Circuit Studio or OrCAD PCB Designer

[Kelbit]

I'm a seasoned Altium Designer user (I use it all the time at work). I am potentially starting up a little side project and I would like to pick an EDA package.

I was originally just going to use KiCAD, but I see that both Cadence and Altium are playing price chicken with the low-end packages this month: OrCAD PCB Designer is on for $430 (although if you want the version that isn't node locked it's another $100) and Circuit Studio is $500. Both are permanent seats, but maintenance on OrCAD is $430/yr and Circuit Studio is $130/yr.

Since I'm habitually an Altium user I expect that I would have an easier time getting started with Circuit Studio. That said, is there a compelling reason to consider OrCAD instead of Circuit Studio? I'm not adverse to learning a new package, and I hear the Circuit Studio interface is pretty crippled compared to what I can do in Altium, and I think that might frustrate me.

Any thoughts?

[ebclr]

It's a hard decision, Orcad has the perfect schematics software, and Altium the perfect PCB.

You can try Orcad for free with some size and specs limitations, But if you want more for the money is clear on orcad side with that promotion for 437 USD.

[DerekG]

I'm a seasoned Altium Designer user (I use it all the time at work). I am potentially starting up a little side project and I would like to pick an EDA package.
Any thoughts?

Why not have a chat to the boss at work. Altium allow you to install their software on a second computer provided it is not being used at the same time as the first. Presumably your computer at work is not in use when you are at home?

[Kelbit]

I'm a seasoned Altium Designer user (I use it all the time at work). I am potentially starting up a little side project and I would like to pick an EDA package.
Any thoughts?

Why not have a chat to the boss at work. Altium allow you to install their software on a second computer provided it is not being used at the same time as the first. Presumably your computer at work is not in use when you are at home?

This is true, and I already use my work license for personal projects on weekends (and I'm not the only one). However, this side-project would be a commercial enterprise, so I can't sponge off my employer's license.

[Alex Eisenhut]

It's a hard decision, Orcad has the perfect schematics software, and Altium the perfect PCB.

Huh, we're totally opposite.

[DerekG]

this side-project would be a commercial enterprise, so I can't sponge off my employer's license.

Perhaps take a look at DipTrace then. It is much faster to learn than OrCAD & you can set up the shortcut keys to replicate those in Altium.

A group of us have been working hard with the DipTrace Design Team to implement the better features of Altium into DipTrace ........... so much so, that we can now import both Altium schematics & pcbs.

I used to only fire up Altium on my legacy designs that needed updating. Now I don't bother, I just import the Altium files directly into DipTrace.

I'm not sure how big your projects are - it may be that you can save a few dollars on the amounts listed above, or it may be that you need to spend a bit more but you will save much time with a quick / easy / powerful interface.

Altium's best software coders are located in the Ukraine. DipTrace is also located in the Ukraine.

You can take it for a drive for free

Just my thoughts for you.

[M4trix]

Altium has an unbeatable realistic 3D view of PCBs. If someone is offering a better 3D feature, please tell me.

[DerekG]

Altium has an unbeatable realistic 3D view of PCBs. If someone is offering a better 3D feature, please tell me.

Many PCB packages can produce a great 3D experience. It all depends on how much detail & the resolution that is contained within the STEP file in the first place.

[Alex Eisenhut]

Altium has an unbeatable realistic 3D view of PCBs. If someone is offering a better 3D feature, please tell me.

Real life.

[M4trix]

Real life sometimes sucks. 

[MarkF]

+1 for Diptrace.

Diptrace also has a good 3D preview.  Here's a couple examples.

[M4trix]

Hm, the PCB on the right looks quite decent. 

[DerekG]

Hm, the PCB on the right looks quite decent. 

Better STEP files would produce an even better 3D picture - plus a better monitor/video card (I think the above picture is a screen capture).

The DipTrace 3D library itself is almost 1.4GB

http://diptrace.com/libraries-and-3d-models/

[ahbushnell]

I used Altium at my previous work and no I"m on my own.  I use CS and I like it.  It should be an easy fit from your previous experience.  You can get a trial and see how you like it before placing $$ on the table.

[langwadt]

Hm, the PCB on the right looks quite decent. 

kicads 3D view is at least as good as that

[MarkF]

Hm, the PCB on the right looks quite decent. 

Better STEP files would produce an even better 3D picture - plus a better monitor/video card (I think the above picture is a screen capture).

The DipTrace 3D library itself is almost 1.4GB

http://diptrace.com/libraries-and-3d-models/

Yes it is a screen capture.  In real life you can zoom and rotate at will. Much better in real life.

Edit.  Maybe a closeup

[Kelbit]

Hm, the PCB on the right looks quite decent. 

kicads 3D view is at least as good as that

Unfortunately KiCAD's 3D models are a real pain to use because it only accepts VRML, so when I use KiCAD I pretty much never bother with adding 3D models to my footprints. KiCAD is in dire need of a STEP importer.

[rfbroadband]

I can't comment on Altium.

OrCAD: Easy to learn, has a few quirks but it is a good tool.
OrCAD CIS (upgrade, more expensive) contains the database integration and automated BOM and BOM Variance generation linked to a variety of your database choices. (I use it, works very nice but requires constant maintenance of whatever database solution you choose). Of course database maintenance is independent on OrCAD and is another topic in itself, but you need to be aware that OrCAD CIS exists.

Allegro (Called PCB Editor), is probably one of the best and most complex PCB layout tools available with a pretty steep learning curve. The version in OrCAD PCB Designer is the min. configuration of Allegro with many features disabled to get you hooked hoping you will want all these features in the future and pay for the upgrade.

I could imagine that one would come up to speed on other layout tools (Altium, Circuit Studio etc) faster and as the learning curve of these other tools is not as steep. I have never used Altium, Circuit Studio..I am just guessing here.

Note, that OrCAD - Allegro offer you the (probably most advanced?) concept of a "hierarchical design re-use flow" (layout and schematic) that exists for PCB tools which you may appreciate in the future, but not initially. I would guess that not many people care that much, but again you should be aware about the existence ...

Finally, OrCAD offers a PSpice integration (again not sure if you care..), thus in the future you could add PSpice to your setup, do MoneCarlo and other simulations using the same OrCAD entry front end. Of course you could just use LTSpice which is free or any other spice simulator.

[MarkF]

Hm, the PCB on the right looks quite decent. 

kicads 3D view is at least as good as that

Unfortunately KiCAD's 3D models are a real pain to use because it only accepts VRML, so when I use KiCAD I pretty much never bother with adding 3D models to my footprints. KiCAD is in dire need of a STEP importer.

I've been getting 3D models from 3D ContentCentral.  You will need to create an account but there is no fee to download the models.  Their conversion to VRML sometimes looses all the colors and the model ends up all silver.  Diptrace can use both STEP and VRML models.

[DerekG]

I've been using a cracked copy of Protel99SE (then DXP2004 and AD6.9) .............. AD is one of the cheapest EDA tool with full high speed design capability and productivity.

Yes, I guess you can't get cheaper than free!

[Kelbit]

Thanks for all the opinions, everyone.

After trying out the CircuitStudio trial, I think I'll be going with it, especially since the price is now down to $500. While I'm fairly confident that both DipTrace and Orcad PCB provide a better bang for the buck, CircuitStudio is basically stripped-down Altium with a ribbon and a blue colour scheme. Since I'm an experienced Altium Designer user, I've been very productive with Circuit Studio right out of the gate.

[ebclr]

It's a good option, since you already knew Altium, All 3 are perfect usable, it's a question of personal taste

[DerekG]

Since I'm an experienced Altium Designer user, I've been very productive with Circuit Studio right out of the gate.

Fully understandable.

While I'm fairly confident that both DipTrace and Orcad PCB provide a better bang for the buck

As an experienced Altium/Protel user from 1988 onwards, I've never looked backed after finding DipTrace. The absolute ease of moving from a schematic to a PCB & the great component auto-placement & auto-routing make it a very productive standout tool that's hard to beat.

[plazma]

Since I'm an experienced Altium Designer user, I've been very productive with Circuit Studio right out of the gate.

Fully understandable.

While I'm fairly confident that both DipTrace and Orcad PCB provide a better bang for the buck

As an experienced Altium/Protel user from 1988 onwards, I've never looked backed after finding DipTrace. The absolute ease of moving from a schematic to a PCB & the great component auto-placement & auto-routing make it a very productive standout tool that's hard to beat.

How well are the push&shove and other advanced manual routing options implemented in DipTrace? Routing with CS was a pleasure.

[DerekG]

How well are the push&shove and other advanced manual routing options implemented in DipTrace?

A group of Beta testers are testing the interactive push & shove router for the next release. It has however not been a pressing issue as you simply update the schematic & re-run the auto-router to add in the extra tracks. All the tracks/via's/pads/copper expanses will have the correct clearances as set up in the auto-router rules file. You can lock parts of your layout to allow re-routing to only affect the certain board areas where you need an extra track to be added.

Ver 3 onwards had a lot of auto-router programming updates. I used to use Freerouter (source code developed by Zuken which puts Altium's auto-router to shame), but now I'm very happy to use the embedded DipTrace auto-router. You can also use the Electra auto-router if you have a license for it.

You will read over & over that Altium users state the auto-router is useless. Either the user has not spent the time to set it up correctly, or Altium have not improved it very much over the past 10 years. Perhaps a current user can advise further on this.