. You can export the Fusion file as a local backup, or if you don't continue the sub and the cloud files get deleted (I presume that do, eventually).
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I think the "cloud" feature stops when the 30 days expire.
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I think the "cloud" feature stops when the 30 days expire.
afaiu (I have paid version) it still works the same (or might only be cloud storage) but there's a limit to how many designs you can have active at a time
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Seems to be 10 max open projects, and it isn't an issue.
Funny thing is their emails come From: <[email protected]> but when I reply to it I get
(reason: 550 5.4.1 Recipient address rejected: Access denied. :)
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Seems to be 10 max open projects, and it isn't an issue.
yeh it seems to me that most of the limitations in the free version isn't really that limiting, it just makes things a bit more cumbersome and some thing slower so that people who use it to make money won't abuse it
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I need to find out how to work offline, obviously...
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tried some of the Chinese online services where you just upload a step file, choose material, and get an instant quote?
Sure, but I almost never just need a STEP file made into a part.
I need a part, which has reference distances, tolerances. Threaded holes that supposed to interface with other parts.
And surface finish. Often times the parts need to form an enclosure that's IP rated.
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Am I right that for the above you need
- IGES or similar for the overall shape
- DXF or DWG for the specs e.g. tolerances, thread specs etc
I guess IGES or STEP alone is OK for shapes like most injection mouldings are.
But I've seen 3D printed stuff containing a thread like M3. It wasn't really usable (well not in 3D printed plastic!) but the thread was there. Was that just a hi res STEP/IGES file?
Fusion can directly drive a 3D printer so maybe it "just does it"?
I have just finally received the .f3d file...
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In Fusions thread creation tool, you can specify if you want a fully modeled thread, which can then be 3D printed.
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Fusion is very complex. I've successfully managed to view the product from various angles, choose which parts to show/hide, export STEP, upload to PCBWAY, and now waiting for them to review it. 2 3D printed samples for $55. Not bad!
It says "under review" so presumably some human there needs to look at it.
$100 each for aluminium, CNC. Rather more impressive pricing for titanium ;)
For metal versions I want threads tapped and for that I need to generate drawing(s) from Fusion...
(https://peter-ftp.co.uk/screenshots/202508040818890419.jpg)
I've just realised they well might 3D print it with the lid in place so I can't get inside, so I messaged them about it :) :)
you can specify if you want a fully modeled thread, which can then be 3D printed.
I think that is if I have my own 3D printer. AFAICT if I export STEP, to a printing/CNC firm, they can't do threads unless they get a drawing.
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I think that is if I have my own 3D printer. AFAICT if I export STEP, to a printing/CNC firm, they can't do threads unless they get a drawing.
If you want to send a file to be 3D-printed, just directly export the surface geometry with modeled threads as an STL. You can easily do that in Fusion by right-clicking on the body you want to export and selecting "Save as mesh".
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I tried to get a CNC price but if I want tapped holes they want a drawing e.g. DXF or DWG. But to get either of these you need "cloud translation". AIUI this stops working on the free/trial version after 30 days.
This probably explains why it is often said the free Fusion is popular with the 3D printing community. They don't need drawings.
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You can still print / use print to PDF to export the 2D drawings. Btw, Solidworks is also available very cheap for private use.
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I tried to get a CNC price but if I want tapped holes they want a drawing e.g. DXF or DWG. But to get either of these you need "cloud translation". AIUI this stops working on the free/trial version after 30 days.
afaiu you can still make DXF you just need to make a sketch first
This probably explains why it is often said the free Fusion is popular with the 3D printing community. They don't need drawings.
it is also really convenient for making cam if you have a CNC machine
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I would like to thank all you people for all your help!
I've placed a couple of orders with PCBWAY.
I will still need to find somebody to do actual edits to the part but probably there are loads on freelancer.com. Not looking for a freebie :)
Interestingly DWG and DXF looked very similar (I used an online viewer; curiously Fusion won't view these files) and don't have dimensions as such. I guess producing a dimensioned drawing is a lot more "AI" :)
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Fusion gets 10/10 for opaqueness. Just spent a couple of hours watching tutorials etc trying to work out how to change the diameter of a hole. Yes, a hole!
(https://peter-ftp.co.uk/screenshots/20250805490151516.jpg)
I can add a hole somewhere, add fillets, etc but cannot edit an existing hole. I wonder if there is a locked mode, or perhaps somebody created a hole as a "negative" so there isn't actually a hole there?
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The normal process to edit a hole is right click on the hole and -> edit profile sketch. If that hole was created by a pattern feature or something else you might have to find its origin, and edit that one.
Its also likely the file was imported as STEP and it does not have any feature data embedded in it. Look at the bottom timeline and you'll see timeline history, if there is nothing then you can't edit feature data that doesn't exist.
In that case you start a new sketch on top of the hole and draw a larger hole to cut it bigger.
[attachimg=1]
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Thank you.
I tried it but cannot find an editable hole :) Clearly it is more subtle... but this is an extremely complex program, with loads of "selection" modes.
The drawing was definitely done in Fusion. I have the .f3d file. If you import IGES then AIUI you get no "objects" that can be edited. No doubt that's why designers only give IGES to their customers, forcing them to go back to the designer for any mods ;)
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If you need the .f3d editing, and it's a simple change, happy to take a look. Even if it's to look for where the editable element is so you can edit it yourself. If you're not used to Fusion, it can take a while to get your head around.
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The drawing was definitely done in Fusion. I have the .f3d file. If you import IGES then AIUI you get no "objects" that can be edited. No doubt that's why designers only give IGES to their customers, forcing them to go back to the designer for any mods ;)
Just because you have a f3d file does not mean it was made in fusion, or contains any feature data.
You can import a step file and then save it as .f3d.
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OK; sure. In this case I know who did it.
I still cannot edit the hole :) I can measure its diameter using the Measure feature. I can also add new holes elsewhere. But jc101 above can edit the hole OK.
It's a weird program...
Many years ago I used AutoCAD and that one could work out without too much trouble.
Currently I am waiting for some 3D printed boxes to come back from PCBWAY and then I will see what needs to be done.
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You can just close the hole using direct modeling tools. Or create a sketch on the surface with a circle covering the hole and then extrude.
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Fusion's free version is too limited - try Onshape's edu plan (register with school email). FreeCAD's STEP import works decently, but you'll need to export from Fusion as IGES first.
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- try Onshape's edu plan (register with school email).
no need to fiddle an education email,onshape offers a perfectly usable free version
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- try Onshape's edu plan (register with school email).
no need to fiddle an education email,onshape offers a perfectly usable free version
what does it do that the free fusion doesn't?
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If I was starting again myself I would obviously not use Fusion, or anything from Autodesk.
But in this case I have a design done by someone and don't want to do it again, despite a few people saying to me they could re-create it in an hour. Well, they sure could but this design had a fair bit of detail work put into it, fitting various items into it properly, etc.
In a couple of weeks I will find out what happens when my 30 day trial ends ;) I reckon I will end up with what Autodesk calls the Personal Version. I say this because the downloader stub for all these versions is exactly the same executable, byte for byte. I might lose the "cloud" access which is needed for e.g. DWG or DXF export... but probably not.
There is no object-level portability between any of the 3D programs AFAICT. Only via STEP or IGES which is much less usable - no wonder product designers send you only these formats even after you paid their hefty fees ;) ;) ;)
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I have 12 days to go before the 30 days is up and then I will find out how much of it is still working :) I will update this thread.
In the meantime I am getting loads of emails from
Autodesk Fusion <[email protected]>
but any replies to it bounce back :)
Other emails from them don't bounce but nobody replies.
What a stupid company.
I got the 3D prints back from PCBWAY. Very impressive!
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I recommend you make some DXF / STEP file exports before your month of probation has expired.
That makes it easier if you ever have to re-create your work.
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30 days is up and I get
(https://peter-ftp.co.uk/screenshots/20250901190160422.jpg)
So as I suspected, the Trial becomes what they call the Personal Version.
And this idiocy
(https://peter-ftp.co.uk/screenshots/20250901180170622.jpg)
so one must now disable auto updates, in case one of their updates produced a dud application! Yes that has happened; e.g. the UK tax authority did an update recently which required win10 but it didn't check the current OS so win7 users got shafted. There seem to be a lot of people who want to disable auto updates on this app (e.g. in a classroom setting you don't want all the machines trashed or even changed) so there is a lot of stuff online on how to do this. One recommendation gives a registry setting but that does not exist on my machine. I found a video listing some hosts file entries, which is another old and well tried way to do this, so I added these to the hosts file
127.0.0.1 a360-statusdashboard.s3.amazonaws.com
127.0.0.1 adsk-00.dn.apigee.net
127.0.0.1 compute.api.autodesk.com
127.0.0.1 dl.appstreaming.autodesk.com
127.0.0.1 fns-p-ue1-dn.cosv2-p-ue1-dn.autodesk.com
127.0.0.1 notifications.prd.fusionapi.autodesk.com
127.0.0.1 accounts.autodesk.com
Then they point you this comparison
https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal (https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal)
but as I said previously both options give you the same downloader stub ;)
OK so some stuff is now disabled. You cannot export the greyed-out files
(https://peter-ftp.co.uk/screenshots/20250901360181922.jpg)
but all the others (including those which are off the screenshot) remain available.
So you can do STEP but not IGES.
The DWG and DXF files used "cloud" functionality, so maybe that is gone. I am not sure when exactly these files are needed. For CNC machining, STEP seems to be enough.
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just for curiosity:
search for occurrences of byte(s) pattern:
41 49 3b c9 74 4f 4c 8dand replace 74 with EB
does it changes something?
sorry, but I can't say more
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Oh, wow, I used to do a lot of replacing 74 with EB in the early 2000s. This replaces conditional jump with unconditional one. It is surprising that big products don't validate their binary and that still works.
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That byte sequence is not found in either of the obvious .exe files, so if it still exists it must be elsewhere :)
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who said to search in the .exe file? i certainly not!
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I need to find a win32 "grep" which works on binary files with wildcards, probably recursively...
EDIT: Yara did it.
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Agent Ransack?
https://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack/ (https://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack/)
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No need at all...
He was already given everything he needed (and even much more): now it is only up to him!
@PlainName: I didn't know Agent Ransack.... Thanks for the suggestion!
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I did it with Yara. Took a while to get it working and then to search 330k files under c:\users which is where Fusion installs, not in the usual Program Files etc place.
It seems to work... only on the 30-day-expired version, as one might expect. One must also block updates by using the hosts file stuff above, otherwise you have to do it again.
I use Agent Ransack a lot for purchase order management at work. Didn't know it could do binaries as well.
Be aware that with Fusion you never get any "installer". You just get a little stub which downloads and installs the whole huge complicated program, bits of which live in different places on your PC, some of it in the AppData directory (which is normally hidden and the files in which are mostly not accessible to programs unless they run as admin). Each file is downloaded and written to the hard disk, on the fly.
If you want to install multiple free versions on different PCs (100% legitimate) then you have to use a different email address to get each one. I think also a different browser; not sure though.
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I think Autodesk have changed their policy on expiry. Mine now says
(https://peter-ftp.co.uk/screenshots/20251023184918719.jpg)
So it becomes completely useless.
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Thats without logging in or internet access I guess?
It still works for me but I did log in: Autodesk fusion personal (not for commercial use).
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OK I have two installs, and one works as you describe, but the other (on a laptop) became read-only.
Maybe that is what they do. You probably need to create different Autodesk accounts...
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FWIW, the read-only installation is logged-in.
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If you don't want to pay the company for their warez why not just move on to something you can afford! I personally would never pay for any SAAS; I don't believe in the concept as software is not a service!! But instead of griping about what you get from Autodesk how about just move to Freecad or some other alternative. While I do own an older perpetual version of Solidworks, I own Alibre Design as well and it is quite capable!!
By even using a cracked version of their software you legitimize their business model, and pricing!
just for curiosity:
search for occurrences of byte(s) pattern:
41 49 3b c9 74 4f 4c 8dand replace 74 with EB
does it changes something?
sorry, but I can't say more
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Even with that "modification" and the hosts file mods, it goes read-only, on one machine of the two.
When I get around to it, I will test it by another download and another email address.
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the patch MUST be applied after EVERY software update (about every 15÷20 days)
Otherwise, if you reach the "10 modifable file limit" you have to set some of them to "readonly" status.
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I avoided software updates for this reason.
It is an interesting point whether > 10 files have been opened on that machine (a laptop, not used much for this).
I will try this - many thanks.
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The above listed byte sequence no longer appears in the file. They are obviously reading EEVBLOG ;)
In any case, I think one was supposed to first wait for the 30 days to expire, and only then apply the patch. If you apply the patch within the 30 days, or do the hosts file mod, Fusion will go read-only when the 30 days is up.
It seems likely that Fusion needs internet access during the 30 day trial period, after which it can run offline. How long for, no idea, but I have "few months" as one data point.
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Just found something else.
The .f3d file is tied to the program version, so if you are for whatever reason not doing constant program updates, you cannot exchange .f3d files with somebody who does updates. Loads of people discovered this to their cost, and there is no solution.
I wonder what the Fusion exchange format is supposed to be? AFAICT there isn't one. You can export to STEP (even with the trial version, even if expired) and works for getting stuff printed or CNCd, but you cannot edit objects. Hmmm looks like in STEP you can edit stuff like hole diameters.
It seems clear that if you work on your own, then some old cracked version is fine, but if you want to exchange the designs, Autodesk have rigged it so that everybody has to be renting, paying the rent, continuously :)
Strange, given that the AutoCAD DWG or DXF format did allow data exchange, IIRC. But then very old AutoCAD did not support objects; it was just a flat drawing.
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And very shortly Autodesk will shaft everybody not on win11 who wants f3d file exchange - absolute arrogant morons
(https://peter-ftp.co.uk/screenshots/202511035119385919.jpg)
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Just an update:
I set up a remote PC (a cheap ex-corporate Lenovo Mini PC, quad core i5, 16GB, £130 from Ebay) with win11 on it, accessed over RDP, and put Fusion on it, so I can open f3d files from somebody who has done the win11 update.
Fusion needs a new email address and a new mobile number for every new installation :) The former is trivial but the latter is a hassle because you need yet another SIM card, and you never know when they will send a code to it. I had several codes just to get the thing going. We hear stories of whole classrooms using the trial version and I wonder how they managed to do that, with so many SIM cards needed ;)
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Apparently you can get eSIM cards (for phones that don't do eSIM) which can have multiple virtual SIMs. Of course, you can only have one number active at a time, but it saves carry a box of SIMs and having to open the phone to change them.
For instance:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/EIOTCLUB-eSIM-Unlimited-card-Physical/dp/B0DJ8MQN3V (https://www.amazon.co.uk/EIOTCLUB-eSIM-Unlimited-card-Physical/dp/B0DJ8MQN3V)
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Just an update:
I set up a remote PC (a cheap ex-corporate Lenovo Mini PC, quad core i5, 16GB, £130 from Ebay) with win11 on it, accessed over RDP, and put Fusion on it, so I can open f3d files from somebody who has done the win11 update.
Not sure whether that was necessary. When Autodesk announced that "Fusion support on Windows 10 will end", they meant that they no longer validate new releases on Windows 10 and no longer provide technical support. (Which users of the free version don't get anyway.)
In the announcement below Autodesk explicitly state that Fusion will continue to function on Win10. Unless Microsoft decides to introduce some nonsense in Win11 that forces application developers to break backwards compatibility, I would expect most applications to happily run under Win10 for a long time to come.
https://www.autodesk.com/support/technical/article/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Fusion-Announcing-End-of-Support-for-Windows-10.html (https://www.autodesk.com/support/technical/article/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Fusion-Announcing-End-of-Support-for-Windows-10.html)
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Not sure whether that was necessary. When Autodesk announced that "Fusion support on Windows 10 will end", they meant that they no longer validate new releases on Windows 10 and no longer provide technical support. (Which users of the free version don't get anyway.)
See posts further back.
Yes, Fusion "should" (this is pure speculation, given how aggressive Autodesk is with the whole setup) continue running under win10 (whether win10 gets updates or not) but since the .f3d format is tied to the program version, and since somebody on win11 will be running a later (later updated) version of Fusion than somebody on win10, the win10 user will not be able to open an .f3d file from the win11 user. I have verified this personally. The only file exchange format which can be used after that point is STEP and a few others (not sure if Fusion can open the others; it can open STEP and you can do limited editing).
If you are a lone user, never needing file exchange (apart from sending STEP files to the likes of PCBWAY) then the above will probably not affect you, at least for a while.
I would expect most applications to happily run under Win10 for a long time to come.
Sure; so would I, but an app software dev is free to stop it running on OS version X. For example UK HMRC have just stopped their tax calculation software running on pre-win10 versions, and this is not for any obvious reason (the stuff is written in python by the looks of it).
That Autodesk statement does not actually say your installed copy of Fusion will run on win10 for ever. It well might not, since Fusion is an "online" app which needs to call back to the "church" periodically, for license checking etc. If they pull their license servers, Fusion will become useless. This is why I never use such software but I had to go to Fusion because my son has got it and does occassional designs for me.
Fusion is not like the debacle with Adobe CS3 where Adobe pulled their validation servers, so while the installed copy would run for ever (it never went online) provided that you never changed your PC, and when people did change their PC and wanted to transfer CS3 to the new PC, and found they could not, and kicked up a huge (corporate) stink on this $500 program, Adobe were forced to give away free CS2 installation keys :) Fusion is worse because it is basically an online program. Not continuously online but AFAICT it needs to check something like once a month. This kind of stuff stinks but if you want Fusion you are stuck with it. Even "better" is stuff which takes a snapshot e.g. keylib32.dll and shafts you a few years down the road when you upgrade the machine.
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Another update:
Fusion goes read-only when it expires. The biggest issue for me is that all export options are blocked.
But just one of my installs is still working: on a win10 machine. The drawback of that one is that if somebody sends me an .f3d design done on a win11 Fusion install and that install has had an update, I cannot open that update because Fusion blocks opening any .f3d file produced on a Fusion which has seen an update later than yours, and win10 Fusion updates stopped in October 2025.
I don't know if this read-only thing is a new policy (to block what I thought they call "student edition") or just some problem.
The win10 install happens used to have the hosts file edited with this
127.0.0.1 a360-statusdashboard.s3.amazonaws.com
127.0.0.1 adsk-00.dn.apigee.net
127.0.0.1 compute.api.autodesk.com
127.0.0.1 dl.appstreaming.autodesk.com
127.0.0.1 fns-p-ue1-dn.cosv2-p-ue1-dn.autodesk.com
127.0.0.1 notifications.prd.fusionapi.autodesk.com
127.0.0.1 accounts.autodesk.com
but not any more, and I am not running a patched application anymore either.
The other odd thing is that Fusion has just offered and done an update, despite saying these stopped in October. It just says
(https://peter-ftp.co.uk/screenshots/20251217150192914.jpg)
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It might stop with the Jan 2026 release, as that is what the popup says requires windows 11.
What does end of support mean for Windows 10 and Fusion?
Fusion will continue to work on Windows 10 after the 14th - however, Autodesk will no longer consider Windows 10 for validation, bug fixing, and product support of future releases. Application compatibility and support will not be guaranteed for this platform for releases after this date.
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Application compatibility and support will not be guaranteed for this platform for releases after this date.
One would hope that they stop updates, rather than update the executable which then stops working and leaves you in the s**t ;)
UK HMRC (the tax collector) did the latter :) We had to set up a new PC and move over the undocumented database files.
I found something funny. When setting up a new one (to remove the "read only" installation) I uninstalled it, deleted the registry entries, and when I came to download a new one it asks for SMS number to send a code to. I had used up my old numbers (it says "number in use") so I went to various disposable SMS number websites, and for nearly all those numbers it said "number already in use" :) :) So clearly a load of people are playing the same game. And for numbers where it didn't say that, the SMS never arrived anyway. But it turned out that if you leave it for a long time, it abandons the SMS method and offers you an email instead. So you knock up a new gmail address...
I will see what this new one does. After 30 days it ought to remain usable for exporting to STEP.
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One would hope that they stop updates, rather than update the executable which then stops working and leaves you in the s**t
That's exactly what Rockstar did. Didn't care that you'd paid for the product and that they then broke it intentionally through an update, just tough shit.
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Well I have another data point...
I will see what this new one does. After 30 days it ought to remain usable for exporting to STEP.
My last install of Fusion, win11, has gone read-only after the 30 days. All export options disabled. £78/month is the only available way forward.
Amazingly, an older win10 installation still runs, months after the 30 days' expiry point. This will however become useless for f3d import once the f3d files (from someone running a win11 installation) get updated past the point where this win10 one stops getting updates. Currently it still gets updates - just got one.
Neither of these installs has anything in the hosts file relating to autodesk, so it is a mystery why the win11 installs go read-only after 30 days.
This Autodesk policy is really crap since - from another project I've been involved in - many win10 machines cannot be upgraded to win11 unless you do certain hacks (Rufus etc). One would hope that Autodesk get a lot of sh*it from win10 users who have to chuck away their computer to go to win11, and continue updating win10 installs...
For me this is just a hobby, making some parts from designs done by someone else. I would need to go on a Fusion course to do anything with it myself. So I just do STEP export. These stories of businesses using multiple free copies of Fusion are a mystery. How do they do it?
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My last install of Fusion, win11, has gone read-only after the 30 days. All export options disabled. £78/month is the only available way forward.
Amazingly, an older win10 installation still runs, months after the 30 days' expiry point. This will however become useless for f3d import once the f3d files (from someone running a win11 installation) get updated past the point where this win10 one stops getting updates. Currently it still gets updates - just got one.
I don't think this difference in behavior has anything to do with Windows 10 vs. 11. I have happily used my free "personal use" copy of Fusion on a Win 11 computer for most of last year, and recently did a fresh install on a new Win 11 machine without issues.
Have you properly registered your Windows 11 installation of Fusion as a "free for personal use" copy? That will give you 30 days of full functionality as an appetizer, then fall back to the somewhat reduced feature set of the personal version. But if you have installed via the "Start free trial" path instead, it will drop back to "please insert coin" after 30 days.
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I could not work out how to do that. It looks like after the 30 days you are supposed to get the limited version, and I never saw any options on that.
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I could not work out how to do that. It looks like after the 30 days you are supposed to get the limited version, and I never saw any options on that.
Did you try here? https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal (https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal)
It should start as a full version, but will automatically drop back to the "personal" functionality after 30 days if I remember correctly.
Edit: Be sure to click "Get Autodesk Fusion for personal use" -- not the "Start a free trial" button in the lower right.
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OK I will try that. Presumably I need to uninstall, and clean up the registry key(s). And use the same email address I used. I may be running out of mobile numbers but I think it eventually gives up on that.
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OK I will try that. Presumably I need to uninstall, and clean up the registry key(s). And use the same email address I used. I may be running out of mobile numbers but I think it eventually gives up on that.
Why would you need a new mobile number? I could link the second installation on my new computer to the same account as the prior one. And the old one still works as well, so multiple installations are allowed. I just can't run both at the same time, which seems reasonable. Actually I don't recall ever giving them a mobile number; there is none in my Autodesk account's "personal information" details.
If Fusion has remembered your Win 11 computer as "has run the 30-day commercial trial version", some cleanup might indeed be required -- can't say because I have not been in that situation. But I would first try to just log into your Autodesk account (in the browser) and see whether you can find an option to (re-)apply for a personal use license.
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ebastler - thank you! That worked.
I uninstalled and cleaned up the registry (found only one obvious key) and downloaded another installer using the previous email+pwd. It didn't ask for a mobile # for SMS verification this time.
So far so good. No 30 day stuff mentioned - this looks like the 'personal use' version.
EDIT: it did not start as a full version. It is the limited version right away, which is fine since it does STEP export. And I then repeated this procedure on a win10 machine, with the same result, another apparently non-expiring personal edition, and Autodesk have not yet blocked updates on win10...
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EDIT: it did not start as a full version. It is the limited version right away, which is fine since it does STEP export. And I then repeated this procedure on a win10 machine, with the same result, another apparently non-expiring personal edition, and Autodesk have not yet blocked updates on win10...
Then Autodesk probably figured in the 30-day trial period you had already completed. Makes sense that one can't restart another 30 days of unlimited functionality again and again with the same account. Anyway, I'm glad you have the functionality you need now -- fingers crossed that it will remain available long-term! (I am pretty confident it will. ;))
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The mystery is why these installs became read-only after the 30 day period. All but one, and that one says "personal edition".
From the autodesk forum: The Read Only state is intended to limit the number of files in use concurrently for Free licenses to a quantity that is reasonable for hobbyists and casual use, but inconvenient for an enterprise concerned with mission-critical productivity.
I have certainly not exceeded 10 files. I view only one f3d design at any one time.
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I have certainly not exceeded 10 files. I view only one f3d design at any one time.
It is not the number of OPENED files, but the number of CREATED files (in your cloud storage area): you can have a maximum of 10 modifiable files, the other must be marked as READ-ONLY
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I don't use the cloud storage.
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It's the same for local storage.
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Right, ok, but the only files which I opened, and only one at a time, were f3d files I got from somebody else.
I doubt there were 10 of them, but if there were, how does one deal with this?
Also the program opened saying R/O before I opened any file.
If you had multiple local files open, would they show up as tabs at the top of the program? If so then I never have more than one open.
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I doubt there were 10 of them, but if there were, how does one deal with this?
I can only describe this for the cloud storage, which I use as my main workspace. With reference to the attached screenshot:
Open the Data Panel in Fusion, via the icon with 3x3 squares, visible in the upper right of the screenshot. Each file entry will have a small dropdown menu which indicates whether it is read-only (grey) or editable (blue). You can only have a maximum of 10 files in "editable" state. But you can toggle any file status back and forth between editable and read-only as often as you like. The capacity (how many files are currently set to "editable") is indicated in the status bar on top, in my case 7 out of the possible 10.
Autodesk's goal is to make things inconvenient/impractical for professional users who work on many files in parallel. But it does not limit in any way what a single, occasional user can do with the personal Fusion version -- just adds a little bit of inconvenience in occasionally requiring you to toggle the file status.
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Also the program opened saying R/O before I opened any file.
Where does it say that? It is unclear to me how "the program" can be read-only, without reference to any file?
I am wondering whether the limitations you encounter may be due to the way you work with the files. When you open a file from your computer (rather than from the cloud storage), it may always be read-only in the personal version? I exclusively use the cloud storage as my active workspace, and export to the local disk just for backup purposes.
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After following ebastler's URL etc I no longer get the R/O problem.
This is what I see before opening any file
(https://peter-ftp.co.uk/screenshots/2026-01-27_1725240009.jpg)
and this is what I see after loading one f3d file from the computer and clicking on the 3x3 icon
(https://peter-ftp.co.uk/screenshots/2026-01-27_1728110010.jpg)
It all looks as I would expect.
Where does it say that? It is unclear to me how "the program" can be read-only, without reference to any file?
It doesn't say it anymore :) But yes the program started up in R/O mode. So just a file viewer.
I think, contrary to my previous assumptions (which nobody argued with), there is more than one download URL for the "free" version of Fusion. And I was using a URL which produced the 30 day fully functional one, which then ended up as R/O and with all Save/Export options disabled. With the version I now have running, I never had a fully functional version (I judge that from the Export options, which are mostly grayed out, but STEP is available).
That said, I have not checked Ebastler's procedure with a completely new machine, email address and (yes you need that too, although it may give up eventually) mobile number :) I am out of machines and definitely out of mobile numbers ;)
Autodesk have set up a horrible "predatory" system, whereby they will make the program useless for anybody who ever has to open somebody else's f3d file, unless the user is on the same program version, which in the long run means the same OS version. They hacked it so that the f3d file cannot be opened by any older program version even if nothing in the f3d format has been changed. The smart way to do this would be to have a version # for the f3d file itself. Presumably this was done to control bootlegging, because it fairly quickly wipes out any patching of the executable, unless you use it purely for your own projects, in which case you never need to update it.
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Autodesk have set up a horrible "predatory" system, whereby they will make the program useless for anybody who ever has to open somebody else's f3d file, unless the user is on the same program version, which in the long run means the same OS version. They hacked it so that the f3d file cannot be opened by any older program version even if nothing in the f3d format has been changed. The smart way to do this would be to have a version # for the f3d file itself. Presumably this was done to control bootlegging, because it fairly quickly wipes out any patching of the executable, unless you use it purely for your own projects, in which case you never need to update it.
It is fairly common today for software vendors to strongly encourage or even force users to keep their software updated to the current version. There are legitimate reasons for this: It will make product support easier (user support, ensuring compatibility with OS versions, etc.). And it might well be the case that files generated by the new version include features/functionality which the old software version just can't handle; you don't know that in the case of Fusion, right?
But it is certainly good to remember that we are essentially at Autodesk's mercy when we use the free personal license. While there is a local software installation and file cache, Fusion will only run for 30 days without checking in with Autodesk, I believe. They could certainly decide to pull the plug on the free version, or limit it further and introduce a billable hobbyist version.
Given the stunt Autodesk have pulled with Eagle after acquiring it, that is certainly a real possibility. I am painfully aware of it, but use Fusion anyway for my hobby stuff, since I prefer its UI over FreeCad (a lot).
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I guess if your only option is a) to rent and b) to pay the full rental, then you don't care about these policies.
The big exception to the above is the win10/win11 issue, where vast numbers of people are forced to chuck away their perfectly good PCs and laptops and buy "win11 compatible" ones. And in this case you have to do that to get file compatibility with others. I know one can install win11 with a hack but then you don't get any win11 updates afterwards.
It is the ability to use Fusion as a free version that gets up one's nose that Autodesk have this level of control :)
FWIW, I bet Autodesk get a lot of stick over the win10/win11 angle, because they have not stopped updates on win10 machines. I've seen an update just today.
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I know one can install win11 with a hack but then you don't get any win11 updates afterwards.
You don't need to hack 11 LTSC to get it to install, and you'll get updates.
I'm fairly sure you get updates for regular win11 install as well, but that may no longer be true.
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I'm fairly sure you get updates for regular win11 install as well, it just *may* prevent future updates.
Yes, I think that threat of "no updates" is just Microsoft spreading FUD for now. I have done a couple of Win 11 installations on "incompatible" PCs via Rufus, and so far they are receiving all the regular updates.
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Win11 requires, from memory, the SSE4 CPU (not an issue if less than 10 years old), UEFI, secure boot, and TPM.
It is a matter of debate how far back you have to go to not get TPM but a high end PC or laptop from say 2018 probably won't have it.
If a machine is not 100% compatible then Win11 will need a hack to install. Then, AIUI, IME, you will not get Win11 major updates but will get patches and antivirus updates.
How much it matters to not get major updates is debatable, especially as you can install them manually with the hack again :)
But if say Fusion requires Win11 it probably doesn't care which Win11.
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Win11 requires, from memory, the SSE4 CPU (not an issue if less than 10 years old), UEFI, secure boot, and TPM.
[...]
If a machine is not 100% compatible then Win11 will need a hack to install. Then, AIUI you will not get Win11 major updates but will get patches and antivirus updates.
Yes, we are talking about the same things. The "Rufus" tool I mentioned is one (very convenient) way to "hack" the installation to avoid those artificial requirements.
I think the 25H2 update, i.e. the most recent major (?) upgrade, has worked or is offered on "non-compatible" machines as well. Sure, Microsoft reserves the right not to roll out future upgrades to those older machines. If they actually withhold them, that may be a good thing... they are just making Windows shittier by forcing Copilot and online services down our throats.
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Yes, 25H2 can be installed with Rufus, but you won't be offered the next one by M$ :)
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Yes, 25H2 can be installed with Rufus, but you won't be offered the next one by M$ :)
What I meant is that I had installed Win 11 24H2 (or whatever the current version was at that time) via Rufus, and could later update to 25H2.
Will a future 2026 version be available too? We don't know. Microsoft states that those old machines "may" not be supported, but up to now apparently all updates have been made available. I have read the claim somewhere that major updates will not be actively offered on those pseudo-incompatible machines, but have to be "requested" by the user somehow -- but I don't recall how this actually went for 25H2.
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Interesting. I have two similar to this
Edition Windows 11 Pro
Version 24H2
Installed on 24/07/2025
OS build 26100.7623
Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.26100.275.0
which will not upgrade, via M$ update. But maybe win11 was installed on these via some other hack. They are Lenovo mini PCs, one i5 and one i7.
Not that this matters to Fusion, or any other app I know about.
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The stupid software now asks for a login, sending a code to your email address before the application opens.
Why on earth are they exercising this degree of control over the user?
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Because Autodesk. Any other questions?
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The stupid software now asks for a login, sending a code to your email address before the application opens.
Why on earth are they exercising this degree of control over the user?
because they want people making money with it to pay for the software. free Fusion for home use started with few restrictions but of course people started abusing it
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I appreciate Autodesk won't know what I do with it (I asked someone to design a box for me and I use it to open the .f3d file and export to STEP to get a Chinese shop to make five of them; I have no idea how to use the program for anything, and it seems too bloody complicated to even stick a hole somewhere) but IF I was using it for a core business function (like PCB design or drawing circuits) I would NOT use this thing for it, because Autodesk could f**k me one day with these measures, and then I can't open the file anymore.
If I was actually doing 3D design I would use FreeCAD because it is a standalone application, can be archived, run in a VM if necessary, doesn't AFAIK phone back to the Church to do mandatory telemetry, etc.
Basically Fusion is dongled, and Autodesk owns that dongle and "re-approves" it every time you use the program. It is completely ridiculous what "we" accept this, and spend time to generate designs which nothing else can open.
All Autodesk needs to do is to delete that validation server, or accidentally or deliberately remove your credentials from it, and you cannot use the program!
The only protection you have is to export every version of your design to STEP and archive those, but you can't edit those properly.
And they charge £80/month for this.
And it is not even a normal executable. It is a huge number of files which end up dumped across a number of directories somewhere in Application Data (i.e. under the c:\users tree) so you can't even find the executable, so you could reinstall it.
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I appreciate Autodesk won't know what I do with it (I asked someone to design a box for me and I use it to open the .f3d file and export to STEP to get a Chinese shop to make five of them; I have no idea how to use the program for anything, and it seems too bloody complicated to even stick a hole somewhere) but IF I was using it for a core business function (like PCB design or drawing circuits) I would NOT use this thing for it, because Autodesk could f**k me one day with these measures, and then I can't open the file anymore.
So you used it to make money?
If I was actually doing 3D design I would use FreeCAD because it is a standalone application, can be archived, run in a VM if necessary, doesn't AFAIK phone back to the Church to do mandatory telemetry, etc.
I've tried Freecad because it would be convenient to not need windows, but I find freecad to be absolutely horrid
The only protection you have is to export every version of your design to STEP and archive those, but you can't edit those properly.
And they charge £80/month for this.
You can edit stepfiles, but you will ofcourse lose all the fusion specific things like parametrics and constrains
£80/month is so cheap it might as well be free if you are using it professionally, if you buy a year it is only £50/month
Similar programs with a perpetual license you would basically pay the same monthly price 10 years up front then on top pay £1500 per year for updates and support
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So you used it to make money?
Not more than $1000 annually, by the sound of it.
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The stupid software now asks for a login, sending a code to your email address before the application opens.
I don't think this has happened to me yet, except after I had installed Fusion on a new computer. What are the exact circumstances under which you get the code-via-email verification?
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I have not made enough out of this to pay a month's rental :) It is a hobby project. As I said, it would be dumb to use it for a production item, when you can lose the source. Admittedly that happens when you contract out injection mould design, you get IGES only, but few regard that as unusual...
Not sure of the circumstances or why it does this check. Maybe it found some aborted installs from the past?
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The stupid software now asks for a login, sending a code to your email address before the application opens.
I don't think this has happened to me yet, except after I had installed Fusion on a new computer. What are the exact circumstances under which you get the code-via-email verification?
doesn't seem to have any specific circumstances, it occasionally happens with a paid license too
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In what way is Freecad horrible?
I think Fusion is horrible. I've spent my life learning UIs etc etc and have been totally unable to do anything with Fusion, other than select components for export and rotate them for viewing. It is incredibly context dependent.
I used Autocad ok many years ago.
Fundamentally, with 3D tools you draw the plan view and then extrude it on the Z axis. I am sure Freecad can do that. Also many years ago I played with some free version of Solid Edge (which I now see advertised by Siemens!!).
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If all you do is draw a plan and extrude it, then FreeCAD works fine. If you do anything more complicated, it is pretty painful.
I use it a lot because I won't give Autodesk any money nor do I want to be locked to proprietary ecosystem, but I suffer for it. You need to be careful and work around known weak points, or complex models will break often.
FreeCAD is improving a lot recently and some of the major issues are being addressed, but fundamentally it is limited by its geometry engine (OpenCASCADE). And those issues are not going to be easy to solve.
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I've tried FreeCAD, but I wasted a lot of time trying to do what I can do easily and reasonably quickly in Fusion. Currently, I am on a grandfathered plan, which means the recent price increases have not affected me. FreeCAD is, well, free and open source, which is excellent. But it also feels very much that way. It may have improved of late. The last time I really tried to get to grips with it, it felt disjointed and clunky.
The huge downside is that Fusion has zero interoperability with anything else. My stuff is "locked" in the ecosystem. I could export everything and load the .step files into another platform or recreate them elsewhere. For me, it isn't viable time-wise to do that. It is "cheaper" to pay and keep using Fusion. If the price really does go up, then I'll have to look again at options.
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Autodesk make sure the Fusion .f3d format remains non-portable, because they change it with every Fusion update i.e. about once a month. A non-updated Fusion cannot open a .f3d file from a later version. OK; could be just a version # they write in there, which could be hacked (unless they use a crypto hash) but the intention is clearly there.
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I've been using FreeCAD for a long time and don't find it as troublesome
as everyone is making it out to be. Even for complex models.
I mostly use an old version 0.21.2 for Win7 which was released in 2024.
Examples I've done:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=411124.0;attach=2770093;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173925.0;attach=2779105;image) (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173925.0;attach=2779109;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173925.0;attach=2799859;image) (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173925.0;attach=2799825;image)
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There is a factor of moving to another CAD. It will always be harder to do the same simple thing in a CAD you never used.
Over time you get used to the way things work and just avoid things you know may cause issues.
FreeCAD is perfectly usable for hobby applications. It is nowhere close to commercial use. But again, everyone who has tried it 3+ years ago does not have a full picture. Last couple major releases fixed a lot of stuff. This jump feels like when KiCad moved from v5 to v6. It is on a path to getting actually useful.
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There is always a learning curve on any sophisticated tool. That's why I refuse to use tools which are controlled "online" by the vendor :)
I should check out freelancer.com for FreeCAD :)
FreeCAD is perfectly usable for hobby applications. It is nowhere close to commercial use
Can you quantify this? IMHO a tool suitable for commercial use is one which does the job and has no long term issues. Fusion absolutely does have huge potential long term issues. Imagine you have just chucked out your win10 PCs and replaced them with win11 compatible ones, just so Fusion can continue to receive updates (which is mandatory if you want to open .f3d files produced by Fusion running on a win11 PC). OK; M$ will probably not perform the same mandatory-dumpster-loading stunt on win11 to win12, but can you be sure?
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"Freelancer" . . . That would be me. :-DD
The last two models I posted photos of I did for two forum members.
Each of the models were done in an afternoon.
But, sub-millimeter adjustments to get the proper fit took a few days. Time zones wreck the whole process.
Follow along with the fun here:
3D model for Fluke CableIQ wiremap adapter (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/(request)-3d-model-for-fluke-cableiq-wiremap-adapter-cover-(ciq-wm)-broken-tab/msg6210695/#msg6210695)
Grille for Kikusui PLZ334W Electronic Load (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/grille-for-kikusui-plz334w-electronic-load/msg6237581/#msg6237581)
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I've sent you a PM :)
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Can you quantify this?
Sure. You need to be prepared to redo a lot of operations unless your tree is absolutely perfect.
The older versions were really bad. They improved topological naming problem, and it became more robust, but still not perfect.
It's geometry engine notoriously struggles with fillets. Sometimes fillets will not work for no obvious reason.
And the biggest one is error reporting. A lot of complex operations will fail with "error: not done" and you will have no clue why. This is really big, and unfortunately it just passes OpenCASCADE error, so it is very hard to fix.
In a hobby environment it is fine, but when time is money,you will be losing money.
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How easy is it to swap out OpenCASCADE? If someone waved a magic wand and replaced it with a performant, bug-free geometry library, would FreeCAD suddenly become competitive with the major proprietary packages?
It's not as if there are unsolved problems in the field of computational geometry. It's just a pain in the ass to work with. Or, rather, it traditionally has been. Maybe it's not so bad now.
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It is hard to tell, the UI while somewhat independent, still represents capabilities of the engine. Swapping the engine will lead to some UI changes, and I have no idea how much.
But generally, all long running day to day things end up being engine related. FreeCAD team does decent work on the UI and that work accelerated in the recent versions, but there is so much they can do.
Error reporting is one of the biggest complaints. It would be much easier to figure out how to fix issues if error messages were more specific. It would not eliminate the issues, but it would make existing ones less frustrating.
From my perspective, a lot of workbenches need to be combined. And this is something FreeCAD authors could do, but it looks like they like the way things are. Again, it feels like they are in an early KiCAD days - just doing their own thing. And the only way they get significant traction if they start matching industry standard behavior.
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Will the latest version work on win7-64?
Online, I see various data. Some say win10. Others say win7-64.
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Will the latest version work on win7-64?
Online, I see various data. Some say win10. Others say win7-64.
FreeCAD 0.21.2 is the newest version that will install on Win7 "offically".
There is an development version of the 1.0 series someone built that will run on Win7 but
I've had some issues where it doesn't always update the screen properly.
You can try it if you want:
Download file: FreeCAD_40316-LP_2.11-Windows-x86_64-py38_kiss.7z
from here: https://github.com/kisolre/FreeCAD/releases/tag/weekly_Win7 (https://github.com/kisolre/FreeCAD/releases/tag/weekly_Win7)
(No installer. Just unzip it into a folder.)
While I'm at it. MangoJelly has put out several tutorials for FreeCAD.
They are very good and I refer to them often.
FreeCAD 0.20 / 0.21 For Beginners (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWuyJLVUNtc0UszswD0oD5q4VeWTrK7JC) playlist
He has playlists for version 1.0 of FreeCAD also.
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Can the win7-64 FreeCAD open designs (in native format) from a win10 version of FreeCAD?
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I have been able to go back-and-forth between the two versions but it is not seamless.
Mostly colors and body transparency are messed up. There are other things too.
I HIGHLY recommend you pick a version and stick with it.
You can upgrade to newer versions without issue.
If you want to run FreeCAD on both a Win7 and a Win10 machine,
then stick with the older FreeCAD 0.21.2 version on both machines.
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OK. Is there a benefit in installing FreeCAD on win10? I have one win10 PC and a win10 laptop.
I also have a win11 machine, in a cabinet, accessible over remote desktop. It had to be win11 for obscure reasons but since I had it, I installed Fusion on it; it works well enough to export to STEP :) But only a complete cretin would make something win11-only; there is no "software" point whatsoever. Actually no point in anything higher than win7-64...
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There is a benefit in running v1.0 or v1.1 on whatever OS you can make it run on. While v0.21.2 is stable, it is also old, and all the recent significant improvements happened in v1.x.
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Is there a page somewhere which states the actual OS requirements?
The coder will know, I would hope...
Admittedly a lot of the time the requirements are not real e.g. Cube IDE runs on win7-64 just fine, despite win10+ claims on the ST website (probably the work of corporate compliance cretins).
My plan is to find someone who can draw stuff up for me, and then I can export to STEP, plus maybe do small mods myself. With Fusion I would have to go on a course.
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https://wiki.freecad.org/Download - "The following Windows versions are supported: 64-bit 10/11."
You can try to run it on Win 7, but if something breaks, it is on you. I would expect some issues coming from the new versions of Qt and Python.
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I did have an issue recently, setting up a machine to run latest Python for someone. I ran it under VMWARE on a win11 host, and the VM had to be the latest one. Would not have expected that dependency for Python!
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FreeCAD 1.0 version and newer require Windows 10. It is a REAL requirement.
I seem to remember the Win10 requirement is due to their moving to the newer version of Python but don't me to that.
If I remember the 1.0 versions will not even install on Win7 let alone run.
The only 1.0 version that will run on Win7 is that development version I linked to earlier.
It is unoffical and not provided by FreeCAD. It's 99% operational with a few issues.
I only ran it for a few weeks and returned to 0.21.2 because my daily driver is a Win7 laptop.
To be most compatible with other people, I would run the newest 1.1.1 version on Win10.
It will open older files but trying to open newer files on an old version with new capabilities is
touch-and-go. I've been able to open old files as far back as version 0.16 of FreeCAD.
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OK thank you.
I will start on win10 and the latest FreeCAD.
Reading their forum, I can see they use Python to implement a lot of the functionality of the program. So, yeah, the latest Python does need some new OS features.
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Python was the major reason Kicad 7+ wouldn't work on Windows 7. Fix there was to install VxKex which fakes the necessary OS calls. Maybe that would work with FreeCAD too if it's just Python.
Edit: Just tried it and VxKex makes a difference but FreeCAD still crashes, just later in the process.
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This is an interesting video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZtqvKIVcuk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZtqvKIVcuk)
but like all the comparisons he misses what to some is a key point which is that the vendor controls your use of it and can stop your installation working at any time in the future.
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Just a final update: I dumped Fusion and moved to FreeCAD.
I found a guy who converted the last Fusion design to FreeCAD for about £100. Absolutely worth it!
Autodesk probably got a load of crap over their win10 drop in Oct 2025 because they are still updating Fusion on win10! Loads of people can't "officially" install win11.
Just started up Fusion on this nice Dell £1800 win10 laptop and it asks for a damned login again... sod that. I will uninstall it.
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I now get a 100% rate of having to do the browser login (with the emailed code etc). This is on a win10 machine, current Fusion version (they are still offering updates on win10).
This may be a way of screwing the "student" users into paying, because it is pretty inconvenient. Even more glad I moved to FreeCAD.
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Could be your browser? I am getting the equivalent of that when I log in to various sites which used to just accept I am still me. The browser has implemented (AI, no less) anti-tracking which defeats browser instance identification some sites rely on for keeping logins....
Switch to Edge and it's back to the old 'do it once forever' no fuss. Which might be a good reason to stop using Edge, of course :)
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I don't think so because Fusion is a standalone application which should not need a browser to start up.
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Ah, good point ;D