Best replacement for AMD/Xilinx CPLDs XC9500

[CosteC]

Hello guys

What would you recommend as replacement for AMD/Xilinx XC9500 series? I got some small projects on XC9536XL-10 I need to redesign. I would like to have:

• 3.3 V IO if possible.
• JTAG = boundary scan capability
• Ability to program it via JTAG, with documented protocol
• Chance to survive on market for next 10 years would be nice
• two or less voltages required

What are options? What are your experiences?

P.S. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/fpga/no-more-xilinx-cplds-and-spartan-3s/msg5284111/#msg5284111 with EoL note.

[nctnico]

The small FPGAs from Gowin are what I'm using for exactly this purpose.

[coromonadalix]

ATF1504
ATF1508

Mostly for the 3.3v and 5v  i/o voltages compatibility

44-lead
TQFP

44-lead
J-lead

84-lead
J-lead

100-lead
TQFP

But  we did a small carrier board for them to mimic some Xilinx xc9572xl plcc84 pins we had, even the programming pins  ....  worked pretty fine

the programmer from Kanda  is not too expensive,  and software is included or downloadable, and you can get it from microchip too

https://www.kanda.com/CPLD-Programmers.175.html

[PCB.Wiz]

the programmer from Kanda  is not too expensive,  and software is included or downloadable, and you can get it from microchip too
https://www.kanda.com/CPLD-Programmers.175.html

FWIR, the FT2232 / FT2232H can be used to program ATF15xx series too.

[bingo600]

FWIR, the FT2232 / FT2232H can be used to program ATF15xx series too.

Some info here
https://www.hackup.net/2020/01/erasing-and-programming-the-atf1504-cpld/

Note the user comments , about the caps for the MAX662A

[KrudyZ]

CosteC,
you said "small projects", so why wouldn't you just buy existing stock.
DigiKey for one still shows tens of thousands of that part in stock.
For new designs, I would likely go with Lattice, but the Chinese vendors are gaining traction for smaller programmable logic as others mentioned.
Hard to say who's going to be around in five or ten years.

[CosteC]

Thank you guys

I think Microchip seems sensible solution for future.
Buying stock is obvious solution, yet it would be nice to be able to have CPLDs is future designs. I consider CPLDs great solution in many cases, not replaceable by 8 or 32 bit microcontrollers. FPGA is just too complex and expensive in many cases.

Any practical tips for ex-ATMEL ATF15 family, from experienced user?

[PCB.Wiz]

Thank you guys

I think Microchip seems sensible solution for future.
Buying stock is obvious solution, yet it would be nice to be able to have CPLDs is future designs. I consider CPLDs great solution in many cases, not replaceable by 8 or 32 bit microcontrollers. FPGA is just too complex and expensive in many cases.

Any practical tips for ex-ATMEL ATF15 family, from experienced user?

Grab WinCUPL and see how your code ports to that ?
The 3v3 ATF150x'V' series have full push pull outputs, whilst the 5V variants have NMOS outputs giving TTL high.

The 'L' suffix parts have wake up operation, so they are slightly slower, but have low static power.

The ATF150xBE/RE are newer parts using a 1.8V core/process, so they have speeds close to coolrunners.
Microchip still show them as available, tho not stocked, but maybe they will schedule more production with others exiting ?

WinCUPL has a functional simulator, and it is quite quick to download and run files in the actual circuit.

[TomS_]

If you already have designs written in Verilog or VHDL then consider downloading Altera Quartus 13 instead of trying to convert it to CUPL. You should be able to convert the Xilinx project to a Quartus project relatively easily, compile, and then run the output through a tool called pof2jed to produce a file for programming the Atmel parts.

CUPL has it's uses but it is very primitive. I only use it for GALs these days because Quartus does a much better job and Verilog/VHDL is much more portable.

[SiliconWizard]

Lattice MachXO2/3
iCE40

[CosteC]

Which you consider more stable/less probable to go obsolete?
Which native software is nicer to use?

LATTICE vs Microchip/Atmel - this decision is not simple. Any tips?

[PCB.Wiz]

Which you consider more stable/less probable to go obsolete?
Which native software is nicer to use?

LATTICE vs Microchip/Atmel - this decision is not simple. Any tips?

It also depends on Package, voltage and speed needs.

eg Atmel do not have 48 pin offerings, with separate JTAG pins.
Lattice show 5V parts as being EOL.
Lattice do have 256 macrocell CPLD and above, whilst Atmel top out at 128 Macrocells.
Atmel do have smaller SPLDs still active, ATF16V8/22V10 and ATF750L (need external ZIF programmers)

If you are in the XC9536XL-10 area, above 128 Macrocells may not matter to you.
 

I'd suggest download both tool chains, and port a simple design you have already.

[c64]

Any practical tips for ex-ATMEL ATF15 family, from experienced user?

1. Use Quartus 13 for your design.
2. Convert output to JED format using POF2JED
3a. Use ATMISP to program the chip. It supports multiple cables, like USB cable from Atmel or Altera Byteblaster (if you have computer with LPT port).
3b. Another option, if you have Altera USB blaster (clones are sold everywhere for few bucks), use ATMISP to convert JED to SVF, then Altera SVF to JAM converter (s2j_23.exe) to convert it to JAM, then Quartus command line tool quartus_jli.exe to program the chip.

I use Altera Byteblaster with LPT port. If you don't have one, it's very easy to DIY, schematics available on the net.

ATF15 are actually more advanced than compatible Altera CPLD, but to use those extra features you need Prochip Designer from Microchip (can request 1 month free trial. It doesn't need any activation or internet and you can run in VM for 1 month. After this ...  ) But I could not make Prochip Designer to work correctly with timing constraints. See my other thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/fpga/cpldfpga-design-flow/

[dmendesf]

Now (ok, soon) we can get an entire microcontroller bundled with a CPLD:

https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/PIC16F13145

I wonder if VHDL can be used instead of another graphic input tool...

[PCB.Wiz]

Now (ok, soon) we can get an entire microcontroller bundled with a CPLD:

https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/PIC16F13145

I wonder if VHDL can be used instead of another graphic input tool...

Interesting, MCUs have had config logic for a while, this looks to increase that slightly, to 4 groups of 8 cells, with modest speeds.
The fanin is well below a CPLD or even SPLD, so there are limits to what you could do here.
Each group could manage something like a 4-bit binary counter ?

[dmendesf]

Not really sure about the true capabilities of this PIC. Documentation is very lacking. It has two types of configurable logic: CLCs and CLBs.

[colorado.rob]

Microchip produce AVR MCUs with CCLs (configurable custom logic). And Cypress has had PSoCs for a while.

https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/microcontrollers-and-microprocessors/8-bit-mcus/core-independent-and-analog-peripherals/system-flexibility/custom-logic

https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/microcontroller/32-bit-psoc-arm-cortex-microcontroller/32-bit-psoc-5-lp-arm-cortex-m3/

The CCLs on the AVRs are rather limited in what they can do.

[SiliconWizard]

Which you consider more stable/less probable to go obsolete?
Which native software is nicer to use?

LATTICE vs Microchip/Atmel - this decision is not simple. Any tips?

EIther is fine. I would favor Lattice. For Microchip, you need to figure out which parts exactly you are considering. Microchip has bought companies over the years. I don't think they have any CPLD or FPGA of their "own" so far (if you exclude the MCUs with embedded logic blocks), they have Atmel CPLDs (I don't know how many of them are still current) and Microsemi FPGAs. All I can say is that I found Libero (software environment for Microsemi FPGAs) relatively horrific compared to Lattice tools, with which I've never had any problem. As to availability, there shouldn't be much of a difference.

For the tools themselves, you may want to install them and figure out which you are more comfortable with.

Also, when you said "3.3V IOs if possible", did you mean you need 3.3V IOs only, or also possibly 5V? In the latter case, that will restrict your options drastically these days, and Lattice won't be an answer.

[nctnico]

Which you consider more stable/less probable to go obsolete?
Which native software is nicer to use?

LATTICE vs Microchip/Atmel - this decision is not simple. Any tips?

Choose neither. Really take a look at Gowin. Nice tools, good documentation, lots of cheap boards, chips are easy to integrate in your design and simple to program from a microcontroller. Contrary to Microchip and Lattice's offerings, the Gowin parts are modern designs.

[dolbeau]

Choose neither. Really take a look at Gowin. Nice tools, good documentation, lots of cheap boards, chips are easy to integrate in your design and simple to program from a microcontroller. Contrary to Microchip and Lattice's offerings, the Gowin parts are modern designs.

The 'modern' part mihgt be the problem... does Gowin make parts with 5V[-tolerant] I/O? (such as 3V3 TTL-compatible) It was a big selling point of the XC9500[XL]. If you don't need 5V[-tolerant] I/O, they're a lot easier to replace.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Which you consider more stable/less probable to go obsolete?
Which native software is nicer to use?

LATTICE vs Microchip/Atmel - this decision is not simple. Any tips?

Choose neither. Really take a look at Gowin. Nice tools, good documentation, lots of cheap boards, chips are easy to integrate in your design and simple to program from a microcontroller. Contrary to Microchip and Lattice's offerings, the Gowin parts are modern designs.

Lattice do provide source code to program their parts from an MCU over JTAG - source can be from a  file or CONST array

[nctnico]

Choose neither. Really take a look at Gowin. Nice tools, good documentation, lots of cheap boards, chips are easy to integrate in your design and simple to program from a microcontroller. Contrary to Microchip and Lattice's offerings, the Gowin parts are modern designs.

The 'modern' part mihgt be the problem... does Gowin make parts with 5V[-tolerant] I/O? (such as 3V3 TTL-compatible) It was a big selling point of the XC9500[XL]. If you don't need 5V[-tolerant] I/O, they're a lot easier to replace.

5V tolerance doesn't bring you 5V compliance. With the XC9500 you'll need level shifters to interface with 5V logic because the 3.3V output levels are not suitable to produce valid 5V CMOS logic levels. Been there, done that.

Which you consider more stable/less probable to go obsolete?
Which native software is nicer to use?

LATTICE vs Microchip/Atmel - this decision is not simple. Any tips?

Choose neither. Really take a look at Gowin. Nice tools, good documentation, lots of cheap boards, chips are easy to integrate in your design and simple to program from a microcontroller. Contrary to Microchip and Lattice's offerings, the Gowin parts are modern designs.

Lattice do provide source code to program their parts from an MCU over JTAG - source can be from a  file or CONST array

For Gowin devices you don't need that. Configuring their FPGAs over SPI is as simple as communicating with an SPI ADC or DAC.

[client]

agm407vet6/zet6,which integrated an stm32F407 and a FPGA on one chip, and the  FPGA can be developed by Quartus, that means it is compatible with Altera's products.
Its tol price is below $2 in China, and you can buy it from
www.taobao.com

also,you can access their offical website
http://www.agm-micro.com/products.aspx?lang=&id=67&p=38

[ResistorsAreFutile]

That's a very interesting product family, other than not being 5v tolerant it ticks a heck of a lot of boxes for my uses. But until AGM have the parts and a dev board available from English-language distributors I'm going to pass.

[bingo600]

But until AGM have the parts and a dev board available from English-language distributors I'm going to pass.

Yes ...
Too bad you can't get the devel boards on Ali..

Saw them for around 8...14 CNY
http://www.tcx-micro.com/