Substitute for lattice ispvm tool (because of missing Win10 USB Drivers )

[Martin72]

Hi,

Still we use older lattice PLDs we programmed them with at last the IVSPM 18.1 software.
This works until windows 7, using the USB programming-adaptor HW-USBN-2A.
Now our systems are running with win10 only and the software won´t work with it. 
Or with very "dirty tricks" and then only partly.
Question :
Is there a win10 compatible programming tool from lattice avaible, which can program the older PLDs and support the USB adaptor ?

Thanks in advance,

Martin

[Mario87]

Can you not run it on Windows 7 in a Virtual Machine?

[khs]

For my W10 laptop I use the LCMXO2-7000HE-B-EVN board, DK# 220-2625-ND with some minor modification to disconnect the onboard XO2-7000HE (pin 136/137). The VCC pin is not connected, so there is no power detect.
 
It works fine with XO2/XP2 devices. I just connected a quite old LC4256 and it was displayed in the Device List of the ispVM System V 18.1. So it should work too..

I/O port setup:
- Cable Type: USB2
- Port Setting: FTUSB-0

[Martin72]

Can you not run it on Windows 7 in a Virtual Machine?

I´m afraid not, because of the high restrictions concerning the IT enviroment in our company. 
Can´t believe that there is no "clean" solution directly from lattice...
Plus the problem we use very old (LSPI1016 for example) and newer PLDs - And due to several contracts we must make sure that customers can buy spareparts even up to 20yrs or longer after developement.
So we got "tons" of the older PLDs on stock and programming them was never a problem - until win10 came up to our systems here.
The former "dirty solution" mentioned in the first post was a win10 system in test mode to get the usb driver installed god knows where our admin have found them.
When running, programming the pld was a pain in the arse because in every step it loose the drivers, you must permanently connect and disconnect the programmer.
So it´s not a general solution because of the testmode and the described problems.

@khs:
Must read your post tomorrow again, when I´m more awake than now...

[pigrew]

You may want to look into using the DataMan/ELNEC line of programmers.

I use them mostly with EEPROMs, but their compatible parts list includes the older Lattice parts (and they list Windows 10 as supported).

[Someone]

Can you not run it on Windows 7 in a Virtual Machine?

I´m afraid not, because of the high restrictions concerning the IT enviroment in our company. 

The obnoxious answer for that situation:
since you (IT) have final say over the software environment, it is your job to find me a solution
CC'd to your management chain etc, explaining that you cannot work on XXX task/project until this blocker is resolved

[Martin72]

Yes, it should be their job but that won´t help me/us in the moment.
Plus I´m curious in general concerning the programming software on newer systems - Won´t believe that lattice gives a sh**t about it.
So I´ve found the "Diamond" software on their page - It seems you can program the older plds with it too.
Download.....Buzzzz...No download without a account.
OK, creating an account, download it.
Install it, run it.
Buzzzz....No license.
OK, log in again, ah...license options...
Choosing free license....Buzzz...
Your account is "too fresh", try again in the next days...
OK, I will contact them, asking the same question as here.
Click on "contact us"....Buzzzz...
Your account is too fresh to....WTF?!

[joeqsmith]

Similar problem having to support old part.  The last time I had used Lattice PDLs, was in 2016.  I thought I was using 10 but maybe not.   I was using their 2B programming cable with the ispLEVER Classic software.   I can check if you like next week if it still runs on 10. 

[joeqsmith]

Looking at my system, the license file's MAC was for my older PC which was Windows 7 based.   Checking old PC and sure enough.   I attempted to install the software on my Windows 10 PC.  Seemed to install fine but the driver suggests 7 only. 

Plugging in the adapter, the old Unknown Device shows up.   Looking at the programming adapter I have, it is also the 2A, not B as I previously wrote. 

Went to Lattice the site and of course, they no longer have a record of my account so no license.  Looking at the old license (which was perpetual), it doesn't contain a SN which is required for me to register.  lol   I could move the old Ethernet card to the new PC but it's not going to get me around the driver problem.   

I had not used these tools for some time and had decommission the old PC and had removed the Lattice tools so I reinstalled them along with my original license file.   The drivers now work as expected but the perpetual license has expired.   

Have you tried to contact them?  If so, what was their response? 

[Martin72]

Hi,

After this:

Click on "contact us"....Buzzzz...
Your account is too fresh to....WTF?!

I didn´t try it again, want to do this after the Easter days...

Edit : Try it again, must have to wait...

[joeqsmith]

Ok. I'll contact them next week and let you know what I find out.   

[Martin72]

It seems there is a standalone only programming software avaible, but when you following the link, it shows only some documents and a kind of "servicepack", not the programmer software itself...

Filling out the contact formular is pain in the arse, giving it up for today..

Martin

[khs]

I assume all USB Lattice programmers use the FTDI chip.

So I would just try to search for new drivers via W10 update.

(My) W10 uses the same driver as W7: usbccgp.sys

Here the data from the "USB Device Tree Viewer" (via W7):


   =========================== USB Port3 ===========================

Connection Status        : Device is connected
Port Chain               : 2-3

      ======================== USB Device ========================

        +++++++++++++++++ Device Information ++++++++++++++++++
Device Description       : USB-Verbundgerät
Device ID                : USB\VID_0403&PID_6010\5&30AC598D&0&3
Driver KeyName           : {36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000}\0076 (GUID_DEVCLASS_USB)
Driver                   : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\usbccgp.sys (Version: 6.1.7601.24138  Date: 2018-05-02)
Legacy BusType           : PNPBus
Class                    : USB
Service                  : usbccgp
Enumerator               : USB
Location Info            : Port_#0003.Hub_#0004
Location IDs             : PCIROOT(0)#PCI(1302)#USBROOT(0)#USB(3)
Container ID             : {2eca6b65-31fc-11e6-88da-50e549c82a02}
Manufacturer Info        : (Standard-USB-Hostcontroller)
Capabilities             : Removable, SurpriseRemovalOK
Address                  : 3
Problem Code             : 0
Power State              : D0 (supported: D0, D2, D3, wake from D0, wake from D2)
 Child Device 1          : USB Serial Converter A
  Device ID              : USB\VID_0403&PID_6010&MI_00\6&38B7DA42&0&0000
  Class                  : USB
 Child Device 2          : USB Serial Converter B
  Device ID              : USB\VID_0403&PID_6010&MI_01\6&38B7DA42&0&0001
  Class                  : USB
   Child Device 1        : USB Serial Port
    Device ID            : FTDIBUS\VID_0403+PID_6010+5&30AC598D&0&3&2\0000
    Class                : Ports
    COM-Port             : COM14 (\Device\VCP0)

        ---------------- Connection Information ---------------
Connection Index         : 0x03
Connection Status        : 0x01 (DeviceConnected)
Current Config Value     : 0x01
Device Address           : 0x02
Is Hub                   : 0x00 (no)
Number Of Open Pipes     : 0x04 (4)
Device Bus Speed         : 0x02 (High-Speed)
Pipe0ScheduleOffset      : 0x00 (0)
Pipe1ScheduleOffset      : 0x00 (0)
Pipe2ScheduleOffset      : 0x00 (0)
Pipe3ScheduleOffset      : 0x00 (0)

        ------------------ Device Descriptor ------------------
bLength                  : 0x12 (18 bytes)
bDescriptorType          : 0x01 (Device Descriptor)
bcdUSB                   : 0x200 (USB Version 2.00)
bDeviceClass             : 0x00 (defined by the interface descriptors)
bDeviceSubClass          : 0x00
bDeviceProtocol          : 0x00
bMaxPacketSize0          : 0x40 (64 bytes)
idVendor                 : 0x0403 (Future Technology Devices International Limited)
idProduct                : 0x6010
bcdDevice                : 0x700
iManufacturer            : 0x01
 Language 0x0409         : "Lattice"
iProduct                 : 0x02
 Language 0x0409         : "Lattice FTUSB Interface Cable"
iSerialNumber            : 0x00
bNumConfigurations       : 0x01

        -------------- Configuration Descriptor ---------------
bLength                  : 0x09 (9 bytes)
bDescriptorType          : 0x02 (Configuration Descriptor)
wTotalLength             : 0x0037 (55 bytes)
bNumInterfaces           : 0x02
bConfigurationValue      : 0x01
iConfiguration           : 0x00
bmAttributes             : 0x80 (Bus Powered)
MaxPower                 : 0xFA (500 mA)

        ---------------- Interface Descriptor -----------------
bLength                  : 0x09 (9 bytes)
bDescriptorType          : 0x04 (Interface Descriptor)
bInterfaceNumber         : 0x00
bAlternateSetting        : 0x00
bNumEndpoints            : 0x02
bInterfaceClass          : 0xFF (Vendor Specific)
bInterfaceSubClass       : 0xFF
bInterfaceProtocol       : 0xFF
iInterface               : 0x02
 Language 0x0409         : "Lattice FTUSB Interface Cable"

        ----------------- Endpoint Descriptor -----------------
bLength                  : 0x07 (7 bytes)
bDescriptorType          : 0x05 (Endpoint Descriptor)
bEndpointAddress         : 0x81 (Direction=IN  EndpointID=1)
bmAttributes             : 0x02 (TransferType=Bulk)
wMaxPacketSize           : 0x200 (max 512 bytes)
bInterval                : 0x00 (never NAKs)

        ----------------- Endpoint Descriptor -----------------
bLength                  : 0x07 (7 bytes)
bDescriptorType          : 0x05 (Endpoint Descriptor)
bEndpointAddress         : 0x02 (Direction=OUT  EndpointID=2)
bmAttributes             : 0x02 (TransferType=Bulk)
wMaxPacketSize           : 0x200 (max 512 bytes)
bInterval                : 0x00 (never NAKs)

        ---------------- Interface Descriptor -----------------
bLength                  : 0x09 (9 bytes)
bDescriptorType          : 0x04 (Interface Descriptor)
bInterfaceNumber         : 0x01
bAlternateSetting        : 0x00
bNumEndpoints            : 0x02
bInterfaceClass          : 0xFF (Vendor Specific)
bInterfaceSubClass       : 0xFF
bInterfaceProtocol       : 0xFF
iInterface               : 0x02
 Language 0x0409         : "Lattice FTUSB Interface Cable"

        ----------------- Endpoint Descriptor -----------------
bLength                  : 0x07 (7 bytes)
bDescriptorType          : 0x05 (Endpoint Descriptor)
bEndpointAddress         : 0x83 (Direction=IN  EndpointID=3)
bmAttributes             : 0x02 (TransferType=Bulk)
wMaxPacketSize           : 0x200 (max 512 bytes)
bInterval                : 0x00 (never NAKs)

        ----------------- Endpoint Descriptor -----------------
bLength                  : 0x07 (7 bytes)
bDescriptorType          : 0x05 (Endpoint Descriptor)
bEndpointAddress         : 0x04 (Direction=OUT  EndpointID=4)
bmAttributes             : 0x02 (TransferType=Bulk)
wMaxPacketSize           : 0x200 (max 512 bytes)
bInterval                : 0x00 (never NAKs)

[Martin72]

I assume all USB Lattice programmers use the FTDI chip.

Today I´ve open up mine on work - It doesn´t got an FTDI chip, it got one from cyrrus logic.
But it was no problem to find a driver package for it, even for win10 32/64 bit.
On work, my notebook "say" unkown usb component when I plug in the programming adaptor.
Can´t install the drivers as I didn´t got admin rights on it.
Took the adaptor and the drivers to home, plug in the adaptor - nothing happens, no message about an unknown component...
My notebook is on win 10 test mode, maybe this is the reason.
Nevertheless, tomorrow one of our admins are at work, so I can ask him for installing the drivers and see what happens.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Buy a cheap Win7 laptop, call it "test equipment" and don't tell the IT people 

[Martin72]

 

But let me tell you something, we got indeed a stationary win7 pc for programming chips who aren´t in-circuit programmable ones.
The files ( for eprom, eeprom, GALs, µCs and so on) are on the network, so the pc must be connected on the network also.
When you turning on the pc you can go and get some coffee, meeting with other colleagues, testing things...
He´s trying to get some updates, "find" updates, try to install them, find out the install is failed, remove the updates..
And after say 4 hours you can use him...
And this is going after every powering on..
The whole situation what programming concerns is actual a pain in the arse.
And it is hilarious that I am going to search for solutions in my PRIVATE time instead of kicking our IT in their bu....Ah, forget it.

Martin

[mikeselectricstuff]

But let me tell you something, we got indeed a stationary win7 pc for programming chips who aren´t in-circuit programmable ones.
The files ( for eprom, eeprom, GALs, µCs and so on) are on the network, so the pc must be connected on the network also.

USB Stick?

[Martin72]

...Are not allowed to use...

[nctnico]

...Are not allowed to use...

I guess they disconnected the mice and keyboards as well? How can you work in such an evironment? It is like putting thick foam rubber padding on a hammer. Maybe it is better to just stop supporting the older products; just say that the IT department's rules get in the way.

I used to work for a company that handled secured projects but the IT department over there was very cooperative and never got in the way of getting work done.

[Someone]

...Are not allowed to use...

I guess they disconnected the mice and keyboards as well? How can you work in such an evironment? It is like putting thick foam rubber padding on a hammer. Maybe it is better to just stop supporting the older products; just say that the IT department's rules get in the way.

I used to work for a company that handled secured projects but the IT department over there was very cooperative and never got in the way of getting work done.

Strawman much? Like USB devices are all equal? The rules are "obvious" just like workplaces that blanket banned the use of knives for any purpose. 99% of people are using them for the wrong reasons, so its easier to ban them outright rather than try and capture the complex right/wrong uses. Many corporations require full time live virus scanning on "all" computers. Which brings old fashioned file based compiling to a crawl, but it makes sense for the vast majority of people.

I've worked in many of those roles that sit outside the nonsense rules, so you end up with a good relationship to the people enforcing the rules who grant you exceptions (entire lab/workshop/software locations/staff with blanket exemptions), or get fed up and work somewhere else.

[Martin72]

Nevertheless, tomorrow one of our admins are at work, so I can ask him for installing the drivers and see what happens.

Nothing.
After several attempts he gave up...
My suggestion to activate the win 10 test mode he won´t or couldn´t use it for some reasons I´ve forgotten.

Meanwhile I´ve recognized the problem isn´t correctly described in my first post, so here is the correction:

Lattice ispvm 18.1 is intstalled on a notebook which got win10 as OS.
It runs but won´t detect the usb-programmer HW-USBN-2A because of missing drivers(thats what the failure message "says").
On my former notebook with win7 there was never a problem like this, so I guess the inbuild driver won´t function on win10.
The HW-USBN-2A adaptor doesn´t got the common ftdi chip, instead it got one from cyrus logic.
Found win10 driver for it, but they couldn´t get installed.

Martin

[laugensalm]

This starts to become a FSP..(frequently seen problem).
My advice for long term viability:
- Get a linux box set up
- If you're dependent on Windows SW, use a VM image
- Most of the lattice SW can be set up in a Docker container with an arbitrary MAC, no need to transfer a network card
- Get a genuine FTDI adapter that is known to run with Windows 10, you will not even have to go through a driver signing process, just use the blank 0x6010 PID
- You might also get naggy on a Lattice FAE (better skip incompetent online support)

The licensing issues with Lattice are annoying indeed, it has caused a few niche customers to switch back to Xilinx, obviously Lattice Semi didn't care. Others again don't care if their auxiliary tools violate licence protection, as keeping the system running is more important.

[joeqsmith]

I had send them an email on the following Monday.  After two weeks they have yet to respond. 

[m k]

Nevertheless, tomorrow one of our admins are at work, so I can ask him for installing the drivers and see what happens.

Nothing.
After several attempts he gave up...
My suggestion to activate the win 10 test mode he won´t or couldn´t use it for some reasons I´ve forgotten.

Meanwhile I´ve recognized the problem isn´t correctly described in my first post, so here is the correction:

Lattice ispvm 18.1 is intstalled on a notebook which got win10 as OS.
It runs but won´t detect the usb-programmer HW-USBN-2A because of missing drivers(thats what the failure message "says").
On my former notebook with win7 there was never a problem like this, so I guess the inbuild driver won´t function on win10.
The HW-USBN-2A adaptor doesn´t got the common ftdi chip, instead it got one from cyrus logic.
Found win10 driver for it, but they couldn´t get installed.

Martin

Some old drivers can't connect to virtual COM ports higher than 8.

You may also need to uninstall some wrong drivers before right ones start functioning.

Raw deal.
Become a Windows Driver Developer and grant Lattice driver a license.
(no idea what that means in practice)

[Martin72]

Hi,

- Get a linux box set up
- If you're dependent on Windows SW, use a VM image

Can´t imagine this could be the solution at work, for private usage no problem.

You may also need to uninstall some wrong drivers before right ones start functioning.

Interesting point.
"Unfortunately" this week I´m not at work, couldn´t tell it the admin.
Tried to "simulate" it here, but there are no links for downloading the 18.1 software.

After two weeks they have yet to respond.

Nevertheless thank you joeqsmith