Author Topic: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck  (Read 1075 times)

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Offline blueskull

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A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« on: September 10, 2019, 06:42:48 am »
Is there a mouse, preferably wireless, that does not double click or random click over years of use?

I just found today my Logitech MX Anywhere 2S developed a random self clicking on middle button that causes quite a havoc (imagine 10+ apps opened simultaneously just because it clicked a few times when I moved over the taskbar).

And of course, Logitech is known for making mice with double clicking, and so far, since my first Logitech mouse, G9, back in 2008, no one has survived more than 2 years of use. I know I can replace the switches, but certain switches are not replaceable (side buttons are flex PCB switches built into the FPCs), and modern wireless mice are harder and harder to open without damaging them.

So far, Razer gave me good switch quality, but I really love the switchable frictionless scroll wheel of Logitech, and unfortunately, they patented it.

As for frictionless scrolling, I've tried touch sensing based scrolling, with MSFT Arc 2, Magic Mouse 2 and ThinkPad X1 Mouse. The first requires 3 fingers for middle click, which is a problem as it's small, and I have fat fingers. The second one doesn't have middle click as all, and Apple "patched" the APIs used by third party apps to emulate middle click. The third one doesn't work in macOS at all.

As a heavy Altium user, I NEED MIDDLE CLICK. Apple's scrolling is different than PC's. PC mice drivers send out fewer scroll signals without step size, while Apple mice drivers send out more scroll signals with step size info, so Apple can implement high res scrolling. Unfortunately, for apps doesn't support this and used raw input (games, VMs, etc.), that means macOS sends out too many scroll events, thus making it way too sensitive. Making things worse is the acceleration, both on tracking and on scrolling.

To make it simple, macOS (with current version of Parallels) will not work with Altium properly on scrolling, so without scrolling, middle click is the only way to move through a large design, thus I absolutely need middle clicking.






TL;DR: I need a mouse with Bluetooth connectivity, three long lasting buttons and preferably switchable frictionless scroll wheel.

Any suggestions?
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2019, 06:45:32 am »
I've experienced the same issue you have. Things tend to work well until a year or so in. Then you get various problems like choppy reception or missing or superfluous clicks.
 

Online BravoV

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2019, 06:48:28 am »
All my mouses have replaceable microswitches, I did it frequently as mostly they're the culprit.

Offline olkipukki

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2019, 08:13:10 am »
Is there a mouse, preferably wireless, that does not double click or random click over years of use?

Not wireless - one of Razer Deathadder 2013 Essential lasted almost 6 years, another still fine, both in use on PC/Mac.
I replaced the broken one with Razer Deathadder Elite recently.

P.S.
I'm not a gamer.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2019, 08:16:09 am »
I'm not a gamer.

Well, I play CSGO, so the left button got trashed pretty quickly.

But this time it's not the left button that crapped out, it's the smaller middle button (not under the wheel, in MX A2S, the middle button is a small spring clip-on-flex push button, which has way less lifetime).
 

Online tautech

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2019, 08:18:59 am »
I've bashed a wired USB Logitech Trackman for years and with some Altium usage too.
If it died tomorrow I'd try one of these:
https://www.logitech.com/en-nz/product/mx-ergo-wireless-trackball-mouse?crid=7

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Offline Rerouter

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2019, 08:22:31 am »
I'm still using the same Microsoft wireless mouse 5000, All I've had to do is unscrew it and clean out the scroll wheel every year or so. the non stick pads are still using there original adhesive with no raised corners after 4 tear downs to do the clean out.

Though it does chew through 2 rechargeable AA's in about 4 weeks of moderate use.

I got it as a combo with a keyboard, the keyboard was rubbish, but the mouse is good.

And its still able to be purchased new.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 08:30:25 am by Rerouter »
 

Offline JustMeHere

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2019, 12:11:19 am »
Use something like a playing card and see if there is any dirt stuck under the buttons.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2019, 01:51:24 am »
Just grab an old fashioned Microsoft PS/2 ball mouse. The one's I've had for many years are still perfectly fine.


 

Offline wraper

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2019, 02:48:35 am »
Dunno process in China but in EU/US with Logitech you can get replacement without ever sending original mouse back. That somewhat makes things better. This way I got two G700 and two G903. They developed double click problem, got replacement sent to me, fixed old one myself. Actually double click issue is strange since they use Omron switches which supposedly should be good.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2019, 03:55:48 am »
I must not click as often or heavily as you.  I have a couple of logitech M310 that are old enough I can't really remember when it they were purchased.  One is definitely nearing four and the other is probably older.  Both are doing fine, and meet my number one requirement, long battery life.  I have had wireless mice that demanded a new battery every other month which is just nasty.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2019, 04:15:59 am »
Sorry for not being to individually respond. I'll just respond here for everyone.

If it died tomorrow I'd try one of these:
https://www.logitech.com/en-nz/product/mx-ergo-wireless-trackball-mouse?crid=7

Imaginably, it won't play CS:GO well.

I'm still using the same Microsoft wireless mouse 5000, All I've had to do is unscrew it and clean out the scroll wheel every year or so. the non stick pads are still using there original adhesive with no raised corners after 4 tear downs to do the clean out.

Not Bluetooth compatible, which means it's a dongle fiesta.

Use something like a playing card and see if there is any dirt stuck under the buttons.

I just ordered some physically similar switches from Digikey and I'll have them all replaced.

Just grab an old fashioned Microsoft PS/2 ball mouse. The one's I've had for many years are still perfectly fine.

So I can clean both the balls and the clit :-DD. Seriously, my computer doesn't even have a PS2 interface.
PS2/USB adapters only work on mice with native USB controller (it's sorta pass through device), not on mice with only real PS2 interface. Besides, not wireless.

Dunno process in China but in EU/US with Logitech you can get replacement without ever sending original mouse back.

Logitech mice are not that bad. They don't break within their rated 1 year warranty period. On average, each mouse I had survived for about 2.5 years.
In most part of China, the minimum legal warranty period is 1 years, while certain provinces (Zhejiang, Guangdong, etc.) have 2 year minimum.
I'm currently in US, and while federal laws require an implied 4 year warranty, the process can be tedious (requiring proof of purchase, requiring shipping back, etc.), so once the one year BesyBuy in-store warranty expires, I consider it written off.

I must not click as often or heavily as you.  I have a couple of logitech M310 that are old enough I can't really remember when it they were purchased.  One is definitely nearing four and the other is probably older.  Both are doing fine, and meet my number one requirement, long battery life.  I have had wireless mice that demanded a new battery every other month which is just nasty.

Again, no Bluetooth.

------------------------------

So far I'm trying to repair it with new switches, and familiarize myself with another Bluetooth mouse before parts arrive.
 

Online tautech

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2019, 04:24:41 am »
If it died tomorrow I'd try one of these:
https://www.logitech.com/en-nz/product/mx-ergo-wireless-trackball-mouse?crid=7

Imaginably, it won't play CS:GO well.
Dunno but have you ever used a Trackman (not Trackball) ?
This style for thumb use:


No mousepad required and only the footprint they take on your bench, knee or wherever you want to use them.
I converted my retired EE buddy to them a year or two back and he's now sold on them.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 04:30:23 am by tautech »
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Offline blueskull

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2019, 04:29:31 am »
Dunno but have you ever used a Trackman (not Trackball) ?
No mousepad required and only the footprint they take on your bench, knee or wherever you want to use them.
I converted my retired EE buddy to them a year or two back and he's now sold on them.

Tempted. I should try one at BestBuy tomorrow.
 

Online tautech

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2019, 04:35:05 am »
Dunno but have you ever used a Trackman (not Trackball) ?
No mousepad required and only the footprint they take on your bench, knee or wherever you want to use them.
I converted my retired EE buddy to them a year or two back and he's now sold on them.

Tempted. I should try one at BestBuy tomorrow.
The Bay of evil has a good few 2nd hand ones for not too bad pricing:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Logitech+trackman&_sacat=0

Like anything Logitech you need their bloated driver package to get the full choice of button assignments.
I assign the scroll wheel press to ALT + LEFT which of course is very quick Back in many programs and browsers.
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Offline blueskull

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2019, 04:43:22 am »
The Bay of evil has a good few 2nd hand ones for not too bad pricing:

Like anything Logitech you need their bloated driver package to get the full choice of button assignments.
I assign the scroll wheel press to ALT + LEFT which of course is very quick Back in many programs and browsers.

I was thinking the MX Ergo. Benefit of a current product is I can walk in a store and test drive it.
Also, ALT is assigned in my system, as SHIFT doesn't work well in Parallels+macOS, so I have to use ALT for horizontal scrolling in Altium.
The third button (and aux button) can both be useful especially in a VM environment where shortcuts are not all available.

Sooner or later I will have to either ditch Altium for KiCAD or ditch macOS for Windows.
 

Online tautech

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2019, 04:59:34 am »
The Bay of evil has a good few 2nd hand ones for not too bad pricing:

Like anything Logitech you need their bloated driver package to get the full choice of button assignments.
I assign the scroll wheel press to ALT + LEFT which of course is very quick Back in many programs and browsers.

I was thinking the MX Ergo. Benefit of a current product is I can walk in a store and test drive it.
Also, ALT is assigned in my system, as SHIFT doesn't work well in Parallels+macOS, so I have to use ALT for horizontal scrolling in Altium.
The third button (and aux button) can both be useful especially in a VM environment where shortcuts are not all available.

Sooner or later I will have to either ditch Altium for KiCAD or ditch macOS for Windows.
Ah OK, the one I linked earlier.

The pic I linked a post or two back of the USB Trackman is the one we use as both the wife and I have preferred them for at least 15 years. Only in the workshop the teflon guides for the ball get grime and gundge from the ball and need to flick the ball out with a pencil and clean the guides each year or so. You can feel the drag on the ball when they need cleaning, otherwise not an ounce of bother with them over all those years.
Not sure I'd like the MX Ergo and that it rocks around where I now prefer a static mouse and one you can really rest your hand on.
If you get MX Ergo be sure to come back with some comments about it.

Windoze 10 Enterprise has been great and not too much different from 8.1 or 7 for that matter.
Take charge and get it set how you want and it's just fine.
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Online tautech

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2019, 05:16:02 am »
Some MX Ergo user comments at the foot of this page from our major NZ PC retailer:
https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/MSELOG3745150/Logitech-MX-Ergo-Advanced-Bluetooth-And-Wireless-T
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Offline Dundarave

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2019, 05:46:20 am »
You might have a look at the Logitech M557:

https://www.logitech.com/en-ca/product/bluetooth-mouse-m557

I've used them with my laptops for 4 years now and have never had an issue with them:  I think they're great and wouldn't use anything else.  I've never understood why anyone puts up with dongled mice when Bluetooth versions are available... it's crazy.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2019, 10:37:23 am »
Just grab an old fashioned Microsoft PS/2 ball mouse. The one's I've had for many years are still perfectly fine.

So I can clean both the balls and the clit :-DD. Seriously, my computer doesn't even have a PS2 interface.
PS2/USB adapters only work on mice with native USB controller (it's sorta pass through device), not on mice with only real PS2 interface. Besides, not wireless.

In all seriousness though, I've used Microsoft mice for decades. Even the cheap ones are decent and really last. I wasn't too fussed on wireless so last time I needed keyboards/mice, I just bought a 5-pack from Dell. These are the mice I use: https://www.dell.com/en-au/work/shop/microsoft-basic-optical-mouse-black-for-business-5-units-per-pack/apd/a5694110/pc-accessories

They get abused but they just seem to keep working. The middle scroll wheel is a click as expected, but it also has a second "sideways right" click.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 10:39:31 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline wraper

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2019, 12:10:22 pm »
Logitech mice are not that bad. They don't break within their rated 1 year warranty period. On average, each mouse I had survived for about 2.5 years.
In most part of China, the minimum legal warranty period is 1 years, while certain provinces (Zhejiang, Guangdong, etc.) have 2 year minimum.
I'm currently in US, and while federal laws require an implied 4 year warranty, the process can be tedious (requiring proof of purchase, requiring shipping back, etc.), so once the one year BesyBuy in-store warranty expires, I consider it written off.
Logitech gaming mouses and many others usually have 2-3 year warranty even in US. Strange that your MX Anywhere 2S has only 1 year while cheaper non gaming product has 3 years https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-mouse-m325-business?crid=7
EDIT: I checked more mouses and it seems only MX series have 1 year warranty. Even <$10 B100 has 3 year warranty.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 12:16:14 pm by wraper »
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2019, 01:32:03 pm »
Mine lasted 2 years, but still, for a premium product that once was $100, that's not acceptable.
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2019, 05:43:52 pm »
Logitech M705. Can't say for sure how long I have had mine but seems like forever. Even batteries last 3 years which is pretty good accomplishment.
 

Offline GregDunn

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2019, 05:57:59 pm »
I have gone through a buttload of wireless mice of several brands on different computers, and they have all been too heavy (batteries + extra junk inside) and full of connectivity issues.  Every couple of years I think I've been too harsh and try another one, but they all irritate me too much to keep them.  The Logi Trackman lasted the longest, but I do a lot of photo editing and freehand work, which is a poor fit for using my thumb.  I always come back to a Logi wired mouse, and the only times they get replaced are when something physically wears out and can't be repaired.  IOW, I haven't found a wireless mouse that doesn't suck.   ;)
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: A wireless mouse that doesn't suck
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2019, 08:02:07 pm »
Mine lasted 2 years, but still, for a premium product that once was $100, that's not acceptable.

Dunno if it's something you'd like but the Kensington Expert Mouse trackballs are pretty great and are still $100. I have one at home and one at the office, both are seriously nearing 15 years of daily use and they still rock.

To clean you just take the ball out and wipe all of the grunge out.

Reprogram them so (if you're right handed) the LMB is the lower left button and the RMB is the upper right, just where your fingers normally rest. Make the upper left your middle mouse button.

Logitech stuff is just crap. I have one of their fancy wireless remotes that is no longer supported. My wife had one of their "solar" wireless keyboards, which use an internal rechargeable 2032-style battery but even with replacing that battery the keyboard stops working.
 


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