Author Topic: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37  (Read 17485 times)

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Offline Jope

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Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« on: February 08, 2021, 12:08:20 am »
The Arrow DECA MAX 10 board is now available for $37: link.
Originally $169, then $65 (according to this article).

AFAIK the cheapest MAX 10 board currently available.
 
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2021, 01:24:07 am »
The Arrow DECA MAX 10 board is now available for $37: link.
Originally $169, then $65 (according to this article).

AFAIK the cheapest MAX 10 board currently available.

Not the cheapest; QMTECH actually has a cheaper board: https://qmtechchina.aliexpress.com/store/4486047

But the DECA board is likely better designed with more features.
 

Offline isometrik

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2021, 01:37:45 am »
  • QMTECH's MAX 10 board has a 10M08 device [8K programmable logic elements].
  • The Arrow DECA MAX 10 board has a 10M50 FPGA [50K programmable logic elements].


 
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Offline Jope

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2021, 01:44:26 am »
Not the cheapest; QMTECH actually has a cheaper board

The QMTECH board has a 10M08, while the Arrow has a 10M50 (8k vs 50k logical elements). The Arrow board also has DDR3 RAM, Flash, Ethernet und USB PHY, etc. The QMTECH has just a USB UART.
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2021, 01:58:25 am »
The Arrow DECA MAX 10 board is now available for $37: link.
Originally $169, then $65 (according to this article).

AFAIK the cheapest MAX 10 board currently available.

Not the cheapest; QMTECH actually has a cheaper board: https://qmtechchina.aliexpress.com/store/4486047

But the DECA board is likely better designed with more features.
OMG, you are comparing a phony slowest MAX10M08CU169C8G (it's a smaller one relabeled as Intel's first 3 MAX10's all have the same die) running in lower single supply mode to a true highest speed 50K gate 1.6megabit core ram 10M50DAF484C6G in full power dual supply mode with a 512meg 16bit DDR3, flash + and SD card slot, HDMI transmitter with audio, audio codec line in and out, ethernet, and so much more....
« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 02:03:12 am by BrianHG »
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Offline retiredfeline

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2021, 02:10:54 am »
The Arrow DECA MAX 10 board is now available for $37: link.
Originally $169, then $65 (according to this article).

AFAIK the cheapest MAX 10 board currently available.

How much was shipping for you? I doubt if they'll ship free to here and I didn't want to register to find out.
 

Offline Jope

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2021, 02:37:13 am »
How much was shipping for you? I doubt if they'll ship free to here and I didn't want to register to find out.

No shipping charges to EU. I paid €37 including shipping (= 0), VAT and customs. Board should arrive this Wednesday.
 
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2021, 02:41:36 am »
Not the cheapest; QMTECH actually has a cheaper board

The QMTECH board has a 10M08, while the Arrow has a 10M50 (8k vs 50k logical elements). The Arrow board also has DDR3 RAM, Flash, Ethernet und USB PHY, etc. The QMTECH has just a USB UART.

Certainly, as I said, the DECA has more features and a better design. (And OK I should have added, by far.)

My point was just that it was technically not " the cheapest MAX 10 board currently available", as you had said. Nothing more. ;)
And sure, the DECA is definitely a much better deal there, especially at this price.
 

Online RoGeorge

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2021, 04:14:44 am »
Tempting price!

It seems the only NIOS II processor core (IP) available for free is the light one, a version without MMU (Memory Management Unit).  The license for the biggest and fastest NIOS II core IP (with MMU included) is about $400.  In the NIOS II manual is written that a fast core without license can run in hardware but it is "time-limited", whatever that means (couldn't find how long is "time-limited").

Can this board run Linux for free?

Online RoGeorge

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2021, 05:52:40 am »
I didn't find any estimation for bigger NIOS II softcores, but the light one takes only 600-700 LE.  My wishful thinking says the bigger version won't be 100 times bigger.  I'm more concerned about the availability of free IPs than the size.

Without an OS the board will be painful to use for example as a DAQ, or as a MIPI to LAN, or as camera to HDMI, or for any other project that is useful and not just a blinky demo.  My hope is the board will be able to run Linux, otherwise why adding so much DDR3 to it (512MB).

Anybody knows if this board can run Linux at all, please?

LATER EDIT:

Found that it can run Linux, not sure about the license.  It's from 2015, I didn't even know MAX10 is that old.   :)
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/altera-www/global/en_US/uploads/c/ca/DECA-Linux-Tutorial_15_1.pdf
« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 06:12:12 am by RoGeorge »
 

Offline retiredfeline

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2021, 06:06:16 am »
I just ordered my two copies to make their $50 minimum free shipping threshold.

It looks like this is the situation for me and shipping for one board costs more than one board.  :-\
 

Offline Daixiwen

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2021, 09:04:51 am »
You need the MMU version of the Nios2 CPU to run Linux, and even then IIRC it's a heavily patched version of Linux, not an official one. And it runs rather slowly. A smaller real time OS optimized for embedded platforms, such as FreeRTOS, could be a better choice. Those usually don't even require an MMU.
As you said the free version of Nios doesn't have an MMU. You can still make your own project with the full Nios CPU with MMU, but then it will run in "opencore evaluation mode", meaning that the JTAG needs to be tethered to your PC while you run your application. As soon as you disconnect the USB port doing the JTAG communication (of after a fixed time delay after that) the Nios CPU stops working.
 

Offline mon2

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2021, 09:34:40 am »
@retiredfeline, we have free shipping with their loyalty program. Need to confirm but would you be interested if the price is $49.95usd? Need to confirm our cost and resell for us to process. Send us a private message if of interest.
 

Offline mon2

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2021, 09:42:29 am »
@retiredfeline, You can also join their program and get the same deal, I think. Please see their website for full details.
 

Offline retiredfeline

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2021, 09:55:18 am »
I did join the loyalty program. Free shipping only if I purchase over $50.
 

Offline mon2

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2021, 09:58:20 am »
Ok. I understand. We buy in high volumes so get free shipping for even a $1 purchase. Have been with Arrow for decades. Let us know what is a fair purchase fee for this kit. Will confirm when our office opens. The local taxes will have to be paid by you. That is normal.
 

Offline mon2

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2021, 10:00:50 am »
You could bump up the order with this kit and add a few usb and ethernet cables to reach the $50 min buy. Just an idea. Or let us know if we can help you.
 

Offline retiredfeline

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2021, 10:12:09 am »
You could bump up the order with this kit and add a few usb and ethernet cables to reach the $50 min buy. Just an idea. Or let us know if we can help you.

Thanks. Yes, I could buy two. The question really is am I ready for it. I still have to get a round tuit to play with the knock-off MAX10 board I bought some time back. Currently I don't have access to my workbench due to renovations. So I think I'll ignore my FOMO. There'll always be something around the corner.
 

Online woofy

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2021, 10:57:59 am »
GBP27.50 + VAT, no MOQ and free shipping to the UK. I couldn't resist.
I can't find a specific data sheet for the 10M50DAF484C6G, but from the part number I'm guessing the 10M50DAF484C6G is just a faster version of the 10M50DAF484C7G.


Offline ResistorsAreFutile

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2021, 01:17:40 pm »
OMG, you are comparing a phony slowest MAX10M08CU169C8G (it's a smaller one relabeled as Intel's first 3 MAX10's all have the same die)
How do they pull that one off? Surely the Intel tools won't flash a different part?
 

Online dolbeau

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2021, 01:44:17 pm »
Can this board run Linux for free?

Linux-on-LiteX-VexRiscv works on the de10-lite, which has a very similar FPGA (10M50DAF484C6G vs. 10M50DAF484C7G) and only 64 MiB SDRAM, so theoretically you could run it on the Deca board. It depends if LiteX can be made to work with the specific implementation of peripherals in this board...

Update: litedram has a generic SDR PHY and specific DDR PHYs, but not for the MAX10 - so for the Deca board the onboard DDR3 is unsupported at this stage :-(
« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 03:39:03 pm by dolbeau »
 

Online Scrts

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2021, 02:22:22 pm »
The Arrow DECA MAX 10 board is now available for $37: link.

Such size FPGA with all the available peripherals is truly a very good price!

I remember running Nios II/f with hardware multiplier, but no MMU on Cyclone III 55kLE part and Nios was around 3700 LEs. So plenty of space for other logic.
 

Offline asmi

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2021, 02:57:02 pm »
I don't really know what I'm gonna do with them, but I ordered a couple anyway :-DD I wonder what's the internal flash endurance? How many times can be in overwritten before it goes bust?

Online woofy

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2021, 03:21:40 pm »
I don't really know what I'm gonna do with them, but I ordered a couple anyway :-DD I wonder what's the internal flash endurance? How many times can be in overwritten before it goes bust?

I wondered that as well so looked it up, its 10,000 Erase/write cycles/page.
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/programmable/us/en/pdfs/literature/hb/max-10/m10_datasheet.pdf
Page 8.

Offline BrianHG

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Re: Arrow DECA MAX 10 board for $37
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2021, 03:33:59 pm »
OMG, you are comparing a phony slowest MAX10M08CU169C8G (it's a smaller one relabeled as Intel's first 3 MAX10's all have the same die)
How do they pull that one off? Surely the Intel tools won't flash a different part?
Here is what it's like for CycloneIV: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/fpga/quartus-prime-18-1-cant-fit-design-in-device/msg3179082/#msg3179082
I've found out if the lower package IO pin count matches between devices, the die matches.  For any the Cyclones, Quartus cant even tell which device your JTag is connected to, you need to tell Quartus during compile, IE, the limitations Quartus tells you based on your compiled device is purely software limited.  Once the free IO count drops for a given package, the die is different.  Since MAX10 has a built in flash, it may have a hidden fuse or once tricked into a larger device, it becomes that device.
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