Author Topic: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!  (Read 30461 times)

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Offline b_force

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #50 on: August 18, 2020, 04:58:22 pm »
I have tried it as well for a couple of days and i would like to give my two cents as well.
Unfortunately, I am a little bit worried to actually share my thoughts, since most of the time feedback and criticism seems to be totally burned down.



But I am just not seeing it with this one, I am very sorry.
A lot of work needs to be done to the user interface ans user experience.
It's very unclear what exactly is going on, what is happening and how and what to do, where to find things.
Yes, those things can be found in manuals and such, but these things just need to be intuitive, without the user spending so much extra time to search and read.
In other words, the interface is just way to different that what is usual as well as very inconsistent.

If that i your goal and taste, it's fine I guess.
I just don't really see a lot of people enjoying it this way.

Just giving my professional thoughts about it, nothing more.

Offline Bassman59

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #51 on: August 18, 2020, 05:27:24 pm »
Quote
Any updates on getting it to run on macOS?
Unfortunately no. If anything will happen it'll most likely be captured there https://github.com/horizon-eda/horizon/issues/271#

Long story short: I don't have a mac os machine at hand and don't have any personal interest in getting it to run on mac os.

well, I guess I don't have any personal interest in using your software.
 
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Offline LukasTopic starter

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2020, 06:07:31 pm »
I have tried it as well for a couple of days and i would like to give my two cents as well.
Unfortunately, I am a little bit worried to actually share my thoughts, since most of the time feedback and criticism seems to be totally burned down.



But I am just not seeing it with this one, I am very sorry.
A lot of work needs to be done to the user interface ans user experience.
It's very unclear what exactly is going on, what is happening and how and what to do, where to find things.
Yes, those things can be found in manuals and such, but these things just need to be intuitive, without the user spending so much extra time to search and read.
In other words, the interface is just way to different that what is usual as well as very inconsistent.

If that i your goal and taste, it's fine I guess.
I just don't really see a lot of people enjoying it this way.

Just giving my professional thoughts about it, nothing more.

Can you be more specific? Feedback like this isn't really actionable and doesn't do any good. Anyhow, I've heard exactly the opposite from some people.
 
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Offline b_force

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2020, 06:21:12 pm »
I have tried it as well for a couple of days and i would like to give my two cents as well.
Unfortunately, I am a little bit worried to actually share my thoughts, since most of the time feedback and criticism seems to be totally burned down.



But I am just not seeing it with this one, I am very sorry.
A lot of work needs to be done to the user interface ans user experience.
It's very unclear what exactly is going on, what is happening and how and what to do, where to find things.
Yes, those things can be found in manuals and such, but these things just need to be intuitive, without the user spending so much extra time to search and read.
In other words, the interface is just way to different that what is usual as well as very inconsistent.

If that i your goal and taste, it's fine I guess.
I just don't really see a lot of people enjoying it this way.

Just giving my professional thoughts about it, nothing more.

Can you be more specific? Feedback like this isn't really actionable and doesn't do any good. Anyhow, I've heard exactly the opposite from some people.
Be more specific?
Install Altium, diptrace, Proteus, Ultiboard or even ave a look at EasyEDA, hack even the old PADS and have a look how the user interface is and works.
My apologies, but I don't see how this is not obvious and this feedback is actually VERY actionable.

Offline LukasTopic starter

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2020, 09:07:57 pm »
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I quickly tried the symbol editor and had this question: What is the box shown (I marked it with a blue line) for, it moves into this position when I add pins, and how do I move it out of the way, because it is intersecting with the symbol outline. I couldn't find a menu item (in the spacebar menu) that seemed relevant to it. Closing and reopening the symbol didn't change it, and clicking on the line doesn't select it either.

The box indicates the pin bounding box to aid consistent pin placement. All pins should be on this line, the pins at the bottom aren't.

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Ok, adding shortcuts doesn't hurt that much. Should they zoom in/out relative to the screen center or where the cursor is?

Done: https://github.com/horizon-eda/horizon/issues/479#issuecomment-675710884

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Install Altium, diptrace, Proteus, Ultiboard or even ave a look at EasyEDA, hack even the old PADS and have a look how the user interface is and works.

I guess that you're missing the Windows 95-style File/Edit menu bar. The omission of such menu bar is deliberate and is here to stay. Instead, we have

  • Spacebar menu that's searchable (has everything)
  • Action buttons on the left
  • Hamburger menu at at the top left

There have been some ideas on making the spacebar menu more obvious: https://github.com/horizon-eda/horizon/pull/396
 

Offline b_force

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2020, 09:27:19 pm »
Quote
I quickly tried the symbol editor and had this question: What is the box shown (I marked it with a blue line) for, it moves into this position when I add pins, and how do I move it out of the way, because it is intersecting with the symbol outline. I couldn't find a menu item (in the spacebar menu) that seemed relevant to it. Closing and reopening the symbol didn't change it, and clicking on the line doesn't select it either.

The box indicates the pin bounding box to aid consistent pin placement. All pins should be on this line, the pins at the bottom aren't.

Quote
Ok, adding shortcuts doesn't hurt that much. Should they zoom in/out relative to the screen center or where the cursor is?

Done: https://github.com/horizon-eda/horizon/issues/479#issuecomment-675710884

Quote
Install Altium, diptrace, Proteus, Ultiboard or even ave a look at EasyEDA, hack even the old PADS and have a look how the user interface is and works.

I guess that you're missing the Windows 95-style File/Edit menu bar. The omission of such menu bar is deliberate and is here to stay. Instead, we have

  • Spacebar menu that's searchable (has everything)
  • Action buttons on the left
  • Hamburger menu at at the top left

There have been some ideas on making the spacebar menu more obvious: https://github.com/horizon-eda/horizon/pull/396
No, I am missing the part that the user can choice whatever he likes

But my point mostly is, that is very different from any professional EDA out there.

Offline gord

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2020, 09:53:07 pm »
Hello,

I think the software is quite promising, but some usability adjustments could help further.
For instance, I understand the hover mode is interesting for touch control, but if an item is not selected (such as intending to touch a component in a schematic but instead accidentally touching on the component reference or component value text), the mode exits from Hover mode into Click to select mode. It's very irritating that the mode swaps like this. Personally I would prefer to see a configurable option to disable the existing behaviour and enable a hybrid mode which could optionally just faintly highlight components and wires as the mouse moves over it, and then clicking to select, or holding down to select and drag. In other words, a hybrid mode that doesn't care if the user clicks to select, or holds down and drags. Just to make it more intuitive, it would also be nice that if the mouse is hovered over component text, then the component is still automatically highlighted as if the user was hovering over the component, and the entire component can be moved. The smashed text mode is fine.

Another issue is that it is hard to tidy schematics. Here is an example, where it was desired to move C2. Once it is moved, the right side wire becomes angled. After that, it is impossible to straighten the wire without deleting the top and right side wire and then redrawing them. No move operation resolves it. If I try to move the right wire, it introduces a new wire segment. If I try to move the top wire, it just makes the left side become angled. Moving components tends to make the wires angled in almost all circumstances unless the component is moved in the same direction as the wire, and usually needs two wires to be deleted and re-added.
This is probably a low priority, and difficult to solve in all circumstances maybe. A solution would really improve usability.

Another thing concerns scrollbars. They are absent from the schematic and PCB view, but they would not take up a lot of space. It is worse in the pool manager because the scroll bar is very thin, and hard to click on, because just a millimetre of mouse movement will miss it. Can they be normal scrollbar width, because I don't see the benefit of the thin bar in this view. I know some people will just use a scroll wheel but there could be hundreds of items in the list and it takes a long time.
I don't want you to think I am nit-picking, I am just trying to speed up commonly used tasks and reduce the behaviour from getting in the way of the user enjoying your software.

I tried creating a package, I have not got far yet, but I had this comment regarding pads:
When in hover mode, clicking on the pad won't bring up the pad parameter window on the right. I have to move the pad to bring up the parameter window, or I have to click elsewhere first to go into click select mode. This is quite unintuitive. Clicking on an item should bring up the parameter window always surely. I think this is another example of where a hybrid mode would be better. Another issue is that the parameter window does not allow the pad size to be modified. It can be modified by pressing i and then typing a value and then pressing OK. But there is plenty of space in the right side parameter window, and would provide easy discovery of the pad adjustment, whereas pressing i needs to be learned.
 
One final thing for now, I looked at the symbol and package files, and there are long strings like "7dac098e-afb4-4074-80d2-d5a5983a45dc". For using code to create symbols and packages, can these be random references, or can be any length names like "pad-00001" where 00001 is a locally unique number in that file? It would be easy to increment a locally unique number. The ability to have the padstack within the same file as the package file would also help here, to save having to generate two files.







« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 10:11:49 pm by gord »
 

Offline LukasTopic starter

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2020, 10:41:18 pm »
Quote
This is probably a low priority, and difficult to solve in all circumstances maybe. A solution would really improve usability.
Since https://github.com/horizon-eda/horizon/commit/e0eb9e3fbce1c1a8f9177d9f86935149ccd1627d you can just drag the non-straight net line and it'll add another junction. There's also the "bend net line tool".

Quote
I don't want you to think I am nit-picking, I am just trying to speed up commonly used tasks and reduce the behaviour from getting in the way of the user enjoying your software.
This is Gtk thing that I don't have much control over. You could use a different theme, but I have no idea how this works on windows. You might try setting then GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0 environment variable to have the scrollbars always visible.

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. They are absent from the schematic and PCB view, but they would not take up a lot of space.
Scroll bars imply that there's some sort of page that can't be exceeded without any hacks. I had go at this a while back but couldn't come up with a satisfactory solution fast enough. Why would one need the scrollbars though? I don't recall having used the scrollbars on any 2D graphics application.

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Clicking on an item should bring up the parameter window always surely.

That's how it works. No idea why you're seeing different behaviour.

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Another issue is that the parameter window does not allow the pad size to be modified.

You can also just double-click on a pad to bring up the pad parameters window. That one can't easily be moved into the properties panel on the right due to implementation aspects.

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are long strings like "7dac098e-afb4-4074-80d2-d5a5983a45dc".

These are UUIDs and have to be in that particular format.

Quote
The ability to have the padstack within the same file as the package file would also help here, to save having to generate two files.
Most packages won't need specific padstacks so that's mostly a non issue. Also, having both documents in one file has it's own share of implementation issues.


Quote
It's very irritating that the mode swaps like this. Personally I would prefer to see a configurable option to disable the existing behaviour and enable a hybrid mode which could optionally just faintly highlight components and wires as the mouse moves over it, and then clicking to select,

So your primary issue is that clicking nowhere activates click select mode?

EDIT: One reason for the hover select mode is being able to hover over something and just press delete to delete it as it's possible in kicad.
EDIT2: You can try out the alternate behaviour with https://ci.appveyor.com/project/carrotIndustries/horizon/builds/34728877 once the build has finished.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 11:01:06 pm by Lukas »
 

Offline LukasTopic starter

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2020, 11:23:44 pm »

No, I am missing the part that the user can choice whatever he likes

But my point mostly is, that is very different from any professional EDA out there.

Yes, that's intentional. Most of the applications you mentioned have a moderately (diptrace) to really long (altium) history. It shouldn't come surprising that a project started in 2016 would make different design choices than a project started in the 90s.

Since the project is mostly a one man show, I don't have the bandwidth to support everybody's favourite UI style.
 
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Offline b_force

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #59 on: August 18, 2020, 11:42:01 pm »

No, I am missing the part that the user can choice whatever he likes

But my point mostly is, that is very different from any professional EDA out there.

Yes, that's intentional. Most of the applications you mentioned have a moderately (diptrace) to really long (altium) history. It shouldn't come surprising that a project started in 2016 would make different design choices than a project started in the 90s.

Since the project is mostly a one man show, I don't have the bandwidth to support everybody's favourite UI style.
I understand that, especially the last part, so my approach would be making something that people are already familiar with or even improve it.
In a sense of priorities, much more important than something like an auto router or even like fancy 3D graphics.
Once I again, I absolutely do NOT to be all grumpy and negative about it.
It's in fact the opposite, one of the main reasons I just see new projects with potentials failing.

User experience,interface as well as compatibility (Mac, Windows and Linux) is key, the rest will come later (unless you heavily fail on it)
These are also things that are very well defined and actionable.

Like I said, i am just giving my very well meant feedback, based on people who have been working for years with these kind of programs.
I can tell you, the average opinion about open source/free EDA software is really far from great. :(
I am totally fine and respect with whatever direction you choose.
I just see potential, so I personally feel obligated to share my experiences, nothing more, nothing less (and definitely no hateful rants or feelings) 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 11:43:45 pm by b_force »
 
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Offline gord

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2020, 01:42:33 am »
I also agree. You have already implemented great features, which may be enough for plenty PCB projects.
Polishing the UI to speed it up, trying commonly-encountered devices like a mouse with scroll wheel and you'll soon find centre-clicking is not pleasant, so a keypress is helpful for such circumstances.
Speed-ups of the commonly-encountered tasks, and making the procedures more intuitive in just a few places, and adding a little bit of configurability like the zoom step size (it is noticeably different step size to a different CAD package) will make it easier for people to transition. I think the work steps for creating components, symbols, and packages could be reduced slightly too, as a speed-up.
It also gets confusing to create a package, I click on Create and fully expect to type the package name. If I do that, I get an error "Path does not exist". Instead, to create a package, I have to right-click in the file explorer and create a folder with the desired package name, and then select that.

Is there a way to re-scan or refresh the pool database? For instance, if I create (using text editor or scripts or custom code) a new folder and new package.json file for a new package, how do I see it in the pool?


 

Offline LukasTopic starter

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2020, 07:18:16 am »
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User experience,interface as well as compatibility (Mac, Windows and Linux) is key, the rest will come later (unless you heavily fail on it)

As written before, I don't have the time and hardware to bother with Mac os. As for UX, I've been told the exact opposite from other people.

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These are also things that are very well defined and actionable.
No. It boils down to "I don't way it behaves/looks". This is what proper UI feedback looks like: https://github.com/horizon-eda/horizon/issues/390

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Like I said, i am just giving my very well meant feedback, based on people who have been working for years with these kind of programs.

I've also been working with other Schematic/PCB design tools like Eagle, KiCad and mentor's expedition and didn't like their UI. That's why Horizon EDA is different.


Quote
Polishing the UI to speed it up, trying commonly-encountered devices like a mouse with scroll wheel and you'll soon find centre-clicking is not pleasant, so a keypress is helpful for such circumstances.

I am using a mouse with a scroll wheel and have no problem with the middle mouse button. If you don't like it, you can hold shift and drag with the left mouse button.

Quote
Is there a way to re-scan or refresh the pool database? For instance, if I create (using text editor or scripts or custom code) a new folder and new package.json file for a new package, how do I see it in the pool?

That's what the big update pool button in the top left is for.

 

Offline b_force

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2020, 01:58:04 pm »
I would also suggest working with people who are trying to give feedback, instead of against.
When making products (software is also a product, even when free), you as the developer need to have the skill to understand the customers.
You can never ever expect that customers are going to give you that feedback in ready to eat chunks according to the way you like.
Or are you also going to tell your plumber which pipe is broken, where and how? :-//

As soon as you are going to tell your customers what they need to do and saying they are wrong, you will loose it.
For any product (free, open source or commercial) the best way to disappear.

The reason why I am not making such a ready to eat list, is simply because it's to much to sum up.
Also hard to explain in bullet points if the foundations are already not pointing in the right direction.
If you don't know what I was talking about before, you simply have never used any of the EDA programs before.

Good luck with your project.

Offline PlainName

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2020, 03:44:15 pm »
Quote
Why would one need the scrollbars though? I don't recall having used the scrollbars on any 2D graphics application.

I never use them (unless forced to by a dodgy app) - my mousewheel is fine. But scrollbars are very important to me since they tell me a) that there is stuff below the line I can't see, and b) how big the stuff below the line is.

This is what makes GUIs really useful. Or should. It's not so much that there are things to click on or drag but that there are visual clues that one often uses without realising.
 
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Offline LukasTopic starter

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #64 on: August 19, 2020, 09:23:24 pm »
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Good luck with your project.

Let's just agree that we have different ideas on how a PCB design tool should operate and look like.

Quote
and adding a little bit of configurability like the zoom step size

We now have this.
 

Offline gord

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2020, 04:36:52 pm »
Hi Lukas,

Horizon has many useful functions, any comments regarding UX or otherwise are just friendly comments. I think consistency is important even if it is 20 years old, scrollbars provide context. Panning should not need a hard centre mouse scroll wheel to be pressed, other software does this but they also provide other methods to pan.
Regarding this:
Quote
Quote
Polishing the UI to speed it up, trying commonly-encountered devices like a mouse with scroll wheel and you'll soon find centre-clicking is not pleasant, so a keypress is helpful for such circumstances.

I am using a mouse with a scroll wheel and have no problem with the middle mouse button. If you don't like it, you can hold shift and drag with the left mouse button.
This is great, thanks. This is in-line with what other software does, having the option to press a modifier key and then dragging with a left or right mouse button.

Quote
EDIT: One reason for the hover select mode is being able to hover over something and just press delete to delete it as it's possible in kicad.
EDIT2: You can try out the alternate behaviour with https://ci.appveyor.com/project/carrotIndustries/horizon/builds/34728877 once the build has finished.
I have just tried this, and it is much better. It would still be nice to be able to have the hybrid option (it is more in-line with other graphical editors, for instance Visio will allow hover and then drag, or single click to select and then use cursor keys to move) but a hover mode which doesn't disable itself if blank space is clicked is better than previously.
I think there is a bug though, if I double-click on text to edit it, then the mode goes into click mode. It's not nice when it changes almost arbitrarily, just one consistent mode is better (unless explicitly changed), whatever that mode is, hover or hybrid.

I have a question, if my circuit looks like the attachment, because I dragged R1 up, where should I click and drag to make the two connecting wires horizontal?
If I click on the angled wires and drag, I can find no way to achieve it. Clicking on the pointed corners does not work either. To me it seems like the only solution is to delete the wires and redraw. Is there really no way to correct this situation by dragging wires? If there is a way, it is very unobvious. This is a very popular thing, where a user may move a component to reduce space or tidy up, and then wish to move the wires so they are not angled. Maybe an interesting feature could be to horizontalize or verticalize wires on a keypress if the intent needs to be passed to the software, this would be a nice differentiator.

Finally for now, when the exit button is clicked, Horizon uses back-to-front buttons. Normally with Windows software the Save option is on the left, but with Horizon the 'Exit without Saving' option is on the left. I think this is going to annoy users when they lose their designs. If it cannot be swapped around, can an "Are you sure?" box appear if "Exit without Saving" is clicked?

« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 05:50:21 pm by gord »
 

Offline LukasTopic starter

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2020, 08:24:50 pm »
Quote
panning should not need a hard centre mouse scroll wheel to be pressed, other software does this but they also provide other methods to pan.

Perhaps we've used a discjunct set of 2D graphics applications, but the majority of the apps I've used so far uses middle click to pan.

Quote
for instance Visio will allow hover and then drag, or single click to select and then use cursor keys to move

I'm probably missing the point, but hover and drag as well as clicking to select and using the arrows keys to move does work. I've only used visio once or so, didn't like it's interaction and didn't bother with it anymore.

Quote
if I double-click on text to edit it, then the mode goes into click mode


Well, this is bit difficult to solve. From the applications perspective a double click looks like two regular mouse clicks followed by a double click event. Unconditionally switching to to hover select mode after double click isn't ideal either.

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I have a question, if my circuit looks like the attachment, because I dragged R1 up, where should I click and drag to make the two connecting wires horizontal?

You don't. Select both junctions that stick out the bottom and press m to invoke the move tool. I usually prefer moving things that way as it doesn't require holding down the mouse button.

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Finally for now, when the exit button is clicked, Horizon uses back-to-front buttons. Normally with Windows software the Save option is on the left

Horizon EDA isn't windows software. It's a cross-platform applications that tries to follow the GNOME UI guidelines.
 

Offline jbay

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #67 on: August 25, 2020, 02:06:09 am »
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I would also suggest working with people who are trying to give feedback, instead of against.

For what it's worth, I think Lukas has been extremely responsive to feedback. He's taken the time to respond to every one of my questions or comments, explained his reasoning when he disagreed, and most astonishingly, fixed bugs that I reported and implemented many of the changes that I requested, within days or even hours. I'm blown away.

Anyway, it's true that Horizon doesn't copy the UI of other EDA programs. I think that's great. If I liked KiCAD's UI, I'd be using KiCAD. I found Horizon much easier to pick up and start using than any other EDA software I've used before. I think it could definitely do with more tutorials and examples, but it makes more sense to write those after the features stabilize. Once I feel experienced enough to write them I'd be happy to volunteer to contribute a few.
 
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Offline Warhawk

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #68 on: August 25, 2020, 01:47:45 pm »
I also agree that Lukas has been extremely supportive and always provided clear answers.
To me it seems that he has some vision and does not promise everything to everyone. I appreciate this behavior way more than what I witnessed from e.g. Altium and their comments on Circuit Studio development.
 
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Offline Oleander

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #69 on: August 25, 2020, 06:50:32 pm »
Hello !
I've just tried to compile Horizon EDA v.1.21 on my Slackware Linux 64-bit, but an error terminated the job:
Code: [Select]
build/obj/build/gen/help_texts.o
 build/horizon-imp
 build/horizon-eda
/usr/include/opencascade/BRepAdaptor_Surface.lxx:270: error: undefined reference to 'GeomAdaptor_Surface::IsVRational() const'
/usr/include/opencascade/BRepAdaptor_Surface.lxx:260: error: undefined reference to 'GeomAdaptor_Surface::IsURational() const'
/usr/include/opencascade/BRepAdaptor_Surface.lxx:249: error: undefined reference to 'GeomAdaptor_Surface::NbVKnots() const'
~~~~~~
build/obj/src/util/step_importer.o:step_importer.cpp:vtable for GeomAdaptor_Surface: error: undefined reference to 'GeomAdaptor_Surface::BasisCurve() const'
build/obj/src/util/step_importer.o:step_importer.cpp:vtable for GeomAdaptor_Surface: error: undefined reference to 'GeomAdaptor_Surface::BasisSurface() const'
build/obj/src/util/step_importer.o:step_importer.cpp:vtable for GeomAdaptor_Surface: error: undefined reference to 'GeomAdaptor_Surface::OffsetValue() const'
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [Makefile:817: build/horizon-imp] Error 1
make: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
What is the problem here ?
I have all required dependencies.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 06:53:01 pm by Oleander »
 

Offline gord

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #70 on: August 25, 2020, 08:27:22 pm »
It is more usable PCB-CAD software than many others out there. The UI has quirks, but once they are explained, it becomes fine generally, although some things still feel inconsistent or unintuitive. This is just a friendly comment, there is no criticism intended.
I hope the component creation process can be shortened for single-gate parts, (for example, more in-line with EAGLE which has just three steps [package, symbol and component]), and I hope to try creating a complete PCB design with Horizon soon.
 

Offline LukasTopic starter

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #71 on: August 25, 2020, 10:05:37 pm »
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I hope the component creation process can be shortened for single-gate parts,

Have you tried the part wizard? That should make things a lot easier compared to using entity and part editor.

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although some things still feel inconsistent or unintuitive.

Feel free to point them out, that's the only way they could get better. Some things though might be due to different concepts or implementation limitations.

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I've just tried to compile Horizon EDA v.1.21 on my Slackware Linux 64-bit, but an error terminated the job:

Looks like your version of opencascade might be built differently than the one packaged by other distros. Try appending -lTKG3d to the LDFLAGS_OCE variable in the Makefile.
 

Offline Oleander

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #72 on: August 26, 2020, 08:32:27 am »
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I've just tried to compile Horizon EDA v.1.21 on my Slackware Linux 64-bit, but an error terminated the job:
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Looks like your version of opencascade might be built differently than the one packaged by other distros. Try appending -lTKG3d to the LDFLAGS_OCE variable in the Makefile.

Makefile appending worked, thanks !
Now it's the time to explore it all.
 

Offline LukasTopic starter

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #73 on: August 29, 2020, 08:03:47 pm »
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1. Is there a way to route tracks at any angle, instead of 45 deg? If any angle is not possible, then 22.5 deg or 12.5 deg step modes could be useful and meet most requirements where 45 degree is not sufficient. If I had a choice this would be a high priority for me. Eventually curved tracks may also be good but this may be a major feature?

2. A button to override the rules during routing could be useful, because sometimes it is helpful to lay down tracks for layer refinement. This is useful when quickly testing to see if traces and positioning may be fine. For me this is a medium priority.
There's the draw track tool, but it's fairly basic. IIRC the kicad router used in Horizon EDA supports routing arbitrary angles without DRC and disabling DRC, so it's just a matter of adding the glue logic.


Good news for you: The route track tool now supports routing tracks at arbitrary angles as well as turning DRC off. Press Shift-S to open the router's settings.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Horizon EDA Version 1.0!
« Reply #74 on: August 30, 2020, 09:32:12 am »
I have tried it as well for a couple of days and i would like to give my two cents as well.
Unfortunately, I am a little bit worried to actually share my thoughts, since most of the time feedback and criticism seems to be totally burned down.



But I am just not seeing it with this one, I am very sorry.
A lot of work needs to be done to the user interface ans user experience.
It's very unclear what exactly is going on, what is happening and how and what to do, where to find things.
Yes, those things can be found in manuals and such, but these things just need to be intuitive, without the user spending so much extra time to search and read.
In other words, the interface is just way to different that what is usual as well as very inconsistent.

If that i your goal and taste, it's fine I guess.
I just don't really see a lot of people enjoying it this way.

Just giving my professional thoughts about it, nothing more.

Can you be more specific? Feedback like this isn't really actionable and doesn't do any good. Anyhow, I've heard exactly the opposite from some people.
Be more specific?
Install Altium, diptrace, Proteus, Ultiboard or even ave a look at EasyEDA, hack even the old PADS and have a look how the user interface is and works.
My apologies, but I don't see how this is not obvious and this feedback is actually VERY actionable.
No, it absolutely isn’t actionable. None of the comments are even distantly specific.

And pointing to all the classics... I think the point here was to NOT just be a clone of the (shitty) standard EDA program user interface model.
 


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