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Raspberry Pi filesystem reliability with writes? And using an RPI for hosting?

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--- Quote from: DiTBho on February 17, 2022, 07:01:34 pm ---
--- Quote from: cdev on February 17, 2022, 02:00:41 pm ---Jeff Geerling seeems to have done a lot to answer my question here:
Now I need to get a Pi4 to be able to use PCIe

--- End quote ---

That guy is there to make videos and makes money with that, and it's no surprise that most of what he says is bullshit. Like when he suggested buying a 1600 Euro PCIe controller and several HDs just to make a NAS-toy; or 1200 euro just to make a cluster-toy.

Of course, it's just my opinion.

--- End quote ---

A fairly well informed one too. Thanks!

I dont think he suggested that, and I think either the manufacturer or broadcom sent him the card temporarily because it seems he was helping them out by getting it working. Clearly he's not free to spend whatever he wants on the hardware he uses in his videos.. he talks about the cost and when manufacturers loan him equipment he mentions that. He's just a poor schmuck like most of us fooling around for fun and because he likes the platform, they are sort of toy computers. What I was trying to figure out in this thread was if they can be a little more than that.. without breaking the bank, and where the points of diminishing returns were located..

Here in the US the cost of electricity is rising quickly so the era of cheap natural gas and electricity (the price of which tracks natural gas) that I grew up with (since the ban on exporting liquid natural gas begun in 1975, it just ended last year... )  is ending, fast.
I am not in one of the worst areas at all but even here in the last few months my electricity bill has gone up by around 75% so this is a big concern for me. I'm replacing all my energy hog appliances. Cutting back on electricity and natural gas use.

Its fairly likely they will switch to nuclear energy. "Energy agnosticism" they call it in trade deals allows them to ignore what people vote for completely and just do more nuclear.  Or whatever they want.. coal.. Causing more mercury pollution. If you are female or have a femals spouse or sweetie of childbearing age, tell her to take NAC. n-acetyl-cysteine.. To prevent birth defects from glutathions depletion.. It also helps reduce the risk of covid and other things.. Its all because of a problem with the expression of two genes, "fyn" and "cCbl" - which are involved in cell differentiation in a developing fetus.. Having adequate amounts of intracellular glutathione is really important. So to suport your glutathione levels, take n-acetyl-cysteine. As we age we all should supplement with extra cysteine. NAC is the best kind totake. Its cheap too.

So, back to rising cost of energy..

People with electric cars, unless you also have lots of PV, its going to hit you too..You people who heat with electricity.. Thats too expensive for me, except limited to small heaters and heating pads.. 

Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: cdev on February 19, 2022, 01:29:54 am ---So for industrial settings, maybe not so good because they are prone to glichiness?

--- End quote ---
It depends on the load.  Anecdotally, when the average I/O load is low, you're unlikely to get bitten by the USB glitches.

However, the Ethernet on them is also on the USB bus.  So, in NAS use, you're uncomfortably stressing the exact system part – the USB bus message management – that has the risk of the glitch.

For the last half year or so, I've been using WD Green 120 MiB and 240 MiB SATA SSD disks, with a cheap USB3-SATA adapter (<10€).
    ID 174c:1153 ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM2115 SATA 6Gb/s bridge
The trick with these is that since they are mass-produced, you may get a defective cable from the get go, so better thoroughly test one first (say, running some transfer tests for a couple of hours first) before relying on it.  Second is that with ASMedia, you want the :1153 version, and NOT :105x, which have buggy UAS support.
Similarly, several Jmicron controllers (dirt cheap, often looked down upon) are problematic, but most are absolutely fine.

What I like to do, is just stick the adapter to an USB port in my linux machine (without any disk attached), and run lsusb so see the manufacturer:device pair.  Then, I go to drivers/usb/storage/unusual_devs.h and drivers/usb/storage/uas-detect.h in the Linux kernel, and see if their USB Attached SCSI implementation is supported and/or known to have problems.  (If you know what kernel you're going to run, do select that particular version on the left.)

If you have a friendly local store, you may even ask them to check the manufacturer:product number of the actual adapter, and you can quickly do a search at Elixir over the net on those two linked pages, to see if the adapter should be supported and is known to have issues or not.

Anyone who feels that these adapters are less reliable than built-in stuff, do remember that this is exactly how SATA support is implemented in most SBCs, the adapter chip is just integrated on the board.  X86-64 AMD/Intel-based SBCs like Odroid H2, and HardKernel's Amlogic S905X3-based (ARM Cortex-A55) Odroid HC4 are an exception, as they usually have a native or PCIe-to-SATA chipset; Odroid HC4 uses good old ASMedia ASM1061 PCIe-to-SATA bridge instead.  (The reason I bought a H96 MAX X3 Android TV-box for under 40€ shipped from Banggood on sale, is because it too has a S905X3 SOC on it, but no SATA.  I might have to port and adapt some device tree descriptions and maybe even drivers from the Android kernel to get full vanilla Linux support, but it's nothing I haven't done before.  Sneaky, sneaky!)


--- Quote from: cdev on February 19, 2022, 01:29:54 am ---The thing thats been putting me off the RPIS is the micro SD cards fail on me. Ive used flash drives on the thin client too, though I suspect that may happen to them too.

--- End quote ---

Consumer-grade flash isn't really designed for 24/7 use, nor the write count a typical OS will generate. Quality will vary widely and I wouldn't really expect any guarantee of reliability, even from A-brands. Counterfeits are a huge problem too, I wouldn't even trust 'sold by Amazon' to actually get you genuine parts.

For anything like this, I'd buy industrial grade flash that's designed for exactly this, embedded systems, whether it's USB, SD, or a small SATA module. There are still limits of course, but it's widely used in high reliability applications like enterprise-grade routers. Look for SLC-based microSD cards from Swissbit, ATP, or some of the major consumer vendors like Kingston and WD produce it too. Buy through trusted channels. DigiKey stocks ATP and Swissbit, for example.


--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 19, 2022, 03:02:01 am ---It depends on the load.  Anecdotally, when the average I/O load is low, you're unlikely to get bitten by the USB glitches.

--- End quote ---

Do you know what it makes me to remember? The old W703 SoC. It has a similar problem between the integrated-Wifi and USB.

When the average transmission IO on the antenna is high, you're likely to get bitten by the USB glitches for - nobody knows, not even the science - interference or something.

Nice, ain't it?  :D

Official solution: disable the Wifi and power off the radio, there is no other way to patch/fix it.


--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 18, 2022, 06:25:00 pm ---
--- Quote from: cdev on February 16, 2022, 10:05:07 pm ---I have been wondering what the best Raspberry Pi filesystem (Ext4 has been very reliable for me - although I have heard many good things about XFS.. but on the RPI, I dont know much about their pros and cons..)
--- End quote ---
It does not matter.  ext4, xfs, and even btrfs are all more reliable than the RPI hardware.

You see, the Broadcom SOC has a serious hardware issue: in certain situations, it can drop USB packets without telling anyone.  The Foundation has done a lot of work (by junior developers, as the senior developers do not associate with open source projects) to deal with this in software, but you cannot fix a silent hardware issue in software, not completely.
--- End quote ---

Is this still true for the RPi 4?  I believe for that model the Ethernet controller is in the SoC and not attached to USB.


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