Electronics > PCB/EDA/CAD

PCB + PCBA in USA or Europe

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nctnico:

--- Quote from: Warhawk on February 04, 2022, 08:44:39 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 04, 2022, 07:32:47 pm ---
--- Quote from: Warhawk on February 04, 2022, 11:03:14 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 03, 2022, 11:20:38 am ---I tried to get an assembly quotation from Aisler but they can't deal with Excel files + Gerbers and the support is useless. Smells like amateur hour to me.

--- End quote ---
Well, you get what you pay for. You can't expect state of the art service, quick turnaround and prices of China. If you provide just gerbers and excel, there has to be a CAM operator putting this together. This is easily 80-100 Euro/hour. That's how much a qualified personnel costs in Europe.

--- End quote ---
How is that any different compared to using an Altium or Kicad file? One way or another they need to convert the output into Gerbers (or any other photoplot format), pick & place data and bill of materials. I'd say loading a file into Altium and getting the production files from it is more work compared to getting the ready-to-go production data. For example: Eurocircuits, Seeed and JLCPCB have no problems with using a bunch of Gerbers and drill file to produce a PCB correctly. Aisler has no idea what to do with the exact same dataset!

--- End quote ---
I have professional experience with BetaLayout. They are not going to touch assembly unless I provide them data in the exactly same format as they want. And by "exactly" I mean even columns and rows in excel. I remember this because I had to re-upload data for some of my projects before.
And the difference is big. Both KiCad and Altium are known formats and they can export exactly what they want with a single click.

--- End quote ---
Knowing Altium I'm sure you can't since fields may have different names; Altium designs can be a real mess where it comes to manufacturing data. Also their format is binary so even if you have an Altium design, you still need to load it and export it into Ascii format before you can run any automated script on the design. All in all my conclusion is that Aisler has some more development work to do in order to really streamline their process. It is kind of odd they went to supporting PCB packages first before supporting the most basic manufacturing process using gerbers + drill + bom. Like companies are going to handover their design files to a third party...

dunkemhigh:

--- Quote ---It is kind of odd they went to supporting PCB packages first before supporting the most basic manufacturing process using gerbers + drill + bom.
--- End quote ---

Might be because they farm work out, so they might need to provide different files depending on where they go - perhaps one place wasnt ODB++, another gerberx2 or whatever. Rather than have the punter provide all possible variations, they just run off the required one from the PCB package.

nctnico:
That sounds unlikely to me. It could be that a lot of people are not able to produce the right Gerbers from their package and they want to catch that. But that shouldn't exclude a traditional Gerber workflow. Also: what to do if the design doesn't meet the track width/clearance requirement? Who is going to fix that? For example: Eurocircuits and Seeed (IIRC) have pretty sophisticated online Gerber/drill/routing checking that catch 99% of the potential problems before submitting the design for production and it takes them zero effort.

In my experience the use of ODB++ is rare. So far I have had 3 projects in my entire career for which the assembler asked for ODB++ and those cases where for complicated PCB layouts far exceeding what Aisler is offering. Other than that, Gerber has never been a problem for the many PCB manufacturers that have produced my PCB designs.

Uky:
Some time ago, I tried getting a quotation from Aisler using Gerbers as input data.
The response was late and their comments "avoiding". I can understand that it is so much easier
using the board files from eg. KiCad or Altium as input but the fact that they did not accept
compressed standardized formats such as ODBC++ or IPC-DPMX (IPC2581) was a disappointment.

Warhawk:

--- Quote from: nctnico on February 04, 2022, 09:23:34 pm ---
--- Quote from: Warhawk on February 04, 2022, 08:44:39 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 04, 2022, 07:32:47 pm ---
--- Quote from: Warhawk on February 04, 2022, 11:03:14 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 03, 2022, 11:20:38 am ---I tried to get an assembly quotation from Aisler but they can't deal with Excel files + Gerbers and the support is useless. Smells like amateur hour to me.

--- End quote ---
Well, you get what you pay for. You can't expect state of the art service, quick turnaround and prices of China. If you provide just gerbers and excel, there has to be a CAM operator putting this together. This is easily 80-100 Euro/hour. That's how much a qualified personnel costs in Europe.

--- End quote ---
How is that any different compared to using an Altium or Kicad file? One way or another they need to convert the output into Gerbers (or any other photoplot format), pick & place data and bill of materials. I'd say loading a file into Altium and getting the production files from it is more work compared to getting the ready-to-go production data. For example: Eurocircuits, Seeed and JLCPCB have no problems with using a bunch of Gerbers and drill file to produce a PCB correctly. Aisler has no idea what to do with the exact same dataset!

--- End quote ---
I have professional experience with BetaLayout. They are not going to touch assembly unless I provide them data in the exactly same format as they want. And by "exactly" I mean even columns and rows in excel. I remember this because I had to re-upload data for some of my projects before.
And the difference is big. Both KiCad and Altium are known formats and they can export exactly what they want with a single click.

--- End quote ---
Knowing Altium I'm sure you can't since fields may have different names; Altium designs can be a real mess where it comes to manufacturing data. Also their format is binary so even if you have an Altium design, you still need to load it and export it into Ascii format before you can run any automated script on the design. All in all my conclusion is that Aisler has some more development work to do in order to really streamline their process. It is kind of odd they went to supporting PCB packages first before supporting the most basic manufacturing process using gerbers + drill + bom. Like companies are going to handover their design files to a third party...

--- End quote ---
Well, I use Altium. I can simply just drag-n-drop Altium PCB file to the website and order the board. I used to do Gerbers but I don't bother anymore. Time is money and I do just small prototype boards. I don't think Aisler developed some Altium parser. I can imagine that they have a solution directly from Altium (as well as betalayout and many other sites that directly support Altium file upload). And with that, they can have just *.outJob that generates all the data.

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