New EU cheap manufacturer - AISLER

[elektronchika]

Hi,

I just found through PCB Shopper a new to me company in EU - AISLER. Has anybody used it and what is the feedback? It looks to me like they are trying to be JLC PCB in EU...

Thanks!

[Doctorandus_P]

A three step graphical tutorial:

[ Specified attachment is not available ]

[jfiresto]

My experience has been mixed. About a quarter of my unambitious jobs need to be redone, including the last two that they have not. Their customer service has been unpredictable and ranged from good to non-existent.

[nctnico]

Hi,

I just found through PCB Shopper a new to me company in EU - AISLER. Has anybody used it and what is the feedback? It looks to me like they are trying to be JLC PCB in EU...

Forget about Aisler. They can't even process gerber files.

[m98]

Don't rely on them, my last order came over a month late and I had to pay €€€ for express service at another manufacturer to get the prototype ready in time...

[jfiresto]

...Forget about Aisler. They can't even process gerber files.

Aisler has always only gotten zipped Gerbers from me. I think they can process them – just with a bit of stochastic noise between the data and the physical boards. For example, the Gerbers will specify four un-plated mounting holes, and one comes out plated for no reason that you can recover from the code. Aisler are the only ones who have done that in my twenty some years of buying pooled PCBs.

[Warhawk]

Hi,

I just found through PCB Shopper a new to me company in EU - AISLER. Has anybody used it and what is the feedback? It looks to me like they are trying to be JLC PCB in EU...

Thanks!

Yes, I do use them regularly also for business. My colleagues have had some umplesant experiences. I may have been lucky but out of about 30 orders I have never gotten something wrong. I also stick with quite moderate design rules (28/12mil vias, 10-8mil traces, I go down to 6 when I need to). It is my favorite PCB supplier. I am happy they are based in EU.

[JPortici]

I used them in 2020 for a couple of PCBs when i couldn't get any from china.
Never used them for assembly because it seemed too much effort to set up / charged too much.
Nice boards, but the overall experience was meh, I still prefer JLC for prototypes

I appreciate what they're trying to do but all the marketing is a bit too cringe for my taste

[Warhawk]

Just FYI, I quoted assembling for a small PCB and it was 1/3rd of what we usually pay to other supplier here in Germany. Asigning parts on the web and having a posibility to source them with our development silicon makes it attractive. We also tried to get some PCBs assembled in China but the experience was horendous. Even our Chinese colleague complained. I really have trust issues with assembling in China. I want to make sure that if I want to have X7R panasonic caps on the PCB, I get them.

[woody]

I use Aisler since a couple of years for bare PCB's and for assembly.

My experience with bare PCB's is good. What you see is what you get, not too expensive, easy, fast, never had any problems.

My experience with assembled PCB's is a bit mixed; sometimes I cannot find a flaw in a series of a 100 PCB's and the next time half of the boards in a series of 24 have components that are shoddily soldered or misplaced, with shorted pins (admitted, with some 2.5x2.5mm 9-pin DFN packages) while the other half is perfect. These problems seem to arise because they use many different outfits to do their assembly; some are better than others.

On the upside, Aisler is a German company that has their work for Europe done in Europe. They invoice after shipping. They are reachable by phone which I like very much. They react to email and discussing a board or complaining about their quality control seems to be taken seriously. And indeed, as @warhawk above already mentioned, you can send them unobtainable parts that you have in your own stock and their system for that actually works ok.

YMMV, as even MMV, but I still like using them.

[Uky]

Approached AISLER regarding a possible order about a year ago.
Wanted to submit standard Gerber 274X generated by Cadence.

Never got an intelligible answer.

Gave up.

[Doctorandus_P]

I'm not exactly sure what is going on with Aisler.
There are plenty of customers who have good to reasonable experiences, but I also see a relatively big amount of complaints.
I believe they are a legit company and doing their best, but it's also a relatively small company (they don't have their own production) and are over stressed.
Prices from Aisler are a bit more expensive than the average "asian PCB baker", but for an EU company they are quite cheap for low quantities.

I have not made a PCB with them, but I am biased towards giving them some slack because they are the biggest KiCad sponsor (Oshpark is also a significant KiCad sponsor).

[Warhawk]

I'm not exactly sure what is going on with Aisler.
There are plenty of customers who have good to reasonable experiences, but I also see a relatively big amount of complaints.
I believe they are a legit company and doing their best, but it's also a relatively small company (they don't have their own production) and are over stressed.
Prices from Aisler are a bit more expensive than the average "asian PCB baker", but for an EU company they are quite cheap for low quantities.

I have not made a PCB with them, but I am biased towards giving them some slack because they are the biggest KiCad sponsor (Oshpark is also a significant KiCad sponsor).

I understand it the way they have a very optimized automated process without a CAM operator. You have to folow it which is the price for the low cost production. As soon as you deviate from what they do (format, design rules) you're asking for a trouble.
Btw everyone can compare Aisler with e.g. Betalayout DE. Also a pool service, also manufactured in EU. Better support, higher price.

Aisler allows me to get affordable PCBs for my hobby and also for simple prototypes at work (DC-DC converters, small development boards, reference designs, proof-of-the-concept) without going to China.

[Doctorandus_P]

Aisler also has 4 vacancies, including two for software engineers.
https://about.aisler.net/jobs.html

This also seems to confirm they have some "growing pains" but are doing the best they can.

[nctnico]

I'm not exactly sure what is going on with Aisler.
There are plenty of customers who have good to reasonable experiences, but I also see a relatively big amount of complaints.
I believe they are a legit company and doing their best, but it's also a relatively small company (they don't have their own production) and are over stressed.
Prices from Aisler are a bit more expensive than the average "asian PCB baker", but for an EU company they are quite cheap for low quantities.

I have not made a PCB with them, but I am biased towards giving them some slack because they are the biggest KiCad sponsor (Oshpark is also a significant KiCad sponsor).

I understand it the way they have a very optimized automated process without a CAM operator. You have to folow it which is the price for the low cost production. As soon as you deviate from what they do (format, design rules) you're asking for a trouble.

But in the end you'll need a person to look at the design files & BOM to see if the components are the right ones and so on. Recently I went to quite a bit of trouble with a professional low volume prototyping service because they imported the BOM wrong and thus missed several low tempco. 0.1% resistors for which they used regular resistors. I'm extremely happy I caught their mistake but I could have looked passed it and send out inferior products to my customer. Bottom line: as a prototype service you can use the customer to do final checks but that is not why I'm paying someone to do the assembly for me!

Basically Aisler doesn't want to deal with Gerber files; only with design files. Which also leads to the question whether you want to handover the design files. You don't know where they end up. As others already noticed, Aisler isn't doing any production themselves. They just shove files to an assembler that happens to have some spare time. This also complicates things when something goes wrong. You won't be talking to someone who knows about electronics assembly and/or what is wrong specifically in case of problems.

[Uky]

The decision about not wanting to accept gerber 274X is to some extent understandable. But competitors like eg. JLPCB does that perfectly as long
as the customer adhers to their naming conventions. JLPCB's web-based Gerber viewer is excellent. You get what you see and you are the judge
as to if the result is acceptable.

If AISLER now does not accept Gerbers, why don't they then accept ODB++ or the other open standard format IPC-2581?

...

[nctnico]

The decision about not wanting to accept gerber 274X is to some extent understandable. But competitors like eg. JLPCB does that perfectly as long
as the customer adhers to their naming conventions. JLPCB's web-based Gerber viewer is excellent. You get what you see and you are the judge
as to if the result is acceptable.

If AISLER now does not accept Gerbers, why don't they then accept ODB++ or the other open standard format IPC-2581?

Actually, JLCPCb doesn't really care about their naming convention. Just as long as it is clear what is what. If there is something like, top, bot(tom), innerX, silk, paste, outline, drill in the filename, it will be OK. For multilayers it is a good habit to put numbers in the copper layers (top layer = 1).

ODB++ makes sense as a package format for the layout, drill and placement but does not include full BOM data.

[JPortici]

FYI you CAN use gerbers for pcb manufacturing, that exactly how i ordered from them (and i tried yesterday just to be sure it's still supported). But not for assembly
Also, Diptrace not supported for assembly for some reason (probably their subcontractors don't handle it?).
Not that i would ever give the project files to a third party i don't trust.

ODB++ makes sense as a package format for the layout, drill and placement but does not include full BOM data.

BOM has to be converted to their internal format anyway, using their internal partnumbers.
JLCPCB make us do it which is one of the reasons the service is so fast

[ebastler]

Aisler also has 4 vacancies, including two for software engineers.
This also seems to confirm they have some "growing pains" but are doing the best they can.

Unfortunately they have suffered from those growing pains for three years now. There are older discussions on the forum, e.g. here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/has-anyone-used-aisler-net/.

Personally, I have tried Aisler several times because I would have preferred a good vendor in Europe, but have gone back to JLCPCB entirely.

This is sad. I want Aisler to be good, since they offer a combination of pricing, features and turnaround time I can't get anywhere else in Europe. But they seriously mess with my Gerbers without even telling me, they don't reply to emails, and send me stupid spam instead. 

[Warhawk]

I believe this still works, doesn't it?
https://community.aisler.net/t/traditional-gerber/99

Regarding sharing the files - well, if you use the cheapest possible pool service in Europe you probably do not do a design for ESA's lunar vehicle.

BTW: For corporate prototyping, we also use state of the art, high-end PCB vendors from the US as well as from Germany. We have issues with wrong assembly quite often.

[Uky]

The information presented above was new to me. As I value a possibility to use a european manufacturer very much,
I will approach Aisler again next time with design files following their naming conventions. (In Gerber...)

 

[thinkfat]

I have used Aisler in the past, for PCBs, not yet for assembly. The "HD" service boards were always good, but I had a few precision issues with drill holes being offset against copper layers and solder mask. Nothing to make the PCB unusable, though. The "Blitz" service is really fast, but has a few annoying limitations. No internal slots is my main grief, as this also excludes oblong holes - pretty common in all kinds of PCB connectors (DC barrel jacks, many USB receptacles, ...). Contact with their support has always been good.

[wraper]

Ordered from the once, result was OK. However their support is nonexistent. Sent questions on their website and to their email, never got an answer. Even cheapest Chinese fabs always reply.

[SiliconWizard]

Ordered from the once, result was OK. However their support is nonexistent. Sent questions on their website and to their email, never got an answer. Even cheapest Chinese fabs always reply.

Good to know. Are we sure they do not even subcontract to asian companies? Are they using only european facilities? (Which if so are probably in the countries where labour is cheapest such as Hungary or Romania?)

[Warhawk]

Ordered from the once, result was OK. However their support is nonexistent. Sent questions on their website and to their email, never got an answer. Even cheapest Chinese fabs always reply.

Good to know. Are we sure they do not even subcontract to asian companies? Are they using only european facilities? (Which if so are probably in the countries where labour is cheapest such as Hungary or Romania?)

AFAIK they do not subcontract asian companies. They used to have an overview where they make what. I can not find it now. I remember some PCBs were made in Czechia, the rest in Germany.

Edit: It seems now they do everything in Germany https://community.aisler.net/t/pcb-specifications/101