Author Topic: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE  (Read 13787 times)

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Online ali_asadzadeh

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FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« on: August 07, 2015, 01:45:29 pm »
Hi,
Please see this JTAG HS3 Programming Cable from digilnet
http://digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,395,1298&Prod=JTAG-HS3

I'm sure they have used FT2232 chip for making this happen, I want to know what are the contents of the attached SPI flash to the FTDI chip, so we could have a cheap way of USB programmer that Xilinx software will support it.
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Offline Bassman59

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2015, 05:45:19 pm »
Hi,
Please see this JTAG HS3 Programming Cable from digilnet
http://digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,395,1298&Prod=JTAG-HS3

I'm sure they have used FT2232 chip for making this happen, I want to know what are the contents of the attached SPI flash to the FTDI chip, so we could have a cheap way of USB programmer that Xilinx software will support it.

According to THAT VERY PAGE TO WHICH YOU LINKED, "It can be attached to target boards using Xilinx’s 2x7 connector*, and is compatible with all Xilinx tools, including iMPACT, Chipscope, and EDK."

So you don't really need to know what sort of chip they used in the thing, nor the contents of its flash, because it works with the Xilinx software.
 

Online andersm

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2015, 07:25:05 pm »
So you don't really need to know what sort of chip they used in the thing, nor the contents of its flash, because it works with the Xilinx software.
I think he was asking about how to clone the cable.

Online ali_asadzadeh

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2015, 05:29:47 am »
Thanks, Ok how to clone the cable? or I personally find that it should be possible to use FTDI chips to do the job, for example FT2232 has the hardware support for it, the question is how to use ISE tools to do the job and detect them as a supported programmer, so we could use it for debugging purposes too. like chipscope etc...
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Offline electro-logic

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2015, 10:36:32 pm »
Are you sure there isn't also a CPLD?
FT2232 can do JTAG without Flash, commands are from pc that recognize PID/VID of the device.
 

Offline Moondeck

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2015, 03:26:03 pm »
Use a microcontroller maybe?
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Online Gyro

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Online ali_asadzadeh

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Offline mark03

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2015, 03:12:30 pm »
If you are using Vivado, there is another possibility.  The JTAG comms are network transparent thanks to something called TCF (target communications framework).  I don't have the links handy, but in principle you could make your own JTAG adapter, which need not be USB-compatible with the Xilinx one.  Then write a matching TCF server for it that speaks the same TCF protocol to the rest of Vivado.
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2015, 03:21:54 pm »
Thanks, Ok how to clone the cable? or I personally find that it should be possible to use FTDI chips to do the job, for example FT2232 has the hardware support for it, the question is how to use ISE tools to do the job and detect them as a supported programmer, so we could use it for debugging purposes too. like chipscope etc...
i personally find that all electronics should be sold for 1$ ... no matter what it is.

why don't you buy that cable and take a look ? oh right , it's got to be free ...
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Offline mark03

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2015, 05:28:26 pm »
My two cents...

In an ideal world, the "plumbing" of embedded development would be fully open and documented.  JTAG falls into that category.  I see no reason why I should not be able to have ONE vendor-independent JTAG adapter which works in any FPGA or MCU development environment.  They all have USB on one end and JTAG on the other (modulo the traditional/SWD choice, and a handful of pinouts).  I see no essential differences between them, except for secrets and vendor lock-in.

The intrinsic cost of these widgets is also very low.  Anything higher than $20-$50 (wild guess) is pure vendor lock-in gouging, DRM's evil hardware twin.  If it saves a handful of jobs in the US/Europe that is a silver lining, but IMO this practice is at its root unethical.  In some cases it actually feeds the crap Chinese clone market, because engineers are smart enough to know when they're being taken for a ride, and look elsewhere.

It all seems a bit pointless, frankly.  Most companies making both tools and widgets the tools are designed to work with, have discovered that making the tools free is the way to go.  I wonder how much revenue Xilinx, e.g., derives from Vivado vs the chips themselves, and what would be the economics of making the full Vivado suite completely free (as in beer, not speech), stealing a bunch of Altera customers in the process.

Sorry for the OT rant.
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2015, 06:39:55 pm »
JTAG is open and standardized. the problem is the 'other side'

you want to use what on the other side ? usb ? firewire ? rs232 ? printerport ? that requires a bit of translational hardware and some software....

so bummer there. some dude does it with an ftdi , some others do it with a cypress 8051 with usb , some to it with pics or other mcu's.
everyone rolled his own , history ... the first xilinx cables were printerports and 4 resistors. later , to speed up download they did parallel to serial conversion in a dongle. then serial came along , then usb... rehash ,rewash .

same with the config proms. xilinx rolled their own historically cause noone had this.... now they use simple SPI devices.

it's all history. xilinx or altera would rather not have to make these downloaders and focus on rolling out new silicon. all this 'support' is non-revenue work.

they could easily go : buy this tool form xyz and we work with that. but then the cheapo users complain....
as a company i do not want to dick around making a usb to jtag dongle. my engineering time is more valuable. i will buy the 50$ usb jtag box from altera and be done with it.
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Offline hamster_nz

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2015, 09:16:03 pm »
@ali_asadzadeh This post might be of interest to you....

http://forum.gadgetfactory.net/index.php?/topic/1747-board-support-in-xilinx-impact/

It points that if you use a FT2232H and connect it up as on page two of:

http://www.saanlima.com/download/pipistrello-v2.0/pipistrello_v2_schematic.pdf

And you put the correct information in theFT2232H's ROM

And you have the Digilent Impact H/W drivers installed, then it just all works...
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Online ali_asadzadeh

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2015, 05:23:25 am »
Thanks all, free_electron please notice that xilinx platform cable cost a fortune (225USD)...

http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/hw-usb-ii-g.html

And Also I have lot's of Jtag cables around like J-link, AVR dragon ,STK600 and etc... why I should have the same tool for every other company! fortunately ARM solve the problem some how, so At least for doing my Cortex devices from NXP, Atmel, ST, Freescale I do not need different Jtag probes!  I do not understand why J-link Does not support Xilinx and Altera though!
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 05:25:24 am by ali_asadzadeh »
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Offline Moondeck

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2015, 05:50:24 am »
Ever heard of GoodFET?
Thanks all, free_electron please notice that xilinx platform cable cost a fortune (225USD)...

http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/hw-usb-ii-g.html

And Also I have lot's of Jtag cables around like J-link, AVR dragon ,STK600 and etc... why I should have the same tool for every other company! fortunately ARM solve the problem some how, so At least for doing my Cortex devices from NXP, Atmel, ST, Freescale I do not need different Jtag probes!  I do not understand why J-link Does not support Xilinx and Altera though!
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Online oPossum

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2020, 07:53:54 am »
EEPROM contents and programming instructions: https://gist.github.com/rikka0w0/24b58b54473227502fa0334bbe75c3c1
 


Online NorthGuy

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2020, 01:43:22 pm »
I installed FT232H on my board and wanted to program it through Vivado. Turns out, the FTDI has an external EEPROM which must have a license for use with Vivado. No place where you could buy the license though. What a bummer.

But this is all documented - JTAG, configuaration, FT232H. It took me about 3 days to create my own software to configure FPGA (was Artix-7 in my case) and create a design to program built-in flash. Later I discovered that this wasn't necessary - openOCD can configure FPGAs through FT232H. But it was too late.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2020, 02:16:19 pm »
Later I discovered that this wasn't necessary - openOCD can configure FPGAs through FT232H. But it was too late.

Yes. For those interested: take a look in the share/openocd/scripts/cpld subdirectory.
There are config files for the Xilinx 6 and 7 series.
 

Online asmi

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2020, 02:48:28 pm »
Yes. For those interested: take a look in the share/openocd/scripts/cpld subdirectory.
There are config files for the Xilinx 6 and 7 series.
The greatest advantage of Digilent cables is ability to use ILA and Vivado HW manager for live debugging and monitoring. Configuration is the easiest part IMHO as there are many ways to get it to work, and there are published specs & code examples for getting it to work.
That said, I see no reason to include this circuitry into each and every board, instead I bought a single HS3 cable, and include 14 pin JTAG connector that this cable connects to. I'm also thinking about moving onto TagConnect cable as that solution will allow to remove JTAG connector altogether from future boards.

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2020, 03:25:12 pm »
That said, I see no reason to include this circuitry into each and every board, instead I bought a single HS3 cable, and include 14 pin JTAG connector that this cable connects to. I'm also thinking about moving onto TagConnect cable as that solution will allow to remove JTAG connector altogether from future boards.

Oh, agreed.
 

Offline tmbinc

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2020, 07:46:12 pm »
You could use https://github.com/tmbinc/xvcd to bridge Xilix labtools to an FTDI, but it's a bit ugly. You could also bridge to a RPi (https://github.com/tmbinc/xvcd/tree/tmbinc/xvcd-rpi) or some other custom board. This fully works with Vivado HW manager/ILA etc.

As others have mentioned, an FT2232H only works with the digilent driver if the right eeprom contents are there... https://shop.trenz-electronic.de/en/TE0790-03-XMOD-FTDI-JTAG-Adapter-Xilinx-compatible for example sells FT2232H with the right EEPROM contents (as well as a cheaper version without that, for use with OpenOCD etc.).

Or of course you can drive JTAG on your own - it's really simple and well documented.
 

Online ali_asadzadeh

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2020, 05:50:29 am »
Quote
You could use https://github.com/tmbinc/xvcd to bridge Xilix labtools to an FTDI, but it's a bit ugly. You could also bridge to a RPi (https://github.com/tmbinc/xvcd/tree/tmbinc/xvcd-rpi) or some other custom board. This fully works with Vivado HW manager/ILA etc.

As others have mentioned, an FT2232H only works with the digilent driver if the right eeprom contents are there... https://shop.trenz-electronic.de/en/TE0790-03-XMOD-FTDI-JTAG-Adapter-Xilinx-compatible for example sells FT2232H with the right EEPROM contents (as well as a cheaper version without that, for use with OpenOCD etc.).

Or of course you can drive JTAG on your own - it's really simple and well documented.
Thanks for sharing, how should we do it with your repo?
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Online NorthGuy

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2020, 03:44:47 pm »
That said, I see no reason to include this circuitry into each and every board, instead I bought a single HS3 cable, and include 14 pin JTAG connector that this cable connects to.

The reason is not difficult to see. Say, if you want to sell your board to people who won't  have a cable, or even don't know anything about FPGAs.
 

Online asmi

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Re: FTDI based Xilinx programmer supported by ISE
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2020, 04:00:30 pm »
The reason is not difficult to see. Say, if you want to sell your board to people who won't  have a cable, or even don't know anything about FPGAs.
Well considering the "solution" offered here is essentially a piracy, you won't be selling these things for very long before you get a lawsuit.
 
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