eevBLAB #74 - 5G Causes EVERYTHING!

[EEVblog]

5G Causes EVERYTHING and must be stopped!
Basically just 1 hour of laughing at 5G nutjobs and the "5G Space Appeal"

SpaceX Starlink Satellite Transmitter Tech Specs: https://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=1569860

[bd139]

I'm going to enjoy the YT thread comments on this one 

[SeanB]

Here in South Africa you still have 2G cell services available, but only in rural areas where they do not have the actual user density to make an upgrade worth while. Also only the one provider, using equipment they bought at scrap metal prices from the other operators as they were upgrading networks. As it breaks it gets replaced with 3G equipment, also used equipment, but not worth spending the money to replace the old stuff.

The rest are rolling out 4G to replace 3G, and will probably only deploy 5G in areas of high use density, as South Africa, like Australia, is a big place, and relatively low population density.

Currently -91dBm signal strength from the tower 9m above me, and -71dBm from the other network provider 100m away. Think I have more worries from lead and cyclic aromatics from car emissions than I have from any other thing.

By the way, the thing you are most likely going to die from is cancer, especially in the developed world, and in countries with more or less adequate healthcare. Not because cancer rates are increasing, but more due to more people actually living to the point where all other reasons that would have killed them off, like diabetes, heart attack, stroke, measles, smallpox, polio, influenza, any bacterial infection, childbirth, broken bones, tonsillitus, dental issues, or intestinal upsets like cholera.

Remove all the things that would, even a century ago, have resulted in around half the population not surviving past 60, and the thing that will kill you are the things that are the slowest to do so. As well detection rates are improving, so you can tell a person has cancer while the cancer is still small, and then treat it with a moderate amount of success, instead of the old method, which was finding out that the person had cancer either at the most advanced stage, or in a post mortem.

Most of the people I know of who have died did so from cancer, except for those who died from HIV, TB or from violent incidents. More because they all had controlled the other ways to die, and got old, mostly well into the 80's and low 90's.

[rrinker]

 I don't know who is the more anti-science: Flat Earthers, Anti-Vaxxers, or the Anti-5G crowd.

Unreal what I've been seeing in my facebook feeds lately.

And one of them also added a tidbit about smart meters being radioactive - if you live in my area, have a basement, and are down there with a Geiger counter and DON'T have a radon evacuation system, guess what you are reading? The geological formation in this part of the US is a natural radon source, and most houses are dug down to have basements around here. It's nearly pointless to have radon testing done - unless your basement walls are so porous as to be useless at being walls, you WILL have radon without a mitigation system.

[johnlsenchak]

It's  like the nuts  for years  saying that  putting  your cell phone up against  your head on the 4G   network  will give you brain  cancer   because of the RF  "woo-woo"  radiation  waves   


I mean   from the  early  fifties  to the  two  thousands,  televisions    stations pumped  out  tons  of  RF  signal on the  analog  channels  and no one complained  about the dangers of the  RF signals  for all those years.

[Electro Detective]

I don't know who is the more anti-science: Flat Earthers, Anti-Vaxxers, or the Anti-5G crowd.

Without any real medical, biology or chem/pharma education and experience under your belt,

you would trust someone to vaccinate you based on scare tactics and  "play it safe and follow the herd" mindset ?


Flat Earthery and 5G conspiracy clownage aside, mostly Click On This..stupidity that can't directly harm,
how are you going to laugh off chemicals being injected into you, and the people around you, that none know anything about?

Vaccines have been known to go south BADLY,
and some are nothing better than colored water 'snake oil' placebos,
or a soon neutralized chem mix in the bloodstream, the body soon rids itself of quickly

i.e. anti-vaxxers get my    bored attention way before all the other conspiracy flogging knuckleheads 

YMMV/EMMV 

[agtrbt]

Exactly, broadcast services use kilowatts to megawatts of power with good penetration.

I predict their next conspiracy is about thermal noise, secret woo woo information hidden encrypted in random noise......

But I do agree with the conspiracy that some Asian authoritarian governments use 5G and IoT to do mass surveillance, political policing and censorship.

[bd139]

That’s not specific to 5G though. You can’t do anything in those countries without certain apps and those have location awareness and run well above the application layer. The 5G bit is almost entirely irrelevant to the problem because any transport layer or below is irrelevant.

[Lord of nothing]

Well 5G will and should be used here in Austria to boost Landline DSL Service because the dont replace the crappy old Cable from the 50is who just slow speed DSL goes truth.
Another think is here you get a damn cheap Flat over Cellular Service who is cheaper than DSL. Many people use them for there 2nd Weekend House to.

The claim to need it for Autonomous Cars. Why Autonomous Cars should need a Internet Connection I dont know... What I guess to Upload all the Tracking sshhttt also realtime Video and Images from the Passenger.

What make me concern is the 60Ghz Freq! 

[bd139]

Why? First it's absorbed by atmospheric oxygen which give it hardly any realistic range (intentionally!). Secondly it's limited to approx 10mW TX power in the UK at least with 30dBi antenna gain which is quite frankly bugger all. You couldn't warm up a gnat's testicles with it.

This one will get the paranoids going  . You're not allowed to use it within 6km of these grid coordinates in the UK

Site 1: 57° 21' 3.6",-07° 23' 36.6"
Site 2: 51° 37' 16.8",-04° 58' 21"
Site 3: 52° 38' 1.8", -00° 36' 22.8"

[rrinker]

 OK, not being a Brit, I give up - looks like some sort of military installation at each of those coordinates, although the last looks more like a leftover WWII relic in rather dilapidated condition. Unless it's hiding some missile silos.

 The autonomous car needs an internet connection to entertain the passengers, since no one has to drive, what are you going to do, sit there? Fire up your laptop and get some work done on the commute to work. Stuck in traffic? No problem, no lost time. Of course when we reach critical mass with truly autonomous cars, there will end up being new workplace rules. "I was logged in and working by 8, even if I didn't actually arrive at the office until 9:30" isn't going to cut it. 

[bd139]

It's early warning radar installations.

Actually the location logging has saved me before. I went to McDonalds one fine morning and got some coffee on the way somewhere. On the way back I said fuck it and got a bic mac from the same place. Mmm cardboard. Alas their stupid "max 2 hour parking" thing decided I'd been there the entire day because I was tailed by a van and dispatched the parking trolls to fine me. I sent them a screen cap of google location services attached to a shitogram and they apologised. 

[nctnico]

Well 5G will and should be used here in Austria to boost Landline DSL Service because the dont replace the crappy old Cable from the 50is who just slow speed DSL goes truth.

Bingo. 5G speed is not just for cell phones but also to replace wired internet connections to homes. And this is not something new! Many years ago I visited Indonesia. Using a 3G modem was much less expensive compared to DSL and the speed was even better.

Autonomous cars (and non autonomous with a high level of driving assistance) need to communicate between eachother in the near future (it is already happening on a small scale) which is where 5G also comes in handy as well.

[Electro Detective]

It's early warning radar installations.

Actually the location logging has saved me before. I went to McDonalds one fine morning and got some coffee on the way somewhere. On the way back I said fuck it and got a bic mac from the same place. Mmm cardboard. Alas their stupid "max 2 hour parking" thing decided I'd been there the entire day because I was tailed by a van and dispatched the parking trolls to fine me. I sent them a screen cap of google location services attached to a shitogram and they apologised. 

@bd139  the apology means nothing unless there's some serious meal pack vouchery tossed in

to stifle any thoughts of letters of complaint to Maccass HQ and their subbied parking goons


They wasted your time after deemed guilty till DIY proven innocent, for parking in their space to spend money on their nutrition enriched products 

Bottomless coffee and shakes for 12 months would be my lowest 'sign the waiver and walk away' terms   

[Lord of nothing]

Autonomous cars (and non autonomous with a high level of driving assistance) need to communicate between eachother in the near future (it is already happening on a small scale) which is where 5G also comes in handy as well.

Well why does the not use the Frequency for that car2car communication? 
I am to lazy to look up which one is for. Its some Ghz Freq.

60Ghz - 5G is mostly to spy on Cars and there passenger. Like a Tesla who have atleast 1 Cam filming the Passenger. 

[bd139]

It's early warning radar installations.

Actually the location logging has saved me before. I went to McDonalds one fine morning and got some coffee on the way somewhere. On the way back I said fuck it and got a bic mac from the same place. Mmm cardboard. Alas their stupid "max 2 hour parking" thing decided I'd been there the entire day because I was tailed by a van and dispatched the parking trolls to fine me. I sent them a screen cap of google location services attached to a shitogram and they apologised. 

@bd139  the apology means nothing unless there's some serious meal pack vouchery tossed in

to stifle any thoughts of letters of complaint to Maccass HQ and their subbied parking goons


They wasted your time after deemed guilty till DIY proven innocent, for parking in their space to spend money on their nutrition enriched products 

Bottomless coffee and shakes for 12 months would be my lowest 'sign the waiver and walk away' terms   

I was a contractor at the time so I just charged my time and the food as expenses to some far more insidious bastards. Pass the karma along 

Someone torched a car in the drive through in the middle of the night a few months later so I suspect that was a persistent issue and probably related. The branch was shut for nearly a month 

[MrMobodies]

I was just looking at Big Clive's video and noticed the thumbs down so soon I'd thought I'd compared them:

Big Clive

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325 thumbs down.


EEVBLOG

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372 thumbs down.

Notice how the thumbs down correlate by video compared to the 5G ones from Big Clive and EEVBLOG.


Thunderf00t

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423 thumbs down but not so consistent with the previous videos from the 5g worriers.

[Monkeh]

60Ghz - 5G is mostly to spy on Cars and there passenger. Like a Tesla who have atleast 1 Cam filming the Passenger. 

Also to get traffic information, roadworks data, map updates, AGPS data...

Have you, uh, driven a modern car, let alone a semi-automated one? They don't exist in a vacuum like old ones. Wait, why do I ask conspiracy theorists if they use modern technology..

[Lord of nothing]

Also to get traffic information, roadworks data, ... , AGPS data...

15 - 10 Years ago we did do that with GPRS and the did also worked.
And Map Updates could work from Home via Wifi or via LTE.

why do I ask conspiracy theorists if they use modern technology..

Would you denial that the US is monitor the hole Network Traffice of the "free World". 
Damn I would like life in that repressing country where People could say what the think.

[bd139]

Tesla does updates from Wifi for ref...

[Monkeh]

Also to get traffic information, roadworks data, ... , AGPS data...

15 - 10 Years ago we did do that with GPRS and the did also worked.
And Map Updates could work from Home via Wifi or via LTE.

There's more data and more users, so we need a newer technology to scale up. How is this a hard concept?

why do I ask conspiracy theorists if they use modern technology..

Would you denial that the US is monitor the hole Network Traffice of the "free World". 
Damn I would like life in that repressing country where People could say what the think.

... yes, actually, I would deny that any one state has the capacity to monitor the entire network traffic of the planet, because I have a clue.

[Lord of nothing]

I would deny that any one state has the capacity to monitor the entire network traffic of the planet

The british could monitor the German, the German the Polish and the Polish the Portuguese,... so nobody violate the most of the laws in there country. 

[Monkeh]

I would deny that any one state has the capacity to monitor the entire network traffic of the planet

The british could monitor the German, the German the Polish and the Polish the Portuguese,... so nobody violate the most of the laws in there country. 

And now the claims swing to suit your desperate need to believe they're out to get you, while all valid points are cast aside as irrelevancies.

Oh, and yes, it would violate many laws even then, while still not occuring because the traffic just doesn't route that way.

[free_electron]

i heard 5G can kill coronaviruses ... let's install many many many towers, preferably one per home... better safe than sorry.

[SparkyFX]

Often forgotten: go into the sun and have a 1-2 kW/m² exposure right where you are ... just for comparison. The heating effect is there, but the body seems good at working around it.

[Jan Audio]

My friend told me :
birds drop dead from the sky with 5G.
*he has read on facebook.

Now people are burning send-masts over here, i wonder why.

By the way i read on wiki : Trees need to be lower then 3 meters then the base-station.
Is this why they are cutting all longer trees at the moment over here ?

They cut trees, we cut sendmasts ?, is that it.

[Jan Audio]

I thought the netherlands was democratic.
If nobody wants this why do they still install ?
Not a democracy, a dictatorship.

I am against it also, i dont want every 200meters a sendmast for something i dont use.
The other side has the telefones stitched to the ears, and walk like zombies while apping, they dont need anymore of that either.
Nobody needs it exept the secret-service, who has moved a big sattelite-spy-station from here to another country to somewhere they not telling.
5G jams they spy-station, so they just move it ?, because they can spy very much better with this 5G, they implement things in your body eventually.

[wraper]

I thought the netherlands was democratic.
If nobody wants this why do they still install ?
Not a democracy, a dictatorship.

I am against it also, i dont want every 200meters a sendmast for something i dont use.
The other side has the telefones stitched to the ears, and walk like zombies while apping, they dont need anymore of that either.

If you don't wan't it, does not mean everyone thinks the same. If you are part of cringe minority, means you can throw a tantrum as much as you want but majority rules. That's how democracy works.

[Jan Audio]

No matter who is chosen, they want 5G.
They should vote if we want 5G or not, only that is not possible.

[wraper]

No matter who is chosen, they want 5G.
They should vote if we want 5G or not, only that is not possible.

You are not living in direct democracy but in representative democracy FYI. If you want to vote for every thing that ever happens yourself, don't be surprised that place you live in is a shithole where nothing gets ever done. Also voting for 5G is simply ridiculous.

I am against it also, i dont want every 200meters a sendmast for something i dont use.

Not up to you to decide about something that does not affect you and is located at place which is not your property.

[Simon]

No people voting about things they don't understand has never worked, I just wish i could think of a relevant recent example....... The only reason why any "democratic" vote is sort of no that harmful is that whoever you vote for is as nutty as the other one.

I am rather fed up with the thicko's of the world ruining it for the rest of us. 5G uses similar frequencies to 4G and anyone worried about it should throw out their wireless router as it covers the entire range of frequencies not to mention any mobile phones.

I wonder how many of these goons that burn masts down carry a phone that works on the exact frequencies they claim are so harmful.

As for the spying you just have to think of how many people there are in your country and how much data they produce through this monitoring. Collecting it, storing it and processing it would be a task of such a gigantic scale that it would hardly be a secret.

I really wish the dumb people and that includes the conspiracy nuts in this thread! would learn to shut up and listen to their betters!

I even got an email from a guy at work asking me what I thought, and i never did rank him as that clever.

[bd139]

Technocracy is the answer.

If you ask stupid people questions you get stupid answers.

[vodka]

They should vote if we want 5G or not, only that is not possible.

Democracy has shown very little positive effects in advancing technology. It's not the people who chose to develop nuclear weapons, which factually ended WW2. It's not the people who chose to develop a super secret military communication system that factually made Internet possible. And I can list it on and on.

If complete democracy is given, the mass will always focus on short term interests, and people with influence will always manipulate the speech, thus the weak will always be deprived by the strong. If people have full freedom about their individual body, poor people will be forced to sell their organs to rich people by completely legitimate force of economy.

Imagine in a world where majority vote has power over everything. If you walk past a hospital you will be killed because your organs can save more lives, so the majority vote is always to sacrifice you for the greater good.

On resume, democratic fundamentalism.

https://translate.google.es/translate?hl=es&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.filosofia.org%2Fave%2F002%2Fb022.htm
https://translate.google.es/translate?hl=es&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fgbueno.es%2Fgbm%2Fgb2010fd.htm

[nctnico]

It's not the people who chose to develop nuclear weapons, which factually ended WW2.

For starters: that is highly debatable. The fear of a Russian invasion into Japan (remember that Japan borders to Russia with a narrow piece of sea in between) was worrying the Japanese much more. Especially since the Russians had dealt with the nazis in the west they could turn their attention to the east.

Furthermore you seem to have a very convoluted image of democracy. Hint: there are always more people in the working class compared to the rich. Maybe you are confused with countries which claim to be democratic but are in fact run by the rich.

Anyway, the reason for me to come back to this thread is to tell that people start to set fire to 5G masts over here as well because people are convinced 5G causes Corona  . Even though 5G isn't turned on  . Meanwhile the anti-terrorist units are brought in because the masts are considered critical infrastructure (if a mast is out people may not be able to call for an ambulance) so if they catch the lunatics they face some serious jail time.

[Brumby]

Why is my mind drawn here.....?

[bd139]

Apparently the Netherlands are suffering from dumbasses now with towers attacked.

[Simon]

Probably time to surround essential infrastructure with electric fences, maybe several layers of increasing leathality. We really need to restart natural selection before it's too late.

[2N3055]

Apparently the Netherlands are suffering from dumbasses now with towers attacked.

Funniest thing is that they destroyed towers "because it, among other things, caused Coronavirus epidemic" and all of the  towers are not on, because they still have to auction off frequencies it will work on.
They can't even test them yet, because frequencies are not allocated yet.

[2N3055]

Probably time to surround essential infrastructure with electric fences, maybe several layers of increasing leathality. We really need to restart natural selection before it's too late.

It's worse. In pandemic situation, telecom is considered critical infrastructure. They posted anti-terrorist units to guard exposed telecom infrastructure. Some idiot might get shot...

[bd139]

This all actually reminds me of when they put the 3G installation on the top of an office building I was working in. people were complaining about it almost immediately. Nausea, tiredness, sleep deprivation, headaches the lot. I had no problems at all.  Our HR guys got a ton of complaints about it to the point someone quit. HR people contacted the land lord who contacted the phone company who pointed out it wasn’t even wired up yet as they were waiting for a national grid connection.

The cause of the nausea, tiredness, sleep deprivation and headaches were the same cause as before: smoking, drinking excessively, eating shit, going out all night. Much like my father he was convinced his myeloma was related to owning a diesel car for 6 months rather than the 50 years of smoking.

[bd139]

Probably time to surround essential infrastructure with electric fences, maybe several layers of increasing leathality. We really need to restart natural selection before it's too late.

It's worse. In pandemic situation, telecom is considered critical infrastructure. They posted anti-terrorist units to guard exposed telecom infrastructure. Some idiot might get shot...

It’s critical infrastructure in all situations. Emergency services use it here and for some people it is the only outbound communications network they have.

I expect there to be some legislation added under domestic terrorism acts for this.

[Simon]

Probably time to surround essential infrastructure with electric fences, maybe several layers of increasing leathality. We really need to restart natural selection before it's too late.

It's worse. In pandemic situation, telecom is considered critical infrastructure. They posted anti-terrorist units to guard exposed telecom infrastructure. Some idiot might get shot...

I hope some do get shot, extreme stupidity calls for extreme measures.

[madires]

No worries! At about 6g most people start to pass out anyway.

[Simon]

This all actually reminds me of when they put the 3G installation on the top of an office building I was working in. people were complaining about it almost immediately. Nausea, tiredness, sleep deprivation, headaches the lot. I had no problems at all.  Our HR guys got a ton of complaints about it to the point someone quit. HR people contacted the land lord who contacted the phone company who pointed out it wasn’t even wired up yet as they were waiting for a national grid connection.

The cause of the nausea, tiredness, sleep deprivation and headaches were the same cause as before: smoking, drinking excessively, eating shit, going out all night. Much like my father he was convinced his myeloma was related to owning a diesel car for 6 months rather than the 50 years of smoking.

Richard Hammond did a little documentary where they put up a mast next to a student house where they were all fearful of the effects. Anad again the mast was not even turned on and everyone had a headache.......

[phaseform]

Where can we get a found link for Amp-hour #430?

also fun definitely electronics related video (kinda not really)



lolol

[Simon]

https://theamphour.com/430-shahriar-discusses-5g/

[Simon]

Where can we get a link for Amp-hour #430?

also fun definitely electronics related video (kinda not really)



lolol

Oh god what a nutter. Let me guess he needed a new revenue stream.

[Jan Audio]

I wonder how many of these goons that burn masts down carry a phone that works on the exact frequencies they claim are so harmful.

With 5G they were instantly caught.
Zombie behaviour caused by the radiation of the sendmasts, there you have the proof.

[Electro Detective]

i heard 5G can kill coronaviruses ... let's install many many many towers, preferably one per home... better safe than sorry.

Sleeping with a 5G wireless modem parked at head height next to the bed for a few hours, and having it next to the workstation during the day, will do a better job,
especially for 5G prone people located furthest from the towers

It's been working for me and no Corona sniffles, 5G burns, withering grey flesh, adware popups or Youtube dropouts yet.

Bonus: when it falls back to 4G it kills off any Corolla bugs trying to work their way back

Some of those conspiracy theory site 'Tips'  actually work   

as usual YMMV/EMMV applies 

 

[james_s]

This all actually reminds me of when they put the 3G installation on the top of an office building I was working in. people were complaining about it almost immediately. Nausea, tiredness, sleep deprivation, headaches the lot. I had no problems at all.  Our HR guys got a ton of complaints about it to the point someone quit. HR people contacted the land lord who contacted the phone company who pointed out it wasn’t even wired up yet as they were waiting for a national grid connection.

The cause of the nausea, tiredness, sleep deprivation and headaches were the same cause as before: smoking, drinking excessively, eating shit, going out all night. Much like my father he was convinced his myeloma was related to owning a diesel car for 6 months rather than the 50 years of smoking.

It sounds like the placebo effect to me, it is a very real thing. If you take a pill that you believe will make you feel better, then there is a very good chance you will feel better. If there's something in the vicinity that you believe is giving you a headache and making you tired, then you will have a headache and feel tired. The brain is a funny thing.

[james_s]

I hope some do get shot, extreme stupidity calls for extreme measures.

I would agree, although imagine what that will do to fuel the conspiracy nuts. Then it'll turn into "the government wants this mind control equipment so bad that now they're murdering anyone who uncovers the truth!" 

[Bud]

I used to rent a place in a high rise appartment building one level before last, and the building had cell antennas on the roof. It did cause me problems - it disrupted my wireless UHF headphones audio, every few seconds with a short and loud "Bzzzz" in the headphones, as if someone hit you in the ears with nails. It was freaking painful, i had to stop using them. After a few years i moved and at my new place the headphones worked just fine.

[Simon]

I hope some do get shot, extreme stupidity calls for extreme measures.

I would agree, although imagine what that will do to fuel the conspiracy nuts. Then it'll turn into "the government wants this mind control equipment so bad that now they're murdering anyone who uncovers the truth!" 

There comes a point where you have to stop worrying about what they think. Fact is they will make something "bad" out of it either way. There is no way to reason with these idiots so put them down like the animals they are! I really have run out of patience for these sorts of people. Sadly an education system that does not truly teach or reward proper achievement with "showing up to lessons" being the pass mark we are allowing society to slip into a darker and darker place.

Knowledge is great, the more the better, a little bit of knowledge can be very dangerous. These idiots think they are clever because they live in a society build for them not by them by clever people who gave them tools they can use but have no idea how they work. They labor under the misapprehension that they themselves are clever because they can use the tools created by clever people.

Let me guess that like driving if they did a survey asking people how intelligent they think they are the vast majority would reply above average. i feel that society is going backwards, not forwards.

[Simon]

This all actually reminds me of when they put the 3G installation on the top of an office building I was working in. people were complaining about it almost immediately. Nausea, tiredness, sleep deprivation, headaches the lot. I had no problems at all.  Our HR guys got a ton of complaints about it to the point someone quit. HR people contacted the land lord who contacted the phone company who pointed out it wasn’t even wired up yet as they were waiting for a national grid connection.

The cause of the nausea, tiredness, sleep deprivation and headaches were the same cause as before: smoking, drinking excessively, eating shit, going out all night. Much like my father he was convinced his myeloma was related to owning a diesel car for 6 months rather than the 50 years of smoking.

It sounds like the placebo effect to me, it is a very real thing. If you take a pill that you believe will make you feel better, then there is a very good chance you will feel better. If there's something in the vicinity that you believe is giving you a headache and making you tired, then you will have a headache and feel tired. The brain is a funny thing.

In fact a placebo test is built into most new drug tests. A portion of the patients are given something that does not have the new drug in it and their response subtracted from that of the ones that got the genuine drug so that the net effect can be worked out.

When i was a kid and had "a headache" my dad would give me a vitamin tablet and tell me it was for the headache.....

[bd139]

Placebo it was indeed. It works.

I hope some do get shot, extreme stupidity calls for extreme measures.

I would agree, although imagine what that will do to fuel the conspiracy nuts. Then it'll turn into "the government wants this mind control equipment so bad that now they're murdering anyone who uncovers the truth!" 

Just have to shoot those ones as well. 

[Simon]

Placebo it was indeed. It works.

I hope some do get shot, extreme stupidity calls for extreme measures.

I would agree, although imagine what that will do to fuel the conspiracy nuts. Then it'll turn into "the government wants this mind control equipment so bad that now they're murdering anyone who uncovers the truth!" 

Just have to shoot those ones as well. 

Not really, if you commit an act of vandalism or terrorism you suffer the consequences. That is different from people saying something that does not cause immediate material damage and harm to society.

I would create a new law along the line of defamation of science. If you are seriously going to willfully make shit up and then disseminate that "information" like 5G causes some damage to the body and the damaged cells break up into viruses which is just malicious lies then you should be prosecuted. I dunno, if you pretended to be a doctor when you were not qualified then you will be sued, but you can do a similar crime in other areas and nothing happens. I am not saying that you should not speak if you are not qualified but if you are demonstrably just making shit up that is clearly false and are trying to push that to others you should be prosecuted.

[bd139]

That’s possibly a bigger problem in the long run though as it leads to censorship by the state.

Consequences for acting upon idiocy is probably as far as we can go without a step backwards.

It’s difficult.

[Simon]

But why do we call prosecution of people for disseminating false science censorship? If you tell lies about a person they can sue you for defamation. But there is no legal person in science that can sue at the moment. That is why i say the law should be "defamation against science", this means that the law cannot be used for purely political ends. You state made up twaddle in a youtube video that clearly goes against known and accepted science and you have committed a crime. I am not talking about an offhand statement but content manufactured purely to push a false and alternative understanding of scientific reality.

[bd139]

I think there are two issues with that. Firstly scientific knoweldge changes over time. Say we insist no risk is present by taking a medicine (thalidomide for example) and after 20 years we find out that there was one then it gets sticky. Secondly that inflames the religious lot who's entire belief system works on faith not evidence.

Without ushering in a China style totalitarian state, which honestly I'm not sure isn't a bad thing these days based on the status quo being a complete hunk of turds, then I'm not sure how you can resolve the complexity.

[Simon]

I think there are two issues with that. Firstly scientific knoweldge changes over time. Say we insist no risk is present by taking a medicine (thalidomide for example) and after 20 years we find out that there was one then it gets sticky. Secondly that inflames the religious lot who's entire belief system works on faith not evidence.

But religions do not normally try to tell me how human biology works.

If i go down to my local hospital in doctors scrubs and start "treating" people I will end up in jail particularly if I do something silly and harm someone. But i can make a youtube video that will ultimately incite someone to burn down critical infrastructure and that will be fine. I don't see a lot of difference in those two things other than for the simpletons minds to see more easily the wrong in the first case than the second.

What i am referring to is people that actually make up science, I repeat that is why i would call the law defamation of science. If you spread misinformation that is directly contradictory to well known science like what a virus is then you should be prosecuted. If you want to push "alternative" science then you should have scientific studies with repeatable experiments to back your claims up. Sure if you think some medication is dangerous and can prove it fine. But if you make shit up about something that has no proof whatsoever then sorry - jail time!

[Brumby]

Sure if you think some medication is dangerous and can prove it fine. But if you make shit up about something that has no proof whatsoever then sorry - jail time!

The question then becomes - who vets the "proof"?

[Simon]

Sure if you think some medication is dangerous and can prove it fine. But if you make shit up about something that has no proof whatsoever then sorry - jail time!

The question then becomes - who vets the "proof"?

We already have a system that does this. It's called the scientific community. Someone thinks they have discovered something. So instead of just saying it and expecting to be believed they do proper research and experiments that they document. They then produce a paper that includes information on how to repeat the experiments so that others can see that the results are repeatable and eventually this becomes accepted science. It's called peer reviewing.

Why should the first burden of proof be on the prosecution? it is up to the discoverer of anything to bring meaningful data and proof to the table to be assessed. If you are going to get up today and start spouting a whole new branch to "science" you better have some proof to back you up.

[james_s]

What i am referring to is people that actually make up science, I repeat that is why i would call the law defamation of science. If you spread misinformation that is directly contradictory to well known science like what a virus is then you should be prosecuted. If you want to push "alternative" science then you should have scientific studies with repeatable experiments to back your claims up. Sure if you think some medication is dangerous and can prove it fine. But if you make shit up about something that has no proof whatsoever then sorry - jail time!

I tend to agree, although in the US at least this risks creating a slippery slope regarding freedom of speech and freedom of expression. These obviously have bounds, but you have to be careful not to come off as intending to silence free speech. Some people are gonna believe nutty stuff, but throwing them in jail risks making them into a martyr, it's extremely difficult to kill an idea. I do wish social media would take a more active role in shutting down false claims and fake news though which absolutely exists, although it's not so much the traditional news media spreading it.

[Simon]

This is why I am not talking about free speech. If I decide that my right to free speech means that I can say untrue things about a person that person can sue my arse. But anyone can say untrue things about science and there are no repercussions and yet the consequences more dangerous.

As i say someone voicing a nutty opinion, fine, but to go to the extent of making the effort to disseminate that on a mass platform when it is clearly untrue should be a crime. We live in an age where mass communication is now at the fingertips of the common person. Anyone can become a sensation overnight by posting something. With great power comes great responsibility, well time people were held responsible.

And yes I wish the platforms would censor this rubbish out. Because on the one hand yes people being censored will be called martyrs but if they remain active they will just create more followers. People are always gonna speculate on "what de government is up to" "what they don't want you to know" I certainly do not trust any government but I am not stupid enough to start believing that they are lying to me about scientific reality like the shape of the earth or that the planet is or is not warming.

And yes if it is necessary lets get rid of religion. That's where it starts anyway, lets just grow the fuck up as a planet!

[madires]

It has to do a lot with education and political leaning, for example:
Nearly three-in-ten Americans believe COVID-19 was made in a lab (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/04/08/nearly-three-in-ten-americans-believe-covid-19-was-made-in-a-lab/?utm_source=Pew+Research+Center&utm_campaign=9a8a1fc2a0-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_04_09_06_59&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3e953b9b70-9a8a1fc2a0-400906701)

The chart shows very nicely which groups tend to believe misinformation.

[Jan Audio]

Very coincident then : 1981 novel wuhan 400, maybe causes the 3/10 persons.

[Brumby]

Sure if you think some medication is dangerous and can prove it fine. But if you make shit up about something that has no proof whatsoever then sorry - jail time!

The question then becomes - who vets the "proof"?

We already have a system that does this. It's called the scientific community. Someone thinks they have discovered something. So instead of just saying it and expecting to be believed they do proper research and experiments that they document. They then produce a paper that includes information on how to repeat the experiments so that others can see that the results are repeatable and eventually this becomes accepted science. It's called peer reviewing.

Why should the first burden of proof be on the prosecution? it is up to the discoverer of anything to bring meaningful data and proof to the table to be assessed. If you are going to get up today and start spouting a whole new branch to "science" you better have some proof to back you up.

That's an objective process.  It's also one that is inconvenient for those who don't have the nerve to accept independent review (no names  )  They won't accept a negative finding and will just roll out conspiracy theories in an attempt to defeat that finding.  The sad part is that there are far too many who are prepared to accept such claims as fact and reason to keep believing the crap.

This just doesn't say it adequately ..... 

[Simon]

Sure if you think some medication is dangerous and can prove it fine. But if you make shit up about something that has no proof whatsoever then sorry - jail time!

The question then becomes - who vets the "proof"?

We already have a system that does this. It's called the scientific community. Someone thinks they have discovered something. So instead of just saying it and expecting to be believed they do proper research and experiments that they document. They then produce a paper that includes information on how to repeat the experiments so that others can see that the results are repeatable and eventually this becomes accepted science. It's called peer reviewing.

Why should the first burden of proof be on the prosecution? it is up to the discoverer of anything to bring meaningful data and proof to the table to be assessed. If you are going to get up today and start spouting a whole new branch to "science" you better have some proof to back you up.

That's an objective process.  It's also one that is inconvenient for those who don't have the nerve to accept independent review (no names  )  They won't accept a negative finding and will just roll out conspiracy theories in an attempt to defeat that finding.  The sad part is that there are far too many who are prepared to accept such claims as fact and reason to keep believing the crap.

This just doesn't say it adequately ..... 

This is why if you "discover" something you should have to go through the peer review process or get sued, that is the point they won't want to follow the process at which point when they start opening their mouths they will have broken the law. I am sorry but you cannot reason with these people and there is no point in even caring for their protestations.

[chris_leyson]

20 suspected arson attacks on UK phone masts over the easter weekend  Shoot the bastards.
BTW in the Dean Koontz novel The Eyes of Darkness the bio weapon was Gorky-400 and changed to Wuhan-400 when the book was republished in 1989.

[bd139]

Yep total fucknuggets. Also one of them serves one of the new NHS Nightingale units 

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/birmingham-nhs-nightingale-hospital-phone-18090436

I hope we see some arrests soon.

I have noticed that the locations are generally full of thick as fuck morlocks and flat roofed pubs.

[Simon]

yea, and the coincidence is all the proof they need........

[bd139]

Just spent some time filling this in with YT links

https://www.report-terrorist-material.homeoffice.gov.uk/report

[Simon]

But did they encourage people to take action. Remember Angem Choudry? remember how long it took to get him because he never once incited anything but inspired. This is why we need a law along the lines of harmful defamation of science.

[bd139]

AFAIK they spent some time arresting and disempowering his associates in Al-Muhajiroun first so they couldn't retaliate.

[Simon]

It's like when someone claiming to be a pikey rang me up to sell me some contraband tobacco that i was going to sell at a club and got very nasty when I said I think he had the wrong person and that i was recording the call. The policeman was only mildly interested until he heard the bit where the guy said practically in jest that he would "cut my belly open", then the guy went into "your a victim mode". The law is a funny thing, actually tragic when it comes do doing something when there is almost enough evidence but not enough.

[bd139]

I think that’s just because you had a shit law technician. They’re mostly shit. If they weren’t they’d be doing something else.

[Simon]

nope, dems the rules. As things were i was not wanting any help, as far as I know this guy did not know where i lived, but the fact that I had him with his number on record saying that he was doing contraband just maybe they may find the information useful, apparently not.

Our fake science people are treated no different. And until there is a specific law about it nothing will be done.

[bd139]

That’s a bugger.

Bring on a technocracy. That’s all I can say.

(Not technocracy inc. they are mentalists).

[Simon]

Well you make a law about the defamation of science and allow whatever institute best represents the subject(s) taken on the roles of the legal person(s) suing, just like a lawsuit with a company. A company as a legal person can sue, the government can provide the funding and any upheld cases have costs charged against the offender.

[bd139]

That’s a fair idea that. I like that.

Just tripped over this: https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/wxeb45/my-dad-got-hoaxed-by-the-anti-5g-conspiracy-movement

Would suggest the guy behind this is a con man, made a fuck load of money out of funding and shot a teenage girl in 1993.

[EEVblog]

Now I'm getting the "but it's not the RF heating, it's the Voltage-gated calcium channels".
This seems to be the source of all such hysteria:
Beware "dirty electricity"!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/

Choice quotes:

One question that is not answered by any of the available data is whether what is known as ‘dirty electricity’ [111–113], generated by rapid, in many cases, square wave transients in EMF exposure, also acts by stimulating VGCCs. Such dirty electricity is inherent in any digital technology because digital technology is based on the use of such square wave transients and it may, therefore, be of special concern in this digital era, but there have been no tests of such dirty electricity that determine whether VGCCs have roles in response to such fields, to my knowledge. The nanosecond pulses, which are essentially very brief, but high-intensity dirty electricity do act, at least in part, via VGCC stimulation (Table 1), suggesting that dirty electricity may do likewise. Clearly, we need direct study of this question.

It's everything!

Voltage-gated calcium channels are essential to the responses produced by extremely low frequency (including 50/60 Hz) EMFs and also to microwave frequency range EMFs, nanosecond EMF pulses, and static electrical and magnetic fields

And the esteemed author has a book!
https://peaceinspace.blogs.com/files/5g-emf-hazards--dr-martin-l.-pall--eu-emf2018-6-11us3.pdf

[2N3055]

How about experts on those topics: Building Biology Ecology Consultant (BBEC) and Electromagnetic Radiation Specialist (EMRS) by the International Institute for Building Biology and Ecology...

I once asked did they try to connect washing machine to the socket to see if it's going to clean up "dirty electricity".. I was explained that I am obviously too stupid to understand such a holistic science..
Because frequencies..
 

[bd139]

The fuckers damaged our nearest tower last night. Appears to be minor damage to the casing only as it’s still working on.  There’s a team out there sorting it already. 

I’m sooo fed up of this. I reckon I know who did it as well as they’ve been spurting bullshit on the local Facebook. Going to report it to the police this morning.

[phaseform]

look at this crazy practising ex military doctor talking about the effects of high frequency EMF on haemoglobin. He says his colleagues are being censored.. what a loon.. doesn't he watch the news!
timestamp 20:35

[bd139]

The key to being believed is wearing a lab coat. BRB 

[2N3055]

My comment disappeared. It was meant to be a joke.
emoji was supposed to be a clue.
 Anyways, if anybody thought it was inappropriate, I'm sorry.


EDIT: False alarm.. I'm sorry. Text  marked as invalid... Please ignore.

[Simon]

My comment disappeared. It was meant to be a joke.
emoji was supposed to be a clue.
 Anyways, if anybody thought it was inappropriate, I'm sorry.

i didn't delete anything and there was no report.

[2N3055]

My comment disappeared. It was meant to be a joke.
emoji was supposed to be a clue.
 Anyways, if anybody thought it was inappropriate, I'm sorry.

i didn't delete anything and there was no report.

Thanks for answering.. I have no idea what happened. I posted something ( not even important, was just goofing around ). There were some errors at the time (now that I think about) but it showed it was posted.. Oh well, never mind.  All is well, I didn't react because I thought it was deleted.
That would be just fine if it was meant to be inappropriate. I was afraid someone took offense when none was meant..
Anyways, I'm glad I was mistaken, and thank you again for effort to answer me. It's much appreciated.

Best regads,
Sinisa

[Jan Audio]

Soon i have proof in a few weeks, or not.
If these screaming birds dont get back here we will see.
Maybe they fallen out the sky because of 5G somewhere, or avoiding the area.

I am going to press post now, sure i will hear screams in 1 second after posting.

[Jan Audio]

Ok the birds are back.