Author Topic: Soluboard-Hot water soluble PCB substrate  (Read 2279 times)

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Offline djsbTopic starter

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Soluboard-Hot water soluble PCB substrate
« on: July 28, 2023, 01:15:38 pm »
Ive just been reading up on this hot (90 degrees plus) water-soluble PCB substrate.

https://www.jivamaterials.com/

I might contact them to see if we can try out any 9" by 12" copper clad boards that they may or may not develop in the future. They can only do up to 2 layer PCB's which is fine for the prototypes that I work with. What are your thoughts?
David
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University Electronics Technician, London PIC,CCS C,Arduino,Kicad, Altium Designer,LPKF S103,S62 Operator, Electronics instructor. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Credited Kicad French to English translator.
 

Online Ian.M

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Re: Soluboard-Hot water soluble PCB substrate
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2023, 01:43:58 pm »
* What's the insulation resistance likely to be after adsorbing ambient humidity for six months? 
* How resistant is it to common solvents used for PCB work (e.g. IPA, flux remover)?
* How well does it stand up to rework?
* How strong is it?

I suspect its likely to be considerably worse than SRBP PCBS, which can be a total nightmare to work with.

I think that without a waste management system specific to this product, that can handle the likely contamination of the biodegradable materials with heavy metals, its just greenwashing. 

FR4 and similar epoxy GFRP PCBs can already be economically recycled - grind them up, mechanically and chemically separate the metals, which then get processed as an ore concentrate, and use the epoxy/glass residue as filler in applications as diverse as road surfaces, structural concrete, and garden furniture.  Unfortunately its more profitable to export PCBs for 'recycling' to illegal eWaste dumps in 3rd world countries where street kids burn the PCBs to recover used components which then re-enter the market as fakes and cause us all problems.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2023, 01:47:22 pm by Ian.M »
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Soluboard-Hot water soluble PCB substrate
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2023, 09:38:51 pm »
Adding glass to road surfaces makes them worse as they are more slippery. https://www.pothole.info/2011/07/glassphalt-have-roads-made-with-recycled-glass-changed-pavement/

If you read the FAQs on the site it sounds like its not exactly near complete yet.

Quote
What is Soluboard® made out of?
Soluboard® is manufactured by impregnating natural fibres with a polymer and a halogen-free flame retardant.

Is Soluboard® susceptible to moisture?
Jiva is in the process of ensuring that Soluboard® is compatible with aqueous PCB fabrication processes. Jiva is also engineering Soluboard® to be resistant to high humidity environments.

How is circuitry applied to Soluboard®?
Jiva is optimising Soluboard® so that it can be used with additive methods (conductive silver ink and copper sintering) and subtractive methods (traditional copper foil etching).
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Offline Infraviolet

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Re: Soluboard-Hot water soluble PCB substrate
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2023, 10:51:54 pm »
In what way is this desirable for prototyping? I can see a waste reduction end goal for mass produced devices (at the cost of having devices which probably have a shorter lifespan, because I guess this board probably dissolves away slowly under much lower stresses than the 90 celsius water to dissolve it fast) but that doesn't do anything about the copper or the solder or the components on the board, just removes one part from the waste produced. But prototyping is by definition a small-scale matter, so why would one need to have easily disposable boards, prototypes aren't mass manufactured consumable items being thrown out regulary, they area tiny quantity of items which you probably keep on a shelf forever after their usefulness is ended anyway just incase you want to refer back to them.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Soluboard-Hot water soluble PCB substrate
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2023, 07:55:33 pm »
In what way is this desirable for prototyping? I can see a waste reduction end goal for mass produced devices (at the cost of having devices which probably have a shorter lifespan, because I guess this board probably dissolves away slowly under much lower stresses than the 90 celsius water to dissolve it fast) but that doesn't do anything about the copper or the solder or the components on the board, just removes one part from the waste produced. But prototyping is by definition a small-scale matter, so why would one need to have easily disposable boards, prototypes aren't mass manufactured consumable items being thrown out regulary, they area tiny quantity of items which you probably keep on a shelf forever after their usefulness is ended anyway just incase you want to refer back to them.

Cutting/machining the board might be easier for prototyping purposes.
Glass dust is not amazing to work with.
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