Author Topic: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......  (Read 10511 times)

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Offline Smokey

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendrik_Wade_Bode
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendrik_Wade_Bode#cite_note-Van_Valkenburg-1

"Van Valkenburg, M. E. University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, "In memoriam: Hendrik W. Bode (1905-1982)", IEEE Transactions on Automatic Control, Vol. AC-29, No 3., March 1984, pp. 193–194. Quote: "Something should be said about his name. To his colleagues at Bell Laboratories and the generations of engineers that have followed, the pronunciation is boh-dee. The Bode family preferred that the original Dutch be used as boh-dah."

It doesn't rhyme with "Mode" or "Code".  Just saying :)

::EDIT::
Damn, I just realized I posted this in the PCB CAD section.  No idea how that happened.  Should probably go in general.  Sorry everyone.
Who's != Whose.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 01:39:30 am by Smokey »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2017, 04:36:39 am »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendrik_Wade_Bode
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendrik_Wade_Bode#cite_note-Van_Valkenburg-1
"Van Valkenburg, M. E. University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, "In memoriam: Hendrik W. Bode (1905-1982)", IEEE Transactions on Automatic Control, Vol. AC-29, No 3., March 1984, pp. 193–194. Quote: "Something should be said about his name. To his colleagues at Bell Laboratories and the generations of engineers that have followed, the pronunciation is boh-dee. The Bode family preferred that the original Dutch be used as boh-dah."
It doesn't rhyme with "Mode" or "Code".  Just saying :)

 ::)

This comes up every year without fail.
Van Valkenburg is wrong, or at least not fully correct.
"generations of engineers that have followed" do NOT universally pronounce it "boh-dee". You might very well do that in the United States, but the US is not the centre of the universe.
If you were raised as an engineer in Australia then you would pronounce is "Bowed" (as in "code"). That's what is used in industry here and how you are taught to pronounce it.
Welcome to the world of global language evolution.

People who say "Bowed" is "wrong", are clueless or deliberately ignorant about language evolution in the rest of the world.
Anyone who wants to be anal about it had better damn well start saying it "boh-dah" with original Dutch intonation (if any?) or STFU.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2017, 05:08:40 am »
but the US is not the centre of the universe.

Wait, WHAT?! This cannot be.
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2017, 05:11:53 am »
Every year?  While there are plenty of posts about "aluminum" and the letter "Z", I did a forum search and didn't see anyone else with this particular bit of info about Van Valkenburg quote about Bode's name.

While language can evolve, and groups of people are free to refer to things in whatever way they want, sometimes there's one right answer.  If something is named in honor of a real live dude, and that dude pronounced his name a certain way, then that's what it is. 

And I'm totally committed to saying "boh-dah" now :)
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2017, 05:36:28 am »
Here is another interesting bit of word history, which is actually relevant to electronics since the word shows up a lot with reference to sticking parts in holes.  We have probably all seen both spellings used.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/how-thru-turned-into-through

The difference is that thru-hole parts were not named after Mr. Jonathan Thru.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2017, 06:52:33 am »
Every year?  While there are plenty of posts about "aluminum" and the letter "Z", I did a forum search and didn't see anyone else with this particular bit of info about Van Valkenburg quote about Bode's name.

Happens every single time I mention it in a video. People trot out Wikipedia like it's the golden tablets.

Quote
While language can evolve, and groups of people are free to refer to things in whatever way they want, sometimes there's one right answer.  If something is named in honor of a real live dude, and that dude pronounced his name a certain way, then that's what it is. 

That's what it is to him, everyone else is free to pronounce it however they like. When a persons name becomes more than just their name by virtue of it becoming an industry term that everyone learns in engineering school, then you can't stop it evolving over time. We are talking the 1930's here, more than 4 generations!
[/i]Perhaps you support the C-16 bill in Canada where people will be forced by rule of law to address people with the correct pronoun?

I will continue to pronounce it the way I was taught and the way it's said by almost everyone in the industry in Australia and many other countries. I don't expect the Yanks to change to "boh-dah", just as no one should expect Australians and others to change from "Bowed"

Quote
And I'm totally committed to saying "boh-dah" now :)

Great, your choice, more power to you, just don't expect others to.

Rout vs root anyone?
Vi-Ah vs Vee-ah?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 06:55:53 am by EEVblog »
 

Elf

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2017, 07:26:56 am »
[...] To his colleagues at Bell Laboratories and the generations of engineers that have followed [...]
[...] You might very well do that in the United States, but the US is not the centre of the universe. [...]

No comment on the pronunciation of the name, and the U.S. certainly isn't the center (or centre) of the universe, but the old Bell Labs should sure make the short list of places that could be! It seems like the pure volume of innovation that came out of that place is almost singlehandedly responsible for the world of electronics and communications as we know it today.

Telephone networks with mechanical through electronic switching, leading into computer networking, all the Shannon/Hartley/Nyquist information theory stuff, UNIX, C/C++, the transistor, lasers, CCDs, solar cells; almost an endless list.
 

Offline scatha

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2017, 08:27:33 am »
I don't know, I went to Uni in Oz and everyone pronounced it boh-dee including the control and system identification guys. It probably didn't hurt that Point Break had just come out, though. Booooodhiiiiiii!!!
 

Offline Noize

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2017, 06:49:08 pm »
 All things being said, it doesn't bode well for us.
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2017, 07:19:26 pm »
It probably didn't hurt that Point Break had just come out, though. Booooodhiiiiiii!!!

Then there was the Buddhist satellite communications engineer who spent a lot of time with his network analyzer.  He liked the Bode-Sat-View....
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2017, 08:13:17 pm »
Every year?  While there are plenty of posts about "aluminum" and the letter "Z", I did a forum search and didn't see anyone else with this particular bit of info about Van Valkenburg quote about Bode's name.

Happens every single time I mention it in a video. People trot out Wikipedia like it's the golden tablets.

Quote
While language can evolve, and groups of people are free to refer to things in whatever way they want, sometimes there's one right answer.  If something is named in honor of a real live dude, and that dude pronounced his name a certain way, then that's what it is. 

That's what it is to him, everyone else is free to pronounce it however they like. When a persons name becomes more than just their name by virtue of it becoming an industry term that everyone learns in engineering school, then you can't stop it evolving over time. We are talking the 1930's here, more than 4 generations!
[/i]Perhaps you support the C-16 bill in Canada where people will be forced by rule of law to address people with the correct pronoun?

I will continue to pronounce it the way I was taught and the way it's said by almost everyone in the industry in Australia and many other countries. I don't expect the Yanks to change to "boh-dah", just as no one should expect Australians and others to change from "Bowed"

Quote
And I'm totally committed to saying "boh-dah" now :)

Great, your choice, more power to you, just don't expect others to.

Rout vs root anyone?
Vi-Ah vs Vee-ah?

I will apologize in advance for keeping this going since it most certainly is arguing over nothing.. but that's what the internet is for right?

So in this case the Wikipedia page actually sites a reference, so it's not just some random dude writing stuff on the interwebs it's actually a primary source with information about how the dude pronounced his name.  Don't try to discredit the primary source just because we got there through a Wikipedia page.

And this has nothing to do with legal requirements or language evolution, it has to do with respect for the guy that created something.  The thing was named in honor of a real guy and therefore to honor the guy you should pronounce his name correctly (or at least recognize you are pronouncing it incorrectly).  You don't have to do it, and if you don't do it you can still use his creation and people will probably know what you are talking about, but you are disrespecting Bode a bit by saying it doesn't matter at all.

Dave is the king of admitting he can't pronounce people's names, so I'm not sure why he's taking such a hard line on this.  Every time you say "Bode" you are pronouncing a dude's name.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2017, 12:58:49 am »
I don't really care what is correct, but I want to argue against a flip "well it is just language drift".  Simple language drift is why Italians and Spanish and French no longer speak Latin and can't talk easily with each other.  Engineers should be able to speak with each other.

So rather than voting to support the drifted pronunciation in the US or Australia or wherever, the choice that is hardest to argue with on any basis other than "my way is better than yours" is the pronunciation of the name.  I will try to do that henceforth.
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2017, 01:08:46 am »
who's = who is
whose = belongs
*Except AC/DC adapters on eBay. Avoid them all!
 

Offline timb

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Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2017, 01:23:44 am »
I do tend to agree that Dave is on the wrong side of this one. It's someone's name, so there is one correct pronunciation: The way they said it. Period.

That said, it's not really a big deal. I mean, I pronounced it as Bode (rhymes with code) for many, many years, because the first time I was exposed to it was in books as a kid. It wasn't until much later that I decided to investigate these mysterious Boh-Dee Plots and find out if they were related to Bode Plots!

Now I pronounce it the correct way. It's still a hard habit to break.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic; e.g., Cheez Whiz, Hot Dogs and RF.
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2017, 01:33:14 am »
So... Next up: Gauss.
*Except AC/DC adapters on eBay. Avoid them all!
 

Offline The Soulman

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2017, 01:35:40 am »
Don't know what the fuzz is all about.
It's bode in dutch and that appears to be correct way of pronouncing it.  :-DD

btw: my son is called Hendrik  :-+  ;)
 
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Offline helius

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2017, 01:38:36 am »
You're fighting a losing battle. Most people couldn't pronounce "Vincent Van Gogh" if they wanted to.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2017, 01:38:41 am »
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/don't-reply-just-vote-please/

Let's see which one do you prefer?
I personally read it as boh-dee, and so far I've never seen anyone in person reads it as boud. People living in the other hemisphere may have different POV.
 

Offline sleemanj

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2017, 01:53:00 am »
I do tend to agree that Dave is on the wrong side of this one. It's someone's name, so there is one correct pronunciation: The way they said it. Period.


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Offline Neganur

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2017, 07:42:37 am »
Buddha plot imho  ;)

usually defuses the discussion with a smile
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2017, 09:53:56 am »
I do tend to agree that Dave is on the wrong side of this one. It's someone's name, so there is one correct pronunciation: The way they said it. Period.

 :palm:
You mean the way his family pronounced their own name, or the way that generations of Americans have butchered it into Boh-Dee?

Quote
Now I pronounce it the correct way. It's still a hard habit to break.

No, you don't, you are simply pronouncing it the American way. You are NOT pronouncing it the way his family pronounced their name.

You have absolutely no position to argue from here. Either you have to pronounce it the way his family did or you have to accept all evolutions of it.
 


Offline Smokey

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2017, 10:32:58 am »
It's 2am in part of the world.  Let the morning people vote before you call it over!
and... If you are wrong, just because everyone else may be wrong too doesn't make you less wrong...

Boh-dah for the win!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2017, 10:39:24 am »
It's 2am in part of the world.  Let the morning people vote before you call it over!
and... If you are wrong, just because everyone else may be wrong too doesn't make you less wrong...

It doesn't matter who "wins", the point is that the Boh-dee fanboys think it's THE way to say it and it's how "everyone" says it.
Even if the results ends up 20% of community pronounce it Bowed/Boud that's still a huge number of engineers.
The poll backs up similar results from years of having debated this, it's ballpark half and half.
The Yanks get quite emabarresed when they realise the rest of the world is bigger and different than they are  :P
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2017, 11:02:02 am »
The whole point of the thread was that no one is winning because everyone was wrong... boh-DUH!  This fun fact turned out not so fun I guess.

And why does it have to be a nationalistic thing?  No one was bashing Australia here.  Australians have just as much a right to mispronounce a guys name as Americans do. 
 


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