Author Topic: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??  (Read 10371 times)

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Offline BrianHG

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2022, 03:25:45 am »
Even Lattice's LFE5U & LFE5UM series have all disappeared.  Only around 5 months ago, some of the 12k and 25k gates were available.  Even all the most expensive 85k devices are all gone.

Only the older 3 series exist: https://www.mouser.com/c/semiconductors/programmable-logic-ics/fpga-field-programmable-gate-array/?m=Lattice&number%20of%20logic%20elements=17000%20LE%7C~33000%20LE%7C~92000%20LE&series=LFE3&instock=y
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2022, 05:55:48 pm »
Even Lattice's LFE5U & LFE5UM series have all disappeared.  Only around 5 months ago, some of the 12k and 25k gates were available.  Even all the most expensive 85k devices are all gone.

Only the older 3 series exist: https://www.mouser.com/c/semiconductors/programmable-logic-ics/fpga-field-programmable-gate-array/?m=Lattice&number%20of%20logic%20elements=17000%20LE%7C~33000%20LE%7C~92000%20LE&series=LFE3&instock=y

Look at those prices.
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2022, 06:40:30 pm »
Even Lattice's LFE5U & LFE5UM series have all disappeared.  Only around 5 months ago, some of the 12k and 25k gates were available.  Even all the most expensive 85k devices are all gone.

Only the older 3 series exist: https://www.mouser.com/c/semiconductors/programmable-logic-ics/fpga-field-programmable-gate-array/?m=Lattice&number%20of%20logic%20elements=17000%20LE%7C~33000%20LE%7C~92000%20LE&series=LFE3&instock=y

Look at those prices.
Yes, the 3 series is old and expensive, but there is stock.  The new out of stock 5 series is around 20% the price per LE.

EG: 37$ for the 17kle in my above attached link.
The LFE5U-85, 85kle with 4megabit onboard blockram, is the same price when it was available.
EG: https://www.findchips.com/search/LFE5U-85F-6MG285C
16$ per piece LFE5U-45 was readily available 2 years ago. (That was a Digikey price...)
« Last Edit: June 19, 2022, 06:49:57 pm by BrianHG »
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2022, 07:16:27 pm »
Yes, I actually selected the Lattice ECP5 series both because they met my requirements and because they were still easily available while many others already were not.
But the shortage is only getting worse instead of improving as many of us expected.

This is a complete disaster. And just the tip of the iceberg. The rampant inflation in many countries in the world is getting pretty bad too.
 

Offline NorthGuy

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2022, 09:36:35 pm »
The funniest thing is that Xilinx (now AMD-Xilinx) are sending people junk emails eager to teach them to use "cost-optimized" FPGAs, while it is not going to be possible to buy any reasonably priced FPGAs in any foreseeable future. They're totally delusional.

And not even a hint of apology for the lack of products they promised to keep available for the extended period of time.
 
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Offline gnuarm

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2022, 02:09:32 am »
Edge Electronics has the 4K Gowin part for just $2.62 in the QFP100 package, according to the web page.  That's a huge + for me. 
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Online brucehoult

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2022, 03:47:22 am »
Admittedly I've only ever used Libero v11.9 (for the legacy ProASIC3 parts), but I have simply renewed the 1 year silver license each year without any problems.

Same. And it's the same with the current version of the tools, although the largest PolarFire you can use with the free version is the 100T and ... it just makes maintaining a design difficult because you do have to renew the license every year.

The free silver license works with the "Icicle" board which is PolarFire SoC with MPFS250T-FCVG484EES chip.

From the "User Guide" (https://www.microsemi.com/document-portal/doc_download/1245042-polarfire-soc-fpga-icicle-kit-user-guide):

Quote
2.1 Software Settings
1. Download and install the latest release of Libero® SoC software from the Microsemi website.
2. Generate a free silver license for your software. The Libero SoC installer includes FlashPro5 drivers.
 

Offline betocool

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2022, 01:33:35 am »
Check out QuickLogic FPGA's, they seem to have available chips and dev kits here:

https://www.crowdsupply.com/quicklogic/quickfeather

They have a hard M3 core in them, so they might not be what you're looking for. But pricing and stock seem reasonable. I'm currently working on a De0-nano and an arty-a7, but I was thinking of giving these a try sometime.
 

Offline mon2

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2022, 12:30:08 pm »
To clarify, I have reached out to Efinix and they are willing to generate 90 day license to permit access to their toolchain.

In my own correction, the license does NOT expire after the 90 days or 1 year (if purchasing with a kit). Rather, the license is full access to their website and any licensed IP, updates, etc.

So do reach out to Efinix as per my last post if there is an interest. I have sent PMs to some of the engineers here but perhaps is filed under the don't care bin.
 

Offline chickenHeadKnob

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2022, 01:58:37 am »
Edge Electronics has the 4K Gowin part for just $2.62 in the QFP100 package, according to the web page.  That's a huge + for me.

But zero stock. I also can make a catalog which lists parts I will never get.
 

Offline mon2

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2022, 10:29:04 am »
Is that what Edge or the factory has said? That there is no stock and never will be??

Why not ask them for the details?

This is sourcing class-101.

We ordered a box of tools and devices from Gowin for which Edge had 'zero stock'.

Each of the goods were shipped to us from HK to us direct to Canada to avoid the Trump tax, within a few weeks. You know the one where you in the US have to pay tariffs for goods from China but his 'daughter that he would date' was exempt for her company.

Same comments apply for Efinix. Both devices are flowing if you make the effort to ask them.

 

Offline NorthGuy

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2022, 03:33:35 pm »
They keep mocking us:

"In this webinar, you’ll learn how the Spartan®-7 family delivers processor scalability, any-to-any connectivity, sensor fusion, and custom hardware acceleration—all at a low-cost entry-point."


 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2022, 05:39:18 pm »
That sucks, but what alternative do they have? Or you'd like for them to say "we're sorry guys, nothing to see here, come back later"?

Apart maybe from changing activities and sell cloud services instead? That kind of business doesn't seem to be affected by any kind of shortage... :popcorn:
 

Online asmi

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2022, 05:56:39 pm »
They continue shipping parts. It's just not many are left over for general distributors, which is why they are pretty much impossible to find in stock anywhere. But if you really need them, contact their sales and place an order. For example, right now they are taking orders for AU10/15P in non-InFO packages, which are now in production, so if you want them - go for it, InFO packages are still in pre-prod and apparently there is a waiting list for these parts.

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2022, 07:35:35 pm »
OK, good to know.
 

Offline gnuarm

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2022, 04:49:04 am »
They continue shipping parts. It's just not many are left over for general distributors, which is why they are pretty much impossible to find in stock anywhere. But if you really need them, contact their sales and place an order. For example, right now they are taking orders for AU10/15P in non-InFO packages, which are now in production, so if you want them - go for it, InFO packages are still in pre-prod and apparently there is a waiting list for these parts.

You are replying to someone unnamed, about a device I don't recognize "AU10".  What are these?
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2022, 06:29:48 pm »
They continue shipping parts. It's just not many are left over for general distributors, which is why they are pretty much impossible to find in stock anywhere. But if you really need them, contact their sales and place an order. For example, right now they are taking orders for AU10/15P in non-InFO packages, which are now in production, so if you want them - go for it, InFO packages are still in pre-prod and apparently there is a waiting list for these parts.

You are replying to someone unnamed, about a device I don't recognize "AU10".  What are these?

AFAIK, those are Artix UltraScale+. https://www.xilinx.com/products/silicon-devices/fpga/artix-ultrascale-plus.html
(Not exactly what I would call lower-end FPGAs, but everyone's perspective is different.)
 

Online asmi

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2022, 07:36:40 pm »
AFAIK, those are Artix UltraScale+. https://www.xilinx.com/products/silicon-devices/fpga/artix-ultrascale-plus.html
(Not exactly what I would call lower-end FPGAs, but everyone's perspective is different.)
Yep, but that was just an example, as these are the parts I'm personally interested in.

Offline NorthGuy

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2022, 10:22:49 pm »
That sucks, but what alternative do they have? Or you'd like for them to say "we're sorry guys, nothing to see here, come back later"?

The truth. What are they doing to solve the problem, when (if ever) they expect "low-cost" FPGAs to be back.

They continue shipping parts. It's just not many are left over for general distributors, which is why they are pretty much impossible to find in stock anywhere. But if you really need them, contact their sales and place an order. For example, right now they are taking orders for AU10/15P in non-InFO packages, which are now in production, so if you want them - go for it, InFO packages are still in pre-prod and apparently there is a waiting list for these parts.

I'm sure it's not hard to order samples of the parts which are not yet in production. But how about cost-effective Artixes and Spartans. Even if they're still in production, they're all snatched by big companies. Were you able to get any of these?
 

Online asmi

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2022, 02:44:24 am »
I'm sure it's not hard to order samples of the parts which are not yet in production. But how about cost-effective Artixes and Spartans. Even if they're still in production, they're all snatched by big companies. Were you able to get any of these?
I didn't ask for them because I still have some left - I've bought a bunch just as those whole COVID stuff was getting serious, and so I expected shortages. I did get a few Artixes-100s off Ali just for the heck of it, and they all soldered and worked great (of course I baked them before reflow as who knows how they were stored). Have you tried contacting their sales?

BTW, speaking of shortages, I've noticed that Mouser now has max limits set for some parts - like STM32 chips. Digikey does this even more sneaky - it shows only 10 parts in stock, but in reality it's got more. For example, I've bought 10 pcs of this part a couple of days ago, but "in stock" number never changed and still shows "10".

Also I've finally found a good replacement to TI power parts which I used extensively in the past, but which has become unobtanium for the most part over last couple of years, during which I ran out of most of my stock. Now I use MPS parts and modules, because they sell small batches direct with $5 flat shipping fee and short turnaround time (3-4 days), and keeps seemingly a lot of them in stock by limiting how much parts they sell to a single company, which is why it's perfect for R&D/small batches like I do. For large production batches you have to place an order as usual. And they also have quite a bit of power modules (DC-DC buck with integrated inductor) at quite attractive prices.
 
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Offline NorthGuy

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2022, 02:24:56 pm »
Have you tried contacting their sales?

I did a while ago, but received no response. Apparently, a single tray is not the quantity which is worth responding for them. I certainly can try to buy 10 trays and re-sell the excess. But if that was possible, someone would have done that already.

BTW, speaking of shortages, I've noticed that Mouser now has max limits set for some parts - like STM32 chips. Digikey does this even more sneaky - it shows only 10 parts in stock, but in reality it's got more.

That's a very good idea. People can buy things for prototyping, but re-seller cannot buy. Xilinx could do similar thing as well.

On the other hand, I had to buy 20 CAN drivers recently. TI had good parts, but only 5 per order. So, I bought some weird parts from DigiKey.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2022, 06:06:24 pm »
That sucks, but what alternative do they have? Or you'd like for them to say "we're sorry guys, nothing to see here, come back later"?

The truth. What are they doing to solve the problem, when (if ever) they expect "low-cost" FPGAs to be back.

While I would prefer honesty myself as well, I can understand why they are beating around the bush. If they were plain honest, some of their competitors would likely not be, and then the latter would be likely to attract customers willing to believe there are better options out there. While *you* may not fall for that, many would. A big part of it all is this competition game, and it's neither pretty nor easy to handle. That's why I have a hard time blaming them. It's just all fucked up.

You may want to ask foundries, specifically, what THEY are doing to solve the problem. As they are mostly the bottleneck here.
It's not a picnic for them either though. The production capacity that would be required right now to meet demand might not be required anymore a few years from now, and those are massive investments.
 

Online asmi

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2022, 06:57:00 pm »
It's not a picnic for them either though. The production capacity that would be required right now to meet demand might not be required anymore a few years from now, and those are massive investments.
That's only part of the problem. Another part is - will this increased demand remain in the future to justify these huge investment into expanded production capacity? We're talking about billions of $$$, not many are willing to risk such investments without having some certainty as to getting a return on them. With so much uncertainty, it's hard to predict which way things will go, as there are plenty of agruments both ways. Which is why I suspect more vendors will just try to ride out the storm, hoping to make it to the other side, and we would serve ourselves best to adapt to a current reality. This is hard, and I for one lost a few prospects just because I wasn't able to secure supply of parts they required in the timeframe they had allocated, which of course sucks, but it is what it is, and complaining about it on forums doesn't really help anything.

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2022, 07:04:12 pm »
It's not a picnic for them either though. The production capacity that would be required right now to meet demand might not be required anymore a few years from now, and those are massive investments.
That's only part of the problem. Another part is - will this increased demand remain in the future to justify these huge investment into expanded production capacity? We're talking about billions of $$$, not many are willing to risk such investments without having some certainty as to getting a return on them. (...)

Yep. That's exactly what I meant by "The production capacity that would be required right now to meet demand might not be required anymore a few years from now, and those are massive investments."
=)
 

Online asmi

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Re: where did all the lower end FPGAs go ??
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2022, 07:13:25 pm »
Yep. That's exactly what I meant by "The production capacity that would be required right now to meet demand might not be required anymore a few years from now, and those are massive investments."
=)
Yea, which is why complaining about it doesn't really serve anything, we just have to learn to deal with it, hoping that situation will eventually improve.


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