AMD Reportedly In Advanced Talks To Buy Xilinx for Roughly $30 Billion

[EverydayMuffin]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-reportedly-in-advanced-talks-to-buy-xilinx-for-roughly-dollar30-billion

[MadTux]

Much better than if Nvidia or Apple would devour them.

[SMB784]

No surprise there, we'll see major consolidation in the chip maker market in the near future, with the big 3 (Intel+Altera, ARM+Nvidia, AMD+Xilinx) offering all 3 major types of chips (CPUs, GPUs, and FPGAs).

My bet is that this merger will happen, and then ARM+Nvidia will buy up what's left of the FPGA market (Lattice, etc)

[Sal Ammoniac]

 

[EverydayMuffin]

My bet is that this merger will happen, and then ARM+Nvidia will buy up what's left of the FPGA market (Lattice, etc)

Do you really think Arm+Nvidia would buy Lattice? Someone mentioned this on the FPGA subreddit also, I just don't see this happening at all. Why would Nvidia buy a low-end FPGA supplier? Lattice barely compete with Xilinx/Intel, they are going after very different markets. No?

[SMB784]

My bet is that this merger will happen, and then ARM+Nvidia will buy up what's left of the FPGA market (Lattice, etc)

Do you really think Arm+Nvidia would buy Lattice? Someone mentioned this on the FPGA subreddit also, I just don't see this happening at all. Why would Nvidia buy a low-end FPGA supplier? Lattice barely compete with Xilinx/Intel, they are going after very different markets. No?

I'm no industry insider, but my guess would be because it's a lot cheaper to just buy the wheel rather than reinventing it. Currently Nvidia has no FPGA offerings or IP that I know of. If they are interested in making a move into the FPGA end of the market it would be helpful to have a baseline to work from even if it's from a lower tier low power/embedded FPGA chip maker.  That might make sense anyway given that ARM already specializes in embedded low power processor design which might pair quite well with offerings from Lattice.

[ralphrmartin]

I this happens, and Nvidia buy up Arm, we will have the interesting state where AMD are selling chips with Nvidia cores... (Zynq with integrated ARM processors).

[SiliconWizard]

My bet is that this merger will happen, and then ARM+Nvidia will buy up what's left of the FPGA market (Lattice, etc)

Do you really think Arm+Nvidia would buy Lattice? Someone mentioned this on the FPGA subreddit also, I just don't see this happening at all. Why would Nvidia buy a low-end FPGA supplier? Lattice barely compete with Xilinx/Intel, they are going after very different markets. No?

I'm no industry insider, but my guess would be because it's a lot cheaper to just buy the wheel rather than reinventing it. Currently Nvidia has no FPGA offerings or IP that I know of. If they are interested in making a move into the FPGA end of the market it would be helpful to have a baseline to work from even if it's from a lower tier low power/embedded FPGA chip maker.

Not just cheaper. If they are interested as you mentioned, they are just instantly killing the corresponding competition if they buy them instead of starting afresh.

Given that Intel made that exact move with Altera a while ago, this is yet another simple reason why AMD would do just the same. AMD is a direct Intel competitor, and as such, they have little choice but expand their offering in the same way, otherwise they're bound to lose ground one way or another in the long run. This is pretty common in the industry. Major competitors tend to expand their offerings in the same way. Just my 2 cents.

[helius]

I this happens, and Nvidia buy up Arm, we will have the interesting state where AMD are selling chips with Nvidia cores... (Zynq with integrated ARM processors).

Altera/Intel also have ARM cores in the Cyclone/Arria/Stratix SoC series.

[coppice]

Do you really think Arm+Nvidia would buy Lattice? Someone mentioned this on the FPGA subreddit also, I just don't see this happening at all. Why would Nvidia buy a low-end FPGA supplier? Lattice barely compete with Xilinx/Intel, they are going after very different markets. No?

I'm no industry insider, but my guess would be because it's a lot cheaper to just buy the wheel rather than reinventing it. Currently Nvidia has no FPGA offerings or IP that I know of. If they are interested in making a move into the FPGA end of the market it would be helpful to have a baseline to work from even if it's from a lower tier low power/embedded FPGA chip maker.  That might make sense anyway given that ARM already specializes in embedded low power processor design which might pair quite well with offerings from Lattice.

I think you are looking at the name FPGA as though its a homogeneous market, but it isn't. Saying someone will buy Lattice because they can't buy Xilink is like saying they will buy an MCU maker because they can't buy AMD. They are both good businesses to be in, but with very little technological overlap.

[james_s]

I'm really not a fan of all this consolidation. Every time it happens a lot of parts get discontinued, a lot of people lose their jobs, and we are left with fewer choices and less competition. Maybe it's just part of the inevitable race to the bottom that is going to leave us with the Chinese companies owning the entire market.

[SMB784]

Do you really think Arm+Nvidia would buy Lattice? Someone mentioned this on the FPGA subreddit also, I just don't see this happening at all. Why would Nvidia buy a low-end FPGA supplier? Lattice barely compete with Xilinx/Intel, they are going after very different markets. No?

I'm no industry insider, but my guess would be because it's a lot cheaper to just buy the wheel rather than reinventing it. Currently Nvidia has no FPGA offerings or IP that I know of. If they are interested in making a move into the FPGA end of the market it would be helpful to have a baseline to work from even if it's from a lower tier low power/embedded FPGA chip maker.  That might make sense anyway given that ARM already specializes in embedded low power processor design which might pair quite well with offerings from Lattice.

I think you are looking at the name FPGA as though its a homogeneous market, but it isn't. Saying someone will buy Lattice because they can't buy Xilink is like saying they will buy an MCU maker because they can't buy AMD. They are both good businesses to be in, but with very little technological overlap.

From what I have read, Lattice ranks 3rd in the world when it comes to sales of FPGAs (and second when it comes to CPLDs), where their main competitors are Xilinx, Altera (now Intel), and Microsemi.  Furthermore, they specialize in low power FPGA solutions for the mobile market (e.g. their iCE line of FPGAs), which is in line with much of ARM's product portfolio.  If Nvidia wanted to make a move into the FPGA business (as its two main competitors AMD & Intel already have), they could do much worse than buying Lattice.

[colorado.rob]

From what I have read, Lattice ranks 3rd in the world when it comes to sales of FPGAs (and second when it comes to CPLDs), where their main competitors are Xilinx, Altera (now Intel), and Microsemi.  Furthermore, they specialize in low power FPGA solutions for the mobile market (e.g. their iCE line of FPGAs), which is in line with much of ARM's product portfolio.  If Nvidia wanted to make a move into the FPGA business (as its two main competitors AMD & Intel already have), they could do much worse than buying Lattice.

I really wish Lattice would jump on the SoC bandwagon.  The three competitors you mention all have them.  An ARM Cortex M4 or equivalent RISC-V paired with an ice40 and A9 with ECP5 would fill a real niche.

[coppice]

From what I have read, Lattice ranks 3rd in the world when it comes to sales of FPGAs (and second when it comes to CPLDs), where their main competitors are Xilinx, Altera (now Intel), and Microsemi.  Furthermore, they specialize in low power FPGA solutions for the mobile market (e.g. their iCE line of FPGAs), which is in line with much of ARM's product portfolio.  If Nvidia wanted to make a move into the FPGA business (as its two main competitors AMD & Intel already have), they could do much worse than buying Lattice.

I think if you ask someone at Altera or Xilink who their competitors are, I think they will just say the other name. If you ask someone at Lattice who their competitors are they are more likely to say Microsemi than Altera or Xilink. They are currently playing in different fields.

[Mr. Scram]

I this happens, and Nvidia buy up Arm, we will have the interesting state where AMD are selling chips with Nvidia cores... (Zynq with integrated ARM processors).

They already do in a major way. AMD's TrustZone is an ARM coprocessor. Many, many AMD processors are shipped with ARM cores on the same die. It's very similar to Intel's Management Engine in the sense that it's a discrete subsystem, with similar worries about the consequences for system security.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Platform_Security_Processor

[SMB784]

From what I have read, Lattice ranks 3rd in the world when it comes to sales of FPGAs (and second when it comes to CPLDs), where their main competitors are Xilinx, Altera (now Intel), and Microsemi.  Furthermore, they specialize in low power FPGA solutions for the mobile market (e.g. their iCE line of FPGAs), which is in line with much of ARM's product portfolio.  If Nvidia wanted to make a move into the FPGA business (as its two main competitors AMD & Intel already have), they could do much worse than buying Lattice.

I think if you ask someone at Altera or Xilink who their competitors are, I think they will just say the other name. If you ask someone at Lattice who their competitors are they are more likely to say Microsemi than Altera or Xilink. They are currently playing in different fields.

And you would probably be right about that.  However, Nvidia is not in a position to buy either Xilinx or Intel, so if they want to make a play in the FPGA market (which they very well might, given that their main competitors are and there are many advantages to doing so), they will need to acquire a company with significant experience in the FPGA market if they don't want to start from scratch.  There are only two left and Lattice is the bigger of the two.

[EverydayMuffin]

And you would probably be right about that.  However, Nvidia is not in a position to buy either Xilinx or Intel, so if they want to make a play in the FPGA market (which they very well might, given that their main competitors are and there are many advantages to doing so), they will need to acquire a company with significant experience in the FPGA market if they don't want to start from scratch.  There are only two left and Lattice is the bigger of the two.

Microchip is actually the bigger FPGA supplier out of Lattice and Microchip. They passed Lattice out at some point in the last couple of years, not sure when.

Source:

[SMB784]

And you would probably be right about that.  However, Nvidia is not in a position to buy either Xilinx or Intel, so if they want to make a play in the FPGA market (which they very well might, given that their main competitors are and there are many advantages to doing so), they will need to acquire a company with significant experience in the FPGA market if they don't want to start from scratch.  There are only two left and Lattice is the bigger of the two.

Microchip is actually the bigger FPGA supplier out of Lattice and Microchip. They passed Lattice out at some point in the last couple of years, not sure when.

It would appear my information is out of date!  So, perhaps they will consider buying Microchip.  Or maybe both, they have the money.

[tszaboo]

I this happens, and Nvidia buy up Arm, we will have the interesting state where AMD are selling chips with Nvidia cores... (Zynq with integrated ARM processors).

Altera/Intel also have ARM cores in the Cyclone/Arria/Stratix SoC series.

Yes. And when was the last time Intel released a new FPGA that would be remotely interesting? It is all "big data" and "reconfigurable server" and all these buzzwords. Or actually when was the last time intel released a part that us, as a electronics designer would consider using. Or from AMD, or from Qualcom, or from Marvell or Broadcom.

When these huge semiconductor companies buy smaller ones, because they have some parts that look remotely interesting... For each part they get a dozen other parts, that we might be using or considering in our design. When they "consolidate" we always get the short end of the stick.
Have you tried calling any of these companies, and ask them for a few thousand parts?

[coppice]

Yes. And when was the last time Intel released a new FPGA that would be remotely interesting? It is all "big data" and "reconfigurable server" and all these buzzwords.

I imagine the key buzzword for both Altera and Xilink right now is "5G", rather than "big data" or "reconfigurable server".

[SiliconWizard]

I'm really not a fan of all this consolidation. Every time it happens a lot of parts get discontinued, a lot of people lose their jobs, and we are left with fewer choices and less competition. Maybe it's just part of the inevitable race to the bottom that is going to leave us with the Chinese companies owning the entire market.

Agreed.

[Muxr]

At least it's AMD. They are growing at lightning speed and I doubt there will be much in a way of eliminating redundancies. Both AMD and Xilinx needed to invest more in ML and I think they can get where they need to be if they combine their efforts sooner.

This is about competing with both Intel and Nvidia.

Both companies need this.

[asmi]

My only worry is they will turn away from hobbyists and small businesses. Right now I can ask questions from Xilinx sales guys and they will give me an answer (or pass the question along to their FAEs) even if I didn't buy 1000000 of their chips. If I do the same to AMD right now - they will tell me to go do hell, or just ignore me.

[james_s]

I've never dealt with AMD before so I don't know what they're like. I had an Athlon PC around 20 years ago that was fantastic but then it seems like they didn't have much to offer for a while and I've been on Intel ever since. AMD was nearly irrelevant for a while and I thought they might go under, glad to hear they're growing though because Intel needs some competition.

[Mr. Scram]

I'm really not a fan of all this consolidation. Every time it happens a lot of parts get discontinued, a lot of people lose their jobs, and we are left with fewer choices and less competition. Maybe it's just part of the inevitable race to the bottom that is going to leave us with the Chinese companies owning the entire market.

The pace of consolidation in the electronics market has been frightening the past 5 or 10 years. While I think AMD would be a stronger company with its own FPGA branch, I don't think that condensing a diverse field of respected companies into a few behemoths serves anyone. It doesn't tend to be good for either company for various reasons, nor the customer or state of technology. I guess only the shareholders win. I can't help but feel that the free market and big money inevitably lead to a perverted version of a good thing with people losing out all round.