Author Topic: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board  (Read 13268 times)

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Offline djrmTopic starter

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Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« on: July 31, 2021, 11:12:22 pm »
Greetings everyone,

This is my first post although I have been a member for a while now. I have one of the Qmtech Wukong boards and whilst learning about it I have been creating a git repo containing some support files. of interest may be the board definition files, ddr3 memory and gigabit ethernet components I have been experimenting with. Everything is briefly described here with links to the files in the readme. Its mainly Verilog and built with Vivado, I'll be adding accompanying Vitis projects shortly.

I would be interested to hear from anybody who has used one of these boards.

https://github.com/DavidJRichards/QMTECH_XC7A100T_Wukong_Board

hth David.
 
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Online radiolistener

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2021, 08:34:14 am »
Don't know about Xilinx boards from QMTECH, but Altera boards have some issues. For example GMII PHY clock signals are connected to a usual GPIO pins (not CLK), which prevents to use it to clock PLL for clock generation. Also they don't have CLK inputs, the only CLK input which is used is onboard 50 MHz osclillator, so you will be unable to clock your design from any other source, because Altera PLL can be clocked from CLK pins only.
 

Offline djrmTopic starter

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2021, 09:24:36 am »
Don't know about Xilinx boards from QMTECH, but Altera boards have some issues. For example GMII PHY clock signals are connected to a usual GPIO pins (not CLK), which prevents to use it to clock PLL for clock generation. Also they don't have CLK inputs, the only CLK input which is used is onboard 50 MHz osclillator, so you will be unable to clock your design from any other source, because Altera PLL can be clocked from CLK pins only.

Hi radiolistner,

Thanks, I'll have to check which pins are clock inputs, do you have a link/model for the Altera board with this problem, I'd like to compare the schematic with my own board.
I have a problem already with the qspi flash where I can't synthesize the design with the pin it is using for its clock. I have yet to test any IP using the qspi. Vitis is able to write to it though. I am looking for a PL design example to test the qspi flash.

Kind regards, David.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2021, 07:39:56 pm »
I have used a few QMTECH boards with XIlinx parts, but not this one. They are OK for prototyping stuff, but all my boards have "smaller" FPGAs.

What I've read about those boards with Artix 7 100T/200T is that decoupling, and power supplies, are undersized. Not too mention no heatsink. So forget about using them using a significant fraction of the internal resources at high frequencies.
 

Offline djrmTopic starter

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2021, 09:17:48 pm »
I have used a few QMTECH boards with XIlinx parts, but not this one. They are OK for prototyping stuff, but all my boards have "smaller" FPGAs.
What I've read about those boards with Artix 7 100T/200T is that decoupling, and power supplies, are undersized. Not too mention no heatsink. So forget about using them using a significant fraction of the internal resources at high frequencies.

Greetings SiliconWizard, thanks for your comments.

I do not know what you have read about these boards but I see no sign of any heat sinks on any of the other entry level development boards from the major manufacturers. For my purpose which is learning about these devices the board appears quite suitable, especially considering the cost compared to the alternatives.

I shall probably find out if the decoupling is insufficient but I haven't had any stability or heat problems - I like to leave it running for a day or two from time to time to check from time to time. I imagine extra decoupling cant be retro fitted in a meaningful way.

Some other Altera boards I have bought have had loads of small peripherals onboard, eventually these become a hinderance taking up valuable pins which are more usefully exposed for other purposes, I like the mix on this board with just the high speed components on board together with a big expansion port.

Kind regards, David.
 

Offline Mario87

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2021, 09:20:25 am »
Looks interesting, but from the picture on your GitHub it seems that the traces to the HDMI and GTP headers are not length matched for the differential pairs, so that might start causing issues on higher speed projects and kind of makes the GTP transceivers no more useful than the standard IO which are still rated for 950Mbps on the -1 speed rated devices (which I assume this is) or 1250Mbps on the higher speed rated 7-series FPGA's (these speeds are specifically for LVDS networking applications according to the Xilinx datasheets).

I do know what you mean about most dev boards having IO used up by other peripherals and it can be a pain. However Trenz Electronic make some small SoM's with various FPGA's such as this one... https://shop.trenz-electronic.de/en/TE0712-02-82C36-L-FPGA-Module-with-Xilinx-Artix-7-XC7A200T-2C-1-GByte-DDR3-4-x-5-cm-low-profile

They use Razor Beam High-Speed hermaphroditic Terminals and also sell what they call "carrier boards" like this if you want something pre-made like most development boards... https://shop.trenz-electronic.de/en/TE0701-06-Carrier-Board-for-Trenz-Electronic-4-x-5-Modules?c=552

However the great thing is because it is an SoM you can just make your own carrier board and have all IO connected as you want, or your carrier board can be nothing but header pins if thats what you desire in order to give full flexibility.

Yes, they are on the more expensive side and yes making your own custom barrier board is not something everyone can do with ease and yes it is more work / effort, but if you want true flexibility and a system that has been designed with all the correct characteristics from a "reputable" company then it seems the best option from what I have seen so far.

I actually nearly got one, but in the end opted for a more traditional dev board from Digilent purely because for me to make use of their SOM in development stages at least, I would need to make up my own custom carrier board to suit my needs which is not out of the realms of possibility, but that in itself is not exactly a small task (as I mentioned above) as I have to consider all the power rails, impedance, manufacturing of the board, how to program and interface to the FPGA via Vivado, etc, etc. A lot less hassle to just make use of an "off the shelf" board for my needs, but just wanted to put it out there that there are high end boards from the main manufacturers that will give great flexibility providing you have the time to spend getting everything as you want.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 09:22:40 am by Mario87 »
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2021, 04:43:41 pm »
I do not know what you have read about these boards but I see no sign of any heat sinks on any of the other entry level development boards from the major manufacturers. For my purpose which is learning about these devices the board appears quite suitable, especially considering the cost compared to the alternatives.

You probably missed the point, then. The board you showed sports Artix-7/100T or 200T, which are already BIG FPGAs. Most "entry-level" boards out there with Artix-7 parts only sport an Artix-7/35T or so.

One example of board from Digilent with a 100T is this one: https://store.digilentinc.com/usb104-a7-artix-7-fpga-development-board-with-syzygy-compatible-expansion/
I wouldn't call it "entry level". That said, it doesn't seem to come with a heatsink. But I would seriously consider adding one if I were going to do anything "serious" with this board.

Point is, 100T (and all the more 200T) can dissipate A LOT of power, and a simple review of the schematics (that QMTECH kindly provides) shows that power supplies are undersized if you want to use the FPGA at its full potential. It can also be seen that decoupling is a bit on the low side.

As to heat dissipation, even a 35T will get pretty hot while running depending on your design, but a heatsink is usually not required. A 100T or 200T? Things will get hairy. That said, you can always add a heatsink on the FPGA yourself. The onboard power supplies are more problematic.

Anyway, unless you really need some FPGA this big (I don't know what you want to do), I'd highly suggest going for a more modest Artix7-35T. Those will dissipate a lot less power, and for those, QMTECH boards are usually adequate. But maybe, just maybe, you're interested in this board not for the "large" FPGA itself, but for all the connectors?
 

Offline djrmTopic starter

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2021, 08:58:02 pm »
Hi SiliconWizard,

Thanks for the detailed answer, it is much appreciated. All points taken onboard.
I can see now why I maybe should have got a mainstream board, I'm learning a lot one way or another.

My main reason for getting this board was larger size and easy arrangement of many expansion pins. I'm not too worried about the speed although I have bought it as an upgrade to another part. I have a heatsink I can fit if I find it is getting hot but so far it is only running cool.

I am hoping to use it for some retro computing simulations. Hopefully with HDMI output and using the ddr3 ram for a framebuffer.
Kind regards, David.

 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2021, 10:38:05 pm »
If you're only running modest designs on it at relatively low frequencies, I don't think you'd really have much to worry about.
I was warning you because people buying a board with a XC7/100T or 200T would often expect to be able to use them at their "full potential", and for this, those boards will likely not cut it.
Retro computing stuff usually does not take that many FPGA resources. The benefit of a 100T or 200T would be the large internal block RAM that you can use as general purpose RAM, but in terms of LUTs, I doubt you'll get anywhere close to even 50%?
 

Offline ebclr

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2021, 11:51:43 am »
It's not that hard to add a heat sink if necessary
 

Offline asmi

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2021, 01:35:32 pm »
It's not that hard to add a heat sink if necessary
It's not, but you've got to know that you have to do it, because unlike CPUs, FPGAs don't have built-in thermal protection and will happily fry themselves before user realized what's going on.

Offline dolbeau

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2021, 02:26:44 pm »
I have one of those; makes for an excellent Litex dev board - cheap and plenty of space in the FPGA.

I just added a micro-sd card pmod for the Linux boot/root.

I did not have issue with the memory or Ethernet (I run Ethernet on a 100 Mbps switch, as the SoC was a bit slow to keep up with a full 1 Gbps link), and even successfully used the HDMI port  (but only tried 800x600 and maybe 1024x768).

It also worked fine with Dolu1990's USB Pmod.

I just wish they had a version with more memory. 256 MiB is short for a quad-core SoC.
 

Offline djrmTopic starter

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2021, 02:41:27 pm »
Thanks for the heads up regarding Litex, I'm very interested to see a nice set or ready made general purpose ip for this and other boards too. I shall try LItex when I think of an application for it, maybe make it into a nice vintage style graphics terminal.
One of the reasons for switching from my previous board was because I could not connect anything to its USB pins, I did manage to get a serial USB IP working but host is what I really wanted so I'll be looking into the USB pmod with interest too.
Kind regards, David.
 

Offline dolbeau

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2021, 04:33:20 pm »
Thanks for the heads up regarding Litex, I'm very interested to see a nice set or ready made general purpose ip for this and other boards too.

With linux-on-litex-vexriscv, you should be able to get a working Linux (using Busybox) for a SMP RV32 SoC using the VexRiscv cores fairly quickly, including support for Ethernet, micro-sd (standard Pmod can be used, as there's no micro-sd in the Qmtech Wukong), and the onboard DDR3. However, no keyboard or mouse by default - I created a prototype PS/2 controller for a PS/2 Pmod (along with a linux driver), but I gave up on it when I got the USB Pmod. However if you want one of those you'll need to manufacture yourself, it's not in production that I know of...

Also beware while you can run X11 in there (and even Doom!), it's a dumb framebuffer so not very fast. Though for a terminal emulator it would probably be fine (but so would be much cheaper/easier solutions like a Pi...)
 

Offline djrmTopic starter

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2021, 04:58:56 pm »
Also beware while you can run X11 in there (and even Doom!), it's a dumb framebuffer so not very fast. Though for a terminal emulator it would probably be fine (but so would be much cheaper/easier solutions like a Pi...)

I'm not looking for high speed, as you say there are much easier ways to achieve that. I have some diy pmod type interfaces including PS/2 keyboard and MIcroSD so it should be straightforward (he said!) I haven't studied the USB yet. I did see a USB phy on ebay a while back (microchip USB3300), perhaps it would help to keep the wiring simple.

I'll have a go at installing the Litex toolchain shortly.
Kind regards, David.
 

Offline djrmTopic starter

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2021, 09:52:12 pm »
Anyone with a board like this may be interested in these protective top and bottom boards.
They are laser cut from 3mm acrylic.
The openSCAD source includes 3D and 2D representations.
I exported the 2D as DXF and then into Corel laser to cut them.
The picture shows one of the paper templates I cut for checking the fit.
There is a hole for a heatsink, the rubber feet stock to the bottom of the board will need to be removed.
hth David.
* WukongBaseboard-scad.txt (2.64 kB - downloaded 253 times.)
 

Offline djrmTopic starter

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2021, 08:53:12 pm »
I have one of those; makes for an excellent Litex dev board - cheap and plenty of space in the FPGA.

I have found that the default Litex configuration does not work without changing the pin settings in boards/platforms/qmtech_wukong.py to suit the later version 1.0 board I have.
In particular the clock and leds need changing, don't know how to enable ethernet and video console yet...
Otherwise it seems to have just worked strait out of the box.
Kind regards David.
 

Offline djrmTopic starter

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2021, 09:50:40 pm »
One more thing, unlike the earlier version of the board the V1.0 has a micro SD card socket.
I only noticed this difference today, none of the examples mention it and its hidden under the board.
I'm looking at how to amend the platform definition to include this.
hth David.
 

Offline dolbeau

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2021, 06:38:27 am »
One more thing, unlike the earlier version of the board the V1.0 has a micro SD card socket.
I only noticed this difference today, none of the examples mention it and its hidden under the board.
I'm looking at how to amend the platform definition to include this.

Weird, mine definitely hasn't got anything underneath, yet checking on AliExpress the pictures now have one.

It seems the name has been kept but the design has changed from what is in this repository (100T only, the one I have) and this repository (100T or 200T, and the files are called V02...).

If there's enough commonality you might create a variant of the previous board in Litex-Boards, but if some pins were reassigned you might be better off with a new platform.
 

Offline djrmTopic starter

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2021, 09:42:30 pm »
If there's enough commonality you might create a variant of the previous board in Litex-Boards, but if some pins were reassigned you might be better off with a new platform.

The board is mostly the same but I think a build switch or new platform and target will be the cleanest option, having said that I've simply edited the existing files to get started.

Could you explain how the ps/2 keyboard is enabled for the hdmi console please? there are only two examples I can find with ps/2 keyboards and no obvious way to enable it. any pointers gratefully received. I seem to have hdmi ethernet tftp and sdcard working but have not managed to build anything to test them with yet.

I have updated my Wukong readme.md with the small changes I have made to build LItex for this board..

Kind regards, David.
 

Offline dolbeau

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2021, 07:43:36 am »
Could you explain how the ps/2 keyboard is enabled for the hdmi console please? there are only two examples I can find with ps/2 keyboards and no obvious way to enable it. any pointers gratefully received. I seem to have hdmi ethernet tftp and sdcard working but have not managed to build anything to test them with yet.

Do you mean in the gateware or in the Linux buildroot distribution ?

For the gateware, Litex does not have a PS/2 controller - or in fact any 'standard' way of enabling a keyboard except the USB Host.

For buildroot (if you have found a way of enabling a keyboard in the gateware), you need first to enable the devices in the kernel configuration (e.g.
Code: [Select]
CONFIG_INPUT_EVDEV, CONFIG_INPUT_MOUSEDEV, CONFIG_KEYBOARD_ATKBD, ...), and then to switch the console from the serial port to the framebuffer (e.g. remove
Code: [Select]
console=liteuart and add
Code: [Select]
fbcon=map:0 to the liunx options)
 

Offline djrmTopic starter

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2021, 09:12:22 am »
For the gateware, Litex does not have a PS/2 controller - or in fact any 'standard' way of enabling a keyboard except the USB Host.

Ah, sorry I misunderstood, I see from your earlier post you are not using a PS/2 keyboard. Time to get soldering up a USB pmod.
I had assumed that the video console would have a seperate keyboard, it seems no.

Thanks, David.
 

Offline dolbeau

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2021, 09:21:49 am »
Ah, sorry I misunderstood, I see from your earlier post you are not using a PS/2 keyboard.

I have a draft PS/2 controller and the associated linux driver, but it's very rough.
It still might be quicker/cheaper than building a USB Pmod.

I'm planning to try it with a mouse as well (using a splitter cable), but I haven't had the time yet.
 

Offline djrmTopic starter

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2021, 09:50:05 am »
I have a draft PS/2 controller and the associated linux driver, but it's very rough.
It still might be quicker/cheaper than building a USB Pmod.
Very interesting, That is just what I was looking for.

I have a working PS/2 keyboard on my Petalinux Zynq board based on this project. http://www.deater.net/weave/vmwprod/hardware/pi-ps2/ There is a matching linux device driver.
D
 

Offline djrmTopic starter

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Re: Qmtech Artix 7 Wukong board
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2021, 10:34:29 am »
I have a draft PS/2 controller and the associated linux driver, but it's very rough.
Very interesting, That is just what I was looking for.

small progress applying the changes. I've edited the board, platform, and dts files but cant figure out where to put the host and wrapper files and where and how to apply the patch.
What directory does the patch need to be applied in? Where do the new files need to be copied to?

tia, David.
 


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