Bad experience with JLCPCB and DHL – things you should know before ordering PCBs

[johnnieee]

I absolutely love JLCPCB+DHL.  I've ordered from seeedstudio and I was happy with them, but JLC is just faster.  I've never had issues with customs or fees or anything(I'm in the US).

Has anyone had recent (past few months) experience with shipping JLCPCB boards to the United States? I'm about to place my first order, and it looks like my options are DHL or FedEx International Priority. I'm curious what to expect for the customs experience here. Thanks!

[wraper]

I'm curious what to expect for the customs experience here. Thanks!

Get them simply delivered without questions unless you make an order of over $800.

[ebastler]

Both of you apparently do not know how air filters work. It's not like there are small holes which should not pass the particle.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. 

I am well aware that the pore size is much larger than the particles to be filtered. But it is nowhere near 100 µm in an FFP2 (or N95) mask, which was the pore size stated above by dietert as an example for an unsuitable mask.



"N95-electrocharged filtration principle based face mask design using common materials",
Mahesh M. Bandi, Nonlinear and Non-equilibrium Physics Unit, OIST Graduate University
https://groups.oist.jp/nnp/diy-face-mask

[Zoli]

I just placed my first ever order with JLCPCB. I'm in Canada, so the $5 USD cost of the order was converted to $6.25 CAD. In the past, when ordering things with FedEx, my experience has been that they just dump the item at your doorstep, then they wait 3 weeks and mail you an invoice for their brokerage service, which has a $50+ base fee. So, I never use FedEx if I can avoid it. I picked DHL Express, which cost $19 shipping for my $6 order. The package is now in the country, and DHL have just sent me an invoice for an additional $20 to get it through customs. Surely at $6.25 CAD, this order doesn't even have any customs to be paid. DHL is wanting to be paid over $40 in order to deliver a tiny box with 10 small PCBs valued at $6. Not impressed. If I want to self-clear, I need to deliver documentation by hand and pick up the item from their depot, both of which are near the airport, a half hour drive away. Waiting to hear back if they'll let me do that at this point. :-/

Hi,

I think that you should have chosen the DDP option:

(Attachment Link)


DDP means 'Delivered Duty Paid'. This option means that you should not be stung with additional charges by DHL.

Has anybody had any experience with the DHL DPP option in Canada?

Regards,
Jay_Diddy_B

As I've said in post #98 of this thread, I've ordered DHL DPP then, and twice more since then.
And I'm pretty sure that most of the readers are interested in the prices, so here we go:
Order #1: CAD $13.09 PCB's, CAD $38.35 shipping
Order #2: CAD $19.50 PCB's, CAD $39.86 shipping
Order #3: CAD $68.48 PCB's, CAD $52.75 shipping
And as I've said previously, no extra charges at delivery time.
All of the orders arrived in less than 8 days from payment to delivery(twice ROHS HASL, one ENIG).

[logiclrd]

I just placed my first ever order with JLCPCB. I'm in Canada, so the $5 USD cost of the order was converted to $6.25 CAD. In the past, when ordering things with FedEx, my experience has been that they just dump the item at your doorstep, then they wait 3 weeks and mail you an invoice for their brokerage service, which has a $50+ base fee. So, I never use FedEx if I can avoid it. I picked DHL Express, which cost $19 shipping for my $6 order. The package is now in the country, and DHL have just sent me an invoice for an additional $20 to get it through customs. Surely at $6.25 CAD, this order doesn't even have any customs to be paid. DHL is wanting to be paid over $40 in order to deliver a tiny box with 10 small PCBs valued at $6. Not impressed. If I want to self-clear, I need to deliver documentation by hand and pick up the item from their depot, both of which are near the airport, a half hour drive away. Waiting to hear back if they'll let me do that at this point. :-/

Hi,

I think that you should have chosen the DDP option:
[..]
DDP means 'Delivered Duty Paid'. This option means that you should not be stung with additional charges by DHL.

That makes a lot of sense. I didn't know what that meant at the time, but in future orders I think I'll be using that option :-)

Thanks!

[drussell]

Indeed, as stated above several times, when you're ordering from somewhere that does enough volume to have a pre-approval, pre-clearance customs option available from a shipper, (as JLCPCB seems to have for some countries) you would be insane not to use it. 

That will be guaranteed to be the least expensive way (except perhaps regular post to some countries) because they have a special deal to clear things in batches and they do all the necessary import processing.  What most people here seem to be annoyed with is the lack of that option being available to them, or perhaps mistakenly not using it when available...   

[logiclrd]

I don't like the fee either, but, hey, I wouldn't want to work for free, so I shouldn't expect them to do it.

I guess the thing that gets me is that they charge this huge fee separately from the shipping. As far as I can tell, they know they're going to charge it. It's not like it was a surprise to them. So, it feels like they're being deliberately deceptive, not bundling it into the initial shipping fee. If they know for certain that they're going to be charging the fee, then instead of saying "Shipping is $19" followed by "$15 fee to clear customs, plus $5 customs & tax", I feel it would be more honest for them to say "$34 for shipping, and you'll get a bill later for just the customs and tax". To place an order, pay for shipping and everything, and then be hit by a follow-up bill that's way more than the actual customs & tax, well, it really stings.

At least they don't wait until weeks after delivery, like I've had FedEx do to me.

[wraper]

I don't like the fee either, but, hey, I wouldn't want to work for free, so I shouldn't expect them to do it.

I guess the thing that gets me is that they charge this huge fee separately from the shipping. As far as I can tell, they know they're going to charge it. It's not like it was a surprise to them. So, it feels like they're being deliberately deceptive, not bundling it into the initial shipping fee. If they know for certain that they're going to be charging the fee, then instead of saying "Shipping is $19" followed by "$15 fee to clear customs, plus $5 customs & tax", I feel it would be more honest for them to say "$34 for shipping, and you'll get a bill later for just the customs and tax". To place an order, pay for shipping and everything, and then be hit by a follow-up bill that's way more than the actual customs & tax, well, it really stings.

At least they don't wait until weeks after delivery, like I've had FedEx do to me.

How can they charge that when then they don't do the clearance? Nor they know how much customer will be charged in each particular case. If you cannot be bothered with figuring out how importing goods works, do not import. Also low value goods below CAD $20 do not require clearance. If you local DHL still wants to charge you, blame your local DHL, not JLCPCB.

[2N3055]

I don't like the fee either, but, hey, I wouldn't want to work for free, so I shouldn't expect them to do it.

I guess the thing that gets me is that they charge this huge fee separately from the shipping. As far as I can tell, they know they're going to charge it. It's not like it was a surprise to them. So, it feels like they're being deliberately deceptive, not bundling it into the initial shipping fee. If they know for certain that they're going to be charging the fee, then instead of saying "Shipping is $19" followed by "$15 fee to clear customs, plus $5 customs & tax", I feel it would be more honest for them to say "$34 for shipping, and you'll get a bill later for just the customs and tax". To place an order, pay for shipping and everything, and then be hit by a follow-up bill that's way more than the actual customs & tax, well, it really stings.

At least they don't wait until weeks after delivery, like I've had FedEx do to me.

Technically, it would be wrong to combine those. They are different things. And some are not known upfront, until shipment reaches your customs office and customs declaration is drawn up.
Goods and transport cost combines to single sum that gets customs on it. And, depending of country, goods and position of planets, Customs office in your country will magically produce some number of tax+customs fees.  And your agent will send you their bill for the effort..

That is why customs unions (like NAFTA or EU) are so great.. It is COMPLICATED to import stuff from other countries...

[wraper]

Goods and transport cost combines to single sum that gets customs on it. And, depending of country, goods and position of planets, Customs office in your country will magically produce some number of tax+customs fees.  And your agent will send you their bill for the effort..

That is why customs unions (like NAFTA or EU) are so great.. It is COMPLICATED to import stuff from other countries...

Actually nope. At least in EU and many other places the amount you need to pay depends on how customs broker (say DHL) declared it. And because they are lazy bastards, often you need to pay more than you owe. They may simply slap statistical shipping cost on top of invoice which already includes it. Actual customs only approve customs declaration at best. Also shipping cost is not included in tax free threshold. Our EUR 22 limit does not include shipping cost. However shipping cost is also subject to VAT once tax free threshold is exceeded.
BTW I do customs clearance for my business myself. And as is it's for business, I need to do a full blown procedure with TARIC codes for each type of item, other codes applicable to some goods (say if there may be goods of military use with such code, and it's basically half of components) and documents supplied. Procedure code depending on total value, value of each item and so on  . A big convoluted PITA in a nutshell. On my first two attempts, I gave up and paid to customs broker in the end. My friend who runs a logistics company said that I'm the only person he knows who does (business) clearance himself instead of paying to customs broker.
Here it's much easier for individual though. Simply go to a website. Fill in with your words what goods there are and their value. Upload an invoice or some other document and it's done. When customs broker does it fo you, they go a full procedure regardless of recipient being business or individual.

[dietert1]

I also got a customs registration to be able and declare myself. It happened about 15 years ago when i was importing electronics from USA. I may have done about 200 declarations since then. But never ever i had to declare anything from China. First because they lie about the value but sometimes i suspect the German government has secret deals with China. Or there is such a flood of small packets arriving from China that they gave up.

Recently i got two nice aluminum enclosures from China. My packet did not contain two kits but somebody packed a kit for making two enclosures - amazing. I only buy simple things from China like mechanical parts, plugs and the like. Maybe PCBs are in that category nowadays.

Regards, Dieter

[Yansi]

That is, because in EU (including DE), anything below 22€ is not required to be processed for VAT and customs fees.  If the customs do not have suspicion the goods are over 22€, they don't catch it for further processing.

The declared value on the package is only informative and from my experince, they don't give ratss ass about what's written there. However in case the declared value is over 22€, their duty is to take the thing for customs processing - at least to get you to pay VAT (and above 150€, even customs duty may be applied).

This is however subject to change, beginning 2021, not sure, June/July or when. Everything imported will be eligible for the import customs processing, so that the state, or EU respectively, can milk the end user even more.

Because, it is not big corporations, that will get beaten by this. It is always the end customer.  And then talk about sustainability in EU...

[balage]

This is however subject to change, beginning 2021, not sure, June/July or when. Everything imported will be eligible for the import customs processing, so that the state, or EU respectively, can milk the end user even more.

Is this true for Germany only or for the whole EU in general? Shit seems happen.

[Yansi]

As far as I know, this shit was pushed from top of the EU. So, rules for all.

[daveismissing]

The option I chose this week says FEDEX INTL Priority specifically.
Now FEDEX INTL PRIORITY has all brokerage and customs charges built into the price.
I will be very annoyed if JCL lied about what service they used on my order.

I think you delude yourself. Unless it says DDP, nothing is included. But items below CAD $20 are not taxable.

"Customs clearance is included with every FedEx Express international shipment, "
https://www.fedex.com/en-ca/shipping-services/service-options/international-broker-select.html

[logiclrd]

How can they charge that when then they don't do the clearance? Nor they know how much customer will be charged in each particular case. If you cannot be bothered with figuring out how importing goods works, do not import. Also low value goods below CAD $20 do not require clearance. If you local DHL still wants to charge you, blame your local DHL, not JLCPCB.

I apologize, I wasn't clear. I'm saying that DHL is being deceptive by separating these things out. DHL knows they're going to be doing this additional work, and they know in advance that they're going to be sending you a bill for more money. They should simply be telling JLCPCB that the shipping cost to pass on to you includes the service fee.

[logiclrd]

Technically, it would be wrong to combine those. They are different things. And some are not known upfront, until shipment reaches your customs office and customs declaration is drawn up.
Goods and transport cost combines to single sum that gets customs on it. And, depending of country, goods and position of planets, Customs office in your country will magically produce some number of tax+customs fees.  And your agent will send you their bill for the effort..

That is why customs unions (like NAFTA or EU) are so great.. It is COMPLICATED to import stuff from other countries...

Okay. But, I was wrong about the shipment being in my country already. It's actually still in transit in other countries. It hasn't even reached the Canadian border yet, and they're already sending me a bill for customs exceeding 50% of the item's value and a $15 additional charge for their trouble. This tells me that they know they're going to be charging this before the item is even shipped. It would be different if it arrived in Canada, and then they had to send me a message saying, "Sorry, we can't release it to you because we've just discovered a thing that needs to be resolved w.r.t. customs."

[drussell]

I apologize, I wasn't clear. I'm saying that DHL is being deceptive by separating these things out. DHL knows they're going to be doing this additional work, and they know in advance that they're going to be sending you a bill for more money.

   WTF are you talking about?

How on earth is the shipping company supposed to magically know whether the item they're couriering for you is a warranty return, a box of paperwork with no commercial value or a product that will require import paperwork and potentially duties, taxes, etc....   

It's not THEIR fault...

They should simply be telling JLCPCB that the shipping cost to pass on to you includes the service fee.

That's why JLCPCB helpfully offers at least one option that already includes customs clearance, duties and taxes already done for you.  Use that option instead of complaining about your lack of knowledge surrounding import procedures.   

[drussell]

Okay. But, I was wrong about the shipment being in my country already. It's actually still in transit in other countries. It hasn't even reached the Canadian border yet, and they're already sending me a bill for customs exceeding 50% of the item's value and a $15 additional charge for their trouble.

That's awesome!

That means they're trying to get the paperwork done for you while it is still in transit so it can clear as quickly as possible when it arrives.  If you knew you were going to use a third party brokerage service or something, you need to have JLCPCB indicate that on the shipping end with the info for your 3rd party broker so they can hand all that off to them instead of doing it for you using their internal brokerage service as the default that they explicitly state.  Read the shipping terms, my friend!

This tells me that they know they're going to be charging this before the item is even shipped. It would be different if it arrived in Canada, and then they had to send me a message saying, "Sorry, we can't release it to you because we've just discovered a thing that needs to be resolved w.r.t. customs."

So you would rather wait days or weeks later to do it once it arrives in a giant logjam of packages?

Ok, whatever....  You must be on some seriously good drugs or something...   

I wouldn't even be able to ship a 12AX7 vacuum tube across the street from me via Canada Post for less than about $20.  Just because the shipping cost, landed, is several times what you pay for a discount, loss-leader PCB used to fill up otherwise incomplete panels in the FAB, you seem to think that it is an unreasonable price to pay.  I really don't believe I can concur with your assessment.

You seem to just be annoyed because it costs several times what the PCBs themselves cost in China to actually transport them half way around the globe to get them here to you.  You could go pick them up yourself in China, but I daresay that would cost you an awful lot more than what DHL is charging you to get them here on your behalf.   

[asmi]

Okay. But, I was wrong about the shipment being in my country already. It's actually still in transit in other countries. It hasn't even reached the Canadian border yet, and they're already sending me a bill for customs exceeding 50% of the item's value and a $15 additional charge for their trouble. This tells me that they know they're going to be charging this before the item is even shipped. It would be different if it arrived in Canada, and then they had to send me a message saying, "Sorry, we can't release it to you because we've just discovered a thing that needs to be resolved w.r.t. customs."

That's because they are doing the clearance in parallel with shipping, to make it less likely to be delayed on the border. But the fun part is that due to whole virus thingy, they no longer accept payments on delivery, so now you have to pay before you even have a chance to see the actual invoice (notification just tells you the total amount you've got to pay). So if you want to dispute anything there, you will have to fight it after you paid it off. And, unless the charge is ridiculously large, then it becomes a question of whether it's even worth your time to fight for a few bucks if they declared something incorrectly (brokerage fee is not disputable, they will charge it no matter what).
In the future always try using DDP options if at all possible, this way you will know the total landed cost upfront. That will come out cheaper than "traditional" DAP, and, more importantly, there guaranteed to be no nasty surprises with weird-ass costs that will suddenly show up in your invoice.

[Microdoser]

Looking on the JLCPCB order page, they make sure to split the shipping into two sections, one with pre-paid taxes (DDP) and one where '(Duty, customs and GST collected at the time of delivery)' so IMO it really is a case where Caveat Emptor applies.
I have dealt with the extra costs and hassle involved with getting a parcel through customs which is why I now always choose the much cheaper but slower EuroPacket option. Sure, it takes 2 weeks to get here but there is no rubbish regarding customs on the way and I know there will not be any surprise costs later on. Choosing to have the boards in 9-11 days after ordering compared to 12-14 days is not worth doubling the overall cost to me.

As a FYI, if ever anyone has this problem with FEDEX, I have always sent them this email and they have always waived their fee without question and only charged the import duty. Just change the bolded text to suit your position. This does not work with Royal Mail (UK) as they have a contract with excise and customs to collect a fee and they will not waiver on that. It may work on DHL, but I have not tried with them.
 
Dear FedEx,
This is in reference to invoice #XXXXXXXXXX
After having bought items from Switzerland, I understood there would be the possibility of VAT due on receiving them.
I was however surprised to see an additional section for a clearance administration charge of £12.
I of course will pay the VAT due.
However, I refuse to pay the clearance admin charge of £12, since at no point was I made aware of, nor did I agree to, any terms and conditions which clearly stated that I would be liable for any such charges.
At no point in the transaction and subsequent delivery was any contract for a clearance administration charge made between FedEx and myself.
I paid the supplier for delivery, and would expect that any international clearance fees be factored into the initial cost of such a shipment.
If you want to pursue further charges for delivery or administration or the terms upon which goods are shipped, I suggest that you take it up with the company who shipped the goods initially.
Therefore, I request that you update this invoice to reflect no admin fee, and once that has been done I’ll make immediate payment.
Please let me know when this has been done.
Kind Regards,
Microdoser
 
   

[rsjsouza]

I don't like to pay fees just like the next person, but there's a cost for everything. Also, this thread shows how some companies don't even think about dealing with end customers or low volume projects. It is a lot of flak for a few dollars.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

"Customs clearance is included with every FedEx Express international shipment, "
https://www.fedex.com/en-ca/shipping-services/service-options/international-broker-select.html

Daveismissing and the group,

I would be careful with this option. Fedex will clear the packages through customs, by providing brokerage services, but there is a reasonable charge for them doing this. On low value shipments, this charge seems disproportionate to the value of the shipment and the taxes collected. There is very little info on the Fedex website regarding these brokerage charges. I wouldn't be surprised if brokerage charges are a big profit center for Fedex.

The only safe way, is if they says 'DDP'.

Digikey, when you order from Digikey.ca, ships DDP from their warehouse in the USA. They have worked out a special rate with Fedex. They do it right.

I am just about to order from JLCPCB for the first time. I am ordering multiple boards and I will use the DDP option.

Regards,
Jay_Diddy_B

[Microdoser]

As I mentioned above, 100% of the time I have had success getting FEDEX to waive their charge by sending them the template email I posted. The import duty is still required to be paid, but you can avoid a disproportionate charge on low value items.

[wraper]

As I mentioned above, 100% of the time I have had success getting FEDEX to waive their charge by sending them the template email I posted. The import duty is still required to be paid, but you can avoid a disproportionate charge on low value items.

It's not clear if they invoiced you before or after delivery happened. If it's before, nothing stops them from telling you to sod off and not deliver anything.