How expensive is it to make your own PCB at home ?

[lordvader88]

I'm talking of small PCBs, like a few inches ^2, where u mask the PCB and do stuff like put it in copper solution, that old type. I bet there's kits, and then there's good old ebay, part by part.

I'm just wondering an esitmate, for if u buy all the main stuff u need to get started at home.

Thanks

[ataradov]

All you really need is ferric chloride https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Chloride-Etchant-Solution/dp/B008UH3SAE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1551149948&sr=8-3 and copper clad PCB laminate https://www.amazon.com/Double-Sided-Copper-Laminate-Circuit/dp/B01LZVMIBN/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1551149977&sr=8-5

Plus a laser printer or nail polish or shrapies to transfer the artwork.

And a micro drill to make holes if your design has any. There are some pretty cheap options on eBay. Like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Micro-Small-Electric-Aluminum-Hand-Portable-Handheld-Drill-Bits-0-8-1-5mm/381008422307 They are pretty crap, but work in a pinch.

That being said, unless you can't wait a week for your boards, it is so not worth it.

[digsys]

In the "real old days", that's all we had :-) .. I knew many people set up to make their own pcbs, including myself. There should still be kits out there, if you're
only talking a few p/months / less? It isn't that hard (we used ammonium persulphate instead of ferric chloride though), but note -
Double sided is tricky, plate through / through pins are even trickier. We used photo negs, so alignment accuracy was very good, down to 8thou tracks / gaps,
sometimes less. Do you have a pic of something similar to what you want to make?

[ataradov]

In the "real old days", that's all we had :-)

And I'm very glad those times are over. We made progress, hooray. Now my clothes are not going to be stained forever with FeCl.

[coppercone2]

very cheap if you are patient and tune your process to make sure it works right. If you just go out willy nilly and follow instructions without doing scaled tests its easy to waste 100$ of PCB's in a day with various problems (alignment, photoresist development, temperature, bad photodeveloper that aged, light source malfunctioning, misbehaving printers, etc..

It's alot of steps that you NEED to get right with NO option to correct unless your going to fuck around under a magnifier/microscope scraping shit for hours.

Otherwise very cheap if you make the tools.

[coppercone2]

In the "real old days", that's all we had :-)

And I'm very glad those times are over. We made progress, hooray. Now my clothes are not going to be stained forever with FeCl.

this is part of process control. Its actually NOT trivial to even do things like baking or cooking without making a mess, grease splatter, flour everywhere, etc.

PCB etching and chemical work requires ALOT of planning and mindfulness and stupid equipment that you think is unnecessary. Very fun if you do it right but also can be a pain, as I learned with making etching tanks.

Hell I have trouble opening a can of paint sometimes. Usually because I am too fucking lazy and unequipped and think I can wing it (i.e. open a can of paint on a table rather then get a big tupperware to do it in).

Mindfulness is hard .. we act like a bunch of primitive pete's around chemicals for some reason.. because it looks so easy.. not even pouring a big container is easy and everything has a procedure you need to learn to be efficient..

I call it 'splatter and fume control engineering' lol.

[coppercone2]

Good way to 'learn' how to do this stuff right is to have a absolutely clean work surface and tools that you polish/restore when doing this stuff, so you immediately notice when you spill acid or stain something etc. After you have to clean restore etc rusty crap 10 times your gonna learn some good habits. Having 'crappy' disposable tools actually hurts you here. And hazard wearing white. You will know when you did a good job and it keeps your frosty.

I am somewhere in between with this stuff so long I am not frustrated. Some people are completely atrocious when working with chemicals. You end up with stuff on the ceiling.

[ataradov]

Sure, you can do all of that. Or just pay $5 PCBWay and get boards with the quality you will never get at home.

[coppercone2]

Sure, you can do all of that. Or just pay $5 PCBWay and get boards with the quality you will never get at home.

It's good skills to build up when you work with paint, do chemistry, etc. Shop skills/dexterity/mindfulness/planning.

[coppercone2]

Helpful tips: Use funnels, have empty easy to wash containers on hand to hold dirty funnels, tools, etc. Leave a bit of water on the bottom. Get a squirt bottle with water in it. Have paper towels. Have paper towels that are already unraveled and ready to pick up. Have a little tray to hold stuff over as you move it around to contain dripping. Use white when possible so you notice drips (i.e. don't have a dirty ass wooden table that hides ferric chloride stains that you rest on and get on your clothing etc). Build stuff much bigger then you think is necessary to contain bubbling, drips, fumes, etc. Work outside if possible. Have gloves on hand. Don't be greedy with gloves. Always throw stuff in approved container. Have bags ready to transfer waste into (check them for air tightness before you load it with soaked crap). Get a nice BIG oversized trash can. Don't lean on tables.

Wipe everything down when you are done and wash any rags out and then wash the clothing you used when working with chemistry when you are done (yes this means running the washing machine when its almost empty sometimes).

Learn to pour containers properly or get transfer equipment (transfer pipet etc). Don't do this when you are tired because its stressful to keep all this stuff in your head while you are working.


#1 rule I learned is to IMMEDIATELY clean up even the smallest drops even if its inefficient as fuck in terms of paper towels. This is the #1 thing that gets me, thinking I will clean up AFTER I am done and that I can avoid the problem until then to be more efficient.

[Alex Eisenhut]

In the "real old days", that's all we had :-)

And I'm very glad those times are over. We made progress, hooray. Now my clothes are not going to be stained forever with FeCl.

Stained? IME it just ate through my clothes. It did however make great stains in my bathroom sink.

For sure pencil me in the "send out files" camp. I'm pretty happy I don't have to etch at home. I also use "surfboards" and copper-clad for dead bug lash ups.

[sleemanj]

I assume you have aleady

 a printer
 etch resisting pen (sharpie at least)
 suitable plastic container
 common solvents for cleaning (methylated spirits, acetone, whatever your particular preference)
 washing soda (sodium carbonate) based laundry powder (for developing)
 a dremel or at least power drill capable of holding bits down to 0.8mm
 a couple sheets of glass and a way of clamping the PCB and artwork to it

As for consumables then assume a single sided 7x10cm PCB, personally I seldom make anything bigger

  Copper Clad Board - $1.25
  Photoresist Film - $0.50
  Tracing Paper - $0.20
  Drill bit (let's say 1 HSS one used per board and discarded) $0.50
  Etchant - depends on your desire, but lets say $0.10 "used" per board (one-off cost of say $10-20 depending on what you use)

That's about it, so consumable cost of say $2.50-$3 per PCB (USD) at the most.

Startup cost if you had NOTHING, maybe $40-100 depending on how cheap you find a used suitably working printer (around here, about $1 will get you one without much trouble but your area might not be so flush with people upgrading old printers)

The days of pre-sensitised boards are over IMO, dry film resist or toner transfer is the way to go, if you mess up, strip, reapply, start again no need to waste a whole PCB because you screwed up the developing.

 

[james_s]

I make my own boards frequently, it costs almost nothing. I do toner transfer from a laser printer onto small pieces cut from a sheet of press n peel film. I etch with hydrochloric acid mixed with some hydrogen peroxide, eventually it turns to cupric chloride that I recharge by adding a bit of fresh peroxide now and then. The hardest part was making a good drill, you need very little slop to avoid breaking the small carbide bits. I built one using a precision slide on a quickly thrown together frame made of 2x4 pieces and a piece of 3/8" plywood. It was meant to be temporary but that was about 10 years ago and I'm still using it. If you do all SMT parts you can skip the drill.

[mrpackethead]

you can make your own pcbs, and you can live in a cave if you really want to and hunt with sharpend stones.
What kind of dinosaurs live in your parts?

[coppercone2]

In the "real old days", that's all we had :-)

And I'm very glad those times are over. We made progress, hooray. Now my clothes are not going to be stained forever with FeCl.

Stained? IME it just ate through my clothes. It did however make great stains in my bathroom sink.

For sure pencil me in the "send out files" camp. I'm pretty happy I don't have to etch at home. I also use "surfboards" and copper-clad for dead bug lash ups.

dilute it more before you dispose of it in a sink

[coppercone2]

  Drill bit (let's say 1 HSS one used per board and discarded) $0.50

Awfully pessimistic about the drill bit!

[RoGeorge]

[sleemanj]

  Drill bit (let's say 1 HSS one used per board and discarded) $0.50

Awfully pessimistic about the drill bit!

If you're drilling phenolic board HSS will last longer, but FR-4 is pretty tough on them, 50-100 holes which is a fairly typical number for a PCB of that size and it's best to put another one in I find.  Blunt bits are prone to ripping off pads. 

Carbide bits of course solve this problem, but are more fragile (and a little more expensive) - that said, don't believe people who say you can't drill with a hand-held dremel type tool and carbide bits, it's not really a problem if you've got a relatively steady hand, at least for 0.8mm.

[mrpackethead]

ever tryed drilling with a .2mm bit.

[coppercone2]

  Drill bit (let's say 1 HSS one used per board and discarded) $0.50

Awfully pessimistic about the drill bit!

If you're drilling phenolic board HSS will last longer, but FR-4 is pretty tough on them, 50-100 holes which is a fairly typical number for a PCB of that size and it's best to put another one in I find.  Blunt bits are prone to ripping off pads. 

Carbide bits of course solve this problem, but are more fragile (and a little more expensive) - that said, don't believe people who say you can't drill with a hand-held dremel type tool and carbide bits, it's not really a problem if you've got a relatively steady hand, at least for 0.8mm.

harbor fright sold a carbide bit pack for 1 dollar with 8 bits in it, 2 of each size.

you can still drill in fr4 when their broke lol, it still cuts it

you can also make the pad hole smaller, for a prototype it does not matter how good the solder adhesion is. the joint will be slightly weaker and slightly higher resistance but its cheaper. Or you can make the pads ovals that adhere better and are less prone to ripping off when you use janky tools. Like long rectangles even. That extend way under the chip. If its big you can lift it partially and it will still work fine and be strong.

Gotta keep costs down. You can also peck your holes with a good drill and then use a piece of shit to do the boring if you don't mind the time.

Also if you mix tiny amounts of epoxy up with a needle it can be economical to fix pads, just put a big gob of solder on top to act as a reinforcement, maybe stick some fine copper wire in there too to act like 'rebars'.  A little manicure work can be worth the 50 cents and you have to use epoxy remains anyway if you have epoxy your undoubtedly throwing it out. Smells a little when soldered.

If you have fine snips (i recommend the fiskars spring loaded ones for gardening that are the smallest and nitride coated) and patience you can even make fairly small traces and glue them down if you are good with tweezers etc to fix botched etches.

I don't know if you can do it with something like a MSOP. Maybe. Might be worth working under microscope actually. I never developed a process for doing it though..

[coppercone2]

I also wonder if you can resharpen those HSS or even carbide tiny drill bits some how if you have a dremel drill stand that can adjust angle and a fine diamond wheel. Like a 200+ grit diamond wheel. My proxxon dremel drill stand is actually pretty precise, I wonder if you can make some kind of crude resharpener out of it to get some ROI.

Wish me luck I am going to investigate resharpening less then few MM drill bits. Probably end with foaming at the mouth..

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/how-do-you-sharpen-tiny-drills-153602/index2.html

might be doable. but seems nasty. but so is ordering stuff.

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/toolgrinding-toolgrinding-machines/693-sharpening-small-bits.html

[nctnico]

I'm talking of small PCBs, like a few inches ^2, where u mask the PCB and do stuff like put it in copper solution, that old type. I bet there's kits, and then there's good old ebay, part by part.

I'm just wondering an esitmate, for if u buy all the main stuff u need to get started at home.

Count on a couple of hundred to get a decent setup. You can probably do it cheaper but let's face it: having PCBs made in China is so cheap nowadays that it really isn't worth the effort. If you spend the time making your own PCB at paid work at a grocery store then you make more money than the PCBs will cost you.

[asmi]

It's good skills to build up when you work with paint, do chemistry, etc. Shop skills/dexterity/mindfulness/planning.

Make a board with a bunch of 0201 parts and try placing them all - this way you will train your patience and fine motor skills much more effectively.

[Gyro]

Helpful tips: Use funnels, have empty easy to wash containers on hand to hold dirty funnels, tools, etc. Leave a bit of water on the bottom. Get a squirt bottle with water in it. Have paper towels. Have paper towels that are already unraveled and ready to pick up. Have a little tray to hold stuff over as you move it around to contain dripping. Use white when possible so you notice drips (i.e. don't have a dirty ass wooden table that hides ferric chloride stains that you rest on and get on your clothing etc). Build stuff much bigger then you think is necessary to contain bubbling, drips, fumes, etc. Work outside if possible. Have gloves on hand. Don't be greedy with gloves. Always throw stuff in approved container. Have bags ready to transfer waste into (check them for air tightness before you load it with soaked crap). Get a nice BIG oversized trash can. Don't lean on tables.

Wipe everything down when you are done and wash any rags out and then wash the clothing you used when working with chemistry when you are done (yes this means running the washing machine when its almost empty sometimes).

Learn to pour containers properly or get transfer equipment (transfer pipet etc). Don't do this when you are tired because its stressful to keep all this stuff in your head while you are working.


#1 rule I learned is to IMMEDIATELY clean up even the smallest drops even if its inefficient as fuck in terms of paper towels. This is the #1 thing that gets me, thinking I will clean up AFTER I am done and that I can avoid the problem until then to be more efficient.

For occasional boards you can save a lot of mess and hassle by keeping the Ferric Chloride (for longevity) in a rectangular plastic food container (the ones with the O-ring in the lid are best) AND INDELIBLY WARNING LABELLED. Put it in a sink with an inch or so of water already in the bottom - hot if you want to accelerate the etching. Remove the lid after it's in the water. Agitate as normal while etching (don't set up too many waves in the sink).

When the board is etched, put the lid back on the container, still in the sink, and rinse everything thoroughly before letting the water out. Then repeat and dry. Having water already in the sink tends to dilute any splashes and the FeCl never has to leave the container. You can keep it going for years of infrequent use.


Having said all that, there's very little that you can't do with isolated pad matrix board, including mixed though-hole and SMD discreet / passives (and ICs with adapter breakout boards).

[james_s]

There's always some idiot who has to come in to these threads and suggest that everyone making their own boards is stuck in ancient history.

Personally I think it's a fun project in itself, and once you get the process refined you can make some pretty nice boards. I do it whenever I want to make a one-off project, I have my finished board in hours rather than weeks and the cost is pennies.