EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => PCB/EDA/CAD => Topic started by: ludzinc on April 15, 2015, 02:46:36 am
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Hi All,
Just got this email from Max Clemmons from Altium:
Hi,
I'm excited to tell you that we've just released the newest CircuitMaker beta build to the testing group. With this new build, the component workflow has moved entirely to the Libraries panel, so you can search for and create components from a single, convenient location! Check out the forum post for all the details and an installer (if you need a fresh install):
(link removed - need a closed beta account to access the forum at the moment)
Also, we are releasing you from your NDA, so please go ahead and share your CircuitMaker experience with the world!
I'll write up my impressions of the new beta over the next few days and will post when ready.
But for the curious:
1. All the issues I see with Circuit Studio I also see with Circuit Maker
(see here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/altium/altium-circuit-studio/msg602360/#msg602360 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/altium/altium-circuit-studio/msg602360/#msg602360))
2. The focus is that you use the footprints / parts that are developed by the community and are available through Octopart. Not a bad idea if you ask me.
BUT
3. You CANNOT make a custom part that isn't associated with Octopart. This ruins things like Edge Connectors, Programming Headers (i.e. Tag Connect), fiducials, testpoints and RF coils / antenna that are essentially pure PCB partwork. This is a noisy point on the closed beta forum and I get the feeling the developers are pushing back against their corporate masters on this but are currently on the back foot.
I reckon when the open beta is released in May the same corporate masters will get flooded with feedback around this!
That said, it's good, I like it but I won't use it seriously until the Octopart limitation is lifted.
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That sounds like a crippling game-ending limitation! :palm:
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Can't you just pick a random octopart part and associate it with your own arbitrary and non related symbol and footprint?
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^ Exactly the kind of policy, that would lead to exactly that ^ kind of polluted library-making... People will find a way around it, because they have to, and it will be ugly. Not that free/open libraries have even exactly been bastions of consistency and accuracy... but man, what a mess.
I'm waiting for a good deal, either when Altium comes back down again (ha, yeah right) or when CM gets better... but it's not looking like a buy.
Tim
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ugh, just let CM sink already... :palm:
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Can't you just pick a random octopart part and associate it with your own arbitrary and non related symbol and footprint?
^ Exactly the kind of policy, that would lead to exactly that ^ kind of polluted library-making... People will find a way around it, because they have to, and it will be ugly. Not that free/open libraries have even exactly been bastions of consistency and accuracy... but man, what a mess.
I'm waiting for a good deal, either when Altium comes back down again (ha, yeah right) or when CM gets better... but it's not looking like a buy.
Tim
This is almost quoting the forum verbatim.
ugh, just let CM sink already... :palm:
The rest of CM (imho) is nice and slick and could be a winner, even if you had to pay for 'local libraries'. Yes I'm wearing my heart on my sleve and hope Altium get the message and change this restriction. So when the open beta comes out, sign up and give them the feedback!
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Wow, how would Altium ever think that was a good idea? In addition to the already aforementioned issues, there's simple components like headers. If I need a 1x6 pin header on my board, I just use a generic pattern for it. I have a box full of 1x40 breakaway headers that I simply snap to size and use. I don't generally even add a specific manufacturer's part number to the BOM, either. It's such a generic thing, you know? The same applies for SMD resistors and capacitors in a lot of cases.
Unless it's a critical part, I don't give a shit what 0603 0.1uF decoupling caps are used.
Sent from my Tablet
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Wow, how would Altium ever think that was a good idea?
Who said they do?
They need to come with something that will not cannibalize their revenue products so expect crippleware by design.
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The thing they're most afraid of is that the users of Altium Designer will move away from Altium's very expensive and large corporation oriented product to their cheaper products or even to the free one if it's adequate for their needs. And of course you don't want that since you'll lose revenue because lower or no subscription fees.
If they had figured out like years and years ago that the big program must be divided into smaller chunks so that it's possible to get the cheap / free options when you start out, then add components that you need when your company and needs grow. !BUT! there has to be an end to the current subscription model because if people can't go backwards when needed (company gets in financial trouble or person using it is in a pinch) they must be able to stop paying the subscription or downgrade their product without any concern of having to pay more or a penalty for doing so. Just the loss of capability.
If there's a risk that you'll get stuck to the subscription and they keep jacking up the price of that subscription every year, it won't make the software very enticing now does it?
AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'VE ALREADY DONE!
They have jacked up the price of the subscription up and up and up and ultimately people will leave it for other solutions because they simply cannot afford it anymore and they can't go backwards by dropping features from their package that they don't need. And people know that Altium does this, so it makes it really difficult to recommend their products to other companies unless you think you have endless budget for a CAD program.
Altium is doing an awful job of treating their customers like milk cows, and no matter how good their tools are, it can't last like this for long.
So that's why they can't give you a tool for free that is good and usable (thus the stupid restrictions in the free one), because they can't understand that their current pricing and software model is broken from the ground up and must be fixed for them to have a healthy customer ecosystem and successful business in the long run.
And sooner they realize this, sooner they can compete with the threat that KiCad poses. and KiCad will not stop until it is the best tool out there and it's just a matter of time now since they got a flame under the kettle with the CERN thing.
Fix your pricing and software model and you'll have customers that want to use your products readily.
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Would love to see some screenshots or videos if you're allowed to post em!
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Would love to see some screenshots or videos if you're allowed to post em!
Travelling for work at the moment, hope to get something up over the weekend.
However I got this reply for Max today:
Your point about making parts not associated with Octopart has definitely been one of the biggest topics of discussion for us. Several people have told us that creating parts outside Octopart is essential, and I believe this will be a feature in CircuitMaker soon enough. It just hasn't quite made it into the software yet.[\b]
If true, this would tourn out to be a 'good thing'.
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Sorry it took longer than expected - but here's my impression of Circuit Maker (up to Beta 3 now), with included pricing options.
http://ludzinc.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/circuit-maker-beta-testing.html (http://ludzinc.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/circuit-maker-beta-testing.html)
Have at it!
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here's my impression of Circuit Maker (up to Beta 3 now)
Thanks for spending the time putting up all the screen shots & for your observations.
I wish they had done the deal to use Digikey parts instead of Octopart.
Like you, I'm not interested in using this product. It will be interesting to see how amateur users/those with plenty of time to waste will take up the "free" (or almost free) offerings.
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I wish they had done the deal to use Digikey parts instead of Octopart.
Octopart is a search engine. You can search Digikey parts in Octoparts...
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Octopart is a search engine. You can search Digikey parts in Octoparts...
Thanks. It nice to know I can learn something new everyday :)
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But the real deal breaker? You must have an Octopart part to use - things that you need on a PCB that are not parts include Fiducials, Edge Connectors, Programming Headers, Custom RF coils, mounting and tooling holes are things you cannot make in Circuit Maker.
Sadly, that's a deal breaker for me.
That's terrible. Who's the target audience for this?
I use Altium 14 at work and it would've been nice to have a free version of Altium for personal projects, but with those limitations I much rather learn KiCAD.
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But the real deal breaker? You must have an Octopart part to use - things that you need on a PCB that are not parts include Fiducials, Edge Connectors, Programming Headers, Custom RF coils, mounting and tooling holes are things you cannot make in Circuit Maker.
Sadly, that's a deal breaker for me.
What a useless piece of shit.
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I'm not sure this is an unreasonable limitation for the average free user. I'm not sure I've not seen many if any hobbyist boards using edge connectors. Headers/Mounting holes, etc can all be done with vias well enough but you won't get the schematic symmetry. This is a minor issue at best for those cases. That realistically leaves custom RF coils, and that's able to be worked around. Octopart, theoretically, has every part that you can buy given it's just a database of part seller's items.
I'd be more worried about usability and how they plan to make people okay with just the cloud storage. Nothing wrong with cloud storage, but they need a proven backbone. Portability is problematic too, but I'd wager there's less of issue of Altium dispersing as a company overnight.
I completely agree with why professionals find fault with it so far, but then again this is an entry level product for them.
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Making headers and mounting holes with vias is a pathetic hack. Sure, you could live with the limitations if you had to. But why would you? This product provides absolutely bloody nothing over its competition, and is a pain in the ass to boot! There is plenty of free and almost-free software that lets you do all those things without bodging them. The only people I can see actually preferring this software over Literally Anything Else are people with a fetish for pain...
Altium should stick to what they know best: overpriced, buggy software for professionals and stupid business plans... (oh, wait...)
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Can't you just pick a random octopart part and associate it with your own arbitrary and non related symbol and footprint?
Yep... everyone doing that exact thing will spell the end of this program
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i just got my invite for the public beta. downloaded installed.
what;s this 'i can;t make my own parts blabla ? it works just perfectly fine for me.
click library panel.
select ciiva library.
make sure search field is blank.
right below that it will say :Can;t find part you;re looking for ? Build your own.
and off you go. i just created symbols for some banana jacks and switches. works perfectly fine. stuff is stored in your 'Favorites Library'
in the library :right click in the list and simply select : build new component. done.
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Even using Digikey instead of Octopart would suck. There are many brands which Digikey doesn't sell. For example Coilcraft.
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Even using Digikey instead of Octopart would suck. There are many brands which Digikey doesn't sell. For example Coilcraft.
you are not tied to what you can find on octopart. i just created some fully custom schematic symbols and footprints for a part that doesn't exist ( a mounting hole that will slide over a front panel mounted banana jack so the nut of the banana jack makes contact with the board. mounting hole has copper features , an aligment marker and a bunch of other stuff.) works perfectly fine. you are not tied to what you can find out there. so if you need ot make an edge connector you can do this. there does not need to be a link to a physical part.
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Free Electron,
Based on your preliminary investigations, what would you say are the biggest/most critical limitations of CircuitMaker compared to Altium Explorer?
Thanks in advance.
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things that irk me a bit :
-shortcut keys. most are missing , i hate the endless menu clickodrome.
-file compatibility. it would have been nice to be able to pull in my existing libraries. i sorta understand this since they want to avoid people using the free version to do the big boy stuff.
i've only played with it for an hour so i haven't really explored it yet.
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Yes I noticed the lack of shortcut keys, funny thing is DesignSpark which is free has a very similar set of shortcut keys.
I have been able to import libraries into Circuit Maker and view them, however they can not be added to an existing project and used.
On the plus side if you have a copy of designer handy you can open and existing designer file and save/export it as an older file type and then import it into CM, I did have an issue with a polygon not playing nicely after import and the nice slots I had in my board got converted to holes.
Overall it seems a move which is sort of in the right direction, just a bit off course.
It took me 3 - 4 goes to get a new component to come up in the vault which is a bit off putting, thought it would be fairly quick to save it and have it available for my schematic but it took me several attempts over 2 days before it appeared, maybe it did it wrong the 1st few times?
Greg.P
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Can you customize the UI to add shortcuts (let alone scripts) or is it TS?
Tim
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Sorry it took longer than expected - but here's my impression of Circuit Maker (up to Beta 3 now), with included pricing options.
http://ludzinc.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/circuit-maker-beta-testing.html (http://ludzinc.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/circuit-maker-beta-testing.html)
Have at it!
Thanks for the nice job. Finally got an idea how it looks like.
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i just got my invite for the public beta. downloaded installed.
what;s this 'i can;t make my own parts blabla ? it works just perfectly fine for me.
click library panel.
select ciiva library.
make sure search field is blank.
right below that it will say :Can;t find part you;re looking for ? Build your own.
and off you go. i just created symbols for some banana jacks and switches. works perfectly fine. stuff is stored in your 'Favorites Library'
in the library :right click in the list and simply select : build new component. done.
Just upgraded to Beta 1.04 (last closed version was 1.03) and had a quick tinker. And I must say that the Altium guys have taken the feedback well and truly on board. The improvements I'm happy with are:
1. You can make custom, non-Ciiva (was Octopart) parts. Woo hoo!
2. You can define your PCB from selected objects!
What I still hate:
1. You cannot import DWG/DXF files into the PCB editor. This is needed to make 2. above very useful!
2. No local cache (as far as I can tell) if your files. Start up cold without an internet connection, and you can't do jack.
3. When you make parts, they seem to disappear. You have to manually refresh your favourites library!
Updated blog post coming soon!
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Sorry it took longer than expected - but here's my impression of Circuit Maker (up to Beta 3 now), with included pricing options.
http://ludzinc.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/circuit-maker-beta-testing.html (http://ludzinc.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/circuit-maker-beta-testing.html)
Have at it!
Thanks for posting the snapshots.
I am looking at the purchasing options. If I design for example a 4 layers board, do I need to pay extra only for the duration of the active design or forever? What will happen if I stop paying after completing the design, will the design be deleted? Become read only?
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OK, so it's $60/year for a "fully-optioned" license of Circuit Maker, correct? That seems spectacularly cheap. Almost too good to be true.
Are the size/nets/layer limitations on the"fully-optioned" package:
8-layers
250x250mm board area
350 nets
350 components
1000 private projects
Any limitations on the number of ground/power planes on a single layer?
#Pins limitations?
I'd be happy to pay more to store files locally. I'd also pay more to have access to Altium's pre-fab parts libraries.
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Sorry it took longer than expected - but here's my impression of Circuit Maker (up to Beta 3 now), with included pricing options.
http://ludzinc.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/circuit-maker-beta-testing.html (http://ludzinc.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/circuit-maker-beta-testing.html)
Have at it!
Thanks for posting the snapshots.
I am looking at the purchasing options. If I design for example a 4 layers board, do I need to pay extra only for the duration of the active design or forever? What will happen if I stop paying after completing the design, will the design be deleted? Become read only?
My old blog post? Fergeddaboudit!
From the forums this morning:
(From Dan Fernsebner of Altium)
We originally stated we were going to put design limits on CircuitMaker. After much discussion we felt that was not the right position and a bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Our focus is on the open hardware market and we feel that free should be free!
There are no limits to board size, component count, layers, or net connections! The final version of CircuitMaker will also include a SPICE simulator. Spread the word, tell the world, and help grow the community!
We look forward to the amazing electronics people contribute and the evolution of these designs as users collaborate.
And no - there is no catch! ;)
Kind regards,
Dan
So no limit on board sizes, net count component count. WOW!
In other news - I was *wrong* about not being able to import DWG/DXF into the pcb editor. The import menu lists "AutoCAD Schematic" (just like in beta 1.03, so I gave up trying) but in Beta 1.04 (this current release) the import into pcb works. It's just a bug with a misslabelled menu. Woot!
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More news from the forums:
We will make changes to the shortcuts. Based on the way the ribbon menu works it wouldn't make sense to have the same shortcuts as Altium Designer - things like VF for view fit in Altium Designer doesn't fit/match CircuitMaker menu structure. We are currently evaluating the most commonly used functions and do intend to assign keys that make sense to these functions. Some examples (these are just examples and not definite)
N - Place Net
L - Place Label
B - Place Bus
R - Route
RM - Multi-track Routing
I know Altium Designer users want the same hotkeys, but you have to remember this is a different product. We are open to suggestions from the user community.
Hotkeys. Love Hotkeys!
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So, just installed the beta... As someone who has never used Altium before, I've got to say, CM is confusing as fuck. The ribbon based UI doesn't help things (maybe it would be different if they made it context sensitive, like MS originally intended), but as of right now it takes up a lot of screen space and doesn't seem to offer anything useful.
The useful stuff is tucked away in a mess of sidebars and floating windows that seem to pin, unpin, close and open themselves arbitrarily.
I managed to get into 3D mode, but can't figure out how to rotate the board around. (That *is* possible, right?)
On the upside, it imported a few complex PCBs from DipTrace flawlessly. (Exported in P-CAD ASCII.)
Sent from my Tablet
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I managed to get into 3D mode, but can't figure out how to rotate the board around. (That *is* possible, right?)
Right click+drag: pan
[Ctrl] + Right click+drag: zoom
[Shift] + right click+drag: rotation (can also select rotation axis on the the ball that shows up)
Never used altium either, so I don't know if left click is supposed to have some navigation features.
Btw you can switch between 2d and 3d mode with [2] and [3].
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As promised, some info on the open beta.
http://ludzinc.blogspot.com.au/2015/05/circuit-maker-open-beta.html (http://ludzinc.blogspot.com.au/2015/05/circuit-maker-open-beta.html)
Focus is on part creation.
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I downloaded and installed it before I went to work.
I had 2 minutes to play with it. Why can't I create a new project call "test", or "test1", or "test11", or "test111", etc
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Tip, spend more than two minutes on it. I got good answers when I asked in the CircuitMaker forum.
I would guess somone else in the "Community" already have created projects with those names :P :palm:
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Doco from CM themselves:
http://documentation.circuitmaker.com/display/CMAK/Component+Management+in+CircuitMaker (http://documentation.circuitmaker.com/display/CMAK/Component+Management+in+CircuitMaker)
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Tip, spend more than two minutes on it. I got good answers when I asked in the CircuitMaker forum.
I would guess somone else in the "Community" already have created projects with those names :P :palm:
I figured that. But what a silly limitation. What are the odds 2 people on this planet are going to create a project with the same name? I hope "Power supply" already been taken?
Oooh! New money making scheme. CM project name squatting!
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Yeah, it's dumb. Project names need to be individual to each user, not the entire community.
Sent from my Tablet
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I had 2 minutes to play with it. Why can't I create a new project call "test", or "test1", or "test11", or "test111", etc
Someone else in the world has a project with the same name.
I'm not kidding. Because of the "cloud community" aspect of the product, you can't share a project name with someone else.
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Yeah, it's dumb. Project names need to be individual to each user, not the entire community.
Yes, why that's not possible is beyond me.
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I had 2 minutes to play with it. Why can't I create a new project call "test", or "test1", or "test11", or "test111", etc
Someone else in the world has a project with the same name.
I'm not kidding. Because of the "cloud community" aspect of the product, you can't share a project name with someone else.
Yeah, it's dumb. Project names need to be individual to each user, not the entire community.
Yes, why that's not possible is beyond me.
devil's advocate: If you name your project properly it won't collide with anyone else's name. Just don't use overly generic project names... "test" is not descriptive. "power supply" is not descriptive. Name the thing what it actually is and does and chances are you won't collide. the easiest way around it is to just prefix (or suffix) the project name with your nickname or something. "Rigby_test" for example. No one else is going to use that.
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devil's advocate: If you name your project properly it won't collide with anyone else's name. Just don't use overly generic project names... "test" is not descriptive. "power supply" is not descriptive. Name the thing what it actually is and does and chances are you won't collide. the easiest way around it is to just prefix (or suffix) the project name with your nickname or something. "Rigby_test" for example. No one else is going to use that.
This is a workaround, not a justification.
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More news from the forums:
We will make changes to the shortcuts. Based on the way the ribbon menu works it wouldn't make sense to have the same shortcuts as Altium Designer - things like VF for view fit in Altium Designer doesn't fit/match CircuitMaker menu structure. We are currently evaluating the most commonly used functions and do intend to assign keys that make sense to these functions. Some examples (these are just examples and not definite)
N - Place Net
L - Place Label
B - Place Bus
R - Route
RM - Multi-track Routing
I know Altium Designer users want the same hotkeys, but you have to remember this is a different product. We are open to suggestions from the user community.
Hotkeys. Love Hotkeys!
..and surely you can reassign the hotkeys, can't you..?
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devil's advocate: If you name your project properly it won't collide with anyone else's name. Just don't use overly generic project names... "test" is not descriptive. "power supply" is not descriptive. Name the thing what it actually is and does and chances are you won't collide. the easiest way around it is to just prefix (or suffix) the project name with your nickname or something. "Rigby_test" for example. No one else is going to use that.
This is a workaround, not a justification.
how do you search a natively open ecosystem if everything is named "test" and "power supply?" suppose you use a few of those power supply designs? how do you differentiate them?
ah nevermind i'm done arguing. I don't understand why engineers, of all people, flip their shit over compromises. EVERYTHING in engineering is a compromise between time, cost, reliability, and complexity, among other things. You can't have it all. You just can't.
So, the problem is that this new thing isn't like your favorite thing. So what? "I'LL COMPLAIN ABOUT IT" <-- that's the answer? Seriously? for an ENGINEER?
Fucking hell, I do not understand people. Most people are just consuming resources for no net gain to society, or even themselves, and I'm sick of it.
I'm not talking about you in particular, Zapta. I don't understand why there's such a fuss over this. don't like it, don't use it. simple. complaint without the ability to make a change is wasted energy, just like this post right here, so go ahead, future reader, fail to read this entire thing and declare me a moron.
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Rigby,
I'm complaining because I was hoping that CM would be a good stepping stone for me into AD eventually. I was hoping that they would have a package that was reasonably priced to get me started and that would allow me to import my work into Designer at a later date. Instead, they've gone totally free / open source, which is a stepping stone to nowhere.
I also have an issue with waste and layoffs. Developing a CAD package with no revenue stream equals waste, which always leads to people losing their jobs. This whole CM thing is an empty promise and fucked up mess in which everyone loses.
I guess I'm glad that I finally know, since I'll finalize a purchasing decision that I've been putting off for while.
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I did some corporate BS training a few months back. They claim only 1 in 20 people complain. Complaints are how most companies get feedback. I think project names that must be unique with in the community is a bad idea. I complained. The world continues to go round.
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I did some corporate BS training a few months back. They claim only 1 in 20 people complain. Complaints are how most companies get feedback. I think project names that must be unique with in the community is a bad idea. I complained. The world continues to go round.
1 in 20 is probably for a valid reason, but the ratio is higher for other complaints that have to do on wants instead of actual needs for the whole.
CM has more than 1000 users for example so if you see 50 complaints does that mean that they only have 1000 users? nah, some are valid some are not.
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I'm not talking about you in particular, Zapta. I don't understand why there's such a fuss over this. don't like it, don't use it. simple. complaint without the ability to make a change is wasted energy, just like this post right here, so go ahead, future reader, fail to read this entire thing and declare me a moron.
Hi Rigby, negative feedback is just as valid as positive feedback.
You wouldn't complain about posts here how great this product is but you complain about negative opinions.
Your post seems to me as attempt to censor this discussion, presenting opinions you don't like as illegitimate.
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devil's advocate: If you name your project properly it won't collide with anyone else's name. Just don't use overly generic project names... "test" is not descriptive. "power supply" is not descriptive. Name the thing what it actually is and does and chances are you won't collide. the easiest way around it is to just prefix (or suffix) the project name with your nickname or something. "Rigby_test" for example. No one else is going to use that.
This is a workaround, not a justification.
how do you search a natively open ecosystem if everything is named "test" and "power supply?" suppose you use a few of those power supply designs? how do you differentiate them?
ah nevermind i'm done arguing. I don't understand why engineers, of all people, flip their shit over compromises. EVERYTHING in engineering is a compromise between time, cost, reliability, and complexity, among other things. You can't have it all. You just can't.
So, the problem is that this new thing isn't like your favorite thing. So what? "I'LL COMPLAIN ABOUT IT" <-- that's the answer? Seriously? for an ENGINEER?
Fucking hell, I do not understand people. Most people are just consuming resources for no net gain to society, or even themselves, and I'm sick of it.
I'm not talking about you in particular, Zapta. I don't understand why there's such a fuss over this. don't like it, don't use it. simple. complaint without the ability to make a change is wasted energy, just like this post right here, so go ahead, future reader, fail to read this entire thing and declare me a moron.
Nobody's flipping shit, don't be a prat. We (or some of us) just think CircuitMaker is silly and useless.
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I'm not talking about you in particular, Zapta. I don't understand why there's such a fuss over this. don't like it, don't use it. simple. complaint without the ability to make a change is wasted energy, just like this post right here, so go ahead, future reader, fail to read this entire thing and declare me a moron.
Hi Rigby, negative feedback is just as valid as positive feedback.
You wouldn't complain about posts here how great this product is but you complain about negative opinions.
Your post seems to me as attempt to censor this discussion, presenting opinions you don't like as illegitimate.
My life is filled with people who talk themselves out of everything good for them. I'm really tired of it.
My personal opinion is that I haven't used Circuit Maker enough to have a valid opinion, yet. I was a beta tester, and I used it for weeks before I was even allowed to talk about it.
There are literally thousands of people in the world who can tell someone that "X" isn't an option, or that "Y" can't be done. It pisses me off when people do it to themselves.
Nevermind. Nothing is ever good enough for you people and everything new sucks. I get it, now. You're all delicate little individuals who all have the right to free applications custom built for your own specific workflow and your own specific needs, and anything that falls short is completely irredeemable, and worth exactly nothing. Got it.
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Nevermind. Nothing is ever good enough for you people and everything new sucks. I get it, now. You're all delicate little individuals who all have the right to free applications custom built for your own specific workflow and your own specific needs, and anything that falls short is completely irredeemable, and worth exactly nothing. Got it.
We don't judge it by some ideal reference, we judge it by comparing to competing products.
Eagle runs on my OS of choice and allows me to control my files. That's elementary.
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...
I don't understand why engineers, of all people, flip their shit over compromises. EVERYTHING in engineering is a compromise between time, cost, reliability, and complexity, among other things. You can't have it all. You just can't.
So, the problem is that this new thing isn't like your favorite thing. So what? "I'LL COMPLAIN ABOUT IT" <-- that's the answer? Seriously? for an ENGINEER?
it is actually easy to understand. You just have to remember that, despite what they call themselves, most people here are NOT engineers.
devil's advocate: If you name your project properly it won't collide with anyone else's name. Just don't use overly generic project names... "test" is not descriptive. "power supply" is not descriptive. Name the thing what it actually is and does and chances are you won't collide. the easiest way around it is to just prefix (or suffix) the project name with your nickname or something. "Rigby_test" for example. No one else is going to use that.
They should probably place "OwnUserName_" as default prefix for all new projects. Had they done that from the beginning, I bet no one would have cared.
I don't care if project names have to be unique. I just hope they are not using project names as unique identifier. That would be dumb and could be the source of unnecessary limitations in project management operations.
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1. You can make custom, non-Ciiva (was Octopart) parts. Woo hoo!
2. You can define your PCB from selected objects!
Thanks for the update. I finally got a chance and gave it a try. It's critical that the tool allows custom component, though Ciiva library is a good start (quite like the lifecycle status bar and possible substitutes, http://ciiva.com/part/lm339n-1152799 (http://ciiva.com/part/lm339n-1152799)).
As the Beta version, I wouldn't complain too much and hope for some quick improvement in a not too distant future. I am seriously thinking of switching the tool to circuitmaker for my students.
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I'm not talking about you in particular, Zapta. I don't understand why there's such a fuss over this. don't like it, don't use it. simple. complaint without the ability to make a change is wasted energy, just like this post right here, so go ahead, future reader, fail to read this entire thing and declare me a moron.
Hi Rigby, negative feedback is just as valid as positive feedback.
You wouldn't complain about posts here how great this product is but you complain about negative opinions.
Your post seems to me as attempt to censor this discussion, presenting opinions you don't like as illegitimate.
My life is filled with people who talk themselves out of everything good for them. I'm really tired of it.
My personal opinion is that I haven't used Circuit Maker enough to have a valid opinion, yet. I was a beta tester, and I used it for weeks before I was even allowed to talk about it.
There are literally thousands of people in the world who can tell someone that "X" isn't an option, or that "Y" can't be done. It pisses me off when people do it to themselves.
Nevermind. Nothing is ever good enough for you people and everything new sucks. I get it, now. You're all delicate little individuals who all have the right to free applications custom built for your own specific workflow and your own specific needs, and anything that falls short is completely irredeemable, and worth exactly nothing. Got it.
No, that's not it at all and nobody is saying this.
This is SPARTA BETA!!! The idea is to give complaints/constructive criticism/bug reports to make the software better. That's exactly what we're doing.
Despite what Google thinks, betas aren't finished products.
Sent from my Tablet
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News from the CM Forum - Looks like CM is going to include CircuitHub and Oshpark integration.
13 hours ago by Dan Fernsebner / ALTIUM / UNITED STATES
Reply|Quote
Post ID: 597960
Jay,
Funny your requesting such a thing as we are in the process of completing the final integration with CircuitHub. There will be Fabricate" or "Make It" buttons within CM and on the CM website under releases (see screen shot) that will upload the design to CircuitHub and go through the normal process of analyzing the design, producing the BOM, and issuing a quote based on board quantity and delivery time frame. The other intent is we will be able to flag all parts in the Ciiva library that have gone through a successful fabrication. A component that has gone through a successful fab will be given a part "weight". The fabrication weight will be one factor of the part rating algorithm that we are creating. This new part rating should give users high confidence when selecting various components. We will also include PCB images of the final boards made by CircuitHub as part of the project. Depending upon how the project is licensed it will give other users the ability to produce the same design from the projects page if they choose to do so. (See screen shot of new project page mockup - note this may not be how the final page looks)
We should be entering the initial closed beta in the coming weeks. We want the new functionality to go through a small set of testers first to ensure the workflow is solid before releasing to the open beta community. If you would like to be part of this closed beta let me know.
To ensure everyone - we will not be locking CM to any specific fabricator. Those that want to etch their own boards, use their own machines, or go to any fabricator/assembler they want; we will always support this. Our intent is to make the concept to creation process as easy as possible. There are many new Makers who don't know where to go or who to use. We will also be adding OshPark as a secondary option shortly.
Kind regards,
Dan
This is big.
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Big? :=\
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That's awesome news Ludzinc.
The first fabricator that pops out might get my first CM order if the price is right :)
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I'm not talking about you in particular, Zapta. I don't understand why there's such a fuss over this. don't like it, don't use it. simple. complaint without the ability to make a change is wasted energy, just like this post right here, so go ahead, future reader, fail to read this entire thing and declare me a moron.
Altium have asked for feedback, that includes complaints about the way it works the approach they are taking.
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I did some corporate BS training a few months back. They claim only 1 in 20 people complain. Complaints are how most companies get feedback.
Altium are famous for only hearing feedback they want to hear. Deliberately wording customer polls to reinforce a direction they want to go in etc.
See no evil, hear no evil should have been the company motto.
Things seems to have a changed for the better since the board shakeup though.
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Altium are famous for only hearing feedback they want to hear. Deliberately wording customer polls to reinforce a direction they want to go in etc.
See no evil, hear no evil should have been the company motto.
Things seems to have a changed for the better since the board shakeup though.
Customer should be the "king and country" in any product for any company. Since if the customers needs aren't in the top of the TODO-list the product will be superseded by another that does listen to the customers and offer better service.
The only reason Altium is not losing their big customers is because changing the software ecosystem is a huge and expensive undertaking for any company invested in Altium. But they should understand that the state of affairs don't stay such forever.
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Altium are famous for only hearing feedback they want to hear. Deliberately wording customer polls to reinforce a direction they want to go in etc.
See no evil, hear no evil should have been the company motto.
Things seems to have a changed for the better since the board shakeup though.
Customer should be the "king and country" in any product for any company.
Yes and no. Customers are important. They just aren't always right. Software that caters to every piece of client feedback received generally ranges from terrible to awful. I would argue that Altium's excessive use of online focus groups is why this deployment is a train wreck.
By all means listen to the customer, but for goodness' sake, distill that feedback into a consistent, sustainable, coherent product. Great products get built by people with vision and drive, not by committees of ten thousand.
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This is so true, I just saw a forum post on DesignSpark that requests a DesignSpark user to make changes to an existing project because they are Altium users.
This is the reason why I am learning multiple packages now.
Customer should be the "king and country" in any product for any company. Since if the customers needs aren't in the top of the TODO-list the product will be superseded by another that does listen to the customers and offer better service.
The only reason Altium is not losing their big customers is because changing the software ecosystem is a huge and expensive undertaking for any company invested in Altium. But they should understand that the state of affairs don't stay such forever.
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Yes and no. Customers are important. They just aren't always right. Software that caters to every piece of client feedback received generally ranges from terrible to awful. I would argue that Altium's excessive use of online focus groups is why this deployment is a train wreck.
By all means listen to the customer, but for goodness' sake, distill that feedback into a consistent, sustainable, coherent product. Great products get built by people with vision and drive, not by committees of ten thousand.
That is the wisest post I've read on this forum.
although, I would go beyond and say customers most of the time are wrong and don't know what they want.
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Hi All, I felt obligated to make an account to give back to the world that has provided me with such great insights into PCB design software.
The conspiracy theories about stealing your designs is a little unwarranted, it's public because they want the parts data for analytics purposes (ie to give to the distributors and maybe even manufacturers for the purposes of foresight) ... there is a lot of *potential* money in this... I think this is great news for an enduser. Maybe phrase your feedback along the lines of "I don't care if you take data on the amount of parts I use but I want to keep my finished product to myself" ... I wouldn't be surprised if CM gets integrated with manufacturing addins like CircuitHub.
Anyway feel free to PM me if you want to know more.
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By all means listen to the customer, but for goodness' sake, distill that feedback into a consistent, sustainable, coherent product. Great products get built by people with vision and drive, not by committees of ten thousand.
Sure, but Altium was a company driven entirely by vision and drive under founder Nick Martin. So much so that the words "iron first" were often bandied about.
The problem was he had the wrong vision, that of FPGA's, and they wasted the entire company fortune on it for over 10 years. Customers were left dumbfounded at their direction.
The result was it failed, and the only reason the company didn't go out of business was the loyal customer base and lack of competition in the price bracket.
Remember, this is the PCB tool company that was so vision driven, the PCB tool literally became optional extra! :palm:
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That is the wisest post I've read on this forum.
although, I would go beyond and say customers most of the time are wrong and don't know what they want.
Except for black and white cases like "We only want the PCB tool, we don't need FPGA". You ignore feedback like that at your peril.
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I really like Altium, for some reason things mostly work as I expect them to. We are on the same wavelength and in phase. But the Circuit Maker... I can't seem to feel at home.
I miss my shortkeys :'(
Because of this I'm using KiCAD for personal projects now. Recently ported 'everything' over (I know I didn't)...
I kind of like the FOSS aspect of it too, so there's that. There is something ideologically intriguing about making open things with open tools. :blah:
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How is Circuit Maker doing? Didn't hear it mentioned much recently. Did it capture a significant market share?
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Does anyone actively use Circuit Maker ? I have not heard about it for a while...
I made one board using CM and then gave up. That community stuff really bothers me. Here is just one example. I took a component which should had been in TSSOP but somebody was lazy to make a new one component from scratch, so he added a new revision with QFN package. I could not find a way how to report it neither add comment to the revision.
Everything else was pretty good.
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How many designs are visible in the "community"?
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A bunch!
http://workspace.circuitmaker.com/Projects (http://workspace.circuitmaker.com/Projects)
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I got to say all this software completely loses me "lost in space" I've watched Dave and others use it, however when I try and use it, what's left of the brain disengages |O
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Does anyone actively use Circuit Maker ? I have not heard about it for a while...
I made one board using CM and then gave up. That community stuff really bothers me. Here is just one example. I took a component which should had been in TSSOP but somebody was lazy to make a new one component from scratch, so he added a new revision with QFN package. I could not find a way how to report it neither add comment to the revision.
Everything else was pretty good.
I've seen this once or twice only. It is something that is apparently on the roadmap to create a reporting mechanism but meanwhile you can select which revision to use and also rate components. The voting system will be added to flag something as inappropriate or broken.
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I miss my shortkeys :'(
Shortcut Keys are indeed better in CircuitMaker - they're actually mostly a single stroke. W for Wire, R for route, etc. Go to the View ribbon and open the "Shortcuts" panel - it shows them so you can learn them while you work. It will dynamically update based on what you're doing in the tools, same as with AD.
Hope it helps!