Avoid PCBway

[digsys]

I'm just wondering the best way to get 1/2 piece of several different designs made without being stung.

In my case - especially if it is only 1oz, the most expensive part is the freight, so I do several 100mm x 100mm panels, and vgrove or cut them up myself.
Just have to check the MIN VGrove limits. Putting 2+ designs on that 100x100 costs bugger all extra.

[urosg]

I used PCBway a couple of times now and for low power designs they are ok but in one application where I guess we pushed the design a little too much to the limit the inrush current burned out the traces of the PCBWay boards where as the previous boards that were made by a manufacturer in EU survived the installation.

I am now using them for non critical prototyping stuff only.

[Buriedcode]

I'm just wondering the best way to get 1/2 piece of several different designs made without being stung.

In my case - especially if it is only 1oz, the most expensive part is the freight, so I do several 100mm x 100mm panels, and vgrove or cut them up myself.
Just have to check the MIN VGrove limits. Putting 2+ designs on that 100x100 costs bugger all extra.

Cheers!  For 'hobby' projects I rarely have a need for more than two of one design, and lots of small adapters for prototyping.  They're also often rather small, so if I can get say 5 bigger designs and lots of smaller ones for <£60 I'm laughing. I still make the occasional DIY board if its simple and small enough, but dear god I hate it.

[rx8pilot]

My tiny little PCB's arrived today. First time attempting 25mil font size but it is easily readable. Strange shape PCB but it turned out ok.

Shipped in 3 days I believe.

[westfw]

FWIW, I sent a 10x10cm PCB to PCBWay on 11-Jan-2017.  They charged $10 for the PCBs (several of the Chinese sites have recently lowered their prices for larger boards, or have "specials" - I'm not complaining!) (it's especially nice to have the max "free EAGLE" PCB come in at the minimum price!)    They charged $21 for shipping, shipped using DHL, and I had the boards in my hand on 16-Jan-2017.   They're lovely and work fine (except for my own mistakes), and I was very impressed with the turnaround time; I was expecting the old 2-4 weeks...  (Oh: they let me use $2 from a $5 "new customer" coupon as well!)

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/58843278@N00/31450347183/in/album-72157622049680333/

In contrast, I sent two smaller boards (one 5x5, one 5x10) to Seeed on 16-feb-2017.  The PCBs were $10 each, and they charged $15.30 for shipping.  They claim to have shipped on 24-feb, they used the normal "postal service",  and I'm still waiting for them.  (This is about what I expect, and I'm not complaining.  But PCBWay was a lot more impressive - I had boards in my hand in less time than Seeed took to make them.)

I consider both shipping charges to be "reasonable."  I'm pretty sure that they're in-line or better than what it would cost me to ship in the other direction.   One "problem" is that the low-price "Hong Kong Post" package has a weight limit (100g?), and it doesn't take much FR4 to exceed that limit and get you into the realm of higher prices.  My 10x10 PCBs are about 30g each.  (I guess this might be a reason to order "less than the cheapest amount" (5 vs 10) of a PCB?  I haven't tried that yet.)  (Hmm.  Itead charged me $3.90 to ship 10 5x5 boards, back in 2013.)

So I've used Dorkbot (2010!), Itead, OSHPark (several small boards), PCBWay, and now Seeed for one board each, and I've been happy with all of them.  OSHPark is probably my favorite, because three boards is usually plenty, and a lot of things I want to do with PCBs are very small, but they get very expensive when your boards get bigger :-(  I haven't used any of them "a lot."  Yet.
I intentionally design my PCBs very conservatively, though (well, there were those SiLego GP12 breakouts...  Small size, small risk!)  It's nice to be rewarded for such conservative practices, by being able to pay lower prices.   Now if only I could find someone really cheap to do those 30cm PCBs with the 5mm design rules (for the Wimshurst, you know!)  :-)

[mrpackethead]

its got better.. try pcbways brother company allpcb. You can get the same boards even cheaper.  At this rate in 2019, they will be giving us money to take their pcbs.

[cgroen]

Thanks for the headsup on PCBWay, we are just about to order 3000 pcs of a simple board (1 layer, 0.4 mm thick) for a special purpose
I'm a little excited to see how this goes, the price is for sure alright!!
Guess the title of the thread has become a magnet for new customers 

[digsys]

Had another few 100 pcbs delivered today. All good, except still annoyed with their communication skills (not the first time)
One of the gerbers I sent had a badly misplaced solder mask section. They picked it up immediately, sent back pictures, with circles and arrows of the "suspect" area,
and a query. Fixed the error, and sent back the correction via "reply to", which they either didn't get, or as once before, it got lost in their obviously huge email volume.
There's no way to verify they received the update, and I tried explaining the issue, but they didn't understand. Once I sent back as a new job update, and that got lost
as well. I'm sure they'll redo them if I ask, but it's a waste. I'll see if I can get an explanation at least.

[nikess]

Have used them for several small runs (5-100) PCB's and could deal with the communications gaps but the last order was also the last straw. Decide to use the wire transfer option vs. PayPal, big mistake, sent the wire on June 2, received confirmation from our bank, as of today, July 5th, nothing. They keep telling me it hasn't shown up in their account although our bank confirms it was received by their bank. I'm not sure if they are capable of picking up a phone and calling their bank to ask why they can't have their money? Instead of calling their bank, they want our company to pull the wire transfer back and use PayPal. I would not recommend using this company, their customer service is heavy on apathy and short on action.

[KE5FX]

I recently sent Allpcb a simple 4-layer board with 6/6 feature sizes as a trial run:



I ordered 5 boards at $16 ea, and they sent 7.  Sunstone quoted the same order at $55 each.   

Allpcb's FR-4 material isn't quite as nice to work with as Sunstone's.  It feels somewhat flakier, for want of a more technical term.  But it's perfectly functional, no complaints on tolerances.  The $25 stencil I ordered with these boards was also very nicely done.  I can't see using domestic manufacturers for prototyping in the future, given the massive price difference and reasonable quality.   

The next board I need to spin will be a lot more challenging, so we'll see if the quality holds up...

[KE5FX]

Depending on size. So far OSHPark is still hard to beat at small sizes.

Aren't they just an aggregator for offshore builds?  That used to be the case when they were called BatchPCB.com.

PCBWay offers high Tg boards at a premium.

This simple PCB actually does need another test spin, so maybe I'll try PCBWay just for the sake of comparison.

[rs20]

The next board I need to spin will be a lot more challenging, so we'll see if the quality holds up...

PCBWay offers high Tg boards at a premium.

I'm confused, did KE5FX mention anything about high-temperature service? Or is there an implication here that high Tg boards have better tolerancing or something else beyond the higher service temperature rating?

I'm not criticizing to be clear, just trying to figure out what I'm missing here.

[digsys]

Anyone know if any of these if any of these manufacturers actually have 4oz capability IN-HOUSE !!? I'm assuming PCBWay, plus a couple others I used once, send it to other
manufacturer. I base this on - much longer lead times .. big jump in price ( 1>2oz, 2>3oz are fine) .. NO tracking at all etc. It's enough of a concern to keep a careful eye out on ONE
manufacturer .. knowing that it is being handed around gives me the heebie-jeebies :-)

[floobydust]

I've had good quality from PCBway, the result was made by King Board (4-layer) and very good 2oz copper. Tough laminate, withstood rework.
OSH Park I have not had good luck with, IPA attacks their solder mask and hole sizes get rounded down too much, parts don't fit.

I do not trust the copper thickness coming from low cost Asian PCB houses because skimping there means your PCB heats up and burns.
UPS manufacturer APC actually has a small PCB trace strip with testpoints to measure resistance and confirm copper thickness, right on their products.

Are they an IPC shop, ISO-9001 quality system? No.

[digsys]

  ... IPA attacks their solder mask ...

I have 5 different solvents / cleaners and are constantly trying them all to find one that doesn't react with the solder mask, for each suppler, and sometimes each batch.
I bet my new 4oz will be different again.

... I do not trust the copper thickness coming from low cost Asian PCB houses  .... a small PCB trace strip with testpoints to measure resistance and
confirm copper thickness, right on their products .... 

As I've noted recently, I usually always add my own test strips to each bact. 50-200th wide, 1-2" long. Then run test currents through and check voltage drop. It has to be done.

[nardev]

I've had good quality from PCBway, the result was made by King Board (4-layer) and very good 2oz copper. Tough laminate, withstood rework.
OSH Park I have not had good luck with, IPA attacks their solder mask and hole sizes get rounded down too much, parts don't fit.

I do not trust the copper thickness coming from low cost Asian PCB houses because skimping there means your PCB heats up and burns.
UPS manufacturer APC actually has a small PCB trace strip with testpoints to measure resistance and confirm copper thickness, right on their products.

Are they an IPC shop, ISO-9001 quality system? No.

Sorry but OSH park is exactly what they say... it's not  something you would choose for high quantity ... and it's more for hobbyists...

[digsys]

Well, I got my first 4oz back a few weeks ago, and the thermal imager (at 20A) tell me they are FINE !! Very little difference, if any, to 5x more expensive local PCBs.
If all these PCB makers were so bad, there'd be several MILLION recalls EVERY WEEK !! Haven't heard anything like that on www Use the numbers.
And yes, originally, I was slightly concerned, so I ran destructive and analytical tests. Guess what, the copper wasn't reclaimed coke cans, or the mask cut with
bleach to make it cheaper. Shock.
So, a solder mask is slightly off, so some pads are drilled 0.1 thou off center, so the silk screen is a little fuzzy ... I can't sell my products because that's not professional?
Geez, I've had just as many issues (or worse) with local, very expensive, PCB manufacturers over many years. So you may get a few duds. That's why we do QC !!
And even IF I had a 200% failure rate, I'm still way in front. YMMV

[asmi]

I would like to share my own experience with PCBWay. Recently ordered 10 4-layer board 92x80 mm, 0.15/0.15 mm trace/spacing (yes they are metric!), 0.3 mm drill, ENIG. The board had several 1.0 mm pitch BGAs. The price was $72 + shipping. Received 11 boards (as is typical of them). The only odd requirement they told me during audit was that trace spacing under BGAs on the top layer has to be at least 0.25 mm. Here are boards:

Silkscreen is a bit choppy in few places, but that's OK with me as I only needed it to aid manual assembly.

Here is that board assembled (well - almost assembled - I didn't solder power supply-related components as this was my first ever 4-layer board with BGA parts on it so I wanted to limit financial losses in case I screwed something up, I powered it from separate power supply which is using same components):

I didn't bother to read datasheet on JTAG connector so I didn't know that it's not temperature-resistant, which is why it partially melted, but everything else soldered perfectly - including BGA balls (most of them as I didn't break out every single one of them due to running out of routing space).
The boards works like sharm! And I'm double-happy since I've managed not to screw up layout this time around

Allpcb recently announced a new service with very attractive prices for 4 and 6 layer boards, but for some reason they charge extra fees for each BGA part, so PCBWay ended up cheaper for this design. Maybe that will change for 6-layer boards as PCBWay's pricing is very high (especially if you need process finer that "default" 0.15/0.15/0.3 mm, which is what I will need for 0.8 mm pitch BGAs).

[gagrdonik]

They make a Hugh profit on freight,

I changed to http://www.elecrow.com/ and is more fair , with real freight price,  good quality and better price than pcbway.

I think you are right