Which program to design PCBs?

[Merlysys]

Which of the ones below to go with for a person who haven't used PCB design programs for 30 yrs? (yes there were programs 30 yrs ago!)
For simple circuit with <20 components, PCB to have traces on both sides but components on one side only, no fancy layers/vias etc.

Free/Open source
Circuit Maker (Altium) - http://www.circuitmaker.com/
DesignSpark (RS comp) - http://www.designspark.com/
EasyEDA - http://easyEDA.com/editor (web based)
FreePCB - http://www.freepcb.com/
Fritzing - http://fritzing.org/
gEDA - http://www.geda-project.org/
KiCAD - http://www.kicad-pcb.org/display/KICAD/KiCad+EDA+Software+Suite
Minimal Board Editor - http://www.suigyodo.com/online/e/index.htm (English, Japanese)
Open Circuit Design - http://opencircuitdesign.com/
Orcad DOS (old) - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/OldDosOrcad/
PCB Elegance - http://www.pcbelegance.com/
PCBWeb Designer - http://www.pcbweb.com/ (Windows only)
Protel (Altium) AutoTrax/EasyTrax (DOS Based) - http://www.altium.com/community/downloads/en/downloads_home.cfm
TCI - http://b.urbani.free.fr/ (French)
ZenitPCB - http://www.zenitpcb.com/Index.html

[Wilksey]

Out of your list I would say either Design Spark or KiCAD.

But you should download a few, or look on-line at video tutorials to see which ones you may get on best with.

[apelly]

I use kicad. It's fine. Really.

If you look at some of the other threads on this you'll see that there isn't any consensus. They all have their quirks. And everyone will tell you what an incompetent you must be for using whatever your favourite one is.

Expect a steep learning curve whatever you choose. There is inconsistent lingo between software, which doesn't help when switching between them either.

If you run with kicad, take the time to learn the keyboard shortcuts. Chris from The Amp Hour has made some great youtube videos to get you started with kicad.

[Merlysys]

I decided to go with KiCad, partly its not so 'corporate' and I listen to the AmpHour.

Are the youtube videos made by Chris the easiest or are there other ways to learn it? How about manual and such? I know I can search for these but you may know what to try and what to avoid.

[con-f-use]

The "getting to Blinky" by Chris series is all you need. It's very short and gives a good basic knowledge. The rest comes with usage. He has a full tutorial, but that had less information per time - not worth it in my opinion.

[Wilksey]

Yup, Chris' tutorial is very good.

Check out the "official" tutorial link page for more resources: http://kicad-pcb.org/help/tutorials/

I downloaded the latest PDF's in the "help"->"documentation" section on the website as it is more up to date than that released with the executable download.
http://kicad-pcb.org/help/documentation/

Only a matter of time before a book comes out!

[ivan747]

Don't use FreePCB. It's tied to a single PCB manufactured and the format is proprietary. Once you design a PCB using that you're giving the manufacturing to them. They weren't cheap either, last time I checked.

[kaadam]

I think you missed out EAGLE. It's free for a limited board size, and it's very easy to use for simply designs.

[con-f-use]

And its slowly dying.

[sleemanj]

You missed DipTrace, I would say that it is probably the easiest to get into of the "professional" packages, and the free version is pretty generous.

[Dago]

You missed DipTrace, I would say that it is probably the easiest to get into of the "professional" packages, and the free version is pretty generous.

This. Definitely recommend DipTrace for all basic/simple stuff (and even more complicated stuff nowadays too, since the beta has high-speed differential signal routing etc.).

[Karel]

Eagle.

- It's free for small board sizes and max two layers.
- Easy to use.
- Very stable, runs on Linux, Mac and windows.
- It's the defacto industry standard.
- It has the biggest community.
- You'll find easily help/support/tutorials everywhere.
- Lot's of free libraries, schematics and boards available to learn from.

[con-f-use]

- It's the defacto industry standard.
- It has the biggest community.

Sorry, but no. Altium is more widely used especially by professionals.

[jwm_]

Is there a better way to specify schematics than in a schematic editor?

What I'd like is a specification language that lets me write how my chips connect in a text editor so I can version control the file, use macros, and so forth. Then i can compile it to a netlist/BOM suitable for loading into a pcb editor.

I can load it into a GUI schematic layout tool that will let me aethetically lay it out and annotate it if for some reason I want a pretty schematic, but the actual electrical design work is something I would want a domain specific language for.

[Karel]

- It's the defacto industry standard.
- It has the biggest community.

Sorry, but no. Altium is more widely used especially by professionals.

You sound very convinced. Can you support your claim with some numbers?

Problem is that there are not much numbers to find. And if you find them, they are measured in gross revenue that does not reflect the number of seats.
Anyway, speaking in terms of revenue, Zuken is the biggest.

One of the reasons we use Eagle is because we have to be as much as compatibel with other companies.
I immediately agree that there is no clear winner but, at least based on our observations, Eagle seems to be most used.
Wether or not those companies are "professionals", I can't discuss that here.

[Wilksey]

I use Eagle and Altium, and although I like both packages, and for some projects due to license restrictions with Altium seats I use KiCAD for simple things, but I can tell you that certainly in the UK, for a PCB "professional" Altium is the one companies always ask for experience in, occasionally OrCAD.  But I have found that if you know how to do PCB design, switching packages is quite simple and learning how a particular package does it over the other one you are used to, I can switch between several without any issues,  I guess the question is are you learning one to go forward into a company or start up one yourself?

[briselec]

Is there a better way to specify schematics than in a schematic editor?

What I'd like is a specification language that lets me write how my chips connect in a text editor so I can version control the file, use macros, and so forth. Then i can compile it to a netlist/BOM suitable for loading into a pcb editor.

I can load it into a GUI schematic layout tool that will let me aethetically lay it out and annotate it if for some reason I want a pretty schematic, but the actual electrical design work is something I would want a domain specific language for.

You can do that with gEDA. Don't know about the others.

[Karel]

Is there a better way to specify schematics than in a schematic editor?

What I'd like is a specification language that lets me write how my chips connect in a text editor so I can version control the file, use macros, and so forth. Then i can compile it to a netlist/BOM suitable for loading into a pcb editor.

I can load it into a GUI schematic layout tool that will let me aethetically lay it out and annotate it if for some reason I want a pretty schematic, but the actual electrical design work is something I would want a domain specific language for.

Eagle can do that.

The EAGLE User Language can be used to access the EAGLE data structures and to create a wide variety of output files.
To use this feature you have to write a User Language Program (ULP), and then execute it.

http://www.cadsoftusa.com/downloads/file/ulp720_en.pdf

You can also use script files: http://www.cadsoftusa.com/fileadmin/journalist/Documents/V7.3_manual_en.pdf

[Muxr]

If you want free, KiCad is the way to go. Honestly unless there is something specific you need that KiCad doesn't have, I'd go with KiCad over all other options.

KiCad has some quirks that are pretty annoying and that will get you stumped at first, but once you get over them (and there are plenty of resources out there to get you trough it) it's a surprisingly well thought out solution. The main issus are with setting up component libraries and footprint libraries but once you get trough it the keyboard shortcuts are well thought out, and once you design one board you can really get into a groove and be pretty quick with it on future projects. Just gotta stick with it, it gets better.

Time is valuable, so why bother with crippled versions of commercial software, and then have to learn a different tool when you decide you don't want to pay for a full version just because you need a board 1cm bigger than what's allowed. You don't want to have to redo your project(s) in a new tool. KiCad is pretty powerful, it's free, it's multiplatform and it has no restrictions. Its file format is also really easy to hand edit or script, which if you're into any sort of automation and scripting, is really nice.

It's backed by CERN and it has a pretty good user base in the OSH community, so it's not going anywhere. Really it's a no brainer. Stick with it and by the time you master it, you will always have it in your toolbox.

[con-f-use]

I couldn't have put it better, Mux. 

[MarkF]

I've been using DipTrace for a little over two weeks now.  Although the free version limits you to 300 pins, I have found it very easy to learn and become productive. 

Both Eagle and KiCad have a high learning curve.  Maybe I will try them again if I run into problems with DipTrace.

[Bassman59]

Both Eagle and KiCad have a high learning curve.  Maybe I will try them again if I run into problems with DipTrace.

Seems to me that all CAD programs have a shallow learning curve, especially when it comes to advanced features.

[monksod]

No love for PCB Elegance? http://etim.net.au/pcbelegance/

It seems very capable solid program & easy to use (and free!), does anyone use it?