Has Apple solved the iPhone-to-PC file transfer problem?

[Someone]

I believe there is only one answer here, user ignores instructions and complains it is somehow everyone else's fault.....

[Bud]

Then I realized I didn't try copying from the phone back to the laptop, so we reconnected them. The iPhone asked for permission to give the laptop access (like the first time), my son granted it in exactly the same way, and... nothing. We can see "Internal Storage" but nothing more is visible, including DCIM! Apparently you get one free connection. We tried and tried, changed the connection sequence, etc. but now cannot see anything but the top-level directory "Internal Storage" without any visible contents.

I believe you have to turn the phone on and unlock it, then connect the computer cable. Not just connect the cable. My iPhone 5 made DCIM picture folder accessible with just plugging the cable, but the new iPhone 13 does not work that way anymore and requires unlocking it first.

[Mechatrommer]

iirc samsung android also do the same thing. it has special SW that i need to install to make it readable/writable directly to/from PC through USB as mass storage, the hassle of installing that specialized SW (and slower throughput iirc) made me switch to OTG only... less hassle. i dont know if it has changed today, it was very long time ago.

[Karel]

Anyone knows how to copy ringtones saved on a (Linux) pc, to an iphone 12 mini?

I bought one a year ago and it's a big disappointment. If I knew it was so locked down,
I wouldn't have bought it.

[bw2341]

I haven't tried it myself but it looks like GarageBand can both import from Files and set a ringtone.

It looks like the design philosophy of iOS is that all apps are responsible for their own data. The Files app is intended to manipulate files in a more generic way. However, app developers have to design their app to interact with Files in order to use it.

In your case, Apple themselves did not create a way for Settings to pick a sound file from Files when choosing a ringtone. This is why an app such as GarageBand is needed.

As for getting files into the iDevice, these are the ones I know of:

Free:

• Set up a local webserver:
  From Safari you can download files and they will appear in Files in the Downloads directory. I have tested this myself.
  
• Set up a local Samba server:
  I don't use Linux regularly but I just tested this in Files on iOS 15 over Windows file sharing.

Paid:

• Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter
  https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter
  I have the simpler USB 2 version which I do not recommend. You can browse and copy files from a USB Mass Storage device or a USB PTP (Picture Transfer Protocol) camera.
• iCloud
  I have not tried it.

There are probably more methods, services or apps that may work that I am not aware of.

[IanB]

You can use iTunes on the desktop to add new ringtones to an iPhone. You can Google for the details. The ringtone has to be in the right format (AAC) and has to be the right length (less than 40 seconds). iTunes can change the encoding for you, but you need to use some other app to edit the length if it is too long.

If you are on Linux, you can apparently install the Windows version of iTunes using Wine. Again, Google for details.

[bw2341]

OK, to concretely answer this question I just connected my son's brand new iPhone 14 Pro Max to my laptop. Windows Explorer can see it, knows it's an "Apple iPhone", and displays the contents of the DCIM directory area. Tried to copy a file from the laptop to the iPhone... and it failed silently. 100% unsuccessful with no error messages. My son looked around on the phone to see if the file actually did copy over, but it was absent. We tried several directories from DCIM on down, and nothing worked.

Then I realized I didn't try copying from the phone back to the laptop, so we reconnected them. The iPhone asked for permission to give the laptop access (like the first time), my son granted it in exactly the same way, and... nothing. We can see "Internal Storage" but nothing more is visible, including DCIM! Apparently you get one free connection. We tried and tried, changed the connection sequence, etc. but now cannot see anything but the top-level directory "Internal Storage" without any visible contents.

I find this usage very unreliable on my iDevices. I have an iPhone 6 Plus (iOS 12) that I regularly connect to a Windows 10 computer that is not connected to the Internet. It never works on the first try! It reliably connects on the second try. Crazy.

While it connects via USB PTP, it seems to trigger Internet connected Windows machines to download some drivers. I just tried an iPhone 7 Plus (iOS 15) and it seemed to work correctly on the first try. Give it maybe 10 or 20 seconds before trying to browse.

If you do manage to make it work, you will see a DCIM directory with subdirectories like a typical digital camera. Even this seems unreliable. I occasionally backup the whole Camera Roll by copying all the directories in DCIM. It sometimes fails before completion.

Do NOT move a file (Cut and Paste) or delete a file on the iPhone unless you are absolutely sure you want it gone forever. It will be deleted correctly but you can't put anything onto the iPhone via USB PTP. If you do it by mistake, reimporting via other methods will probably make you jump though hoops if you want it appear in the original position on the Camera Roll.

The native file format for photos is HEIC instead of JPG. This has poorer support outside the Apple ecosystem and is another headache to deal with. There is a setting in Camera to use JPG natively, or a setting in Photos to convert on the fly when copying via USB.

[bw2341]

I forgot to mention that in Windows Explorer, dragging a file between drive letters is a file Copy operation. Dragging from one folder to another on the same drive is a Move operation.

However, the iPhone does not have a drive letter in Windows Explorer since it is using USB PTP. Therefore, dragging from an iPhone folder to another folder is considered a Move operation by Windows Explorer so it is very easy to do by accident.

[KE5FX]

Well, that's up to you. Here's an experiment I did. I have an Excel document on my Windows PC. It looks like the first attachment.

Wait, you can charge NiMH AA Eneloops at >1C?  That's good to know.  I've always been scared to go past 0.2C on those.

And yeah, not having a file system sucks.  Someone who tells you that you don't need a file system is really telling you, "I want to own your data.  All of it.  Forever.  I might let you move it off of my closed platform, and then again, I might not."

[IanB]

Wait, you can charge NiMH AA Eneloops at >1C?  That's good to know.  I've always been scared to go past 0.2C on those.

Note, the test was charging a 1900 mAh cell at 1600 mA, therefore 0.85C. I tried charging at 1C (2000 mA) using a bench power supply, but I did not like the result. The cell could not absorb the charge at that rate and started gassing out the vent. So I would recommend keeping charge rates to 0.5C or below. Even though the datasheet shows a 1C charge rate, I think that is very aggressive. Charging an AA Eneloop at 1000 mA works fine on a good charger.

And yeah, not having a file system sucks.  Someone who tells you that you don't need a file system is really telling you, "I want to own your data.  All of it.  Forever.  I might let you move it off of my closed platform, and then again, I might not."

Really, if you accept the modern approach of cloud storage, there are several advantages:
1. Your data is safe if you lose your phone or break it
2. Your data is in a filesystem accessible from anywhere and always synchronized
3. You can move things on and off the phone wirelessly
4. You can maximize phone capacity by deleting the local copy of infrequently used documents and apps
5. You can edit documents stored on your phone using your full size PC monitor and keyboard

I maximize the potential of this using both OneDrive and iCloud. Using OneDrive all the important folders on my desktop are shared to my phone for ready access. And I really like using the phone as a scanner to capture documents.

[KE5FX]

Note, the test was charging a 1900 mAh cell at 1600 mA, therefore 0.85C. I tried charging at 1C (2000 mA) using a bench power supply, but I did not like the result. The cell could not absorb the charge at that rate and started gassing out the vent. So I would recommend keeping charge rates to 0.5C or below. Even though the datasheet shows a 1C charge rate, I think that is very aggressive. Charging an AA Eneloop at 1000 mA works fine on a good charger.

I see, thanks.  The app manual for the Energizer NiMHs I usually use suggests 0.1C, and I've always felt vaguely guilty about cranking the supply up to 0.2C.  Which is why your graph example caught my eye.

Really, if you accept the modern approach of cloud storage, there are several advantages:
1. Your data is safe if you lose your phone or break it
2. Your data is in a filesystem accessible from anywhere and always synchronized
3. You can move things on and off the phone wirelessly
4. You can maximize phone capacity by deleting the local copy of infrequently used documents and apps
5. You can edit documents stored on your phone using your full size PC monitor and keyboard

I maximize the potential of this using both OneDrive and iCloud. Using OneDrive all the important folders on my desktop are shared to my phone for ready access. And I really like using the phone as a scanner to capture documents.

And then Elon Musk buys your cloud provider, and that social media post you made last month calling him a big poopyhead comes to his attention somehow, and suddenly the debate over who owns and maintains the file system becomes a lot less academic....

But yeah, using multiple providers goes a long way toward mitigating that risk.

[IDEngineer]

Relying on "the cloud" definitely has advantages, no question about that. Most of them are convenience but that's definitely worth something.

However, it comes at a price.

If your data is "out there on the Internet" and you don't have Internet access, then what? The easy answer is "I'll keep a copy on my local storage for offline work". That works fine if you're the only one accessing the cloud storage. But what if you're a member of a team? If you keep a local copy to work offline, what happens if someone else edits the file and then you come back to upload it? Who wins? Does this mean everyone must now use a formal revisioning system? Again, not fatal, but things to consider.

However, the biggest problem with "the cloud" is legal. Who owns your data? Who has legal access to it? Most importantly, what privacy expectations are realistic? Court cases (at least in the USA) have established that if you upload files to remote storage managed by a separate company, you have waived any expectation of privacy. It's like discussing a sensitive topic in a public place... you may think you're keeping your voice down but by being in public, you know or should have known that your conversation could be overheard.

There is a very good reason attorney firms still store their files on servers THEY own, in space THEY rent or own, managed by people THEY hire. The lawyers know the law and they know that to have a legal expectation of privacy they must own the equipment, control its location, and directly manage the people working on that equipment (even if they're consultants). I do a LOT of patent work and patent attorneys still have in-office racks of servers for exactly this reason. I'm thankfully ignorant of how criminal defense attorneys manage their data but since the laws don't discriminate based on the type of data I suspect they do exactly the same thing.

Maybe nothing you're working on is that sensitive. Everyone has to make that determination for themselves. But attorneys do not want to be found negligent about protecting the privacy rights of their, and their clients', files and data. So they spend the money. Each of us must consider our own situation and make our own decision, but for legal questions like this it's a good idea to watch what attorneys do with their own stuff.

[bw2341]

I forgot to describe a possible workflow in case you need to move to an iPhone to keep the peace with your family.

From Photos, it is easy to select a bunch of photos from the Camera Roll. When you tap the share sheet icon, Save to Files is available which will let you browse and save to an SMB share (Windows File Sharing) or a USB mass storage device (via the Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter). I've just tested this workflow myself.

This works in reverse as well. By browsing external sources in Files, you can select multiple images and Save Image which will put the photos on the Camera Roll.

However, for PDF documents, the built in tools are poor. The viewer in Files has minimal features. Books is mainly a storefront for Apple Books and only seems to add bookmarking as feature. Books can't browse Files directly and I was only able to send one PDF at a time from Files. Useless.

Many people are productive on iPhones and iPads but it does require dedication. You will need to explore the productivity apps available for your field of work to see if you can find a workflow that will work for you.

[BradC]

If you are on Linux, you can apparently install the Windows version of iTunes using Wine. Again, Google for details.

Another option : I run iTunes on a Windows VM (on Linux, on my MacBook Pro). I loved WINE (and contributed to it occasionally) but once virtualization became commodity it just lost its shine.

I'm one of those oddities that use Apple devices without any iCloud. Everything is managed locally by cable or local network. Nothing gets in my way and I can make them do everything I want them to do. I probably make life harder for myself, but then when things go wrnog I also know how to fix them.

[Halcyon]

Members of my family are migrating from Android to Apple phones and encouraging me to follow suit.

Is this the only reason you're considering changing? Peer pressure?

It seems like by changing over to a new platform, you're introducing issues for yourself that currently don't exist. Why fix what's not broken?

[IDEngineer]

I understand and agree with your point of view.

This isn't exactly peer pressure. My son, who is pursuing his EE degree at CalPoly, benefits from the Apple ecosystem because the systems there are Apple-centric. The workflow of receiving and submitting assignments, etc. is just more native with (for example) an iPad. That then integrates better with an iPhone, so the last time his (then Android) phone retired itself he replaced it with an iPhone. Next, my wife's phone decided it wanted to retire and my son - who does maintain a balanced view of the world - explained the pros and cons of Apple vs. Android to her. She decided to go with an iPhone.

That leaves me as the last holdout in the family. No, I don't have any problems I'm trying to solve and I'm perfectly comfortable being the odd man out with an Android that works just fine for me and my workflow. But the day will come when I need to replace my phone, and as others in this thread have noted there is value in having a single standard within an organization (even when that organization is a family).

Apparently I'm the only one in the family who uses their phone the way I do. As mentioned, I use it to take photos and videos of in-the-field operations which I then often need to transfer to my laptop for various reasons. I also transfer documentation such as PDF's and .DOC's to/from the phone (hey, I'm already carrying it, why not use it as a mass storage device?). Sometimes I can wait until I'm in cell range, but quite often I'm on a boat or ship or aircraft when I need to manipulate those files and I cannot rely on "the cloud" for connectivity between two devices that I'm literally holding in my hands right in front of me. Two devices that could, and should be able to, connect with a simple USB cable for totally autonomous operation.

Whether or not I move to an iPhone, as an Engineer it frustrates me no end that Apple hasn't figure out how incredibly inconvenient this artificial barrier is to folks who work outside a downtown core. Our house is on a lake, and we don't get very good reception there outdoors beyond the range of our picocell amplifier. These are homes that sell for seven digit sums yet the best of the two available wired ISP's yields 15Mbps down / 1.5Mbps up (I'm using that connection right now) and none of the wireless providers have decent signal strength for portable devices. Apple's entirely arbitrary choice to artificially handicap their products makes them a poor choice in this region of million dollar properties mostly populated by what I presume would be very juicy members of their target customer base.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, though, since it's taking the European Union to force Apple to use the industry standard connector on their devices. Seriously, Apple... you make great products. I admire almost everything you do. WTF is with making your stuff difficult to interact with industry standards? They're called "standards" for a reason.

Anyway, I'm just looking toward the future when I'll need one or more new devices. There's lots of value in having a common standard within the family. Just yesterday my son shared a high-res photo via iMessage and my wife got full resolution while I got a downsampled, pixelated substitute. Things like that make me WANT to use Apple, but then I need to transfer some files to my laptop and remember "You can't do this with Apple". Hence this thread, I was hoping Apple had fixed this, but so far our family's experiments have been failures thanks to Apple's continued attitude.

[BradC]

but then I need to transfer some files to my laptop and remember "You can't do this with Apple".

You can and I do, running MacOS, Windows or Linux without resorting to Wireless, Bluetooth or "Cloud". It's not difficult.

As a perverse example, I used my iPad an a Sandisk iXpand to ssh into a remote Linux machine, build a custom OpenWRT image, scp it to the iPad, copy it to the iXpand which I could then pop into the router, ssh in from the iPad to upgrade. Then download a copy of SysrescueCD onto the iPad, copy that to the iXpand, then ssh into the router to dd the image from the iXpand onto a standard USB to get my laptop to boot. I could have done the same with my laptop and a cable to the iPad rather than the iXpand, but I needed the USB to rescue the laptop which had a wiped boot sector.

I routinely store 10's of gigs of data on the iPad. Literally the *only* thing I don't do is try and use it as a very expensive USB stick to store random stuff on, because it's the wrong tool for the job. You need client software on the laptop to get files into and out of the application containers or a lightning to USB adapter, or a lightning to SD adapter or something like an iXpand. Direct iDevice to PC works on all 3 OS I use.

But hey, can't get files onto or off the iPad/iPhone.

If your only sticking point is being able to plug your phone into a random PC and use it as a very expensive USB stick, then stick with Android.

[IanB]

Also, the lack of USB C was not entirely Apple's fault. I believe that USB C was not available when Apple wanted to move to what is now the Lightning connector, so if they wanted to ship product they had to go to plan B. And once they had some products with Lightning it would start to be a compatibility problem if some products had Lightning and some had USB C. Nevertheless, that is the case today and some Apple products do already have USB C. The main advantage, and the reason Apple will go this way, is not the EU, but rather the much higher data speeds that USB C can do.

[rsjsouza]

People said I should run the experiment, with strong hints that it would work. I did so, and reported the result. I still don't care much either way, I just wish equipment was designed to be compatible for the ease of end users.

If your only sticking point is being able to plug your phone into a random PC and use it as a very expensive USB stick, then stick with Android.

Thanks IDEngineer for that experiment and for the subsequent comments of others such as BradC, which indicate that Apple is still on the same route as my experience years ago. So, still not for me. Fortunately I don't have a current pressure to make a change.

As for the user Someone, stop projecting your fanboyism unto others.

[CatalinaWOW]

If your only sticking point is being able to plug your phone into a random PC and use it as a very expensive USB stick, then stick with Android.

While pungeant this comment is just like those attacking taking pictures with a phone, or using the phone as a calculator or a spirit level.  In none of those cases is a phone the best tool for the job.  But is the tool most likely to be at hand.

More convenience for the file transfer function isn't a compelling selection criteria, but it is valid.

[BradC]

If your only sticking point is being able to plug your phone into a random PC and use it as a very expensive USB stick, then stick with Android.

While pungeant this comment is just like those attacking taking pictures with a phone, or using the phone as a calculator or a spirit level.  In none of those cases is a phone the best tool for the job.  But is the tool most likely to be at hand.

It's not an attack at all. Simply the facts. In those mentioned instances pretty much any phone will do what you want. Before they could do those things, you used a different device for each role. The Apple can't pretend to be a mass storage device. Use something else.

More convenience for the file transfer function isn't a compelling selection criteria, but it is valid.

I never said it wasn't valid. I said if it doesn't meet the needs of the OP then he should stick with Android. That's using the "selection criteria" to select an appropriate device.

No attack here. Just the facts ma'am.

[IDEngineer]

In those mentioned instances pretty much any phone will do what you want. Before they could do those things, you used a different device for each role. The Apple can't pretend to be a mass storage device. Use something else.

Exactly. Ultimately all of these devices are for convenience, right? Humanity survived without portable phones for a long time. Same with USB sticks and cameras. But the technology is available and each may as well optimize for his/her situation to take best advantage of it.

Example: I don't wear a watch anymore. There's a clock in the phone - why carry TWO timepieces?

I don't carry a USB stick most of the time, because the phone has tens of gigabytes of storage already available and a USB stick doesn't have a convenient integrated display.

I don't carry a still camera most of the time, because the phone already has one that is more than sufficient for 99% of the photos I need.

I don't carry a video camera most of the time, same reasons.

Long ago I used to carry a "Day-Timer" calendar. I don't need to anymore. Same reasons.

Modern cellphones have successfully integrated many of the tools we all use in our daily lives. Apple has some remarkably great examples. But they fail to have the same compatibility with the rest of the world when it comes to connectivity. For me, in my circumstances, that's a deal breaker. The baffling part is why Apple continues to do this when countless other companies prove it's not necessary. I don't even care that they use a non-standard connector (cables are small)... but until it's as easy to interconnect as literally every other brand of cellphone on the planet, it's going to continue to be a (sad) no.

[Someone]

People said I should run the experiment, with strong hints that it would work. I did so, and reported the result. I still don't care much either way, I just wish equipment was designed to be compatible for the ease of end users.

If your only sticking point is being able to plug your phone into a random PC and use it as a very expensive USB stick, then stick with Android.

Thanks IDEngineer for that experiment and for the subsequent comments of others such as BradC, which indicate that Apple is still on the same route as my experience years ago. So, still not for me. Fortunately I don't have a current pressure to make a change.

As for the user Someone, stop projecting your fanboyism unto others.

I'm here pointing out the repeated nonsense claims of "cant do XXX" which are completely incorrect. The short stupid comment is easier that the long and correct comment. Yet, it's still on the merry go round....

The baffling part is why Apple continues to do this when countless other companies prove it's not necessary. I don't even care that they use a non-standard connector (cables are small)... but until it's as easy to interconnect as literally every other brand of cellphone on the planet, it's going to continue to be a (sad) no.

As has been said many many many times just for you, that is entirely possible if you do any of the following:
a) use a 3rd party software (android file access on a Mac needs a utility installed, so that is equal in each direction)
b) accept the file sync instead of exposing a file system
c) drag/drop folders into the "files" filesystem (but not individual files beyond the root??)
d) accept the use of a network file share (can be a private/local network)
Any one of those will do exactly what you are asking, the files sit there in the "files" filesystem for you to arrange and play with all you want, and can be sent out into other applications as needed.

Your bolded part is pretty obnoxious, since the world of cellphones is wider than android vs apple, so no, literally every other cellphone is a wild exaggeration. But do keep coming back with more misinformation that claims it is entirely impossible (yet without stating your other "requirements").

[BradC]

(sad)

Why would you attach emotion to the selection of a phone? It doesn't do the one thing you highly value as important. Pick one that does and move on.

[Mechatrommer]

(sad)

Why would you attach emotion to the selection of a phone? It doesn't do the one thing you highly value as important. Pick one that does and move on.

i can feel the OP's conflict... we the more technical (manual car) type prone guys can live with whatever that works for us (android) but families (usually the selfie/social prone people) will prefer iphone, but then there introduced another problem.. compatibility among family members, they cant switch/share pictures/videos/data as easily as before. this will sometime needs the technical/it/manual car guy in the family to do heavier lifting of learning/googling a system he is not interested at to make the compatibility problem solved, just to make the "automatic car" people in the family happy. cheers, ymmv.