Kicad versus diptrace

[ToBeFrank]

Linux does not have a standard kernel API/ABI. From what I understand, this is an edict from Linus himself. I can understand why companies are not keen to develop drivers for Linux when the very next point kernel release could break the driver.

Again bullshit. The kernel ABI is specified. It is essentially what GCC for a particular platform provides (calling conventions, byte order, etc.). The API is specified per main kernel version. Which isn't different compared to Windows, where MS changes the driver interface with major releases, and even sometimes in between.

The kernel ABI (binary interface) is NOT stable, nor is the kernel API (programming interface). Perhaps you are thinking of the syscall interface, the kernel to userspace interface, which is stable. I suggest you do some googling and reading if you do not believe me.

[SeanB]

Simon, I use cups-pdf, and it makes a good virtual printer.

See the attached recursive print............ you do need to set it up properly ( like any real printer) and it will work with any Debian derivative.

[Simon]

Simon, I use cups-pdf, and it makes a good virtual printer.

See the attached recursive print............ you do need to set it up properly ( like any real printer) and it will work with any Debian derivative.

Yes that looks fine, but you see at that time I had no options. As a beginner I hit a blank wall. Consequently I had to turn back. Had means being really beginner and ending user-friendly I might still be using it. To be honest you can configure damn sight more in Windows, without being a command line guru. If a graphical settings interface works for everyone, why go against the grain just to be different.

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

I found this link on the stable interface discussion.

http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt

It made sense and I think is still relevant, it is talking about the 2.4 kernel.

I haven't seen an equivalent discussion, rationale from Apple or Microsoft, probably never will.

[amspire]

It seems that the best way to get into linux is from the server side.

Linux is just such a good server to work with, and Windows servers are just so bad.

I also run a number of Linux servers and workstations as Virtual Machines, and for some reason, it just seems to be way more successful then trying to run Windows virtual machines on a Windows based PC. My friends in the Windows Server support business just shake their heads when I suggest they should be looking at Virtual machines instead of clean installs on new hardware - they keep telling me that there are too many problems.

The reason I like the Virtual machines so much is the fact I can upgrade to new hardware without needing to rebuild anything. Also a full backup is just a matter of copying a few files.

None of my servers has any graphical interface, which matters less and less, as more and more programs on the server side have web interfaces.

I think trying to start with Linux as a Workstation is daunting, and you just do not understand why things are the way they are. I do not try and use Linux myself as a workstation - I use Windows, but if I was a Web developer, I like developing with open source tools and languages, so I would use a Linux workstation for sure.

Linux workstations can be great for people doing a particular type of specialized work, but Windows is much better for general purpose use. I am not a Mac user, so I am not the one to comment on Apple PCs.

Richard.

[steve_w]

Getting back to the point, I use the apple diptrace package and it sucks.  However that "sucks" part is probably my inability to use a mac.  Now they suck bigtime!!!

Diptrace as an entry level schematic / board layout program is quite good from my perspective.  I haven't tried KICAD though it might be worth a try.

Just so you know it wasn't my idea to get a mac.  :-)

regards

Steve W

[calin]

I use KICAD on Linux - since well quite a while (years now). Even when KICAD was bad I stuck to it. I agree, at the beginning it was mostly for play then now I started doing a bit mopre serious work with it ... still not great but acceptable. And yes .. the package has been improving quite a lot ... I live on the edge too with the latest builds all the time.  Probably if youdo professional work you are better off with something like DipTrace etc ...

As for Linux vs Windows ... guys there were tons of ink pored onto this subject. Hate it , love it .. whatever both Linux and Windows are here to stay.

As for Apple .. I don't hate them but just to get a shiny white box with an apple stamped on it for 4000$ is ... well STUPID.  I do have probably a 2.5K to 3K $ PC with 64GB of ram in it, crazy SSD  etc running Linux that literally screams .. last time my black super tower was running OS-X in a VM faster than the 4K apple laptop that my brother in law has. Heck .. my 2 videocards (i run on 4 monitors and a TV at the same time - 5 screens) have better speed than his whole machine at half price. So excuse me! but paying that price is just dumb.

[amspire]

As for Linux vs Windows ... guys there were tons of ink pored onto this subject. Hate it , love it .. whatever both Linux and Windows are here to stay.

That really sums it up. Windows is good in some ways, Linux is good in other ways and they both work very well. We have two very different and excellent choices available, and one is totally free - which I find great.

Then there is Apple that you can either love or hate.

Richard

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

Saw an interesting TV show about how Apple fanboys are undergoing a religious experience when they see Apple products.
Quite lighthearted and funny.  it's currently on IView "Secrets of the Superbrands" episode 1 technology.

Sorry to hijack thread.
Back to Kicad vs Diptrace.

[Vasi]

The major difference between two is that, if you are poor, you can make money with KiCAD producing professionally looking boards. This is a fact.

If you have money, then buy the commercial license for DipTrace and never look back. KiCAD can't compare with a really professional application as is DipTrace. This is also a fact.

Linux lost the competition for the Desktop in favor of Apple Mac OS X. Who said it? Miguel de Icaza, one of the GNOME developers.  A sad fact. But as a linux user, I don't care anymore - now a days I use linux for myself.

[Mechatrommer]

you are poor, you can make money with KiCAD producing professionally looking boards.
If you have money, then buy the commercial license for DipTrace and never look back.

agree with your points. i just want to add... limit your design to 300pins, use free diptrace, make money and buy diptrace professional.
off topic but, i just browsed AutoTrax, their pro full version is running $49 or something ending on 13th october 2012 this saturday, not sure if thats real or a script try to fish customers. playing around with AutoTrax seems to be more comfortable than KiCAD. with simulation capability and title block automatic, which DipTrace doesnt have (but i dont know how to use yet ), i'm willing to bet my money on AutoTrax unlimited. but i need more time to study that PCB/EDA software list thread for the best for money EDA (i think that thread deserve a sticky status). what do you think guys?

[Bored@Work]

Who said it[/url]? Miguel de Icaza, one of the GNOME developers.  A sad fact. But as a linux user, I don't care anymore - now a days I use linux for me.

I wouldn't take Mr. de Icaza's word. He is not a GNOME developer for a long time. Many years ago he left GNOME, which he founded, in anger, and made a deal with Microsoft to port parts of C# and .NET to Linux. A move which encumbers Linux with Microsoft patents. Since then he now and then opens his mug to badmouth Linux. Typical with false accusations (cf his latest statement about kernel interfaces).

KiCAD's sad GUI state has nothing to do with GNOME or Linux. KiCAD started on Windows. KiCAD's problem is the lack of talent and experience of its GUI developers. And their lack of envisioning a GUI that isn't stuck 40 years in the past, when CAD was still new. Eagle, again primarily a Windows program only much later in its lifecycle ported to Linux, suffers the same problem.

[mstevens]

off topic but, i just browsed AutoTrax, their pro full version is running $49 or something ending on 13th october 2012 this saturday, not sure if thats real or a script try to fish customers. playing around with AutoTrax seems to be more comfortable than KiCAD. with simulation capability and title block automatic, which DipTrace doesnt have (but i dont know how to use yet ), i'm willing to bet my money on AutoTrax unlimited. but i need more time to study that PCB/EDA software list thread for the best for money EDA (i think that thread deserve a sticky status). what do you think guys?

I made a post about it in buy/sell/wanted.  My goal was to alert people about the sale.  I can assure you all that Autotrax DEX is a real package.  And, there is only one version, go to the buy/sell/wanted forum and read a post from the author of the package.  I believe it is a great deal for the current asking price.  And other than being a licensed user, I am not affiliated with the company whatsoever.