Author Topic: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd  (Read 4076 times)

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Offline PKTKS

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Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« on: October 15, 2021, 09:30:36 am »
Thanks for all those serious folks that can not bear such aberration...

We have a new release of a systemd free Debian...
Thanks!

According to...
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Devuan-4.0-Released

and go here to read absolute awesome comments from serious people...
https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1284496-devuan-4-0-released-as-debian-11-without-systemd/page2

QUOTED

I think the main point is always missed in most discussions.

Systemd is not an Init system, neither its a friednly Open Source alternative for some other OSS tools and solutions. And it had never been such a thing from the start.

1. Systemd is an extreme commercial marketing invasion from the ground up. It's all about aggressive commercial marketing and politics. Not free software for kind home hackers.
2. It had never been planned to be an init, it was planned to become a Complete Operating System under the Linux kernel. Init - was just a clever Entry point.
3. Why? To eat all well-known linux distributions. To get a huge amount of free beta testers.
4. Why next? To build a commercial product for End user devices - for mass market. Gnome going the same way. All this stuff like Wayland, Gnome, Systemd, Firefox to have an independent from Microsoft/Apple - commercial devices with glass screens. Some still call them PC''s.
5. Why else - and mostly this - commercial services on the the data center side. Those who collect and still our data. This is probably the number one systemd mission for now, it is build just to fit those needs.
6. It is being marketed extremely unpleasant, with the whole corporate culture and methods behind. Starting from blog posts, blog texts, crafted comments, supporters and speakers.
7. From the software point of you - it's architecture and usage is really brain-damaged. It is extremely over-engineered, uncomfortable, authoritarian.

So nothing here about free software, computer hobbiests, linux lovers, distros, good new software.
It's a pure corporate killer from the very start, it's about corporate revenue, and all the hate is reasonable.



I am sick of these filthy POTTERIX thing..

thankfully I am not the only one..  :wtf:

Paul
 
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Online Nominal Animal

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2021, 11:40:13 am »
Downloads, development, and more info at the distro home, dev-1.org (will always redirect to https://www.devuan.org/.

The current stable release (as of 2021-10-14) is Devuan Chimaera 4.0.
 
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Online DiTBho

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2021, 02:03:51 pm »
D-Day, celebration day  ;D ;D ;D
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2021, 03:54:51 pm »
Downloads, development, and more info at the distro home, dev-1.org (will always redirect to https://www.devuan.org/.

The current stable release (as of 2021-10-14) is Devuan Chimaera 4.0.

They were also clever and kind enough to ditch PulseAudio...

Which is very much like Wayland a deliberate hack to be used under systemd management..
a total crap for serious use...

The de facto DAW Audio tool is JACK.
Nothing related with PulseAudio.

Good to have back a clean systemV DAW equipped with JACK and pure ALSA.

Thanks these folks  :-+
Paul
 
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Online RoGeorge

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2021, 04:48:59 pm »
Great news!   :-+

Does this means the default Debian distributions from now on will be without systemd?

Offline PKTKS

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2021, 05:48:42 pm »
Great news!   :-+

Does this means the default Debian distributions from now on will be without systemd?

No my friend..   it never was...

Since day one when systemd was forced through everybody lives without an option several ones clever enough debated that countless and very raged times...

Due to the monetized (sponsorhship) aspect of systemd it became clear to be impossible to compete with that kind of financial power..  Behind them there are those corps with the clear aim to monetize not only linux but the whole aspects of privacy and property..

Dvuan is a FORK of DEBIAN because the "leaders" are more or less kin to sponsors..
(Aka everybody knows who loves Linux.)

Same apply to at least all major distros (Except Gentoo and Slackware)..

Each one was forked by people that can realize the nasty tragic show that lies underneath POTTERIX

Using every possible own resources...

Many Thanks these folks!!!
Paul
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 06:21:53 pm by PKTKS »
 

Online RoGeorge

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2021, 06:27:25 pm »
Then why the blogged article says in the title Devuan 4 released "as Debian 11"?
Will it be released with the name Devuan 4, or with the name Debian 11?

Offline PKTKS

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2021, 08:15:36 am »
Then why the blogged article says in the title Devuan 4 released "as Debian 11"?

Obviously written by a non-native English speaker.  It should have been "Debian 11 without systemd released as Devuan 4.0", which is not exactly hot news.

Of course our dear old PKTKS had to repost here with the same garbled title  |O

Dont think so...

I track and mirror Devuan since day one.

They have always used that nomenclature while trying to reference a stable Debian with the current stable Devuan

That makes sense

So you can use any package not crippled by systemd in both   

Obviously using your own tracking

This is not an error
It is a method of the forking
Makes sense

Paul
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2021, 09:22:21 am »
Much exuberance.
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2021, 09:29:56 am »
ehhhhhhh 

I am not sure what is better or worst...  ???

I rather prefer using a sane snapshot numbering system..
Like this one cross relating a stable Debian with a stable Devuan...

than.... using that funky shitty "naming" Bull... Rat.. Mysss..

Can not figure out why they have to put names like these on distros..  :o
never could  ::)

Why one would name a distro like a PET? a loved (or cursed) chick?
or a FUK*** disease more or less...

Paul   :horse: :popcorn:
better use numbering
 

Online Nominal Animal

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2021, 10:03:00 am »
Releases use names for the exact same reason storms have names. (They even use the exact same method, just with a different name lists.)

Most developers and meteorologists would be happier using numeric references, or perhaps date-based labeling; myself included.

It's when dealing with users that those break down; non-technical/non-scientific people never get them right.

With names, there's a better chance of knowing what the users are referring to (and easier for newspeople to talk about, without confusing listeners about whether they're talking about currently active stuff or past stuff).

Don't forget, the majority of humans are rather stupid, and prone to magical thinking and anthropomorphisms.
 
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Online magic

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2021, 11:56:18 am »
Also antimagical thinking - refusing to see patterns which are plain to see.
"Hey dude, we just fix that new bug in a jiffy while you get used to that one new feature and you will have no trouble with systemd*** ever again" :-DD
 

Online RoGeorge

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2021, 12:15:58 pm »
Though, names are very useful when googling something about a certain version.

Numbers tend to be ignored by search engines, or at best they are considered but not associated with the word preceding them.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 12:17:36 pm by RoGeorge »
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2021, 12:33:47 pm »

Slackware never ever had a problem with a plain simple  numbered releases..

If you google slackware-3 or slackware-14  you got sane results...

IMHO that kept the "brand"  Slackware clean and organized..

Not to mention it is still the most *NIX of all.. faithful and trusty..
Besides FreeBSD and  OpenBSD of course...
although they are being forced to adopt some "modern" shit from some distros

Paul
 

Online Nominal Animal

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2021, 03:03:01 pm »
Slackware never ever had a problem with a plain simple  numbered releases..
No, but they didn't have to deal with masses of non-technical users either.

If it matters, I don't know the release names of even the distros I use; I don't find them useful either.  I wasn't trying to advocate for using them, just trying to explain why they're used.  Even I, when talking to non-techie users about some specific distro and its version, will look the version "name" up, because non-techie users just grasp things better if they have a clearly distinguishable name as opposed to just a version number.  In the other direction, when trying to glean technical information out of them, errors in the names are also easier to detect.

In particular, I've managed a complete non-techie relative to run cat /etc/deb*ion and cat /etc/issue when talking over the phone, to find out approximately what distro they were running –– and yes, they did misread the version number in /etc/issue.
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2021, 04:06:28 pm »
Slackware never ever had a problem with a plain simple  numbered releases..
No, but they didn't have to deal with masses of non-technical users either.
(..)

Perhaps...

But probably by the time they appeared (circa early 90s) the goal was pretty much to have anything better than blue screens of death... and alternative to SCO/AIX or HPUX

Precisely my case when dumped the SCO to a much better Slackware.
soon Debian and RH evolved and the distro fever started...

The obvious twist to commercial interest w/systemd made the forks..

Back to the point who needs commercial crippled windooze like NIX?
Technical users?

I doubt.  All serious capable ones will ditch (yet again) that crap (again...)  :palm:
back to the ground zero

Paul
 

Online Nominal Animal

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2021, 04:24:27 pm »
That's exactly the reason I personally want there to be not only different Linux distros, but other free/libre OSes like FreeBSD and OpenBSD, too.  No need to start from scratch, just pick and choose what one sees best for the task at hand; at least as long as there is still choices to be made, and customization is not forbidden by some inane license, policy, or political law.

Which reminds me: OpenBSD 7.0 was also released very recently (2021-10-14).  No systemd there, either.
If one wants to set up a small server –– not just x86-64, but many arm64 boards are also supported; including Odroid-C4 and Odroid-HC4 (for a NAS, for example) –– running OpenBSD on it might be an excellent idea.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 04:26:10 pm by Nominal Animal »
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2021, 04:52:29 pm »
Dont think so...

By 2000s I tried Debian..then RedHat (both *BEFORE*) the crappy systemd...
Then realized that being held on their "distribution cycle" is more a problem than a solution

Got back to full Slackware on all changed server..

But  I had an utmost need to have a operating NAS with:
- full hardware support
- capable to adapt to whatever change in hard/soft needed
- capable to scale wo any license or soft restriction...

Then came LFS -  implemented my NAS based on it.
Never stopped.

later changed the core to Busybox so to operate diskless from RAM only..
so far it works up to today on rolling basis..

The thing w/LFS..

You are 200%  free to mount your base system.
no more no less. Pick EACH item yourself...

bye bye distros

It just works
Paul

« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 04:55:15 pm by PKTKS »
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2021, 04:04:24 am »
Poor Derek.

 

Online RoGeorge

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2021, 04:58:45 am »


That's a waste of time.  A tormented 30 minutes rant.   :-//

The Ubuntu install was just fine, except the snap repos application.  That window was not populated with packages by categories, and doesn't show any feedback,while installing something, maybe a bug, I don't know.

Then he starts a snap install, then seconds later he starts another snap install for the same program, the GUI tells him it can not do the second install because it's busy with the first install that was still in progress.  He doesn't bother understanding the message or even reading it, let alone looking up for its meaning.

Other than that, nothing looked different at Ubuntu, same like in the last 3 years or so, except this time the installer can install on a ZFS file system, and the apt does automatic ZFS snapshots at install, which is great.
 
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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2021, 05:43:57 am »

Then he starts a snap install, then seconds later he starts another snap install for the same program, the GUI tells him it can not do the second install because it's busy with the first install that was still in progress.  He doesn't bother understanding the message or even reading it, let alone looking up for its meaning.

The OS is meant to invite users over to Linux. It's hard to ignore the fact it's offensive that a company like canonical could drop such a release into the wild in 2021.
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2021, 08:46:21 am »
I just tried to uninstall an app on Windows while another app was uninstalling and OMG it told me it couldn't because it was busy uninstalling the first!

The OS is meant to invite users over to Windows. It's hard to ignore the fact it's offensive that a company like microsoft could drop such a release into the wild in 2021.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 08:47:55 am by voltsandjolts »
 

Online Fred27

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2021, 08:58:38 am »
I'm just here to see if anyone has somehow found a way to blame Micro$oft Windoze for this yet.... you didn't let me down.  ;D
 

Offline BradC

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2021, 09:51:40 am »
I've been using Devuan since the Jessie alpha releases, and prior to that using Debian on the desktop and back end since about 1996.

I know and understand Debian and its package management, but when systemd came along it broke things in a way I had neither the time nor inclination to figure out. Thankfully a group of people make a reliable derivative using the same init system whos source code floated to the surface inscribed on wooden tablets when Noahs ark sank. It might be old, but it's simple and I can fix it when it breaks.

I'm not religious about it, just lazy.
 
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Offline PKTKS

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Re: Devuan 4.0 Released As Debian 11 Without Systemd
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2021, 10:15:55 am »
It is not a question of being lazy...  :o

The folk on phoronix summarizes the problem very well
It is all about a nasty shitty business hidden underneath systemd..

I am not willing to be held hostage on yet another shitty buz of some corp..
I had enough of it in the 80s 90s... enough.  :-\

On the other dark side... WTF!
Who in hell today! in the 20s ...
Is willing to pay a garbage OS  like windooze...

If they do not insist on their "bundled in manufacturer" business they are doomed..

You can see "discounts" of more than 90%! (go figure) to sell this shitty OS..
https://www.godeal24.com/windows-10-professional-32-64-bit-1-pc.html?g24=sgo23

Who is willing to pay for a dead crawl shitty OS that requires you logged on their telemetry servers..  just drop the shit hard and move on..

A hundred other distros can replace that shit..

Anyone can even craft a simple one..
Paul
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 10:18:14 am by PKTKS »
 


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