Author Topic: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts  (Read 1219192 times)

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Offline gordan

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #475 on: July 25, 2013, 05:37:04 pm »
K6000 looks pretty sweet, but the press release says 2880 cores. Titan only has 2688. Modding it might not work. It has been reported before that modifying a 144-shader GTS450 into a Quadro 2000 doesn't work, while I have successfully modified 192 shader versions into Quadro 2000s, which implies you have to have at least as many shaders and memory controllers for the modification to work.

Also the K series seems to not be supported for MultiOS VGA passthrough virtualization, and there is nothing listed in the press release about this being available on the K6000. Since one of the main benefits of modifying a GeForce into a Quadro is precisely for enabling VGA passthrough, the benefits from a Titan->K6000 mod seem much slimmer even if it does work.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 06:00:31 pm by gordan »
 

Offline Jager

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #476 on: July 25, 2013, 07:16:50 pm »
K6000 looks pretty sweet, but the press release says 2880 cores. Titan only has 2688. Modding it might not work. It has been reported before that modifying a 144-shader GTS450 into a Quadro 2000 doesn't work, while I have successfully modified 192 shader versions into Quadro 2000s, which implies you have to have at least as many shaders and memory controllers for the modification to work.

Also the K series seems to not be supported for MultiOS VGA passthrough virtualization, and there is nothing listed in the press release about this being available on the K6000. Since one of the main benefits of modifying a GeForce into a Quadro is precisely for enabling VGA passthrough, the benefits from a Titan->K6000 mod seem much slimmer even if it does work.

GTX 670 to "K5000" seems to work so maybe this is doable.
 

Offline Soulnight

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #477 on: July 25, 2013, 07:19:49 pm »
K6000 looks pretty sweet, but the press release says 2880 cores. Titan only has 2688. Modding it might not work. It has been reported before that modifying a 144-shader GTS450 into a Quadro 2000 doesn't work, while I have successfully modified 192 shader versions into Quadro 2000s, which implies you have to have at least as many shaders and memory controllers for the modification to work.

Also the K series seems to not be supported for MultiOS VGA passthrough virtualization, and there is nothing listed in the press release about this being available on the K6000. Since one of the main benefits of modifying a GeForce into a Quadro is precisely for enabling VGA passthrough, the benefits from a Titan->K6000 mod seem much slimmer even if it does work.

GTX 670 to "K5000" seems to work so maybe this is doable.

What is exactly your GTX 670? Has someone already modded exactly your model or do you hope you will find which resistors you need to modify?
 

Offline Jager

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #478 on: July 25, 2013, 07:38:01 pm »
K6000 looks pretty sweet, but the press release says 2880 cores. Titan only has 2688. Modding it might not work. It has been reported before that modifying a 144-shader GTS450 into a Quadro 2000 doesn't work, while I have successfully modified 192 shader versions into Quadro 2000s, which implies you have to have at least as many shaders and memory controllers for the modification to work.

Also the K series seems to not be supported for MultiOS VGA passthrough virtualization, and there is nothing listed in the press release about this being available on the K6000. Since one of the main benefits of modifying a GeForce into a Quadro is precisely for enabling VGA passthrough, the benefits from a Titan->K6000 mod seem much slimmer even if it does work.

GTX 670 to "K5000" seems to work so maybe this is doable.

What is exactly your GTX 670? Has someone already modded exactly your model or do you hope you will find which resistors you need to modify?

I have reference design 670. Same pcb as K5000 have. My resistors arrived too and will do some soldering tomorrow or day after.
 

Offline Soulnight

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #479 on: July 25, 2013, 07:51:23 pm »
K6000 looks pretty sweet, but the press release says 2880 cores. Titan only has 2688. Modding it might not work. It has been reported before that modifying a 144-shader GTS450 into a Quadro 2000 doesn't work, while I have successfully modified 192 shader versions into Quadro 2000s, which implies you have to have at least as many shaders and memory controllers for the modification to work.

Also the K series seems to not be supported for MultiOS VGA passthrough virtualization, and there is nothing listed in the press release about this being available on the K6000. Since one of the main benefits of modifying a GeForce into a Quadro is precisely for enabling VGA passthrough, the benefits from a Titan->K6000 mod seem much slimmer even if it does work.

GTX 670 to "K5000" seems to work so maybe this is doable.

What is exactly your GTX 670? Has someone already modded exactly your model or do you hope you will find which resistors you need to modify?

I have reference design 670. Same pcb as K5000 have. My resistors arrived too and will do some soldering tomorrow or day after.

You mean today!!!  :clap: And then you buy a gtx 780, you mod it, and you tell us how to do it. And then I follow your steps :)  ::)
 

Offline Jager

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #480 on: July 25, 2013, 09:00:41 pm »
You mean today!!!  :clap: And then you buy a gtx 780, you mod it, and you tell us how to do it. And then I follow your steps :)  ::)

I will try 670 to "k5000" without failing first. "K5000" SLI is main target at the moment but i think it will never work without certificated workstation. Maybe someone do HyperSLI for quadro some day but i think it's not going to happen. I wish i had skill's to find out if 780 to K6000 is even possible :)
 

Offline Soulnight

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #481 on: July 25, 2013, 10:47:10 pm »
You mean today!!!  :clap: And then you buy a gtx 780, you mod it, and you tell us how to do it. And then I follow your steps :)  ::)

I will try 670 to "k5000" without failing first. "K5000" SLI is main target at the moment but i think it will never work without certificated workstation. Maybe someone do HyperSLI for quadro some day but i think it's not going to happen. I wish i had skill's to find out if 780 to K6000 is even possible :)

And where are all the skilled people of this forum? All in vacations? Or did nvidia have them assassinate?  :wtf:
 

Offline gamezr2ez

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #482 on: July 25, 2013, 11:22:21 pm »
And where are all the skilled people of this forum? All in vacations? Or did nvidia have them assassinate?  :wtf:

This is an Electronics board and there hasn't been any real electronics talk in the past 10 pages or more. Probably why this got moved to general chat. And while some cards may be able to have the straps identified based on the similarity to another confirmed card, to my knowledge no one here has a 780 to find the correct resistors to begin with.
 

Offline Jager

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #483 on: July 26, 2013, 06:10:09 am »
Well i managed to order capacitors instead of resistors :palm:  |O Need to find 40K somewhere, 15K i all ready have...

PS.Link i posted earlier was wrong, edited it.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 06:16:59 am by Jager »
 

Offline Soulnight

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #484 on: July 26, 2013, 07:45:56 am »
Well i managed to order capacitors instead of resistors :palm:  |O Need to find 40K somewhere, 15K i all ready have...

PS.Link i posted earlier was wrong, edited it.

Oh no!  :palm: You should go shopping in town today. It must not be so hard to find a small electronic store with such resistors.
 

Offline gordan

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #485 on: July 26, 2013, 07:48:53 am »
I'm pretty sure 15K is all you actually need. Modify the 3rd nibble to change the ID from 0x1189 to 0x11A9. From there on you can use the 5 bits of the soft strap to switch between K5000 or GTX680M (which has the same spec as GTX670). It's what I'll be doing to my GTX680 this weekend. Make the hard-strap ID 0x11A0 (GTX680M) instead of 0x1180 (GTX680) by changing only the 3rd nibble resistor. Then from that I can soft-mod to GTX680MX (0x11A3, same spec as GTX680) for non-Quadro uses or a Grid K2 (0x11BF) for virtualization.

You may find it preferable to just strip out all the UEFI crap out while you're BIOS hacking. I keep meaning to write up a BIOS modding guide for hacking most things since the 4xx series onward, but I've not had the time to do it in the past month. :(
 

Offline Soulnight

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #486 on: July 26, 2013, 08:01:35 am »
I'm pretty sure 15K is all you actually need. Modify the 3rd nibble to change the ID from 0x1189 to 0x11A9. From there on you can use the 5 bits of the soft strap to switch between K5000 or GTX680M (which has the same spec as GTX670). It's what I'll be doing to my GTX680 this weekend. Make the hard-strap ID 0x11A0 (GTX680M) instead of 0x1180 (GTX680) by changing only the 3rd nibble resistor. Then from that I can soft-mod to GTX680MX (0x11A3, same spec as GTX680) for non-Quadro uses or a Grid K2 (0x11BF) for virtualization.

You may find it preferable to just strip out all the UEFI crap out while you're BIOS hacking. I keep meaning to write up a BIOS modding guide for hacking most things since the 4xx series onward, but I've not had the time to do it in the past month. :(

I was wrong... There is still an expert among us!  :-+

And would you be so nice to try for us (with for example 2 screens instead of a dual projector stack) if you can activate 3D vision with a quadro card when you already have activated the option: passive stereo?

In the help of nvidia, I understand it is possible but I can't be sure until someone has tried it out:
http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3012/~/how-to-configure-passive-or-dual-pipe-stereo-with-quadro-cards-in-windows-7

You don't need an 3D vision emitter to activate 3D vision since there is an emulator for this:
http://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=997

Thank you a lot! You would be the first on earth to answer this "simple" question ! 8) :clap:
 

Offline Soulnight

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GTX 670 into quadro K5000 mod: complicated?
« Reply #487 on: July 26, 2013, 12:32:16 pm »
I can confirm the mod done by blanka.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg210798/#msg210798
But I pimped it a little bit.

670GTX to K5000 works!

R4 on the front side.
R1, R2, R3 on the bottom side.

K5000 works absolutely stable for me, but has no performance increase in SPECviewperf. I tested with few different Quadro drivers.

Summary
GPU Name         R1 / 0-7 4th byte        R2 / 8-f 4th byte   R3/ 3th (high)   R4 / 3th (low)
GTX 660Ti          20K                            None                       None             25k
GTX 670            None                           10K                        None              25k
tesla k10           none                            40K                         None            25k
Quadro k5000    none                            15k                          40K            none
grid k2              none                            40K                          40K            none

I flashed it (EVGA 670GTX 2GB 915MHz) with the K5000 bios from techpowerup.
"nvflash.exe -4 -5 -6 K5000.rom" had to be used because of different subsystem and board id.

It started with minor pixel errors but booted into win7.
After driver installation and reboot win7 didn't start anymore.
Flashing it back worked without problems.

It's me or the mod made by blanka seemed to be a lot more complicated? Do you need a cable like blanka did? Blanka also said you needed to put R3 manually since there was no place for it but shlomo.m didn't seem to have this problem.

Here the link to the picture of shlomo.m:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg217534/#msg217534

Here the link for blanka mod with pictures as well:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg210798/#msg210798

What do you think?

ps: I would like to buy a gtx 670 instead of a gtx 680 because the performances are about the same even with 3D vision and the gtx 670 costs 100€ less! In germany, the GTX 670 is selling for 260€! What model should I take?
What was exactly the model of shlomo.m: EVGA 670GTX 2GB 915MHz  ???

Thank you!


« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 12:36:00 pm by Soulnight »
 

Offline Jager

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Re: GTX 670 into quadro K5000 mod: complicated?
« Reply #488 on: July 26, 2013, 12:56:18 pm »

It's me or the mod made by blanka seemed to be a lot more complicated? Do you need a cable like blanka did? Blanka also said you needed to put R3 manually since there was no place for it but shlomo.m didn't seem to have this problem.

Here the link to the picture of shlomo.m:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg217534/#msg217534

Here the link for blanka mod with pictures as well:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg210798/#msg210798

What do you think?

ps: I would like to buy a gtx 670 instead of a gtx 680 because the performances are about the same even with 3D vision and the gtx 670 costs 100€ less! In germany, the GTX 670 is selling for 260€! What model should I take?
What was exactly the model of shlomo.m: EVGA 670GTX 2GB 915MHz  ???

Thank you!

I'm doing it like shlomo.m did. There is reference design PCB's, custom PCB's and those that use 680 PCB. So i think ref/680 PCB is safe bet.
 

Offline Soulnight

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #489 on: July 26, 2013, 01:10:07 pm »
Is it going well?
 

Offline gordan

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #490 on: July 29, 2013, 07:56:37 am »
OK, so I finally took a soldering iron to my GTX680 - and found that I changed the wrong resistor.  :palm:
Which made me re-read these posts:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg202901/#msg202901
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg209227/#msg209227
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg207550/#msg207550

It looks like there is an inconsistency in the findings, or at least an inconsistency in the way the ID numbers are set. Specifically, for the 4th nibble, the translation as per the first post works:

4th nibble, Resistor 2
5K   = 0
10K = 1
15K = 2
20K = 3
25K = 4
30K = 5
35K = 6
40K = 7

4th nibble, Resistor 3
5K   = 8
10K = 9
15K = A
20K = B
25K = C
30K = D
35K = E
40K = F

That's all well and good, but it seems like a waste of time since the bottom 5 bits (4th nibble plus the last bit of the 3rd nibble) can actually be changed by modifying the soft-strap. So the real juicy part is modifying the 3rd nibble since this is required to change the part of the ID that cannot be manipulated using only the soft strap. So you can go from GTX680 -> Tesla K10 by only changing the soft strap, but you cannot change to a K5000 or K2.

But - the 3rd nibble translation table does not appear to be the same (for resistors 1 and 2). Specifically, 3rd post linked above, from verybigbadboy, states:

Summary
GPU Name   Resistor 0 / 3rd byte   Resistor 1 / 3rd byte   Resistor 2 / 8-f 4th byte   Resistor 3 / 0-7 4th byte
GTX 660 ti   none   25k   none   20k
GTX 670   none   25k   10k   none
GTX 680   none   25k   none   5k
GTX 770   none   25k   none   25k
tesla k10   none   25k   40k   none
quadro k5000   40k   none   15k   none
grid k2   40k   none   40k   none

3rd symbol on K5000 and K2 is B; according to the original translation table, B should be:
Resistor 0: 20K resistor
Resistor 1: none

For the other cards listed the 3rd nibble is 8, which should be (5K, none).

Has anybody figured out what the full translation table here is?

I can sort of infer*:
25K=8
*30K=9
*35K=A
40K=B

but it is unclear why they are not set on the same resistor - and where exactly does the division fall between the two. I'm going to hazard a guess (and test when I get some 35K resistors) that it is resistor 1 that needs to be modified, but that is only a guess at the moment.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 03:07:29 pm by gordan »
 

Offline Jager

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #491 on: July 31, 2013, 10:20:57 am »
Ok, did some soldering. Goal is to mod GTX 670  to K5000. I have PNY ref desing GTX670.
Did it like  shlomo.m did here -->https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg217534/#msg217534

Used this table, but not able to find 40K so used 39K instead.

GPU Name         R1 / 0-7 4th byte        R2 / 8-f 4th byte   R3/ 3th (high)   R4 / 3th (low)
GTX 660Ti          20K                            None                       None             25k
GTX 670            None                           10K                        None              25k
tesla k10           none                            40K                         None            25k
Quadro k5000    none                            15k                          40K            none
grid k2              none                            40K                          40K            none

My GTX670 shows up as GRID K2, and removing R3/3th (high) it still show up as GRID K2. So 39K do not work after all? Will try 43K after i get those.

edit: none - none - none - none gives also GRID K2 ID...

edit:Got it working with potentiometer but there seem to be no benefits do this mod. No way to enable dual passive 3D after all. No mosaic either and it seems that this mod just allows to install Quadro drivers but to no benefit at all. Only quadro feature that worked was nView that you can "hack" without hard mod. Did try several drivers but no help. Mosaic utility reported no support...Maybe there is need for a BIOS mod to get things working....
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 09:25:47 pm by Jager »
 

Offline gordan

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #492 on: July 31, 2013, 11:40:33 pm »
Interesting, good work, Jager. I'm surprised that Mosaic doesn't work, it did on older cards. It looks like you only managed to achieve modifying it to Grid K2, though. The main advantage of modifying to a Grid card is VGA passthrough. It is quite plausible that Mosaic and 3D are not supported on the Grid series because they are specialist cards for virtualization. You might find it works when you change it to a K5000.

Note that if you have the card in Grid K2 mode (make sure it is reliably detected as such, I think you are supposed to have a 40K resistor rather than disconnected or things can become problematic), you can modify to K5000 using a BIOS only mod. Strip out the UEFI header (first 1024 bytes (everything up to 0x400, you'll find the AA55 header marking the beginning of the real BIOS. Then strip out the tail (UEFI crypto certs and a bunch of whitespace, trim it out, the end BIOS should be a little under 64KB). Then you can use most of the normal tools to edit it like before. Edit the device ID in the BIOS, re-calculate the checksum (using nibitor or write a program to do it for you), nvflash it to the card and then use nvflash to change the straps to match the device ID and you should be good to go.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 11:42:45 pm by gordan »
 

Offline Soulnight

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #493 on: August 01, 2013, 06:15:03 am »
Jager told me in MP that he succeeded in having the GTX 670 showing as K5000 but no success for mosaic...

@ Gordan: could you try to activate mosaic with a modded GTX 680?

Thank you a lot!  :-+
 

Offline Soulnight

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Offline Soulnight

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Re: Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #495 on: August 01, 2013, 07:04:26 am »
It should be noted that this mod was originally performed not to get a high performance Quadro or Telsa card, it was done to unlock additional features such as Mosaic support which does indeed work.

It should work Jager...
 

Offline Jager

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #496 on: August 01, 2013, 08:44:58 am »
Interesting, good work, Jager. I'm surprised that Mosaic doesn't work, it did on older cards. It looks like you only managed to achieve modifying it to Grid K2, though. The main advantage of modifying to a Grid card is VGA passthrough. It is quite plausible that Mosaic and 3D are not supported on the Grid series because they are specialist cards for virtualization. You might find it works when you change it to a K5000.

Note that if you have the card in Grid K2 mode (make sure it is reliably detected as such, I think you are supposed to have a 40K resistor rather than disconnected or things can become problematic), you can modify to K5000 using a BIOS only mod. Strip out the UEFI header (first 1024 bytes (everything up to 0x400, you'll find the AA55 header marking the beginning of the real BIOS. Then strip out the tail (UEFI crypto certs and a bunch of whitespace, trim it out, the end BIOS should be a little under 64KB). Then you can use most of the normal tools to edit it like before. Edit the device ID in the BIOS, re-calculate the checksum (using nibitor or write a program to do it for you), nvflash it to the card and then use nvflash to change the straps to match the device ID and you should be good to go.

Hi, i got it working as K5000 with using pot @40k.
Using mosaic utility did not allowed me to set 3840x1080. I did try it several drivers. There is no additional setup options in nVidia control panel so no "workstation" tree. I did try Mosaic utility but using "query lgpu" it shows supportmosaic=0 +some other information. Whenever i try to enable mosaic with "set rows=1 cols=2  out=0,0 out=0,1 res=3840,1080,60" it returns error flag not supported. Will do more testing later.
 

Offline Soulnight

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #497 on: August 01, 2013, 08:51:36 am »
Interesting, good work, Jager. I'm surprised that Mosaic doesn't work, it did on older cards. It looks like you only managed to achieve modifying it to Grid K2, though. The main advantage of modifying to a Grid card is VGA passthrough. It is quite plausible that Mosaic and 3D are not supported on the Grid series because they are specialist cards for virtualization. You might find it works when you change it to a K5000.

Note that if you have the card in Grid K2 mode (make sure it is reliably detected as such, I think you are supposed to have a 40K resistor rather than disconnected or things can become problematic), you can modify to K5000 using a BIOS only mod. Strip out the UEFI header (first 1024 bytes (everything up to 0x400, you'll find the AA55 header marking the beginning of the real BIOS. Then strip out the tail (UEFI crypto certs and a bunch of whitespace, trim it out, the end BIOS should be a little under 64KB). Then you can use most of the normal tools to edit it like before. Edit the device ID in the BIOS, re-calculate the checksum (using nibitor or write a program to do it for you), nvflash it to the card and then use nvflash to change the straps to match the device ID and you should be good to go.

Hi, i got it working as K5000 with using pot @40k.
Using mosaic utility did not allowed me to set 3840x1080. I did try it several drivers. There is no additional setup options in nVidia control panel so no "workstation" tree. I did try Mosaic utility but using "query lgpu" it shows supportmosaic=0 +some other information. Whenever i try to enable mosaic with "set rows=1 cols=2  out=0,0 out=0,1 res=3840,1080,60" it returns error flag not supported. Will do more testing later.

I know those are questions for dummies (sorry) but:
1) have you erased any trace of the previous geforce drivers?
2) Do you have 2 displays connected at the time you try to activate mosaic?
 

Offline Jager

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #498 on: August 01, 2013, 08:58:15 am »
@ Jager: here: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3012/~/how-to-configure-passive-or-dual-pipe-stereo-with-quadro-cards-in-windows-7.

They do not talk about mosaic, do they?  ???

There is no way to follow that guide because there is no options needed. I have exact same options as geforce drivers. Drivers do some additional checks and do not enable needed options for stereo. Mosaic could have been "workaround" and it would make possible to use tridef3D at least.
 

Offline Jager

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Re: [MOVED] Hacking NVidia Cards into their Professional Counterparts
« Reply #499 on: August 01, 2013, 09:01:08 am »
I know those are questions for dummies (sorry) but:
1) have you erased any trace of the previous geforce drivers?
2) Do you have 2 displays connected at the time you try to activate mosaic?

1.Yes
2.Of course, two identical projectors with dvi-to-hdmi and that should be supported.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 10:29:24 am by Jager »
 


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