Hell freezes over...

[Karel]

https://buildazure.com/microsoft-linux-conference-wslconf-coming-march-2020/

http://techrights.org/2019/09/14/proprietary-software-giants-as-friends/

[ledtester]

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3438856/call-me-crazy-but-windows-11-could-run-on-linux.html

[SiliconWizard]

Just. LOL.

[FreddieChopin]

Oh you newb, embrace, extend, and extinguish is still a thing.

[Red Squirrel]

Oh you newb, embrace, extend, and extinguish is still a thing.

That's always what I wonder when it comes to MS's embracing of Linux...  I hope it's not the case though.   All they really need to do is get exclusive rights to it and then start suing all the other distros.  They have enough power to do that if they wanted to.  They just need to lobby the government to make IP law changes that make it possible.

[blacksheeplogic]

I feel windows is mainly plagued by 'windows haters' these days. Windows is actually for most users quite stable and efficient to work with. Will a Linux version make everything better, or will in introduce a lot of issues into the desktop environment I don't know, however, my Linux systems are a lot less stable and require more maintenance than my windows systems and if the user base on Linux grows so will the malware base for Linux grow.

If I had my choice of a single OS it would be AIX (stable with very little maintenance needed) but AIX lacks the software support and it's Power only. OSX was OK until Apple decides to screw with it every release and there lock in's are far worse than windows but if Windows goes Linux, Apple is probably a good indicator of how open that will end up being.

My decision on OS basically comes down to what I need on the box. I really don't care what it's called.

 

[SiliconWizard]

That's always what I wonder when it comes to MS's embracing of Linux...  I hope it's not the case though.   All they really need to do is get exclusive rights to it and then start suing all the other distros.  They have enough power to do that if they wanted to.  They just need to lobby the government to make IP law changes that make it possible.

They can't do anything against open-source licenses. That would almost imply launching a war worldwide. You have no idea about the implications.

And that said, we'll have to define what Linux IS exactly. Is that just the Linux kernel? (I think the kernel is all we could formally call Linux actually?)
The kernel itself  - there's no way MS can ever lobby anyone to get rights on that. No f*cking way. Again if they try, they'll be up against something big.

Now they could of course use the Linux kernel, and design a whole OS around it as they see fit. A bit like Google did. Is that Linux? The kernel is. The OS, we can't call it that, and Android is pretty different from any Linux distro...

If they used the Linux kernel, they would have to add tainted modules all over the place to pull off the nasty tricks they do with Windows, and some would still be pretty tough to implement without modifying the kernel itself, which would have to be shared. No way. And anyway, would that still be a "Linux" system? Even less so than Android.

They are just playing with words here, and the hype. Maybe also trying to make all the less savvy crowd hear "Linux" from their own mouths, in hopes the crowd won't be tempted to go see elsewhere. Just occupy the field, you know. "Oh you guys are comtemplating switching to Linux? That's not very nice. But look, we'll give you Linux!"

[Halcyon]

I feel windows is mainly plagued by 'windows haters' these days. Windows is actually for most users quite stable and efficient to work with.

A large part of the problem is that Windows 8 / 10 is really easy to hate and this is coming from a veteran of Windows. It's honestly the most retarded version of Windows I have *ever* used.

Over the past 12 months, I've been learning Linux and have switched to it as my daily driver just so I don't have to use Windows 10. At work, I use expensive HP Workstations and at times Windows 10 still runs like crap or glitches out for no apparent reason. Even on my less powerful (Intel i5 based PC), Windows 7 was more responsive and stable with half the amount of RAM.

[DimitriP]

Windows is actually for most users quite stable and efficient to work with.

Eeeek...you can say that about al"most" any version of windows and even DOS for that matter!!

[blacksheeplogic]

Windows is actually for most users quite stable and efficient to work with.

Eeeek...you can say that about al"most" any version of windows and even DOS for that matter!!

What is your point?

[bsfeechannel]

Windows: your next Linux distro.

[edy]

Didn't Apple Mac OS derive out of BSD unix because it was one of the few that was not originally open sourced and therefore derivatives did not have to keep open? Apple chose BSD and that way could keep things proprietary. Maybe Microsoft is looking to find some Linux code base that they can build on but other than a small core, they can keep the rest of the system proprietary. Google decided to open up Android but they don't do this with every release I don't think.

I highly doubt that Microsoft is out to replace the desktop with Linux. I think they are recognizing the efficiency when it comes to cloud services and perhaps building a framework on top for their server and cloud businesses. It will be a long time or never that I expect to see Microsoft release a "Linux" that general consumers get bundled with their PC's.... the consumer adoption of Linux is laughable, it is no threat to Microsoft. They have no reason to bother to even innovate. People will still buy the same crap over and over, they don't know better. But business cloud server where Linux makes up a huge share... that's what they are after.

[Sal Ammoniac]

Didn't Apple Mac OS derive out of BSD unix because it was one of the few that was not originally open sourced and therefore derivatives did not have to keep open? Apple chose BSD and that way could keep things proprietary.

MacOS X is a derivative of NeXTSTEP, which is a derivative of Mach/BSD. BSD wasn't chosen so Apple could keep things proprietary.

But business cloud server where Linux makes up a huge share... that's what they are after.

Linux has a huge share here because of licensing costs, not technical merit. Can you imagine how much companies like Google, Facebook, and Amazon would have to pay Microsoft in licensing fees if they used Windows Server instead of Linux?

[Monkeh]

But business cloud server where Linux makes up a huge share... that's what they are after.

Linux has a huge share here because of licensing costs, not technical merit. Can you imagine how much companies like Google, Facebook, and Amazon would have to pay Microsoft in licensing fees if they used Windows Server instead of Linux?

I can imagine they'd cut a very fine deal if they believed Windows had technical merit for their application..

[Red Squirrel]

To be fair, modern versions of windows actually are quite stable.  Ex: Windows 7 and up.  The issue is 8 and 10 are not exactly fun to use due to the horrid interface. Especially 8.  That is an abomination.

If MS truly wants to embrace Linux they should contribute to projects like Wine and Mono or maybe make a "lite" version of Windows without all the fluff that is Linux based but can run Windows apps with a Linux GUI like KDE.

[techman-001]

I feel windows is mainly plagued by 'windows haters' these days.

Imagine that, how unreasonable! I mean what did Microsoft *ever* do to deserve such hatred ?

Actually I can think of a few reasons :-
"Dos isn't done until Lotus won't run"
Stealing the 'doublespace' drive compression code
Breaking the Sherman Antitrust Law
Stealing the Citrix Winframe code
Stacking ECMA against Open Office
Killing Linux 'netbooks' by forcing manufacturers to limit them to 2GB Ram and small HDD size
Forcing Linux out of the Retail Channels by threatening to cancel the "Windows discount" of retailers who sold any Linux Pc's or Laptops, and threatening to sue them for breach of contract for 'damaging the Windows brand'
Claiming that Linux is a 'virus'
Raping Nokia

Just to name a few ...

[james_s]

Linux has a huge share here because of licensing costs, not technical merit. Can you imagine how much companies like Google, Facebook, and Amazon would have to pay Microsoft in licensing fees if they used Windows Server instead of Linux?

Google, Amazon and Facebook are some of the wealthiest companies in the world, they could very easily afford to use Windows if they wanted to but why would they want to get locked into a proprietary OS? IIRC Google long ago banned Windows from their internal network.

Even when price is no object you'd be hard pressed to find many people at the big tech companies who would choose Windows. For web servers especially, Linux is the gold standard.

[DimitriP]

I feel windows is mainly plagued by 'windows haters' these days.

Imagine that, how unreasonable! I mean what did Microsoft *ever* do to deserve such hatred ?

Actually I can think of a few reasons :-
"Dos isn't done until Lotus won't run"
Stealing the 'doublespace' drive compression code
Breaking the Sherman Antitrust Law
Stealing the Citrix Winframe code
Stacking ECMA against Open Office
Killing Linux 'netbooks' by forcing manufacturers to limit them to 2GB Ram and small HDD size
Forcing Linux out of the Retail Channels by threatening to cancel the "Windows discount" of retailers who sold any Linux Pc's or Laptops, and threatening to sue them for breach of contract for 'damaging the Windows brand'
Claiming that Linux is a 'virus'
Raping Nokia

Just to name a few ...

Wait a minute....the statement was about "these days"    

[techman-001]

I feel windows is mainly plagued by 'windows haters' these days.

Imagine that, how unreasonable! I mean what did Microsoft *ever* do to deserve such hatred ?

Actually I can think of a few reasons :-
"Dos isn't done until Lotus won't run"
Stealing the 'doublespace' drive compression code
Breaking the Sherman Antitrust Law
Stealing the Citrix Winframe code
Stacking ECMA against Open Office
Killing Linux 'netbooks' by forcing manufacturers to limit them to 2GB Ram and small HDD size
Forcing Linux out of the Retail Channels by threatening to cancel the "Windows discount" of retailers who sold any Linux Pc's or Laptops, and threatening to sue them for breach of contract for 'damaging the Windows brand'
Claiming that Linux is a 'virus'
Raping Nokia

Just to name a few ...

Wait a minute....the statement was about "these days"

Do you think the people that learned to hate Microsoft over the last 38 years have changed their minds or got amnesia ?

They're still alive, they told their kids about Microsoft, their kids will do the same with their kids.

[bsfeechannel]

I highly doubt that Microsoft is out to replace the desktop with Linux. I think they are recognizing the efficiency when it comes to cloud services and perhaps building a framework on top for their server and cloud businesses. It will be a long time or never that I expect to see Microsoft release a "Linux" that general consumers get bundled with their PC's.... the consumer adoption of Linux is laughable, it is no threat to Microsoft. They have no reason to bother to even innovate. People will still buy the same crap over and over, they don't know better. But business cloud server where Linux makes up a huge share... that's what they are after.

Or they can do what Google have done with Linux.

[Karel]

"What do you anticipate Microsoft will do next?"

Microsoft will switch to Linux and keep selling their software on top of Linux. And it will cost the Windows users as
much as before.
At the same time will the Linux community get face-stomped by hordes of Windows users, all trying to learn everything
there is to learn about Linux and in record-breaking time.
Some long-time Linux supporters will switch to Microsoft in a heart beat like cold-hearted back-stabbers, while others die
the slow death of the White Knight in the most epic drama the Linux community has ever seen, before the Linux
community itself disappears and we will all have turned into "the new Windows user".

Once it's all done and over, and Microsoft has taken over Linux with its hordes of Windows users, will you either be the
new slave of the Microsoft empire or you will have found refuge under a tiny bridge, just next to the one where all the
FreeBSD trolls live, and where you'll then be telling tales of Linux's past.

[Zbig]

"What do you anticipate Microsoft will do next?"

Microsoft will switch to Linux and keep selling their software on top of Linux. And it will cost the Windows users as
much as before.
At the same time will the Linux community get face-stomped by hordes of Windows users, all trying to learn everything
there is to learn about Linux and in record-breaking time.
Some long-time Linux supporters will switch to Microsoft in a heart beat like cold-hearted back-stabbers, while others die
the slow death of the White Knight in the most epic drama the Linux community has ever seen, before the Linux
community itself disappears and we will all have turned into "the new Windows user".

Once it's all done and over, and Microsoft has taken over Linux with its hordes of Windows users, will you either be the
new slave of the Microsoft empire or you will have found refuge under a tiny bridge, just next to the one where all the
FreeBSD trolls live, and where you'll then be telling tales of Linux's past.

Come on, Karlík, tell us how you really feel

[DimitriP]

Do you think the people that learned to hate Microsoft over the last 38 years have changed their minds or got amnesia ?

They're still alive, they told their kids about Microsoft, their kids will do the same with their kids.

Just wanted to make sure  we establish how many "these days" are;  approximately 13870

[Yansi]

To be fair, modern versions of windows actually are quite stable.  Ex: Windows 7 and up.  The issue is 8 and 10 are not exactly fun to use due to the horrid interface. Especially 8.  That is an abomination.

If MS truly wants to embrace Linux they should contribute to projects like Wine and Mono or maybe make a "lite" version of Windows without all the fluff that is Linux based but can run Windows apps with a Linux GUI like KDE.

Yeah, Win 10 are so stable that my brand new laptop I got in my new workplace with a new clean install already throws lovely errors after a month of using.  Services crashing here and there,  failed background updates that trashed applications, even boot error occasionally showed up.

Last windows I will personally use is W7.  Then I switch likely for something else.  The UI of W10 is painful to use, extreme crap with cheap bugs all over it.

If using two staggered monitors next to each other, you can't even move mouse from one to the other going around the edge of one, because they have incorrectly programmed the conditions for checking monitor borders.  etc....

[Nominal Animal]

Linux has a huge share here because of licensing costs, not technical merit.

High-performance computing cluster ranks shows that is not true.

The only way Microsoft got to the top 500 list a few years back, was by using double the amount of hardware computation capability to other clusters with similar performance.  Windows clusters just can't compete on technical merit; there is too much overhead, even when Microsoft subsidizes all software costs and some of the hardware costs (as it did with those short-lived attempts).

So, it is definitely technical merit, not licensing costs.