ETA for medium size pcb prototyping

[perieanuo]

hi,

what ETA do you negotiate for successful prototype starting from scratch (what the un-informed client wants) for a medium-complex pcb (like 120x80mm, including 3-4 input modular sensors incorporated on-board, microcontroler core, 2-3 dcdc's, some opto isolators)? the pcb's will be done with eurocircuits for example, i like them.
the expected  bom is like 50-70 components for the simpler one and will go upto maybe 100-120 for a more complex pcb i'll need to design.

the further assembly is not my concern, of course i'll keep in touch with assembly line technician in order to use components he can easily mount in some chinese smt line (qm61 or smt660/880 pnp machines)

where i worked, projects(boards) like this took sometimes 2-3 months to be up-and-running 100%, firmware included of course, with all client hw/sw validations passed correctly and some bigger/more complex pcb's even more

why i ask? because i may accept a pcb designer position and the last time i did this type of work was in 2016-2017, maybe some things are changed. i designed only 3 boards before (same complexity, microcontroller with oled/optos/optotriac/dcdc's switching type, size 85*60 for example). and this type of job is my dream-job and i wanna do it by the book, if this still exists those days.

regards,
pierre

[tszaboo]

Really depends on the project, and what it does. 2-3 months could be a simple board, without testing, and not having to make any changes to the PCB, "First time works".
I usually give much longer estimates to projects. Although nowadays, writing the technical documentation and certification takes 6 months alone.

[perieanuo]

Really depends on the project, and what it does. 2-3 months could be a simple board, without testing, and not having to make any changes to the PCB, "First time works".
I usually give much longer estimates to projects. Although nowadays, writing the technical documentation and certification takes 6 months alone.

from my magic hat, i said 2 months for a good and stable product, viewing on same pcb i'll implement microwave sensor+wifi access point+gps, that includes testing and validation, but without 'official' ems tests and with no very complex technical dossier. like a working proof of concept and ready to mount (assemble) prototype. i may be too short with this 2 months schedule
they already have cad sw license (and it's one i prefer) but almost zero lab (just one scope i haven't seen yet and some china 150 euros rework station and that's it). they have the desks...
so i'll loose 2 weeks or more just getting the 'hardware' tools i need, starting from screwdrivers 

you understand, i can't disclose details from the product, they'll cut my head  but besides that sensor stack the board will not be some complex 2kW inverter either

i'm waiting for another "point of vue" from other experienced designers

[tszaboo]

Oh no. You will probably have trouble getting the components in 2 months, if you order it right now. Strangely, EMS' are also very occupied, the usual 2 weeks lead time is now 3 weeks promised, delivered late.

[perieanuo]

Oh no. You will probably have trouble getting the components in 2 months, if you order it right now. Strangely, EMS' are also very occupied, the usual 2 weeks lead time is now 3 weeks promised, delivered late.

they sweared they have the bom for the first board to be designed already in-house (in fact re-designed, they have some pcb version looking hobby for my eyes and they will redesing this first, they had some other engineer doing the first pcb but he won't give them the files, it sould be quicker for me to correct his mistakes than starting again, but that's it....), but i don't trust them (haven't checked myself the parts and i'm sure i'll add parts, they mixed mains with signal in the wrong way)
but i agree to add 2 weeks, the tme representative said he can provide us with r&d parts pro-bono in that time frame. i can design, order the pcb's then mount manually first, here i'm experienced

[perieanuo]

update: they had a meeting with me (well, me and the 'comercial manager', the big boss is taking a foreign unknown trip ) and collaterally informed me they found some company doing this type of projects for 1300 euros net, haven't said in what timeframe
i'm guessing, they are either stupid either really not informed regarding this r&d electronics domain
i'll stick to what it seems to be doable here, 2-3 months to have the board running the tests and more if all 'dossiers' needs to be top-notch (they avoid this subject, but viewing the $$$ comes from EU funding, they gotta make the absolutely necessary papers, the product must be produced/certified un UE country at least

[Pack34]

Right now a lot of lead times are extended due to component shortages. If you plan everything out and avoid anything you can't readily buy on DigiKey that day you could do a quick turn from Protoexpress. Otherwise you could be looking at a couple months.

[perieanuo]

yes i noticed also for 'normal' ic's
for the bom i'll need apparently their supplier can handle those boards (they gave me 3 different variants, first they said 1000 boards by the end of the year, than upgraded in 2 words to 2000 and last week was 5000    )
i know 1 board (the board had a bad design from some company doing pick'and'place where the owner played with kicad and the result was a small piece of sh....t), and the other 3-4 are some derivatives from this, except for one
they already purchased the microcontrolers (dunno if the boss is a genius or just lucky) so the rest should be piece of cake for max 2-3 suppliers
but some chips give me already headaches (like ina219, small stocks, backup boards like those proto boards for arduino are already leaving the scene), since no contract >> no order, so i'll take this into account, thanks for advice
................surprised i have only one person to discuss  ........................