Doubts DVD drive of PC

[robertart]

I have some doubts about PC DVD drives

1) Which DVD burn / reader drive firmware is saved on which type of flash memory chip? is a flash memory with time limit for data retention in storage?

2) Which DVD burn / reader drive is more durable to store in the long term without use for future use, internal SATA drive or external USB drive?

[ebastler]

Is that you, classicsamus87?

[robertart]

Is that you, classicsamus87?

no

[Mechatrommer]

nobody knows what firmware in DVD flash memory, you have to ask DVD manufacturer in factory. and nobody knows which one internal SATA or external USB DVD is more durable, you just buy any brand name and live with it. dont ask stupid question, now bugger off!

[ebastler]

Is that you, classicsamus87?

no

[retiredfeline]

Is that you, classicsamus87?

no

I think we'd better warn classicsamus87 that someone is pretending to be them. 

[NiHaoMike]

I think he's asking what DVD drive to keep so that he'll have something to read the archives in the long term. I would say USB since that's not likely to go away from PCs anytime soon, IDE is already gone from modern PCs and SATA is at risk of being replaced by M.2 PCIe. I would say that the biggest problem with keeping an optical drive for a long time without use is the grease hardening and binding the mechanism. Just power it up every year or so to make sure it still works and to avoid the binding issue.

[robertart]

Thanks for the reply friend, I will buy two DVD drives (burn / reader) and store them but I am in doubt if it is more resistant and mechanically durable, optical laser the internal SATA drive or the external USB

about using them to not have problems with grease, mechanics and lens what is the maximum period allowed without use and without risks for optical pc drives?

[Mechatrommer]

I will buy two DVD drives (burn / reader) and store them but I am in doubt if it is more resistant and mechanically durable, optical laser the internal SATA drive or the external USB
about using them to not have problems with grease, mechanics and lens what is the maximum period allowed without use and without risks for optical pc drives?

if you can afford to buy 2 today, you better buy one good brand today, regardless int SATA or ext USB, all the same. 5 years later buy again another DVD whatever technology offers during that time (nobody knows what will and how, only God), and burn again your precious DVD disc to another newer DVD during that time. you have the chance to transit from old tech to newer tech before data get rotten and never lose data and never the need to go nuts today finding a device that can last 100 years. this is how data backup works. you dont expect to backup data today and expect it to work 10, 20 or 50 years in the future. no DVD disc, player even HDD/SSD nor tapes can last that long, unless you want to write millions of 0101 on animal skin. archiving data is not free lunch, esp in digital/magnetic medium. you'll be deluded if you think it is. if you force yourself to find such durable medium, you'll start complaining about the cost before you can get any near it. so then you'll waste peoples time by asking too much nonsense.

[robertart]

brand my drives is ASUS

[Halcyon]

Is that you, classicsamus87?

no

Your IP address says otherwise. I've sent you a PM, please respond to it.

[steve30]

Remember to store the drives in plastic bags.

[Mechatrommer]

brand my drives is ASUS

now go play with it! dont bother other people! as a token of my courteousness, i will give you hint... find a DVD burner that has "verify burnt data" feature. google "dvd burner software" there are lot of them. go try and play one by one. with verify feature, you can make sure the burnt data is exactly as the original data, the SW will warn you if any corrupted burnt data. if you still phobia, burn 100 DVD of the same copy! one in each day. and also go sit properly, google and read about data redundancy, data verification method, how checksum works? how zip (or iso?) file verify the integrity of its file (its there since ages), all of them are softwares and cheap! you dont have to pay a fortune, just read and enhance yourself with knowledges, its a lot better then spamming people with nonsense questions that you'll never understand the answer anyway. after you play and found problem with your ASUS and data verification softwares, then you can ask here with specific details of what you problem is. cheers 

[robertart]

dvd drive sata is same dvd external drive usb in durability, lens, mechanical is same?

[Alex Eisenhut]

https://www.lifewire.com/death-of-the-computer-optical-drive-832403

https://blog.discogs.com/en/say-no-to-disc-rot-how-to-look-after-cds/

https://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub121/sec4/

[Mechatrommer]

dvd drive sata is same dvd external drive usb in durability, lens, mechanical is same?

yes same... they will die in few years... how about treating classicsamus87 and robertart the same?

[Halcyon]

dvd drive sata is same dvd external drive usb in durability, lens, mechanical is same?

yes same... they will die in few years... how about treating classicsamus87 and robertart the same?

They are the same person. I have confirmed this to be true.

Robertart/Classicsamus87 has been spoken to and explained why he was banned in the first place (again). At this stage I've made the decision not to ban this new account (although he did circumvent a ban and then lied about it publicly). But, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I think there might be more at play than just a language barrier. We'll be watching...

[MK14]

Which DVD burn / reader drive is more durable

Your story doesn't add up (seem real), to me.

Because you (assuming identical identities), seemed to say you had already BOUGHT/obtained the DVD drives, two of them.
E.g. One was from your brother.

Why is your story changing ?

A changing story, worries me, that it may not be 100% truthful.

tl;dr
Which is it ?
Advice on buying new DVD drives, or help with 2 you already own and possess ?

[robertart]

I didn't lie the story is true my brother provided me with DVD drives and none worked so I put it in the trash and bought a new unused drive

[MK14]

I didn't lie the story is true my brother provided me with DVD drives and none worked so I put it in the trash and bought a new unused drive

The unused, stored DVD drive. Might work in 5, 10, 15, 20, ... years time. But I don't think anyone really knows (unless they have a working crystal ball or similar).

Unfortunately, old technology, somewhat disappears over the years.

[retiredfeline]

I didn't lie the story is true my brother provided me with DVD drives and none worked so I put it in the trash and bought a new unused drive

Why not just buy two of something, store in a plastic bag and leave them for another brother to worry about decades in the future?

[Mechatrommer]

rather than further steering away the already deluded guy. why dont you people guide him to his exact problem? his problem is not the dvd player, but dvd medium that he will put his data in.. i can sense a risk of CD/DVD obsoletion, much like floppy disc in the past. so he maybe better to keep his data inside a HDD anyway, 1TB Seagata HDD is not so expensive this days, about $50 or so, that i can say, can last up to 10 years without heavy usage. so $5/year investment on real data storage (instead of reader/burner only) is not so bad. but then i'm afraid we'll go back to HDD SMART firmware problem again

[ebastler]

While it is difficult to predict the future (in terms of durability of specific media or devices), maybe a look to the past can help to put things into perspective.

In my personal experience, I can still read all the various media formats I have worked with since 1980, and some which are significantly older than that: Paper tapes, 1960s magnetic tape, many floppy disk formats starting with Apple's proprietary DOS format, ZIP disks, various generations of optical disks and hard drives, old ROMs and EPROMs.

All the old media have held up very well. I hardly encounter unreadable optical or floppy disks -- and that includes the 40-year-old Apple floppies. To read them, either the right "vintage" devices are still available (my own old stuff still works, or I bought someone else's on ebay), or a new backwards compatible device is available (e.g. optical disk drives), or I can build something in hardware and/or software (did that for paper tape and for demodulating the old magnetic tape).

So my advice would be as simple as:

• Label and document your stuff well, so you remember what it is. Biggest danger of "data loss" in my experience...
• Store in a dry and cool place.
• Relax!

[Mechatrommer]

In my personal experience, I can still read all the various media formats I have worked with since 1980, and some which are significantly older than that: Paper tapes, 1960s magnetic tape, many floppy disk formats starting with Apple's proprietary DOS format, ZIP disks, various generations of optical disks and hard drives, old ROMs and EPROMs.

is there particular reason why you want to keep ancient machines just to be compatible with ancient media? why dont convert them all to modern media? HDD or DVD? you must have some big space just for those ancient machines. i have some floppy discs and unknown state of floppy drives collecting dust in store, but i never bother trying to resurrect them and reconnect to my PC, not too important data in there while i was a kid, so let them die. i keep the drives just because i think i can reuse the components inside and i keep the floppy discs just to show my kids and grand kids something they probably never seen before.

[ebastler]

is there particular reason why you want to keep ancient machines just to be compatible with ancient media? why dont convert them all to modern media? HDD or DVD? you must have some big space just for those ancient machines.

The main reason for keeping old computers (and the corresponding media) is the desire to preserve the look and feel of the old computers themselves. I have also transferred copies of the data to new media, but e.g. a software emulator for an Apple II isn't the same thing as the original machine with its rattling and shuffling floppy drives.

I have been quite disciplined when it comes to collecting stuff at home: A couple of old Macs, the Apple II and (worst "offence") the massive Baudot teletype which was my first printer. The bigger toys are not mine, but are hosted at a private computer museum where I help out, during non-Covid times: https://technikum29.de/en/.

But again, while we have read old media that were added to the collection and want to use the old media on the old machines, we also make backup copies on modern HDDs!
 

[MK14]

The main reason for keeping old computers (and the corresponding media) is the desire to preserve the look and feel of the old computers themselves. I have also transferred copies of the data to new media, but e.g. a software emulator for an Apple II isn't the same thing as the original machine with its rattling and shuffling floppy drives.

I have been quite disciplined when it comes to collecting stuff at home: A couple of old Macs, the Apple II and (worst "offence") the massive Baudot teletype which was my first printer. The bigger toys are not mine, but are hosted at a private computer museum where I help out, during non-Covid times: https://technikum29.de/en/.

But again, while we have read old media that were added to the collection and want to use the old media on the old machines, we also make backup copies on modern HDDs!

That's a very good answer 

That looks a very nice museum to visit. Although obviously, now would not be the best of times.

As I have probably said in other threads (just like you), I like emulators to some extent. But they don't seem to quite give one, the same look/feel/smell and experience of the real thing. Somehow it's those extra whirring noises, and the difficulties of pressing all those buttons, the warm feeling one gets, when you see all those flashing lights, while the ancient computer struggles to perform the calculations, etc etc.

Back in those good/bad old days 

[robertart]

please answer my question and stop asking who i am where i posted etc.

[SVFeingold]

please answer my question and stop asking who i am where i posted etc.

Which $20 DVD drive will last several decades is the wrong question. None of them. Or all of them. A $200 drive might die in a year. A $10 drive might last for 30 years. Who knows.

Get archival bluray media and buy a drive. It's not cheap but the media should last 100+ years. There's probably archival DVD media as well. The best solution long-term is - as always - to transfer it to new media every so often. In 30 years you don't want to be stuck trying to find a Bluray drive, and an adapter for the interface it uses, and a driver for the current OS, and/or emulating a compatible OS that will properly interface with it, etc. These get harder and harder to find easily as time goes on.

I had a hell of a time getting the right setup to transfer some circa-2010 MiniDV footage via Firewire a couple months ago. Took weeks trying different PCIe 1394 adapters (only 1 of 3 worked), messing with Windows 1394 legacy drivers, trying different cables, finding a compatible player, etc. And that's Firewire! It's not that old.

[hexreader]

please answer my question and stop asking who i am where i posted etc.

Please stop asking the same questions over and over under multiple user names on multiple forums.

Here is what I know so far:

User names:
John rodrigues, johnroduigues, Gamer87, gamer87, micksmelanie, james23051987, cloudff7, johnmullins, scatmanjohn, classicsamus87, classicsamus, classicjohn, hardwarepc86, robertart, eletroenergy

Forums:
allaboutcircuits - james23051987, micksmelanie (banned), classicsamus87 (banned), hardwarepc86
Edaboard - Gamer87 (banned), John rodrigues (banned)
ETO - cloudff7 (banned), classicjohn (banned), eletroenergy
Electronics Point - gamer87, johnmullins, scatmanjohn, classicsamus(banned)
EEVblog - micksmelanie (banned), johnrodrigues (banned), classicsamus87, robertart
EverDrive - cloudff7
WD community - gamer87
tom's hardware - cloudff7
scienceforums.net gamer87

From Brazil, IP address Brazil, but claiming UK, New York, Andorra, Argentina

Behaviours:
Storing things, flooding multiple forums, opening multiple accounts, asking the same question over and over, lying

[SVFeingold]

I read some of his old posts from other accounts and man. I'm at a loss. It's not even like he's shilling for some shady webstore or trying to get people to send money. It's just bizzare. It's like an AI wrote them.

"SSD Banggood storage for family photos how long safe for?"

Like what could possibly be the purpose of these weird-ass questions? Are there really people out there that care that much about how safe their data is on random garbage-tier storage devices? I guess that's what that one dude was buying hundreds of counterfeit flash drives for $1 a piece "because it's such a good deal." Or maybe his hobbies are leaky old caps and cheap storage media. 

[Halcyon]

I read some of his old posts from other accounts and man. I'm at a loss. It's not even like he's shilling for some shady webstore or trying to get people to send money. It's just bizzare. It's like an AI wrote them.

I thought exactly this initially, but the PM responses I was getting back were a bit too "personal" if you know what I mean, I still haven't ruled it out though.

[hexreader]

I think I am just about ready to go mad.

https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/doubt-dvd-drive-sata-pc.160704/

[Halcyon]

I think I am just about ready to go mad.

https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/doubt-dvd-drive-sata-pc.160704/

I like your response. As long as he doesn't bring that crap here again... He has had his several chances.

[MK14]

I think I am just about ready to go mad.

https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/doubt-dvd-drive-sata-pc.160704/

It is so across the internet, in so many circles.
Look:
https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/122880-question-glue-bag-and-label-product-aliexpress/

[Alex Eisenhut]

Someone should buy him a Blu Ray burner and get it over with. The scratch-resistant coating of Blu Ray discs is far superior to DVD discs's coating.

Just that alone should end that debate immediately.

I still borrow DVDs from the library to watch things I would never pay for. The discs are universally scratched and often stutter on playback.

When I get Blu Rays, the discs presumably handled the same way as DVDs, are much shinier and smooth and no problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durabis

Maybe "Robert" will finally now find peace.

[SVFeingold]

I don't think he actually cares about the DVD stuff at all. It's way too bizarre. Nobody is that stupid. I could see like...a bird repeating the same question 1,000 times in 1,000 places while being totally incapable of comprehending any answer. A bird yes. A human? No...

WHAT IS YOUR PURPOSE ROBOT MAN?

[MK14]

I don't think he actually cares about the DVD stuff at all. It's way too bizarre. Nobody is that stupid. I could see like...a bird repeating the same question 1,000 times in 1,000 places while being totally incapable of comprehending any answer. A bird yes. A human? No...

WHAT IS YOUR PURPOSE ROBOT MAN?

If you want some variety, they also do this one:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/360851-Question-monitor-LCD-durability

How many years can last up to an LCD monitor? I'm not talking about LED
type: mine is a Samsung 732NW model manufactured in 2007, it is still running in 2013 but want to know how long it can withstand a maximum taking into account its components such as motherboard, capacitors, liquid crystal display, power supply and lamps
is very important for me to find a concrete answer because just think different opinions and no opinion of someone who understands the subject as an engineer

[SVFeingold]

Maybe he has a fetish for failure modes in old electronics. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

[Ian.M]

Maybe he has a fetish for failure modes in old electronics. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

Eeeww!  NSFW!  I doubt Dave or anyone else who dumpster-dives for old electronics wants to have to consider the need to inspect salvaged equipment under UV light, and with a Luminol spray  to detect bio-hazards from fetishistic self-gratification.

[Mechatrommer]

Like what could possibly be the purpose of these weird-ass questions? Are there really people out there that care that much about how safe their data is on random garbage-tier storage devices? I guess that's what that one dude was buying hundreds of counterfeit flash drives for $1 a piece "because it's such a good deal." Or maybe his hobbies are leaky old caps and cheap storage media. 

you mean this? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/1tb-pendrive-for-$5-$20/msg3402526/#msg3402526 at least there is "science" behind it and "that guy" is not fooling other people around... by repeating the same question over and over 1000 times. wouldnt you agree?

[Mechatrommer]

If you want some variety, they also do this one:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/360851-Question-monitor-LCD-durability

I got this monitor as a gift from a friend and how old it is (2007) I wanted to know the longevity of a LCD monitor as it has several parts board, lamps, lcd, power supply capacitors

Your story doesn't add up (seem real), to me.

Because you (assuming identical identities), seemed to say you had already BOUGHT/obtained the DVD drives, two of them.
E.g. One was from your brother.

Why is your story changing ?

A changing story, worries me, that it may not be 100% truthful.

tl;dr
Which is it ?
Advice on buying new DVD drives, or help with 2 you already own and possess ?

I didn't lie the story is true my brother provided me with DVD drives and none worked so I put it in the trash and bought a new unused drive

But, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I think there might be more at play than just a language barrier. We'll be watching...

funniest robot i've encountered... reminds me one of my room mate back in school. almost everything everytime later turned out to be like "bully" scenario, due to his obsession and inadequacy at comprehending advices.

[DrG]

It is a puzzle. The user (under all of the nicknames and across all of the sites) has found a way to compulsively ask questions that can never be answered. The questions are asked in an environment (Forums) that literally depends on answering questions. Intentional or not, it is a good example of exploitation.

Fledgling AI / hybrid program, some kind of compulsive disorder, troll, sincere but odd-ball enthusiast? Is someone sitting behind the monitor gleefully chuckling at every response, or paralyzed by the fear of not knowing how long XXX will last. There is a kind of dysfunctional brilliance there, reminds me of an MC Escher engraving.

[Alex Eisenhut]

Maybe he has a fetish for failure modes in old electronics. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

Then he should collect Tektronix 500 series scopes and plugins. Esoteric parts and inexplicable failures all over the place!

[sleemanj]

I don't think the poster is a bot, could be, but I don't think so.

I think they are just well onto the autistic spectrum - gets some item of minutiae stuck in the brain, extreme focus on it to detriment of taking other information offered, difficulty with communication and understanding that people don't know what's in their own head or see things the same way they do.

There's plenty of people on the spectrum here in EEVBlog, although this poster seems a bit further along than most.

It would be better if they just stuck to one username though, then those who don't want to deal with it can just add to their ignore list.

[Haenk]

A pure SATA drive is certainly (in theory) more reliable than an USB-based drive - a USB driver board just adds another point of failure.
However there is no point in storing spares of those. All computers for more than a decade came with one, so it's pretty certain used drives will be around for 1-2 decades.

[Halcyon]

I don't think the poster is a bot, could be, but I don't think so.

I think they are just well onto the autistic spectrum - gets some item of minutiae stuck in the brain, extreme focus on it to detriment of taking other information offered, difficulty with communication and understanding that people don't know what's in their own head or see things the same way they do.

There's plenty of people on the spectrum here in EEVBlog, although this poster seems a bit further along than most.

It would be better if they just stuck to one username though, then those who don't want to deal with it can just add to their ignore list.

I whole heartedly agree, hence the several chances. But at the end of the day, without making this an "exclusive" community, we have some standards to uphold, loose standards, I grant you that, but standards nonetheless. There are essentially three of us who help Dave run this place: Simon who you all should know pretty well has been around for ages, he does an amazing job with moderation when I'm asleep or otherwise tied up, Gnif who does all the server/back-end stuff (and rarely intervenes in the forum) and myself. As a bit of insight, the moment anyone reports a post to a moderator, we all get an email, each and every time (for me, that means my phone goes off).

With the amount of users and activity, this is one of the least moderated forums out there, particularly when you look at the inconsistent and heavy-handed approach of forums like Whirlpool (I make no bones about that).

If you think difficult users could be handled differently, we're all ears. I will say however, the moderator system on this forum is kind of crap. ;-)

[MK14]

I whole heartedly agree, hence the several chances. But at the end of the day, without making this an "exclusive" community, we have some standards to uphold,

Although I'm not sure if it is a real person with a real problem, or outright trolling (possibly by someone else), or even some kind of AI/Bot system (not trying to disagree, but trying to keep an open/scientific mind, until we know 100% for sure). But I agree, the AI/bot theory seems to have been largely eliminated, or at least there is a human operator there, some of the time.

Assuming it is a real person, with genuine issues. It is too much.
They keep on (looking around other forums, as well as ours), continually picking on items they have (DVD/HDD/Monitor/CR2032's/crt-TVs/Power-adapters etc), and essentially ask how long it is going to last (and possibly how to preserve it).

They get say 50 people, who all say 'don't worry about it' etc. But they just keep on and on about it. Until it drives everyone nuts about this guys repeated threads/posts about the same thing.

I don't think we can help them on this forum. In-fact I think, we are probably making them worse. When we mention possible ways things can fail, e.g. Bad Electrolytic Capacitors.
It seems to drive them into making threads about how long Electrolytic Capacitors last.
If you reassure them about that, they then go on and on, about something else.

They seem to need professional help (not engineering advice).

[Ian.M]

... There are essentially three of us who help Dave run this place: Simon who you all should know pretty well has been around for ages, he does an amazing job with moderation when I'm asleep or otherwise tied up, Gnif who does all the server/back-end stuff (and rarely intervenes in the forum) and myself. As a bit of insight, the moment anyone reports a post to a moderator, we all get an email, each and every time (for me, that means my phone goes off).

O.T. @Halcyon:  I frequently report spammers.  If you have other measures in place and would rather I wasn't blowing up your phone with alerts so frequently, please let me know.

[Halcyon]

... There are essentially three of us who help Dave run this place: Simon who you all should know pretty well has been around for ages, he does an amazing job with moderation when I'm asleep or otherwise tied up, Gnif who does all the server/back-end stuff (and rarely intervenes in the forum) and myself. As a bit of insight, the moment anyone reports a post to a moderator, we all get an email, each and every time (for me, that means my phone goes off).

O.T. @Halcyon:  I frequently report spammers.  If you have other measures in place and would rather I wasn't blowing up your phone with alerts so frequently, please let me know.

Nah it's all good. It comes in waves, we'd prefer you report, particularly spammers as they are usually jumped on pretty quickly. Whenever we get a spammer, there is usually 5-10 people hitting that report button ;-) It actually helps somewhat, if it's a one-off alert, it's usually some disagreement or "move this thread", those can wait, if my phone keeps going off, it's usually something that needs attention fairly quickly.