Author Topic: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!  (Read 2929 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Two Japanese guys have been working for 30 years on a "Gavitational Power Generator" over-unity machine that produces 30-100 times the input energy.
The Japanese Patent office disagrees in an hilarious Kickstarter own-goal!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sunteljp/the-gravitational-power-generator-eco-turbine/description

 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2020, 07:29:22 am »
Why did he built it so big that it costs lots of money to attach a generator? Maybe the sad truth is that he started small and it didn't work, and somehow he thinks it will work when bigger. But the English information about it doesn't mention any upper or lower limits for the construction size.
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Offline Domagoj T

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2020, 07:37:17 am »
Like you said it in the video, that's just sad. Those guys had an idea, failed to realize it's impossible and got tangled up in the convoluted mechanism that obstructed their view of the basic fact that pumping water up the hill requires more energy than you can extract by bringing it back down.
The kickstarter goal of just $1000 tells me they're not trying to deceive people, just that they are completely naive, not only in technical aspect regarding conservation of energy, but in regards to economy and finances as well. $1000 for a mechanical project of that size is just ridiculous. If they think that $1000 is going to make a difference, they are in a very deep delusion. Shame, they seem like nice guys, and I really feel sorry for them.
 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2020, 07:50:51 am »
At least they've probably had heaps of fun and excitement with it over the years. From that point of view I'd say it was worth it. Many people live lonely, unhappy and unfulfilling lives. They had a goal, even if it did eventually come to nothing.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 11:06:15 am by Circlotron »
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2020, 12:02:13 pm »
This is a sort of Japanese version of an dodgy Australian company called Split Cycle Technology. The dodgy CEO was roofing tiler who became very wealthy out of stock in Split Cycle Technology. They issued reports to shareholders that the motor was tested by NASA :bullshit:, which was misleading. The split cycle motor went nowhere, so Split Cycle Technology then came up with a hare-brained idea of air pressure powered bicycles to solve the world's energy problems, calling for further investment $$$. Split Cycle was a Queensland based company. Queensland is Australia's the home of get-rich-quick schemes and scammers.

I reckon for every 500 hare-brained ideas out there, one might have some substance; and that is being optimistic.
 

Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2020, 11:32:00 am »
Does such "Machines" not "just" use the Gravity?
I saw many of such Perpeto Mobile who are use the Gravity by shifting a weight.
Well there are many Energy Producing ways who use Gravity like a Hydro Generator who just use a River to give them the Energy.
A real Perpeto Mobile would even work in Space...
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Offline FrankBuss

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2020, 01:57:53 pm »
Right, hydro generators with rivers work, because they convert some of the potential energy of the water into electric energy. The difference compared to a perpetuum mobile is that it is not a closed system, and initially the sun created this potential energy of the water by evaporating the water.

But another idea: would it be possible to convert the orbital energy of the Earth to electrical energy? Spacecrafts use already this energy for fly-by maneuvers. But is it possible with a small machine on Earth? I guess someone already thought about it and explained why it is not possible, but can't find anything.
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Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2020, 02:58:29 pm »
 ;D Theoretically yes when you count the Moon and the Sea who rise and fall do to the Moon Gravity.
Maybe: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gezeitenkraftwerk
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Offline Circlotron

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2020, 05:59:11 am »
 If you had a gyroscope fixed to the ground with its shaft horizontal and pointing east west, spin it up and as the earth rotated it would impart additional rotation to the gyroscope and you  could tap off a bit of energy if it had low enough friction bearings.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2020, 06:32:49 am »
Like you said it in the video, that's just sad. Those guys had an idea, failed to realize it's impossible and got tangled up in the convoluted mechanism that obstructed their view of the basic fact that pumping water up the hill requires more energy than you can extract by bringing it back down.
The kickstarter goal of just $1000 tells me they're not trying to deceive people, just that they are completely naive, not only in technical aspect regarding conservation of energy, but in regards to economy and finances as well. $1000 for a mechanical project of that size is just ridiculous. If they think that $1000 is going to make a difference, they are in a very deep delusion. Shame, they seem like nice guys, and I really feel sorry for them.

This sort of thing happens all the time, it's one of the classic follies of people trying to build any type of over-unity machine. They keep adding complexity until it is complicated enough that they obfuscate the reasons it cannot work from themselves. Another classic mistake is thinking that it just needs to be scaled up in order for it to work. It can be mathematically proven that no such device can ever work so it's a waste of time to even try.
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2020, 07:39:43 pm »
If you had a gyroscope fixed to the ground with its shaft horizontal and pointing east west, spin it up and as the earth rotated it would impart additional rotation to the gyroscope and you  could tap off a bit of energy if it had low enough friction bearings.

This sounds like a cool idea. I did a quick sketch with Blender:



The black base is mounted to the north pole and the blue cylinder can rotate around the black axis. So when the green cylinder rotates, the whole blue construction would rotate 360° once a day, right? I think with some gears this could drive a generator. If mounted at an angle, it should work for other positions on the earth as well. Might be a good idea to try it with a smaller version first.
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Offline Circlotron

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2020, 07:55:21 pm »
^^ That would work, but only very slowly of course. My version has the blue base connected firmly to the ground so it cannot rotate. As the earth rotates it imparts addition speed to the green flywheel that is already spinning at a useful rpm.  There is an exercise toy available that uses this exact principle, so it definitely works. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscopic_exercise_tool

The overall effect, besides slowing the earth’s rotation, would be to eventually tilt the whole earth somewhat, so it would be good practice to have another gyro at the South Pole oriented and spinning appropriately to counteract this tendency!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 08:01:33 pm by Circlotron »
 

Offline Bud

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2020, 08:02:57 pm »
Like you said it in the video, that's just sad. Those guys had an idea, failed to realize it's impossible and got tangled up in the convoluted mechanism that obstructed their view of the basic fact that pumping water up the hill requires more energy than you can extract by bringing it back down.
The kickstarter goal of just $1000 tells me they're not trying to deceive people, just that they are completely naive, not only in technical aspect regarding conservation of energy, but in regards to economy and finances as well. $1000 for a mechanical project of that size is just ridiculous. If they think that $1000 is going to make a difference, they are in a very deep delusion. Shame, they seem like nice guys, and I really feel sorry for them.
They spent all of their retirement money and were short of just a $1000 ?  :bullshit:
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2020, 09:41:07 pm »
This is a sort of Japanese version of an dodgy Australian company called Split Cycle Technology. The dodgy CEO was roofing tiler who became very wealthy out of stock in Split Cycle Technology. They issued reports to shareholders that the motor was tested by NASA :bullshit:, which was misleading. The split cycle motor went nowhere, so Split Cycle Technology then came up with a hare-brained idea of air pressure powered bicycles to solve the world's energy problems, calling for further investment $$$. Split Cycle was a Queensland based company. Queensland is Australia's the home of get-rich-quick schemes and scammers.

I reckon for every 500 hare-brained ideas out there, one might have some substance; and that is being optimistic.

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Online IanB

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2020, 09:48:12 pm »
But another idea: would it be possible to convert the orbital energy of the Earth to electrical energy?

Of course. It is called tidal power. Not only is it possible, it has been the subject of serious investigation with various schemes proposed to implement it.
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Offline Labrat101

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2020, 07:38:03 pm »
Just love the Idea . :palm:
Found an alternative power source .
Runs off the grid   and uses peanuts to work .
Multi uses as well as per photo.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 07:52:42 pm by Labrat101 »
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Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2020, 02:12:52 am »
Does the hamster run the hard drive? :D
 

Online ejeffrey

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2020, 05:29:47 am »
But another idea: would it be possible to convert the orbital energy of the Earth to electrical energy?

Of course. It is called tidal power. Not only is it possible, it has been the subject of serious investigation with various schemes proposed to implement it.

Tidal power mostly takes energy out of earth's rotational kinetic energy, not orbital.  i.e., it makes days longer not years.  But to answer the question as to why it is hard: you have to conserve not just total energy but also angular momentum.  The spinning earth can't just start spinning slower on its own, it needs to transfer that angular momentum somewhere and that somewhere is the moon.  In fact, some of the energy made available by slowing down the earth's rotation has to go to the Moon which is moved to a higher orbit by the effect, increasing its potential energy.  In any case, we really don't have any control over the process and we can't just extract an arbitrary amount of rotational energy from the earth.  Mostly the tides do what they are going to do, and we can either extract a small fraction of the energy or not.
 

Offline Labrat101

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2020, 11:39:40 am »
Does the hamster run the hard drive? :D
   Of Course it does Direct drive . & There is a gyroscope in a vacuum bell with a horizontal mount pendulum  that rotates in sinc with the planet .
 ( like water always goes anti clock down a drain ) Northern hemisphere .
 The Vacuum bell not shown as its a patented secret  :-DD
 
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Offline CoteRotie

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2020, 03:55:00 pm »
Yeah, this is nothing but sad, poor guys.

Years ago I worked in a little industrial park- There was a real estate office a few doors down.  When the head of the real estate office found out we were engineers he asked us over to show us his "invention".

He led us into the back room where he had built a motor-generator set he'd worked on for five years with a switch so that once the motor spun up he could power it from the output of the generator, and tap off that for the "free energy". 

Of course it didn't work YET, but he was close to making it work (any day now).

No matter how much we tried to tell him about efficiency, the second law, entropy, etc. he never gave up.  He might still be at if for all I know.

At least in his case it was a hobby and he didn't spend his life savings on it.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2020, 04:58:53 pm »
But another idea: would it be possible to convert the orbital energy of the Earth to electrical energy?

Of course. It is called tidal power. Not only is it possible, it has been the subject of serious investigation with various schemes proposed to implement it.
A device working on this principle will still not be an overunity power generator, as there will be external power applied to it.
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Offline Pulsepowerguy

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2020, 05:42:30 pm »
^^ That would work, but only very slowly of course. My version has the blue base connected firmly to the ground so it cannot rotate. As the earth rotates it imparts addition speed to the green flywheel that is already spinning at a useful rpm.  There is an exercise toy available that uses this exact principle, so it definitely works. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscopic_exercise_tool

The overall effect, besides slowing the earth’s rotation, would be to eventually tilt the whole earth somewhat, so it would be good practice to have another gyro at the South Pole oriented and spinning appropriately to counteract this tendency!
This idea was described to me by a rather eccentric inventor in 1979. He had calculated the minimum necessary diameter of a hollow steel sphere as well as the angle needed to draw energy. He tried to get a patent on the idea, but the USPTO examiner rejected it as impossible. I think it is workable, and yes, it will draw energy form the earth's rotation, thus slowing it down.
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2020, 10:19:26 pm »
^^ That would work, but only very slowly of course. My version has the blue base connected firmly to the ground so it cannot rotate. As the earth rotates it imparts addition speed to the green flywheel that is already spinning at a useful rpm.  There is an exercise toy available that uses this exact principle, so it definitely works. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscopic_exercise_tool

The overall effect, besides slowing the earth’s rotation, would be to eventually tilt the whole earth somewhat, so it would be good practice to have another gyro at the South Pole oriented and spinning appropriately to counteract this tendency!
This idea was described to me by a rather eccentric inventor in 1979. He had calculated the minimum necessary diameter of a hollow steel sphere as well as the angle needed to draw energy. He tried to get a patent on the idea, but the USPTO examiner rejected it as impossible. I think it is workable, and yes, it will draw energy form the earth's rotation, thus slowing it down.

Cool, do you have details? How fast does it need to rotate? How much energy does it generate for a given size? Did the calculation consider friction etc.? Maybe if the inventor would build a prototype, the patent office would accept it.
So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
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Offline Labrat101

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2020, 11:20:00 pm »
^^ That would work, but only very slowly of course. My version has the blue base connected firmly to the ground so it cannot rotate. As the earth rotates it imparts addition speed to the green flywheel that is already spinning at a useful rpm.  There is an exercise toy available that uses this exact principle, so it definitely works. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscopic_exercise_tool

The overall effect, besides slowing the earth’s rotation, would be to eventually tilt the whole earth somewhat, so it would be good practice to have another gyro at the South Pole oriented and spinning appropriately to counteract this tendency!
This idea was described to me by a rather eccentric inventor in 1979. He had calculated the minimum necessary diameter of a hollow steel sphere as well as the angle needed to draw energy. He tried to get a patent on the idea, but the USPTO examiner rejected it as impossible. I think it is workable, and yes, it will draw energy form the earth's rotation, thus slowing it down.

Cool, do you have details? How fast does it need to rotate? How much energy does it generate for a given size? Did the calculation consider friction etc.? Maybe if the inventor would build a prototype, the patent office would accept it.
So you want to slow the Planet Down. Good idea ..  |O
 If we haven't got enough Hair brain scientist trying to do that already .
 Plan 'B' back up Planet is only 100 light years away . 
 There Is No Free Energy. it always come at a dangerous Price.
 I would work on making a Rocket that can travel 10 time the speed of light first .
 So at-least you will survive the boring journey & a packed Lunch  :-DD
 & lot of big books to read.

 Or Just Make a vaccine for the Real Problem   ..
« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 11:31:56 pm by Labrat101 »
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Offline FrankBuss

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Re: eevBLAB #82 - Kickstarter Over-unity Gravitational Power Generator!
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2020, 05:43:24 am »
So you want to slow the Planet Down. Good idea ..  |O
 If we haven't got enough Hair brain scientist trying to do that already .

World energy consumption per year is 5.7*10^20 J. Rotational kinetic energy of the Earth is 2*10^29 J. So you could power the whole world for 350 million years until the spinning stops. If we would do it only a few decades, until fission or whatever works, the rotation wouldn't slow down more than maybe a second per day. Doesn't look dangerous to me.
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