Quick question on Quartus support

[SpacedCowboy]

I'm playing with the FT601 from FTDI, and there's a 'demo' FPGA bitstream available for the Xilinx SP601 board or the Altera Cyclone V GX board. I don't have either of those two boards, but I'd like to start from a 'known good' system and evolve it, rather than trying to port everything at the start to the target FPGA (Efinix, in this case).

SP601's are rarer than hen's teeth, but Digikey have the Altera board still in stock, so I was planning on buying one. Not really being familiar with Altera, I just wanted to confirm that the free version of the Quartus-II software (which is what FTDI used) would work with this board, if anyone knows ?

Looking in the PDF it would appear so (it says it supports 5CGXC5) but the actual chip is slightly different (5CGXFC5C6F27C7N) and I prefer to ask the question that makes me look stupid, rather than buy the system and find out later there's some naming convention I'm unaware of

Next question: assuming this goes well (and I really only need the bitstream programmer for the initial 'does this work' phase) I'm presumably better off using the 'Quartus Prime Lite' over 'Quartus II' for any preliminary work before I spin a board and start porting things to Efinix ? Are there any down-sides to using the newer software, or is it a case of 'newer = better' ?
 
Cheers

[BrianHG]

I'm playing with the FT601 from FTDI, and there's a 'demo' FPGA bitstream available for the Xilinx SP601 board or the Altera Cyclone V GX board. I don't have either of those two boards, but I'd like to start from a 'known good' system and evolve it, rather than trying to port everything at the start to the target FPGA (Efinix, in this case).

SP601's are rarer than hen's teeth, but Digikey have the Altera board still in stock, so I was planning on buying one. Not really being familiar with Altera, I just wanted to confirm that the free version of the Quartus-II software (which is what FTDI used) would work with this board, if anyone knows ?

Looking in the PDF it would appear so (it says it supports 5CGXC5) but the actual chip is slightly different (5CGXFC5C6F27C7N) and I prefer to ask the question that makes me look stupid, rather than buy the system and find out later there's some naming convention I'm unaware of

Next question: assuming this goes well (and I really only need the bitstream programmer for the initial 'does this work' phase) I'm presumably better off using the 'Quartus Prime Lite' over 'Quartus II' for any preliminary work before I spin a board and start porting things to Efinix ? Are there any down-sides to using the newer software, or is it a case of 'newer = better' ?
 
Cheers

In you linked doc, Quartus 13.x is very old for a cyclone V devices.  You should be looking into Quartus 15.0...17.0 if you want to keep on using the old style interface or you are following old instructional tutorials.  Quartus Prime 20.x/21.x are newer with a slightly newer interface meaning once you played long enough with 15.0, upgrading will just give your a few minor inconveniences until you get used to the minor menu and interface changes.

The variation in part number '5CGXFC5C6F27C7N', namely the 'F27C7N' defines the pin count / package type and speed grade.  The chip you have chosen is fairly large and powerful with 3.125GBs LVDS transceivers.  Download data sheet here to see what you are getting:
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/intel/5CGXFC5C6F27C7N/3880783?s=N4IgTCBcDaIKwGEDiANAYgxA2NYDsCeAciALoC%2BQA

However, because of this FPGA's LVDS transceivers, you need to verify that you can use the free Quartus, or, the development board you are receiving provides a Quartus key to access the Cyclone V GX series.

Check your Cyclone V board, it may already have a USB programmer in it.  Note that Altera seems to use FTDI for some of their programmers.

[SpacedCowboy]

Thanks Brian

In you linked doc, Quartus 13.x is very old for a cyclone V devices.  You should be looking into Quartus 15.0...17.0 if you want to keep on using the old style interface or you are following old instructional tutorials. 

Huh - maybe my google-fu sucks. When I searched on Intel's site, I got ]here (link is weird because it ends in a ]) and it seems to show the latest free version being 13.1. I didn't realize there were later versions - I'll go try and find them.

There's no real tutorial from FTDI on the FPGA side, though they do provide some documentation of how things work, and sample RTL alongside the bitstream - definitely not a hand-held tutorial though. I only get to choose from those two boards (ok, there's a vertex-6 one as well) unless I want to reconfigure the project, which moves away from "known-good start".

Really, then, it's a matter of "will the later version of Quartus open the earlier version's project" - in which case I might as well learn the new interface as spend time learning an older one - in fact, the tutorial for the board I found [after this initial question] on Intel's site uses Quartus Prime Lite

Quartus Prime 20.x/21.x are newer with a slightly newer interface meaning once you played long enough with 15.0, upgrading will just give your a few minor inconveniences until you get used to the minor menu and interface changes.

Cool. Seems like I could install the old one (even if just to start from parity), use the programmer to install their bitstream, and then see how I could evolve the project using the newer Quartus.

The variation in part number '5CGXFC5C6F27C7N', namely the 'F27C7N' defines the pin count / package type and speed grade.  The chip you have chosen is fairly large and powerful with 3.125GBs LVDS transceivers.  Download data sheet here to see what you are getting:
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/intel/5CGXFC5C6F27C7N/3880783?s=N4IgTCBcDaIKwGEDiANAYgxA2NYDsCeAciALoC%2BQA

However, because of this FPGA's LVDS transceivers, you need to verify that you can use the free Quartus, or, the development board you are receiving provides a Quartus key to access the Cyclone V GX series.

Check your Cyclone V board, it may already have a USB programmer in it.  Note that Altera seems to use FTDI for some of their programmers.

Good to know. The kit is from Terasic and the contents don't indicate any licensing requirements (there's nothing about a license in 'Kit Contents'). It does have the USB-blaster on-board, which is nice.

The Altera/Intel FPGA is significantly more powerful than the one I'll be targeting, but I've already checked that I can synthesize the FTDI design on the Efinix chip (even C3-grade) and get it past the 100MHz clock requirement (the click-to-synthesize option gives me ~127MHz, and the design can be made significantly simpler).

It's as cheap / cheaper *and* faster to just buy the Altera board over designing/manufacturing one with the Efinix chip on it. If everything goes to plan, I'll have to do that eventually, but there's a lot of software as well as FPGA logic to write before then, so I know I keep harping on about starting off from a known-good position, but in this case it seems well worth it

Thanks again Off to Digikey to order a board...

[BrianHG]

Terasic boards come with a developer license if they need it.
Yes, the FPGA you have chosen is large tier for the entry level FPGAs.
There are 2-3 sizes above and much smaller.

[BrianHG]

New download link, Quartus Prime Lite Web Edition:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/software-kit/684216/intel-quartus-prime-lite-edition-design-software-version-21-1-for-windows.html

Note that I use 20.1 as that version still uses Modelsim (HDL Logic simulator) while version 21.1 uses Questa for simulation.  I have not used Questa and don't know how it works.  Modelsim is a standard used by now Lattice and Xilinx, so I personally feel it is a better choice to learn from as well as the Terasic board probably runs with Quartus 15 which also uses Modelsim.

Note that 15.0 is missing from Intel's new download center as they go from v13 (it's there but hidden), then skip to v17, but it probably comes on the Terasic CD.

13.1 is too early a version for Cyclone V as some important features were not yet ready and it is kept alive because it is the last Quartus to support the old Cyclone II and III, and old MAX7000/MAX3000 PLDs.

[BrianHG]

This board is also good:
https://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=218&No=998#contents

You get DDR3 ram instead of DDR2.  (400MHz using my controller, with 500MHz overclockable)

Though, it's 50kgate instead of 77kgate.
High speed flash ADC instead of LVDS.