Author Topic: MINT taken over by private interests....  (Read 4453 times)

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Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: MINT taken over by private interests....
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2022, 12:54:53 am »
Aren't there any distros left that avoid systemd?
In all honesty i don't understand what the big fuss is about with systemd and why people make a big deal out of it? Am I missing something?
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: MINT taken over by private interests....
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2022, 01:18:42 am »
Aren't there any distros left that avoid systemd?
In all honesty i don't understand what the big fuss is about with systemd and why people make a big deal out of it? Am I missing something?

 ;D
 

Online Ed.Kloonk

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Re: MINT taken over by private interests....
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2022, 02:05:42 am »
 ;D
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: MINT taken over by private interests....
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2022, 05:26:12 am »
  :palm:

:-//
 
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Offline PKTKS

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Re: MINT taken over by private interests....
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2022, 03:46:14 pm »
Aren't there any distros left that avoid systemd?

Already posted this around here..  more than once..
I check them religiously...

Fortunately clever people provide us options. Distros still faithful to *NIX
   
They are all 100% recommended...     
   
   
Aren't there any distros left that avoid systemd?
In all honesty i don't understand what the big fuss is about with systemd and why people make a big deal out of it? Am I missing something?

Because it is no longer *NIX .. it is something complete departure from *NIX
several forums call them POTTERIX and i think it is the best definition...

My hunch, and I post it sometimes.. is when this processor has
been deployed on all PC hardware it will be impossible to install and use
anything besides POTTERIX and partners of MS..

The fuss is this thing being pushed by force into our lives.. bench... etc
2 cents hunch. no rant no hate no nothing..
2 cents BLAH!

Paul
 
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Online JohanH

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Re: MINT taken over by private interests....
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2022, 04:05:17 pm »

Because it is no longer *NIX .. it is something complete departure from *NIX


This was a deliberate decision. Nobody wanted to turn Linux into Unix. It stands on its own feet.

People seem to have romanticized ideas of what Unix was/is. Today there are only a few Unixes left. How compatible are they with original Unix? Even the GNU project's main idea was to move away from Unix (look up what GNU is short for).

The ranting about systemd is a few oldies that can't move on from the 80's to 2020. The world moves on.
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: MINT taken over by private interests....
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2022, 04:14:47 pm »

Because it is no longer *NIX .. it is something complete departure from *NIX


This was a deliberate decision. Nobody wanted to turn Linux into Unix. It stands on its own feet.

People seem to have romanticized ideas of what Unix was/is. Today there are only a few Unixes left. How compatible are they with original Unix? Even the GNU project's main idea was to move away from Unix (look up what GNU is short for).

The ranting about systemd is a few oldies that can't move on from the 80's to 2020. The world moves on.

hmm  don't think so...   

Can talk just about myself by I believe this is the common factor
among widespread use of *NIX...

I ditched my SCO (*NIX)  server circa 93 to deploy a Slackware..
A very happy replacement at the time..

Did that just because it is *NIX like very well written supported..etc.
Bought the CD from PatrckVolk.  .. the folk made money with that..

gradually several AIX and HP-UX  deploys were also replaced... and vanished

Things  evolved nicely because RedHat and Debian were very good at time.
Both changed.. in that sick thing they are today.
they really veered off from what they were..

So .. back to what matters.. reliable trusty hardware and infra-structure..

WHICH IS NOT by no means.. that POTTERIX thing..
and not even thinkable to live w/that MS processor on my house...

Ditched that by 80 .. by 90s.. could pass the 2000 decades fine..
So by 2020s.. we are back to ground zero of dirty cheap tricks...

still alternatives TO *NIX really .. not that thing veered of..
Paul
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: MINT taken over by private interests....
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2022, 06:08:31 pm »
One that I didn't see mentioned is Gentoo, which uses OpenRC, AFAIK anyway - haven't checked it out in quite a while. But it seems to leave the choice to the user - you can either use systemd or OpenRC on Gentoo - so I guess it's still evil.

 
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Offline PKTKS

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Re: MINT taken over by private interests....
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2022, 06:15:12 pm »
One that I didn't see mentioned is Gentoo, which uses OpenRC, AFAIK anyway - haven't checked it out in quite a while. But it seems to leave the choice to the user - you can either use systemd or OpenRC on Gentoo - so I guess it's still evil.

yeahhhh  Gentoo is fine **IF**  you do not have invested time
and effort into other "from ground"  deploy...

I did that along the 2000 quite a lot.. I have my NAS and
a lot of infra struct entirely based on LFS forks..  which
can overtake Gentoo in several aspects..

LFS replaces Gentoo with too many advantages...
https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

The NAS is a busybox deploy free even from udev stuff...

The whole thing boils down in a sustainable predictable way
to deploy and keep things running.. the opposite of the POTTERIX wonderland
where programmers change stuff everyday like workers digging a hole..
then putting sand back... ..  ::)

The *NIX bottom line is that you invest a HUGE AMOUNT OF TIME effort
and resources in your setup infra structure and having the POTTERIX goonies
messing with a decade of effort is just UNPRINTABLE HOT LANGUAGE....  :popcorn:

So *NIX is not "romantic visions modern crappy UIs"

is actually a SUSTAINABLE EFFORT of decades..

no one in perfect mental health will chang that just to modern look  UI
.. or  POTTERIX in parallell modern xyttt

Newbies which have not invested a decade keeping their stuff
have no clue what this is all about...

Money time and effort invested is not romantic...
you see..  I could leverage a 90s SCO into a 93 Slackware perfectly fine..
as I do today...

cause I have not being held hostage of some squizoid OS..
Paul
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 06:26:22 pm by PKTKS »
 

Online Ed.Kloonk

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Re: MINT taken over by private interests....
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2022, 08:26:01 pm »
Aren't there any distros left that avoid systemd?

Already posted this around here..  more than once..
I check them religiously...

Fortunately clever people provide us options. Distros still faithful to *NIX
   
They are all 100% recommended...     

Thanks Paul. Looks like there are a few more than I would have thought.

As much as I hate systemd in principle though, I really hate sudo in practice. Maybe I'm showing my age.
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Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: MINT taken over by private interests....
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2022, 11:46:58 pm »
Because it is no longer *NIX .. it is something complete departure from *NIX
several forums call them POTTERIX and i think it is the best definition...
That's not necessarily a bad thing?
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: MINT taken over by private interests....
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2022, 01:12:08 pm »
Because it is no longer *NIX .. it is something complete departure from *NIX
several forums call them POTTERIX and i think it is the best definition...
That's not necessarily a bad thing?

*************************************************
YES and NO.
*************************************************

YES...
For my 6y old nephew is a bless.. He can power up his doom game
MINT machine and do everything himself  Amazingly fast he
memorized the icons to upgrade linux and play his games..
I am very happy seeing him fussing around...

Obviously when anything just F*** he press the UNCLE PAAAAAAUL button

*************************************************
NO for anything other than a KIOSK or
the  press button machine for a 6y old kid...

Why?... Well ...  I will try to be short ... ..
- Since the real *NIX kernel from version 2.6x  moved the device management
from /proc to /sys (to allow all the crazy USB gizmos attach) things got
weird.. 

Managing devices like network links complex interfaces and disks with
also a  complex file system hierarchy and other critical pieces of a real
infra struct. is not trivial. In particular using

security mechanisms and proper system daemons..

UNIX traditionally always had a 100% proof init logic to handle this...
Decades of professional managed tools for sys admin

The advent os SYSFS (managed by udev) caused 2 things:
- for my 6y old nephew a bless he can just see things popping..and working (like pen wifi..)
- for any other sys admin a total nightmare ...

Setting up a complex network with several attached interfaces and
mounting a dozen file systems became really complex with udev..
the rules are insanely arcane and things can go really adhoc bad..

Necessary to understand that UDEV has been INTEGRATED into systemd
among other several dozens critical tools.. (like DNS resolver, disk tools..etc)

UNLIKE traditional safe and methodic configurable (by sys admin) systemd
became a panacea of a messy bloated stuff pile together.. exposed via  SYSFS

So.. however even though I am very happy to see my 6y nephew happy with his doom
machine.. (which I will just overwrite when he calls UNCLE PAAAAULLL )

I will never ever run such a messy systemd thing on my servers...

*************************************************
Like Android,, ChromeBooks..
it has a niche.. the kiddo loves it..  ^-^

But... Not on my bench.. or any serious machine...  :-+
Paul
« Last Edit: January 18, 2022, 02:38:12 pm by PKTKS »
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: MINT taken over by private interests....
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2022, 09:09:58 pm »
*************************************************
Like Android,, ChromeBooks..
it has a niche.. the kiddo loves it..  ^-^

But... Not on my bench.. or any serious machine...  :-+

Well sure... but here you were talking about MINT to begin with. And I personally wouldn't consider putting MINT on any "serious machine" myself, so... :popcorn:
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: MINT taken over by private interests....
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2022, 05:50:53 am »
None of my Linux machines are "serious".  The laptops and desktop ones all boot up with Tux rolling its eyes like its last herring was laced with crack.

And yet, those are miles more "serious" than the Linux appliances like routers I've looked at.  Their "firmware" looks like the integrator themselves was on crack when they put that shit together.

I don't think 'serious' is a word one can accurately use when talking about computers anymore, unless it refers to money, as in 'this cost serious money'.
 


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