eevBLAB #81: Google BANNED LBRY Android App from Play Store

[EEVblog]

Google just BANNED the LBRY Android app from the Google Play Store!
https://odysee.com/@eevblog:7
New platform Utreon: https://utreon.com/c/eevblog
Subscribe on Library: https://lbry.tv/@eevblog:7

[highlanderIII]

As mentioned on the LBRY post, the app is available via F-Droid (https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.lbry.browser/), or one can directly sideload the APK (http://lbry.com/releases/lbry-android.apk).

[Bud]

Why so much drama. Just use the web site directly. I never use stupid apps to access any sites and i am still well and alive.

[EEVblog]

If LBRY didn't put that stupid "Don't do Evil" banner in Google color on their homepage, Google wouldn't be that pissed.

I told them that when they asked for my feedback before it was released, they said they wanted to keep a "non professsional vibe" and so kept it.

[janoc]

...they said they wanted to keep a "non professsional vibe" and so kept it.

 

[BravoV]

Why so much drama. Just use the web site directly. I never use stupid apps to access any sites and i am still well and alive.

Tell that to young generation, everything must be "APP-ed", otherwise they will not alive. 

Edit : Just read the post above you, thats a fine example. 

[SilverSolder]

Back in the 90's,  Microsoft got hammered for doing a lot less blatantly monopolistic stuff than Google is doing today...

[janoc]

Why so much drama. Just use the web site directly. I never use stupid apps to access any sites and i am still well and alive.

Tell that to young generation, everything must be "APP-ed", otherwise they will not alive. 

Edit : Just read the post above you, thats a fine example. 

I don't see what does that have to do with "young generation" when every website is pushing their app right in your face whenever you visit it because it permits to do more detailed and more invasive activity tracking for ad targeting than what a browser alone can do. Also the mobile browsers were notoriously crappy and slow until recently, that's why this trend came to be.

[thm_w]

There is obvious value to having an app. If you don't want to use it, then use the browser and don't whine about something that doesn't affect you.

First reason I can think of is an in app notification for subscriptions uploads.
Second is more tailored UI to mobile/TV. Not many people want to open a browser on their TV and screw around with typing in URLs, they want to select LBRY/youtube/whatever and it will come up in full screen with some basic selections and thumbnails.

[james_s]

I wouldn't care about there being an app except that some sites NAG you incessantly to download the stupid app every time you visit in a browser. The one app I did use until recently was ebay, the mobile app was far nicer to use and made it much easier to list items, but then they made it expire, unfortunately the updated app requires a newer version of iOS than I use, so as a result I do far less browsing ebay, I guess the advantage is that it  is saving me money.

[Bud]

There is obvious value to having an app. If you don't want to use it, then use the browser and don't whine about something that doesn't affect you.

First reason I can think of is an in app notification for subscriptions uploads.
Second is more tailored UI to mobile/TV. Not many people want to open a browser on their TV and screw around with typing in URLs, they want to select LBRY/youtube/whatever and it will come up in full screen with some basic selections and thumbnails.

Guess what. Not being caring about the stupid app, i still go with my business using the browser. You app lover however can kiss Lbry  good bye now.

[SilverSolder]

I wouldn't care about there being an app except that some sites NAG you incessantly to download the stupid app every time you visit in a browser. The one app I did use until recently was ebay, the mobile app was far nicer to use and made it much easier to list items, but then they made it expire, unfortunately the updated app requires a newer version of iOS than I use, so as a result I do far less browsing ebay, I guess the advantage is that it  is saving me money.

I have the same problem on an old Android tablet that I leave in the car, to view OBDII information.  The OS got "too old" so the app is no longer updated for that platform.  Emailing with the author of the app, he explained that if it was up to him, he'd still support it - but his agreement with Google precludes making new software for older versions of the OS!   Go figure...

Then there's the nag screen that comes up (despite no updates) when the car tablet hasn't linked with the mother ship for about 6 months, all the apps become "unlicensed" (error:  "App Not Owned") until I take the tablet inside and let it phone home.

I really, really hate this kind of sh!t and it just makes me not want to buy modern phones and it makes me not want to use phone apps either.  Sooner or later, I'm going to have to learn Linux, but I feel I shouldn't have to...

[james_s]

I stopped buying apps after several that I bought and paid for became abandoned and OS updates broke them. If they're going to stop working with no viable replacement after just a couple of years then I'm not going to buy them in the first place. I'm accustomed to buying software and then being able to use it for 20+ years if I really want to. Companies act like frequent updates are a feature but I find it a hassle. Smartphones are a mature product, I don't want a new operating system with new bugs every year, I just want to get it set up the way I want it and use it for several years until the hardware wears out.

[SilverSolder]

The millennials are starting to cotton on to this too.  One of them said the other day, "The want you to subscribe to everything that you used to be able to buy outright - so you end up overpaying, compared to before.  There's no way everyone can afford to have as much stuff as before, if this becomes the norm."

[james_s]

I don't mind subscribing to a service, I recognize that there is an ongoing cost in providing and maintaining that service. Subscription software is a non-starter for me though, I absolutely will not even consider it. They always present it as an advantage for the consumer and compare the cost to always buying the latest version whenever a new one comes out, but in reality nobody ever does that. Subscription is a way of continuing to extract money from the consumer without having to come up with anything to compel them to upgrade to the latest version. Once software becomes a mature product  frequent upgrades are no longer necessary. I really wish Apple would implement a process for paid upgrades because I would go for that, upgrade to the latest version of an app when the existing version no longer works, but I refuse to keep paying out just to maintain the existing level of functionality. I have a major aversion to recurring payments, they're like 'vampire' electrical loads, individually a few watts or dollars doesn't sound like much but when you have 10 or so of those things pretty soon it adds up to something significant.

[SilverSolder]

Vampires, draining your life blood and giving nothing of equal value in return...   a good way of thinking of it.

[coppice]

Can someone explain why Google would ban anything from LBRY, when they appear to be the owners of Odysee and LBRY?

[thm_w]

Can someone explain why Google would ban anything from LBRY, when they appear to be the owners of Odysee and LBRY?

Where did you get that idea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LBRY#Company

[coppice]

Can someone explain why Google would ban anything from LBRY, when they appear to be the owners of Odysee and LBRY?

Where did you get that idea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LBRY#Company

If you Google for "who owns Odysee?" you get a number of hits from business sites that say something to the effect that "Odysee was acquired by Google on Feb 8, 2015".

[thm_w]

If you Google for "who owns Odysee?" you get a number of hits from business sites that say something to the effect that "Odysee was acquired by Google on Feb 8, 2015".

Its owned by lbry, as linked. I don't see those results.

[coppice]

If you Google for "who owns Odysee?" you get a number of hits from business sites that say something to the effect that "Odysee was acquired by Google on Feb 8, 2015".

Its owned by lbry, as linked. I don't see those results.

If you try https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/nimbuz, or other sites Googling for "who owns Odysee?" throws up, it says "Odysee was acquired by Google on Feb 8, 2015", but I just looked further and it also says it was closed in the same month. Another part of the page says its now owned by LBRY. So, this Google ownership seems to be something historic. Google has a terrible track record in media and messaging systems. I guess this was just one more of their screwups, and someone picked up the remains and ran with it.

[EEVblog]

If you Google for "who owns Odysee?" you get a number of hits from business sites that say something to the effect that "Odysee was acquired by Google on Feb 8, 2015".

Its owned by lbry, as linked. I don't see those results.

If you try https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/nimbuz, or other sites Googling for "who owns Odysee?" throws up, it says "Odysee was acquired by Google on Feb 8, 2015", but I just looked further and it also says it was closed in the same month. Another part of the page says its now owned by LBRY. So, this Google ownership seems to be something historic. Google has a terrible track record in media and messaging systems. I guess this was just one more of their screwups, and someone picked up the remains and ran with it.

No, that is falsely reported, Google have never owned or had any association with LBRY.

BTW, I will be helping out with the SEC-LBRY legal case.

[nctnico]

Can someone explain why Google would ban anything from LBRY, when they appear to be the owners of Odysee and LBRY?

IMHO there is a very simple reason: Google doesn't want to support/facilitate exchanging illicit video material. Let's be honest here: there is nobody really keeping an eye on what kind of material is exhanged on Lbry/Odysee and there is no enforcement of taking illicit material from the system. Companies like Google want to stay as far from that as possible. It is utterly naive to think that Lbry/Odysee isn't used to share videos with awfull acts of (sexual) violence.

[EEVblog]

Can someone explain why Google would ban anything from LBRY, when they appear to be the owners of Odysee and LBRY?

IMHO there is a very simple reason: Google doesn't want to support/facilitate exchanging illicit video material. Let's be honest here: there is nobody really keeping an eye on what kind of material is exhanged on Lbry/Odysee and there is no enforcement of taking illicit material from the system. Companies like Google want to stay as far from that as possible. It is utterly naive to think that Lbry/Odysee isn't used to share videos with awfull acts of (sexual) violence.

This is incorrect.
Illicit material is totally against the T&C of Odysee and LBRY and will be removed. It relies on reports to do this because they don't have the sophisiticated automated system like Youtube.
https://lbry.com/termsofservice
https://odysee.com/@OdyseeHelp:b/Community-Guidelines:c
But that's only the stuff on their own servere that they control.
LBRY is techncially a protocol like http is, and can be used by other people (software is open source) to share content on their own systems. But that's like saying a telco is responsible for illicit material.

[Brumby]

So many armchair experts doing everything from not researching the facts to creating their own reality...   then arguing from a position of ignorance, but professing quite the opposite.


... well, that's what it seems like.

[coppice]

If you Google for "who owns Odysee?" you get a number of hits from business sites that say something to the effect that "Odysee was acquired by Google on Feb 8, 2015".

Its owned by lbry, as linked. I don't see those results.

If you try https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/nimbuz, or other sites Googling for "who owns Odysee?" throws up, it says "Odysee was acquired by Google on Feb 8, 2015", but I just looked further and it also says it was closed in the same month. Another part of the page says its now owned by LBRY. So, this Google ownership seems to be something historic. Google has a terrible track record in media and messaging systems. I guess this was just one more of their screwups, and someone picked up the remains and ran with it.

No, that is falsely reported, Google have never owned or had any association with LBRY.

BTW, I will be helping out with the SEC-LBRY legal case.

They don't say LBRY was owned by Google. The actually say Odysee was owned by Google and is now owned by LBRY. There are lots of reports of Google buying Odysee in Feb 2015, so that seems legit. E.G. https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/08/google-odysee/ , https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-acquires-photo-app-odysee/, and so on.

[EEVblog]

They don't say LBRY was owned by Google. The actually say Odysee was owned by Google and is now owned by LBRY. There are lots of reports of Google buying Odysee in Feb 2015, so that seems legit. E.G. https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/08/google-odysee/ , https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-acquires-photo-app-odysee/, and so on.

It is NOT the same company. The CEO has come out and dispelled this. Odysee is simply a new brand new name for LBRY.tv
There was another company with the same name, but this has absolutely nothing to do with LBRY and their use of the Odysee name. LBRY purchased the defunct odysee domain name
https://www.reddit.com/r/lbry/comments/j5kdqv/what_isor_was_the_relationship_between_google_and/
https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-acquires-photo-app-odysee/

it's like the AutoTrax PCB software has nothing to do with Altium/Protel AutoTrax, the guy simply used the name for his own software because Protel didn't register the name and had long since continuted using it.

[nctnico]

Can someone explain why Google would ban anything from LBRY, when they appear to be the owners of Odysee and LBRY?

IMHO there is a very simple reason: Google doesn't want to support/facilitate exchanging illicit video material. Let's be honest here: there is nobody really keeping an eye on what kind of material is exhanged on Lbry/Odysee and there is no enforcement of taking illicit material from the system. Companies like Google want to stay as far from that as possible. It is utterly naive to think that Lbry/Odysee isn't used to share videos with awfull acts of (sexual) violence.

This is incorrect.
Illicit material is totally against the T&C of Odysee and LBRY and will be removed. It relies on reports to do this because they don't have the sophisiticated automated system like Youtube.
https://lbry.com/termsofservice
https://odysee.com/@OdyseeHelp:b/Community-Guidelines:c
But that's only the stuff on their own servere that they control.

And that is where the problem is. Not all content is checked 100% and due to the technical implementation content can not be deleted. Only hidden but it can be retrieved & shared by those who wish to do so nevertheless.

LBRY is techncially a protocol like http is, and can be used by other people (software is open source) to share content on their own systems. But that's like saying a telco is responsible for illicit material.

That argument has left the harbour a long time ago. You can say the same about every Torrent site but the courts in many countries have ruled these sites facilitate the spread of illegal content. Even though they don't actually touch the content!

[rsjsouza]

Such FUD... You can find crap anywhere on the internet - yes, even on Youtube, where nudity is there uncensored to be reached by anyone.

Curated or not, this is yet a very small platform that pales in comparison with the quite few (in)famous websites with more traffic than twitter to to cater to their inner monsters. They don't need Odysee. This is a talking point from the powers that be to persuade a great deal of the population to "look away... There's nothing to see here..."

There is a reason why people are moving towards other platforms. If these idiots from the Face/Twit/Alpha companies did not try to censor legitimate criticism and open discussion from their platforms you would never see such alternatives. In the end, this is actually a good thing: although the adoption is slow, I sincerely hope the market share files away from these idiots.

[coppice]

They don't say LBRY was owned by Google. The actually say Odysee was owned by Google and is now owned by LBRY. There are lots of reports of Google buying Odysee in Feb 2015, so that seems legit. E.G. https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/08/google-odysee/ , https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-acquires-photo-app-odysee/, and so on.

It is NOT the same company. The CEO has come out and dispelled this. Odysee is simply a new brand new name for LBRY.tv
There was another company with the same name, but this has absolutely nothing to do with LBRY and their use of the Odysee name. LBRY purchased the defunct odysee domain name
https://www.reddit.com/r/lbry/comments/j5kdqv/what_isor_was_the_relationship_between_google_and/
https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-acquires-photo-app-odysee/

it's like the AutoTrax PCB software has nothing to do with Altium/Protel AutoTrax, the guy simply used the name for his own software because Protel didn't register the name and had long since continuted using it.

Perhaps LBRY didn't make a very wise choice of names, then. I only looked up the ownership issue when a couple of people I know, looking to escape the clutch of Google on YouTube, dismissed Odysee as an option as they said its also owned by Google. I looked this up, and found the references to the sale of Odysee to Google, so they seemed to be right. Reusing old company and product names is seldom a wise choice. The old names always carry baggage that can come back to bite you.

[EEVblog]

Can someone explain why Google would ban anything from LBRY, when they appear to be the owners of Odysee and LBRY?

IMHO there is a very simple reason: Google doesn't want to support/facilitate exchanging illicit video material. Let's be honest here: there is nobody really keeping an eye on what kind of material is exhanged on Lbry/Odysee and there is no enforcement of taking illicit material from the system. Companies like Google want to stay as far from that as possible. It is utterly naive to think that Lbry/Odysee isn't used to share videos with awfull acts of (sexual) violence.

This is incorrect.
Illicit material is totally against the T&C of Odysee and LBRY and will be removed. It relies on reports to do this because they don't have the sophisiticated automated system like Youtube.
https://lbry.com/termsofservice
https://odysee.com/@OdyseeHelp:b/Community-Guidelines:c
But that's only the stuff on their own servere that they control.

And that is where the problem is. Not all content is checked 100% and due to the technical implementation content can not be deleted. Only hidden but it can be retrieved & shared by those who wish to do so nevertheless.

[/quote]

Stop digging your hole deeper, you don't know how this works.
There is absolutely nothing to stop anyone from uploading illicit material to Youtube, and for it to be there until someone reports it.
I've seen some of the most horrid stuff on Youtube, and it's still there.
And people are free to download that stuff onto their own machine or server and even reupload to youtube and Youtube can do nothing about that but play whack-a-mole.

LBRY is techncially a protocol like http is, and can be used by other people (software is open source) to share content on their own systems. But that's like saying a telco is responsible for illicit material.

That argument has left the harbour a long time ago. You can say the same about every Torrent site but the courts in many countries have ruled these sites facilitate the spread of illegal content. Even though they don't actually touch the content!

So what's your answer? Ban all distributed content sharing technology forever?
LBRY is open source, anyone is free to copy it and implement it. But almost all of the content on the LBRY network operates via the LBRY servers for convenience, and they have T&C to prevent illicit material.
If you don't like LBRY fine, but stop with the arm waving.

[EEVblog]

Perhaps LBRY didn't make a very wise choice of names, then. I only looked up the ownership issue when a couple of people I know, looking to escape the clutch of Google on YouTube, dismissed Odysee as an option as they said its also owned by Google. I looked this up, and found the references to the sale of Odysee to Google, so they seemed to be right. Reusing old company and product names is seldom a wise choice. The old names always carry baggage that can come back to bite you.

Now that you know, how about you just use the new Odysee and forget there ever was anything else named that. Pretty simple.
NOBODY remembers the old Odysee app.

[EEVblog]

Such FUD... You can find crap anywhere on the internet - yes, even on Youtube, where nudity is there uncensored to be reached by anyone.

Search Youtube for beheading videos, you'll be shocked.

In the end, this is actually a good thing: although the adoption is slow, I sincerely hope the market share files away from these idiots.

I've got over 60,000 subscribers on Odysee, and the comments and enagagment is excellent, often better than Youtube.
The platform is growing massively, with about 1500 new channels per day (that's channels!), and about 15,000 new videos per day.
https://lbrynomics.com/#data|2

[nctnico]

Such FUD... You can find crap anywhere on the internet - yes, even on Youtube, where nudity is there uncensored to be reached by anyone.

But that doesn't mean Google has to help spreading it; that is the subject of this thread.

If you have followed the internet news a bit then you'd known that the time that 'everything goes' is behind us. Pornhub for example has removed all content from unverified uploaders recently: https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgqjjy/pornhub-suspended-all-unverified-videos-content

This article has an interesting quote:

"This means every piece of Pornhub content is from verified uploaders, a requirement that platforms like Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Snapchat and Twitter have yet to institute."

A smart move on LBRY's / Odysee's part would be to launch a 'pro' service where every content creator is verified (no exceptions!) and categorised. This makes it much easier to keep payment services and advertisers on board which in turn means a continous stream of money towards the content creators and maintainers of 'the network'. Porn has always been on the forefront of video distribution (it is even rumoured that VHS won the video cassette battle due to porn). IOW: if you want to know where online video streaming is heading, you better watch porn.

BTW: It seems Google has re-enabled the LBRY app but it comes with a warning that it may show content you don't like.

[rsjsouza]

Such FUD... You can find crap anywhere on the internet - yes, even on Youtube, where nudity is there uncensored to be reached by anyone.

But that doesn't mean Google has to help spreading it; that is the subject of this thread.

Yes, they are helping spread bad content just like the next guy. Only they are using their propaganda machine to stifle competition. And you (and many others) fell right into it. 

If you have followed the internet news a bit then you'd known that the time that 'everything goes' is behind us.

No, it isn't and you know it - they are not the only game in town regarding to this. Again, you are missing the point: whomever is looking for this does not need Odysee - they are small in comparison.

BTW: It seems Google has re-enabled the LBRY app but it comes with a warning that it may show content you don't like.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Case closed. Money talks. Google is helping spread this "bad content" you talked about.

[rsjsouza]

In the end, this is actually a good thing: although the adoption is slow, I sincerely hope the market share files away from these idiots.

I've got over 60,000 subscribers on Odysee, and the comments and enagagment is excellent, often better than Youtube.
The platform is growing massively, with about 1500 new channels per day (that's channels!), and about 15,000 new videos per day.
https://lbrynomics.com/#data|2

I will probably move over my content there soon. The more decent content there, the merrier.

[EEVblog]

A smart move on LBRY's / Odysee's part would be to launch a 'pro' service where every content creator is verified (no exceptions!) and categorised. This makes it much easier to keep payment services and advertisers on board which in turn means a continous stream of money towards the content creators and maintainers of 'the network'. Porn has always been on the forefront of video distribution (it is even rumoured that VHS won the video cassette battle due to porn). IOW: if you want to know where online video streaming is heading, you better watch porn.

What would this eliminate exactly?
"Illicit" content?
Porn?
Give me a link to one bit of illicit material or porn on Odysee

[nctnico]

A smart move on LBRY's / Odysee's part would be to launch a 'pro' service where every content creator is verified (no exceptions!) and categorised. This makes it much easier to keep payment services and advertisers on board which in turn means a continous stream of money towards the content creators and maintainers of 'the network'. Porn has always been on the forefront of video distribution (it is even rumoured that VHS won the video cassette battle due to porn). IOW: if you want to know where online video streaming is heading, you better watch porn.

What would this eliminate exactly?

You need to look at the much bigger picture here. Youtube, vimeo, Lbry/Odysee are basically the same kind of platform where everyone can post random videos including those which have horifying and copyrighted content. The latter two are the ones costing money to filter out and turn advertisers away. In the end that is just lost revenue that doesn't end up in the pockets of the content creators. If you invent a new video platform then at least give some thought about how to keep the cash flow lean & mean so the profits are maximised. Think of it as a co-operative variant of Netflix, Amazon, etc.

Instead Lbry is just another Youtube. That has been done already and IMHO has failed. Just like Youtube Lbry/Odysee will become the same sh!t show because they have to spend way too much resources on checking / policing the content. If every content creator is on file with full credentials (as is the case with porn videos!), it is much easier to deal with illegal material & infringements (hand it over to the real police). People will think twice to upload stuff that isn't allowed.

[thm_w]

How would you possibly verify full credentials, does PH get you to scan your drivers license or something?

Even then they'd have no way to check if its photoshopped.

[EEVblog]

You need to look at the much bigger picture here. Youtube, vimeo, Lbry/Odysee are basically the same kind of platform where everyone can post random videos including those which have horifying and copyrighted content. The latter two are the ones costing money to filter out and turn advertisers away. In the end that is just lost revenue that doesn't end up in the pockets of the content creators. If you invent a new video platform then at least give some thought about how to keep the cash flow lean & mean so the profits are maximised. Think of it as a co-operative variant of Netflix, Amazon, etc.

LOL
You do realise I earn more per view on Odysee than Youtube, right?

[Brumby]

Dave ... that's not fair.  Responding to fabricated claims with real facts.  You're such a spoil sport.

 

[Retep]

if you want to know where online video streaming is heading, you better watch porn.

Thanks for the tip, I will