Firefox: Mozilla is doing bad things again

[madires]

They want to introduce terms of use to Firefox and update the privacy notice 'to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible' (Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox, https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-terms-of-use/). Of course users are concerned, ask for clarification, and point out issues (Information about the New Terms of Use and Updated Privacy Notice for Firefox, https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/information-about-the-new-terms-of-use-and-updated-privacy/m-p/87735). That doesn't sound too bad, right? But there's that distinctive smell of hyprocrisy lurking in the background when looking at the latest FAQ changes (https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/commit/d459addab846d8144b61939b7f4310eb80c5470e#diff-a24e74e4595fa85440a2f4e7e5dcfe68aba6e1e593aef05a2d35581a91423847L65).

[voltsandjolts]

What's the TLDR?

[madires]

It's a developing story. So far Mozilla's changes (expecially their language) point to the typical 'we may use your data in any way we like' stance. Maybe we (users) can convince Mozilla to not go down that road.

[SiliconWizard]

Yep.
Mozilla is a lost cause anyway.

[tszaboo]

It's a developing story. So far Mozilla's changes (expecially their language) point to the typical 'we may use your data in any way we like' stance. Maybe we (users) can convince Mozilla to not go down that road.

I don't think so. They also are large on DEI and other woke nonsense. And you are not paying for the product, so "just not buying it" is not an option. Stop using it, last one leaving can turn off the lights.

[Refrigerator]

It's over, guys.

[fourtytwo42]

Moving over to Brave as I speak (Linux Mint 21.1) no problems so far 
I have been suspicious of Mozilla for some time and for me that's the last nail in there coffin 

EDIT:
Actually I found Brave very clunky and it has some stupid verification popup that keeps appearing  so now scrapped in favor of LibreWolf (thanks Gyro) 

[Analog Kid]

It's a developing story. So far Mozilla's changes (expecially their language) point to the typical 'we may use your data in any way we like' stance. Maybe we (users) can convince Mozilla to not go down that road.

I don't think so. They also are large on DEI and other woke nonsense. And you are not paying for the product, so "just not buying it" is not an option. Stop using it, last one leaving can turn off the lights.

So far as I'm concerned, DEI's got nothing to do with anything here. Fine with me whatever ethnicity/gender, etc., the developers are. More power to them.

I've just had it with that particular "open-source" project (and actually with most of them). It's a dysfunctional product that's now getting all kinds of overlays of intrusive technology that none of us need. So the hell with them.

[Whales]

Moving over to Brave as I speak (Linux Mint 21.1) no problems so far 
I have been suspicious of Mozilla for some time and for me that's the last nail in there coffin 

Brave is adware.  They display their own ads to you, collect info on how you behave and sell it.  The fact they claim they block other peoples trackers is moot, that's like a security company telling you they will get rid of hecklers if you accept their hecklers, or a paint company claiming it can fix your lead paint concerns by giving you cadmium paint.

Brave is the browser that in 2023 decided to install other affiliated products on Windows computers without asking the user for permission.  https://www.ghacks.net/2023/10/18/brave-is-installing-vpn-services-without-user-consent/

Brave is the browser that lets you donate money to creators, but then holds it and uses it for the Brave project instead.  https://web.archive.org/web/20181224011529/https://twitter.com/tomscott/status/1076160979388518407

In other words: it combines the worst of the popular malware of the 2000's (bundling, auto-installing affiliated software) with the worst of the popular malware of the 2010's (user tracking, advertising, manipulation of user perception of security) and traditional flat out donation scams.

[Stray Electron]

Yep.
Mozilla is a lost cause anyway.

  X2. That's why I locked my FF at Version 101.0.1

[Stray Electron]

It's a developing story. So far Mozilla's changes (expecially their language) point to the typical 'we may use your data in any way we like' stance. Maybe we (users) can convince Mozilla to not go down that road.

I don't think so. They also are large on DEI and other woke nonsense. And you are not paying for the product, so "just not buying it" is not an option. Stop using it, last one leaving can turn off the lights.

   I doubt that this has anything to do with DEI. It's more likely that this is Mozilla's way of "Moneytizing" (i.e. a fancy term for Selling) your information and maximizing their own profits. 

   OTOH that doesn't mean that they won't sell it to anyone that is interested in DEI or pushing other Woke agendas. 

[mwb1100]

In the My Firefox says it is about to die... thread @Gryo mentioned Librefox Librewolf.  I haven't tried it yet, but I hope it'll let me not worry about about this kind of crap.

Edit: Gyro mentioned Librewolf, not Librefox.  "Librafox" was just me mixing up Firefox and Librewolf and by coincidence there is a Librefox project with similar stated goals as Librewolf - but they are not the same.  Gyro did not mention or suggest Librafox in any way.  And I know nothing about it either.  It was just an accident.   I'm sorry if I sent anyone down the wrong path.

On the other hand, if anyone does have knowledge/experience (good or bad) with Librafox, please let us know.

[radiolistener]

I have been suspicious of Mozilla for some time and for me that's the last nail in there coffin 

Yes, their several last versions was very suspicious. For some unknown reason it started to work slower.

[Gyro]

In the My Firefox says it is about to die... thread @Gryo mentioned Librefox.  I haven't tried it yet, but I hope it'll let me not worry about about this kind of crap.

It was LibreWolf... https://librewolf.net/ that I suggested, not Librefox - I'd never heard of Librefox and would want to look at it in detail before trying it (it appears to be a temporary version, consisting of a bunch of config files for Firefox, at the moment).

Reading around the web, Librewolf and Brave (and Tor) browsers seem to be the most private, I have both installed, avoiding anything Tor.

[mwb1100]

It was LibreWolf... https://librewolf.net/ that I suggested, not Librefox - I'd never heard of Librefox and would want to look at it in detail before trying it (it appears to be a temporary version, consisting of a bunch of config files for Firefox, at the moment).

I apologize.  I goofed.  The post has been updated/corrected.

[madires]

Mozilla's response to the outcry:
- Mozilla is already revising its new Firefox terms to clarify how it handles user data (https://www.theverge.com/news/622080/mozilla-revising-firefox-terms-of-use-data)
- An update on our Terms of Use (https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/update-on-terms-of-use/)

[golden_labels]

You know, what makes me cringe?

• Clicking alarmistic links led to more private data being sold, than what Mozilla ever had in their hands. Journalists did a great job in attracting victims.
• Most people didn’t notice, that the initial wording used was a standard template intellectual property legalese. Not the language used in privacy context. Headline-induced text blindness? Journalistic copypastosis?

[mikerj]

You know, what makes me cringe?

• Clicking alarmistic links led to more private data being sold, than what Mozilla ever had in their hands. Journalists did a great job in attracting victims.
• Most people didn’t notice, that the initial wording used was a standard template intellectual property legalese. Not the language used in privacy context. Headline-induced text blindness? Journalistic copypastosis?

Why did they refuse to clearly state that they wouldn't sell your data, and then double down on the ambiguous wording when there was backlash?

[mikerj]

In the My Firefox says it is about to die... thread @Gryo mentioned Librefox.  I haven't tried it yet, but I hope it'll let me not worry about about this kind of crap.

It was LibreWolf... https://librewolf.net/ that I suggested, not Librefox - I'd never heard of Librefox and would want to look at it in detail before trying it (it appears to be a temporary version, consisting of a bunch of config files for Firefox, at the moment).

Reading around the web, Librewolf and Brave (and Tor) browsers seem to be the most private, I have both installed, avoiding anything Tor.

Just FYI, the Librewolf dev team is hugely and unapologetically woke.  They brand anyone that doesn't align with their ideology as "right wing" and ban them.

[coppercone2]

Not sure why you would care about the dev team, its the last thing I worry about when using the internet. I might care if it was a luxury purchase of some kind, like art..

Some how I don't think it will have too big of an effect on whatever politics you support.. definitely pick the ones with features that make you feel safe.

[SiliconWizard]

Looks like the non-woke dev teams in open-source projects are pretty rare these days.

[coppercone2]

when is the last time a republican gave anyone a free lunch??

charity?


Also with lack of work from home, those isolated people are gonna keep doing open source 

[John B]

Not sure why you would care about the dev team, its the last thing I worry about when using the internet. I might care if it was a luxury purchase of some kind, like art..

Some how I don't think it will have too big of an effect on whatever politics you support.. definitely pick the ones with features that make you feel safe.

I go back and forth on the idea, but I think on some level if you use the product, that becomes a stat in securing funding and donations, to the exclusion of other projects. After all there's only a limited pie of resources to divvy up.

It has some effect to use the products that embody what you want to see in the world. Unfortunately in practice it's almost impossible to actually live by that principle.

[coppercone2]

I feel like I am way too small and everything is way too against me to make this decision.

Now, someone in the head of a large company can decide to choose tech to use. Usually they fuck it up, like say destroying a corporate network with citrix, but theoretically they have the resources to choose.

The internet is like hostile and private individuals dont have luxury. Its a security issue. Want ad's that can have been compromised to download malware? tracking ? I don't think you have the luxury . Not with a browser anyway. You can pick a washing machine, similar cars, food brands with little personal consequence, but it does not seem a browser is one of those things to me. I think there are very clear smart and not smart decisions in that region, based purely on functionality.

Maybe in a deep future where its all safe.. right now there is like a possibility of getting your computer sacked because of a download (and possibly losing more then your data). It has to do with picking software that has the  maximum probability of your personal rights not being violated. I think it surpasses any kind of political or other goals.  It seems that there is a very disproportionate gap between your personal needs involving computers and far away political ideals. So I think you should take what you can get and be happy with it.

The only reasonable political statement that is sane to make is to make your own team to make a competitor product with your own team.. ideals. But not boycotting.

I think its just one of those things that on a local level is going to go against ideology. I have seen like THE MOST COMMUNIST ass practices ever engaged in like super duper conservative companies, because its the only practical solution at the time....  v. If they tried to use their "upper ideology" to solve those local problems, it would get smashed because it seems insane.

Its state level foreign threats that you might have to contend with on a computer. And trying to make it safe for whatever your personal desire is, would wreck the economy... so make due

[Stray Electron]

when is the last time a republican gave anyone a free lunch??

charity?

   I don't know what your point is supposed to be here but the veterans group that I'm in gives out free lunches about 6 times every month to anyone that comes in and almost all of the members in it are Republicans so FY!